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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / March 2006

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SVT/GT500 News

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NoOption5L@aol.com - 21 Mar 2006 02:49 GMT
Beginning with this summer's introduction of the 2007 Shelby GT500, the
Ford brand will let all its dealers sell Special Vehicle Team vehicles.

Now, only a limited number of SVT-certified dealers can sell the
high-performance vehicles.

The change could help Ford sell more high-performance cars and trucks.
But some SVT dealers are crying foul.

Meanwhile, after a two-year product drought for the SVT brand, its
future is up in the air, sources say. It is not clear what, if any,
products are slated for SVT beyond the GT500, and Ford has declined to
talk about its plans.

Ford has about 600 full-line SVT dealerships; 700 others were certified
for the now-discontinued SVT Focus. Beginning with the GT500, Ford will
no longer limit the number of available certifications. Certification
requirements will be different for each product. The Ford brand had
3,777 U.S. dealerships on Jan. 1.

"This will further strengthen the Ford brand by providing us with a
greater opportunity to drive showroom traffic," wrote Darryl Hazel,
president of Ford's customer service division, in an e-mail to dealers.

Ford says it's not backing away from performance products. Some sources
say Ford is folding the SVT marketing team into the regular Ford brand
team. Some also expect SVT's engineering team may be diluted or tied
more closely to Ford's racing efforts.

That would be a remarkable about-face for SVT vehicles, which went on
sale in 1992. Just a year ago, Ford's product chief, Phil Martens, said
SVT was bigger and better-funded than ever before. Martens, who has
since left Ford, said SVT would eventually have up to five products.
Ford canceled the Adrenalin as part of its Way Forward turnaround plan.
Product canceled

One of the new products was to be the Ford Sport Trac Adrenalin in
2007. But Ford canceled the Adrenalin as part of its Way Forward
turnaround plan. Ford previously dropped plans for a next-generation
F-150 Lightning.

SVT products typically sell for higher profits and at lower volumes -
for instance, an average 7,260 units per model year for past SVT
Mustangs. Ford has sold 144,994 SVT vehicles since 1992.

Ford spokeswoman Whitney Drake said the SVT organization is working on
"several future projects that we aren't ready to talk about just yet."
She wouldn't say whether the SVT name will be carried forward beyond
the GT500.

The SVT name already is diminished on the GT500, where the logo appears
on the door sills. SVT is not included in the GT500 nameplate.

Ford is committed to performance, Drake said. Hau Thai-Tang, who had
been a protege of Martens, remains director of advanced product
creation and SVT.

Even though SVT dealers will get extra allocation of the GT500, some
are upset to lose exclusive access to the high-margin products.

"It's a terrible mistake," said Beau Boeckmann, vice president of
Galpin Motors Inc. in North Hills, Calif., which has had a full-line
SVT business.

"You had a group that was very focused. They really understood the
value of the product."

Making that product available to all dealers will dilute the power of
the SVT brand, Boeckmann said. He cited the SVT Focus, sold from 2001
to 2004, as an example. When it was made available to an extra 700
dealers, "people sold it off like it was just a common Focus."

But another full-line SVT dealer said Ford's move might boost the
automaker's overall performance business, increase volume and help the
brand. Tom Addis, chairman of the Ford national dealer council, said
opening SVT up to all dealers should allow Ford to market the products
better.

Addis, dealer principal at Lake City Ford in Couer d'Alene, Idaho,
said, "The concern has always been: If you have a product that most
dealers can't sell, you're limited in how you can advertise it
nationally."

Patrick
351CJ - 21 Mar 2006 04:26 GMT
> Beginning with this summer's introduction of the 2007 Shelby GT500, the
> Ford brand will let all its dealers sell Special Vehicle Team vehicles.
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
>
> Patrick

Patrick, do you have a link for this?
Backyard Mechanic - 21 Mar 2006 04:53 GMT
> Patrick, do you have a link for this?

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
AID=/20060320/FREE/60320003/1041

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

351CJ - 21 Mar 2006 05:14 GMT
>> Patrick, do you have a link for this?
>
> http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
> AID=/20060320/FREE/60320003/1041

Thanks
Brent P - 21 Mar 2006 05:54 GMT
> Beginning with this summer's introduction of the 2007 Shelby GT500, the
> Ford brand will let all its dealers sell Special Vehicle Team vehicles.
>
> Now, only a limited number of SVT-certified dealers can sell the
> high-performance vehicles.

I don't know about this. On one hand it's good that special dealers won't
be able to corner the market, on the other hand it means each dealer will
likely have less allotment in number of cars meaning they'll be more
inclined to soak buyers.
Backyard Mechanic - 21 Mar 2006 11:49 GMT
> In article <1142905760.417826.124780@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
> NoOption5L@aol.com wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> dealer will likely have less allotment in number of cars meaning
> they'll be more inclined to soak buyers.

Reading between the lines, they still have to "certify".

That implies a certain level of training and support overhead (and more
income for Ford Corp)

So dont expect every TV saturating, or small town, dealer to handle them.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Brian Bunin - 24 Mar 2006 23:00 GMT
>> Beginning with this summer's introduction of the 2007 Shelby GT500, the
>> Ford brand will let all its dealers sell Special Vehicle Team vehicles.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>likely have less allotment in number of cars meaning they'll be more
>inclined to soak buyers.

http://cgi.ebay.
com/ebaymotors/Ford-SVT-2007-Ford-Shelby-Cobra-GT500-SVT-NO-RESERVE-GT-500_W0Q
QitemZ4622917390QQcategoryZ6057QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
DC Hunt - 21 Mar 2006 18:19 GMT
Unfortunately with the limited availability and increased distribution each
dealer is going to try and reap as much profit as possible (as can be see on
ebay and other places where the GT500's are getting bids of 25K and up over
the as yet unreleased MSRP).  Personally I feel that if Ford is going to
make the product more widely available then they need to up the production
numbers (Like the Corvette which is turned out in batches of about 30,000 a
year).  With current market conditions and a lack of real competition the
demand for the GT500 far exceeds the supply leaving only those with
extremely deep wallets the ability to purchase one.

From what I have been reading on many message boards I think this is going
to come back to bite ford in the a.s.  Several people I know who have been
Ford diehards all their lives are extremely pissed and actually looking to
move away from Ford and start buying other brands.  What Ford marketing has
been saying (and what I was personally told when I called Ford) is that the
low volume maintains exclusivity and if I look around I should be able to
find one (obviously at an inflated price).  This seems like an odd statement
to make if you are in the business of making money.  I would think they
would want to produce as many GT500's as there was demand for (again like
the Corvette).  However I have heard rumors that the actual cause for the
low production quote are issues with acquiring enough 6 speed transmissions.
If thats the case I would say they need to either find a new supplier or
make the GT500 available with a 5 speed and offer the 6 speed as an upgrade
option.

All I can say is I hope Ford gets its act together quick before the
competition takes advantage of the extremely high demand for high
performance Pony cars and Fords inability or unwillingness to produce them.
I did hear a rumor that Dodge has green lighted the Challenger and it might
actually be available in 2007 as a 2008 model.  If that is true then the
GT500 and Mustang in general is going to be getting some competition sooner
than expected.

-DCH
Brent P - 21 Mar 2006 18:35 GMT
> If thats the case I would say they need to either find a new supplier or
> make the GT500 available with a 5 speed and offer the 6 speed as an upgrade
> option.

Sounds like BS to me since Ford is the last to offer the T56.

Brent P - 21 Mar 2006 18:48 GMT
> Unfortunately with the limited availability and increased distribution each
> dealer is going to try and reap as much profit as possible (as can be see on
> ebay and other places where the GT500's are getting bids of 25K and up over
> the as yet unreleased MSRP).

Just went to ebay to look. Dealers are hyping it as '2 years only' and 'our
only one'. Over MSRP amount due immediately and non-refundable.

My favorite stealership quote from ebay:

"This is a limited production car and has been sold for as much as
$600,000 at auction!"

I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.
Ritz - 22 Mar 2006 01:38 GMT
>> Unfortunately with the limited availability and increased distribution each
>> dealer is going to try and reap as much profit as possible (as can be see on
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.

Dude, get over it already.  Buy a stock '05 GT, buy a supercharger, buy
bigger brakes and some beefier sways/shocks and if you really want to go
whole hog, buy the Shelby body kit (which they'll gladly sell you).
Congrats, you've just saved yourself $30k.
Brent P - 22 Mar 2006 02:03 GMT
>> I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.

> Dude, get over it already.  Buy a stock '05 GT, buy a supercharger, buy
> bigger brakes and some beefier sways/shocks and if you really want to go
> whole hog, buy the Shelby body kit (which they'll gladly sell you).

No, I am not rewarding ford and buying a lesser model with intent to
modify. Been there, done that, car is still nearly stock. I don't want an
engineering project, I do those for a living.

Buying a regular GT is just want ford marketing wants people to do and I
am not going to reward them. I'll sooner spend more money than I intended
for a more refined car without the comprimises of a base mustang than I
will squandering it on modifications that have me replacing blown engines
and spending countless hours working out bugs or on dealer premium.

> Congrats, you've just saved yourself $30k.

Only if you count the outragous over-sticker bidding, which I refuse to
even consider. I'll save the whole thing and not buy.
Ritz - 22 Mar 2006 05:36 GMT
>>> I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> modify. Been there, done that, car is still nearly stock. I don't want an
> engineering project, I do those for a living.

So you're not going to buy one anyway...if you're going to piss into the
wind, maybe you can do it in private...

If you want a "Shelby" you'll have to suck it up and pay.  If you want a
fast Mustang (which is all you'll be getting anyway) then build your
own.  If you just want to listen to bitching and complaining then post
cat recipes to rec.pets.cats...

<plonk>
Brent P - 22 Mar 2006 05:53 GMT
>>>> I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> So you're not going to buy one anyway...if you're going to piss into the
> wind, maybe you can do it in private...

GT500 for MSRP or less is certainly on my short list.

> If you want a "Shelby" you'll have to suck it up and pay.  

I want a fast car with braking and handling that I fit in that is RWD
with a manual transmission. I also don't want to spend 45K+ for it. If I
have to spend 45K+ for it, the GT500 is no longer in contention. I can
just go over to the chevy dealer down the street and pick up a new vette
without all the bidding and bullshit. (but I fit poorly in a vette, but
I am sure I can more easily modify the driver's seat than make GT500 out
of a mustang GT)

As much as it would pain me to go over to GM, it would pain me more to
play Ford's games. A used Porsche 911 wouldn't be a bad option either,
and given the ebay bidding a new 911 could be had for the same money.
(and if it's exclusivity that ford is shooting for, owning a
Porsche 911 or viper will have more of that effect than a car most
people will see as just another mustang regardless of the relative
production numbers against a GT500)

You may be willing to play ford's game and may not like that I am not
willing to. But as I follow this stuff online, fewer and fewer people
are willing to do so. Ford will be gutting their most loyal customer base
if they persist in this direction.

> If you want a
> fast Mustang (which is all you'll be getting anyway) then build your
> own.  

I'd rather build a fast 6 cylinder maverick if I am going to go through all
that effort. It's not like mods are worth squat afterwards anyway, and I
might as well make it something different.

> If you just want to listen to bitching and complaining then post
> cat recipes to rec.pets.cats...

I may be the most vocal here, but not the only here and not the only one
online either.
Michael Johnson, PE - 22 Mar 2006 06:47 GMT
>>>>> I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.
>>>> Dude, get over it already.  Buy a stock '05 GT, buy a supercharger, buy
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> I may be the most vocal here, but not the only here and not the only one
> online either.

My big issue with Ford on the GT500 is all the hype they have generated
about bringing the car to market at the $40k-$45k level.  They know a
low production run will hike the price well beyond $50k.  If they do
limit production then I figure the '89 LX sitting in my garage will be
my last new Mustang.  It really irritates me that they have made such an
issue about the price of the GT500 and if what is rumored comes to pass
they have shown their word means nothing.  All I want from Ford is to
say what they will do and then do what they have said.  Maybe that is
asking too much of them.
Zombywoof - 22 Mar 2006 14:52 GMT
<snip>

>My big issue with Ford on the GT500 is all the hype they have generated
>about bringing the car to market at the $40k-$45k level.  They know a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>say what they will do and then do what they have said.  Maybe that is
>asking too much of them.

Hell I had a big enough issue with them over the GT to sit idlely by
and watch them do the same damn thing with the GT500.  It seems that
the manufacturers have caught on to the fact that there are an awful
lot of fools out there with more money then sense.
Signature


December 9, 2005 (CNN) While interviewing an anonymous
US Special Forces soldier, a Reuters News agent asked
the soldier what he felt when sniping members of Al Quaeda
in Afghanistan.

The soldier shrugged and replied, "Recoil." (Possible Urban Legend)

Backyard Mechanic - 22 Mar 2006 15:31 GMT
> Hell I had a big enough issue with them over the GT to sit idlely by
> and watch them do the same damn thing with the GT500.

Let me get this straight.. you are going to show Ford that you arent going
to 'sit idly by'.. by sitting idly by, and not buying the product.. right?

>  It seems that
> the manufacturers have caught on to the fact that there are an awful
> lot of fools out there with more money then sense.

And you want Ford to learn their lessons from the foreign competition...
but not apply ALL of them, right?

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Zombywoof - 22 Mar 2006 21:55 GMT
>> Hell I had a big enough issue with them over the GT to sit idlely by
>> and watch them do the same damn thing with the GT500.
>
>Let me get this straight.. you are going to show Ford that you arent going
>to 'sit idly by'.. by sitting idly by, and not buying the product.. right?

By that I mean I stroked old Bill Ford a letter letting him know how I
feel on the subject.  We can all sit around in this forum and bitch
till the cows come home, but that ain't going to make a point with the
decision (or indecision as the case maybe) makers.

Does that put it into perspective for you?

Oh and sorry that my spell checker isn't up to your standards.

>>  It seems that
>> the manufacturers have caught on to the fact that there are an awful
>> lot of fools out there with more money then sense.
>
>And you want Ford to learn their lessons from the foreign competition...
>but not apply ALL of them, right?

Hell I want Ford to learn lessons from their own dumbass mistakes, let
alone others.  I've already dumped their stock that has been held in
my family for almost 50 years and moved the proceeds into Harley
Stock.  
Signature


December 9, 2005 (CNN) While interviewing an anonymous
US Special Forces soldier, a Reuters News agent asked
the soldier what he felt when sniping members of Al Quaeda
in Afghanistan.

The soldier shrugged and replied, "Recoil." (Possible Urban Legend)

Backyard Mechanic - 23 Mar 2006 12:29 GMT
> Oh and sorry that my spell checker isn't up to your standards.

What's that about...?  Really.. is "idly" wrong?... that's one of the
tricky ones.

Summary:  I believe market forces shake things out better than "managed
prices and markets"
Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Zombywoof - 23 Mar 2006 22:04 GMT
>> Oh and sorry that my spell checker isn't up to your standards.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Summary:  I believe market forces shake things out better than "managed
>prices and markets"

As with all things, sometimes good, sometimes bad.  Letting the Market
sort things out might really be good for me, but bad for Ford in the
long run.  Then end up being bad for me because of loss of a choice,
yet again good because of a new player entering the market.

I know Delorean didn't have much success addressing the sporting car
market from scratch, but I also think many things in his business
model were flawed as well.  I really honestly & sincerely think there
is a "good" market segment out there for an affordable high
performance sporting automobile.  It just seems no one has the balls
to bring it to market.
Signature


December 9, 2005 (CNN) While interviewing an anonymous
US Special Forces soldier, a Reuters News agent asked
the soldier what he felt when sniping members of Al Quaeda
in Afghanistan.

The soldier shrugged and replied, "Recoil." (Possible Urban Legend)

Michael Johnson, PE - 22 Mar 2006 16:59 GMT
> <snip>
>> My big issue with Ford on the GT500 is all the hype they have generated
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> the manufacturers have caught on to the fact that there are an awful
> lot of fools out there with more money then sense.

At least with the GT they stated a production number and an MSRP and for
the most part have held to those numbers.  The dealers did what dealers
do and tried to maximize profits.  Ford has made a huge issue since last
summer of bringing the GT500 in at $40k and making them in decent
quantity.  The GT500 was to be the next incarnation of the Terminator
Cobra with a little extra by adding the Shelby name on the rear end.
They aren't saying this anymore.  Now the car is some kind of special
limited production run targeted at collectors.

I'm a patient man and will wait this out to see what really happens with
the pricing.  If I can't get a GT500 then a garden variety GT will not
be what I am looking for.  I have done the buildup routine and don't
want to take that path again.  I want a monster from the factory that I
can drive and enjoy from day one and with a warranty.  Funny but that is
what I thought Ford had now with the Cobra model.  A high reasonably
priced, high performance Mustang for those of us wanting a more than a
GT could deliver.  Maybe that isn't so anymore.  Hell, I would have
settled for the current model with the '03-'04 Cobra drive train.  I'm
not greedy and didn't need, or want, Shelby's name on the car.
Zombywoof - 22 Mar 2006 22:01 GMT
>> <snip>
>>> My big issue with Ford on the GT500 is all the hype they have generated
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>settled for the current model with the '03-'04 Cobra drive train.  I'm
>not greedy and didn't need, or want, Shelby's name on the car.

Well I've stroked my Joe Consumer perspective letter off to Bill and
that is about all I can really do other then cross my fingers & hope.
Ford could have controlled their dealers if they wanted to, they just
didn't want to and probably even privately condoned the markup
practices.  

If I am not able to get what I want out of a next generation
production muscle car from Ford I just need to sit back and wait until
their exclusive control of the market is eroded by the reemergence of
the Challenger & Camaro.  Personally at this time I am probably
leaning more towards a Challenger which will probably come in at an
even better price point.  All I got to do is wait.  As opposed to Ford
I'm not currently losing money by holding off on purchases.
Signature


December 9, 2005 (CNN) While interviewing an anonymous
US Special Forces soldier, a Reuters News agent asked
the soldier what he felt when sniping members of Al Quaeda
in Afghanistan.

The soldier shrugged and replied, "Recoil." (Possible Urban Legend)

Michael Johnson, PE - 21 Mar 2006 23:09 GMT
>>> <snip>
>>>> My big issue with Ford on the GT500 is all the hype they have generated
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> even better price point.  All I got to do is wait.  As opposed to Ford
> I'm not currently losing money by holding off on purchases.

Same here.  I'm not in desperate need of any car.  I also would like to
see what comes out of DC with the Charger/Challenger.  A Challenger
convertible with a nice 400+ hp engine with no more than a $40k price
tag would do just fine.  Especially if it looks anywhere near the
concept Challenger I saw at the DC Auto Show.  Then again, a Z06
delivering 95% of the Ford GT performance for $70k is another option
that really gets my interest.  In a way there are almost too many
choices.  It is good times indeed for us horsepower addicted gear heads.
Zombywoof - 23 Mar 2006 22:15 GMT
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> My big issue with Ford on the GT500 is all the hype they have generated
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>that really gets my interest.  In a way there are almost too many
>choices.  It is good times indeed for us horsepower addicted gear heads.

With a 40k price point, I just might need to become a Pontiac guy
again.  http://www.mallettcars.com/solstice-conversion.htm
Signature


December 9, 2005 (CNN) While interviewing an anonymous
US Special Forces soldier, a Reuters News agent asked
the soldier what he felt when sniping members of Al Quaeda
in Afghanistan.

The soldier shrugged and replied, "Recoil." (Possible Urban Legend)

Michael Johnson, PE - 23 Mar 2006 23:15 GMT
>><snip>
>>
> With a 40k price point, I just might need to become a Pontiac guy
> again.  http://www.mallettcars.com/solstice-conversion.htm

Looks like a take-off of the Monster Miata that swaps in a Ford 302.
Then there was the Mega Monster Miata that sproted a 302 with a Kenne
Bell Blower.  It was a true Viper killer.
Joe - 24 Mar 2006 04:00 GMT
>>><snip>
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Then there was the Mega Monster Miata that sproted a 302 with a Kenne
> Bell Blower.  It was a true Viper killer.

I'd go for the the 600hp blown version of the Sky.  Much more
attractive.
Zombywoof - 24 Mar 2006 04:43 GMT
>>>><snip>
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>I'd go for the the 600hp blown version of the Sky.  Much more
>attractive.

I'd have to agree even if just going for the Factory base model of
either, the Sky is a more attractive platform.  The base kit from
Mallet is also about 3k cheaper on the Sky.
Signature


"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Joe - 24 Mar 2006 13:15 GMT
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> either, the Sky is a more attractive platform.  The base kit from
> Mallet is also about 3k cheaper on the Sky.

And there's a 2-year/24k warranty to boot.  Cool.
Zombywoof - 24 Mar 2006 13:55 GMT
>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>And there's a 2-year/24k warranty to boot.  Cool.

While on the face of it, it might be cool, but Mallet Cars just ain't
right around the corner for me, and I suspect many others.  
Signature


"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Michael Johnson, PE - 24 Mar 2006 06:45 GMT
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I'd go for the the 600hp blown version of the Sky.  Much more
> attractive.

Wouldn't we all. ;)
Joe - 24 Mar 2006 13:18 GMT
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Wouldn't we all. ;)

Maybe not.  I know a guy who drives a Miata that says his car (stock)
has enough power for him.  Poor soul...
Michael Johnson, PE - 24 Mar 2006 18:50 GMT
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Maybe not.  I know a guy who drives a Miata that says his car (stock)
> has enough power for him.  Poor soul...

You know the old saying "You can't miss what you never had". :)
Zombywoof - 24 Mar 2006 23:33 GMT
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>You know the old saying "You can't miss what you never had". :)

Except when it comes to wimmen folk, I've missed everyone I haven't
had.
Signature


"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Zombywoof - 24 Mar 2006 04:45 GMT
>>><snip>
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Then there was the Mega Monster Miata that sproted a 302 with a Kenne
>Bell Blower.  It was a true Viper killer.

Who made the Monster Miata?  Mallet has been in business for quite
sometime now with GM products as their base platform.  They've done
some pretty amazing things with Vettes, so I don't think they are
copy-cating anyone with their Solstice & Sky conversions.
Signature


"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Michael Johnson, PE - 24 Mar 2006 06:44 GMT
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> some pretty amazing things with Vettes, so I don't think they are
> copy-cating anyone with their Solstice & Sky conversions.

Here is a link:  http://www.monstermiata.com/default.asp

The Solstice is more manly than the Miata.  It would be a nice car but I
wonder if it is front heavy to the point it effects handling.  It is
nice that they have a 2-year, 24k mile warranty.
Joe - 24 Mar 2006 13:21 GMT
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> wonder if it is front heavy to the point it effects handling.  It is
> nice that they have a 2-year, 24k mile warranty.

They say the handling is awesome:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051226/FREE/51214007/1008/V
EHICLEREVIEWS

Michael Johnson, PE - 24 Mar 2006 23:40 GMT
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> They say the handling is awesome:
> http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051226/FREE/51214007/1008/V
EHICLEREVIEWS

Sounds like a good car and the price isn't bad for what you get.  That
2/24 warranty is worth a lot, IMO.
Zombywoof - 24 Mar 2006 14:05 GMT
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>wonder if it is front heavy to the point it effects handling.  It is
>nice that they have a 2-year, 24k mile warranty.

Ha hah, I see.  It is a kit similar to V8 Fiero conversions & S-10 V*
swap-outs.  Quite a bit different then a complete car engineered &
produced by a factory as the Mallet cars are.  While the overall
concept is cool it is quite old (throwing big engine in little car)
and just a kit to simplify the process.  

With the Mallet GM platforms it is a donor car (usually new) and sacks
of money to end up with damn near a production level model.  Hell
there is even a 2/2 warranty to go with it.  Now what did surprise me
with the Mallet Solstice/Sky is that they are limiting them to 100
end-units which seems strange to me.  Why would any end product
manufacturer constrain themselves to any output other then by demand?
Why wouldn't they want to make as many as they can sell, unless GM is
restricting their new parts access of course.

Personally if I did go this route I would want to wait for a while
after buying the car to have the conversion done.  However, it looks
like with the Solstice & Sky, he who waits will be lost.

Oh their Caddy CTS-V unit looks interesting as well.
Signature


"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Michael Johnson, PE - 24 Mar 2006 23:46 GMT
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> concept is cool it is quite old (throwing big engine in little car)
> and just a kit to simplify the process.

The best application of a big engine in a little car was an MG I saw in
my teenage years that had a 327 stuffed into it.  It looked like an a.s 
kicker and probably was.

> With the Mallet GM platforms it is a donor car (usually new) and sacks
> of money to end up with damn near a production level model.  Hell
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Why wouldn't they want to make as many as they can sell, unless GM is
> restricting their new parts access of course.

With more production comes more problems to overcome.  Maybe they just
don't want to expand for one model that Pontiac might decide to cancel
next year.  Having been a business owner, I can think of many reasons
why they might want to limit production.

> Personally if I did go this route I would want to wait for a while
> after buying the car to have the conversion done.  However, it looks
> like with the Solstice & Sky, he who waits will be lost.

If you want one you will probably need to pull the trigger now.

> Oh their Caddy CTS-V unit looks interesting as well.

I've never been a Caddy man.
Joe - 25 Mar 2006 15:16 GMT
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> in my teenage years that had a 327 stuffed into it.  It looked like an
> a.s kicker and probably was.

My vote goes to the AC Cobra.

>> With the Mallet GM platforms it is a donor car (usually new) and
>> sacks of money to end up with damn near a production level model.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> demand? Why wouldn't they want to make as many as they can sell,
>> unless GM is restricting their new parts access of course.

LOL!  Deja Vu.  Sounds exactly like what's been said about the GT500.

> With more production comes more problems to overcome.  Maybe they just
> don't want to expand for one model that Pontiac might decide to cancel
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> If you want one you will probably need to pull the trigger now.

OTOH, a nice late-60s muscle car would be nice too.  And about 1/3 to 1/2
the price.

>> Oh their Caddy CTS-V unit looks interesting as well.
>
> I've never been a Caddy man.

Me neither until I checked out the CTS-V.  It's basically a 4-door
Corvette.  400/395 LS2 stock.
Michael Johnson, PE - 25 Mar 2006 19:22 GMT
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> Me neither until I checked out the CTS-V.  It's basically a 4-door
> Corvette.  400/395 LS2 stock.

I haven't warmed up to the new style of the Caddies.  They look like
something that the Bizzaro Superman would drive. ;)
Joe - 26 Mar 2006 15:54 GMT
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> I haven't warmed up to the new style of the Caddies.  They look like
> something that the Bizzaro Superman would drive. ;)

Seen 'em in person yet?  Pop the hood on one.  You'll like that view a
lot.  ;)  Better yet, sit in one and imagine driving a 'Vette.  It's not
that much of a stretch.
Michael Johnson, PE - 26 Mar 2006 17:17 GMT
>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> lot.  ;)  Better yet, sit in one and imagine driving a 'Vette.  It's not
> that much of a stretch.

I have no problem with what they have under the skin.  I think Caddy has
some very well engineered vehicles.  I'm just not a big fan of the "cut"
design style.  Caddy seems to use designs that become dated too quickly,
IMHO.  To me, Mercedes designs, by contrast, seem more timeless.  It's
just a personal preference thing on my part.
Joe - 26 Mar 2006 17:55 GMT
>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> quickly, IMHO.  To me, Mercedes designs, by contrast, seem more
> timeless.  It's just a personal preference thing on my part.

Gotta agree with you there, Michael.  Although I think the new 'R'
series looks weird.
Ritz - 22 Mar 2006 14:02 GMT
> GT500 for MSRP or less is certainly on my short list.

That's extremely unlikely to happen.  So your bitching is rather pointless.

>> If you want a "Shelby" you'll have to suck it up and pay.  
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I am sure I can more easily modify the driver's seat than make GT500 out
> of a mustang GT)

So you like the Mustang but don't want to pay the market price.  I don't
blame you, but whining about it here serves no purpose.  Write a letter
to Ford if it bothers you that much.  I suspect they care more about the
financial boon to their stealerships than any ill will it generates with
you, though.

> As much as it would pain me to go over to GM, it would pain me more to
> play Ford's games. A used Porsche 911 wouldn't be a bad option either,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> people will see as just another mustang regardless of the relative
> production numbers against a GT500)

There ya go.  Lots of options.  How about picking one instead of
grousing about the option that you'll most likely not have?

> You may be willing to play ford's game and may not like that I am not
> willing to. But as I follow this stuff online, fewer and fewer people
> are willing to do so. Ford will be gutting their most loyal customer base
> if they persist in this direction.

I'm not playing anyone's "game".  I'm actually getting an RS6 for my
daily driver fun and might pick up a stock Mustang GT and modify it per
my suggestion above for summer weekend fun.  If I don't have the time or
inclination for that, I'll just get a Z06 or a Viper or maybe even
supercharge an older NSX and call it a day.  It's ONLY a car, man....

>> If you want a
>> fast Mustang (which is all you'll be getting anyway) then build your
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> that effort. It's not like mods are worth squat afterwards anyway, and I
> might as well make it something different.

Whether you mod it yourself or pay Ford/Shelby to mod it for you, it's
still going to depreciate like a rock.  Welcome to economics 101.  A
motor vehicle, with very few exceptions, (and this ain't one of 'em) is
a depreciating asset.  If you're already whining about the markup, you
probably don't have the spare cash to play the collector game anyway
(few people really do).

>> If you just want to listen to bitching and complaining then post
>> cat recipes to rec.pets.cats...
>
> I may be the most vocal here, but not the only here and not the only one
> online either.

No, not the most vocal.  Perhaps the most annoying though....
Brent P - 22 Mar 2006 15:36 GMT
>> GT500 for MSRP or less is certainly on my short list.
> That's extremely unlikely to happen.  So your bitching is rather pointless.

And that is because of decisions made by the ford motor company. Nothing
regarding the car itself.

>>> If you want a "Shelby" you'll have to suck it up and pay.  
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> I am sure I can more easily modify the driver's seat than make GT500 out
>> of a mustang GT)

> So you like the Mustang but don't want to pay the market price.  

The market price is being artifically inflated by ford's marketing
decisions. I'm not going to play their game.

> I don't
> blame you, but whining about it here serves no purpose.  Write a letter
> to Ford if it bothers you that much.  I suspect they care more about the
> financial boon to their stealerships than any ill will it generates with
> you, though.

You don't think corporations monitor these newsgroups? I once made a post
on a product I worked on. Inside a week I had to meet with a manager
about it. I had simply offered a customer help.

That aside, if you have a real contact name and address, post it.

>> As much as it would pain me to go over to GM, it would pain me more to
>> play Ford's games. A used Porsche 911 wouldn't be a bad option either,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> people will see as just another mustang regardless of the relative
>> production numbers against a GT500)

> There ya go.  Lots of options.  How about picking one instead of
> grousing about the option that you'll most likely not have?

This is a discussion group. I will participate in these threads as I see
fit. You are welcome to kill file me. I haven't changed my 'from' field
in years, and unless yahoo mail shuts down I don't see myself changing it
for years to come.

>> You may be willing to play ford's game and may not like that I am not
>> willing to. But as I follow this stuff online, fewer and fewer people
>> are willing to do so. Ford will be gutting their most loyal customer base
>> if they persist in this direction.

> I'm not playing anyone's "game".

You're making the arguement that one should or shut the f.ck up.

> It's ONLY a car, man....

Of course, and that should be obvious from my posts. But here you are all
upset about my posts. Use your killfile. Killfile me or the GT500
threads, don't go into tirades telling me what I should or should not be
posting.  

>>> If you want a
>>> fast Mustang (which is all you'll be getting anyway) then build your
>>> own.  

>> I'd rather build a fast 6 cylinder maverick if I am going to go through all
>> that effort. It's not like mods are worth squat afterwards anyway, and I
>> might as well make it something different.

> Whether you mod it yourself or pay Ford/Shelby to mod it for you,

Shelby isn't doing jack sh.t to these cars. They are coming the way they
are straight from the ford factory.

> it's
> still going to depreciate like a rock.  Welcome to economics 101.

I am driving the 1997 GT I bought new in decemeber 1996. Do you think I
give two sh.ts about depreciation? I care about what I get for the money
in a _new_ car because I don't want a car someone else has broken. I
keep my cars forever or until they are destroyed by factors outside my
control. Depreciation is meaningless to me.

>  A
> motor vehicle, with very few exceptions, (and this ain't one of 'em) is
> a depreciating asset.  If you're already whining about the markup, you
> probably don't have the spare cash to play the collector game anyway
> (few people really do).

Mark up reduces the value for the money. At MSRP, the GT500 looks like a
good value for the money. At 20K over MSRP it's a poor value for the money.
I am not playing the collector game, Ford apparently wants people to
play that game and your arguement that I should play it or STFU.

>>> If you just want to listen to bitching and complaining then post
>>> cat recipes to rec.pets.cats...
>>
>> I may be the most vocal here, but not the only here and not the only one
>> online either.

> No, not the most vocal.  Perhaps the most annoying though....

Well I suggest you learn to use the kill file feature of your newsreader
or get a newsreader with that feature and solve the problem you are
having.
Ritz - 23 Mar 2006 00:44 GMT
<lots of silliness deleted>

> Well I suggest you learn to use the kill file feature of your newsreader
> or get a newsreader with that feature and solve the problem you are
> having.

What problem is that?  The fact that I find your Don Quixote redux as
boring and pointless?  Why not spend that energy letting people who
actually have the capacity to change things know how you feel.  If you
think Ford execs monitor this group, you might as well post your Xmas
list for Santa here too....

*shrug*
Brent P - 23 Mar 2006 06:56 GMT
><lots of silliness deleted>
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> *shrug*

I have attempted to find a meaningful address to a person at ford where
it would be worth my effort without luck so far. I have called ford, but
that was pointless excerise. So, if you can provide a meaningful mail or
email address to a real person at ford, please do. My complaints have
already been 'registered' in the normal fashion by the underlings.

Like I wrote, corporations do monitor this sort of thing. I worked for a
such a large corporation that monitored usenet. As for ford specifically
they do indeed monitor content on the web to at least some degree. My
Maverick website, when it still ran on servers I controlled so I could
read the logs would have visits from interesting hostnames deep within
the ford.com domain. Could have been some websurfing employee but some of
the hostnames indicated it was a little bit more than that.

If my posts bother you, kill file me and your problem is solved. Yet you
feel some overwhelming desire to consume your time insulting me.
Ritz - 23 Mar 2006 13:08 GMT
>> <lots of silliness deleted>
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> the ford.com domain. Could have been some websurfing employee but some of
> the hostnames indicated it was a little bit more than that.

Let's see....after approximately 5 seconds of searching on the web, I found:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=F

Gee...their corporate address, main phone/fax #'s, and the names and
titles of all senior management.  Knock yourself out.

> If my posts bother you, kill file me and your problem is solved. Yet you
> feel some overwhelming desire to consume your time insulting me.

It's about as bothersome as a mosquito flying about the room when you're
trying to sleep.  If you want to post your uninspiring mind dumps here,
then at least have a skin thick enough to deal with the results.  I'm
sure Ford would also love to know about the deep conspiracy of their
internal management having an interest in a website about a vehicle out
of production since the 70's.  Break out the tinfoil hats....

Have a nice day,
Brent P - 23 Mar 2006 14:52 GMT
>>> <lots of silliness deleted>
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Gee...their corporate address, main phone/fax #'s, and the names and
> titles of all senior management.  Knock yourself out.

What about meaningful contact information did you not understand?
General corporate information is usually useless in actually contacting
someone meaningful at a large corporation. There is maybe a 1% chance
that any mail ends up in the hands of the right person. I really
shouldn't have to explain this to any adult who's been out in the world.
Are you 13 years old and doing your write-the-corporation assignment for
school?

Addressing a letter to Bill Ford, FoMoCo, Dearborn, MI is going to be
about as successful as GW Bush, Washington DC, USA. If you're really
lucky, some secretary sends you a form letter in return. Hell, this
probably comes a as a shock to you, you probably think those return
letters were actually written by the head guy and signed by him, by hand.
On rare occasion it does happen. RARE. They are generally written by some
staff member and the signature is from a stamp or some more modern
reproduction technique.

I've already had my more or less form phone conversation. The guy wasn't
the usual drone though so I can't be too hard on him, but there's no way
that conversation went beyond the lowest levels. So when you have
something meaningful, some way of getting by the layers of employees to
a decision maker, not the general corporate mail bag, let me know.

>> If my posts bother you, kill file me and your problem is solved. Yet you
>> feel some overwhelming desire to consume your time insulting me.

> It's about as bothersome as a mosquito flying about the room when you're
> trying to sleep.  If you want to post your uninspiring mind dumps here,
> then at least have a skin thick enough to deal with the results.

Let's see, you are complaining about my posts. Why don't you take your
own advice and learn how to deal with it?

> I'm
> sure Ford would also love to know about the deep conspiracy of their
> internal management having an interest in a website about a vehicle out
> of production since the 70's.  Break out the tinfoil hats....

It's not my fault you apparently have zero experience with large
corporations. Afterall you think a general corporate address gets your
letter in the hands of the right person.... you must also believe that
sending your resume into the human resources meat grinder is as effective
as having a hiring manager's name and contact info too! But back to
internet content, so how did blueovalnews.com end up in court again? Ford
found that they were providing content ford didn't like seeing out there.
How did Ford know it was there?

It's clear that you are an ignorant when it comes to things. After
all, only such a person would confuse a corporation's rutine examination of
internet content with some kind of tin-foil hat conspirisy. The excutives
at one company I used to work for would rutinely check the yahoo finance
message board regarding the company's stock. I've gotten feedback on
products that I have worked on that was scarfed from web discussion
groups by people in the company and put together in reports and sent to
us. The large consumer products manufacturer that I once worked for
noticed pilot run product turning up on ebay. That company is the
same one that detected my usenet posting where I attempted to help a
customer directly. Ford is more than advanced enough to have people taking a
sampling. They would be stupid not to.
Ritz - 23 Mar 2006 15:31 GMT
>> Let's see....after approximately 5 seconds of searching on the web, I found:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Are you 13 years old and doing your write-the-corporation assignment for
> school?

Heh.  Those same people each have assistants who's job it is to wade
through drivel from people like yourself and forward it to appropriate
personnel.

> Addressing a letter to Bill Ford, FoMoCo, Dearborn, MI is going to be
> about as successful as GW Bush, Washington DC, USA. If you're really

...but certainly more successful than whining to a bunch of strangers on
a usenet group.  If you insist on wasting your time, why not limit the
time wasted by others to Bill Ford's assistant?

> lucky, some secretary sends you a form letter in return. Hell, this
> probably comes a as a shock to you, you probably think those return
> letters were actually written by the head guy and signed by him, by hand.
> On rare occasion it does happen. RARE. They are generally written by some
> staff member and the signature is from a stamp or some more modern
> reproduction technique.

Spare me the corporate 101, junior.  A well ejuhcated and experienced
person like yourself should have no difficulty with such a trivial task
as influencing the marketing decision of a Fortune 50 company.  Jump
right in and do let us know how it works out...<plonk>

 >> It's about as bothersome as a mosquito flying about the room when
you're
>> trying to sleep.  If you want to post your uninspiring mind dumps here,
>> then at least have a skin thick enough to deal with the results.
>
> Let's see, you are complaining about my posts. Why don't you take your
> own advice and learn how to deal with it?

Because I guess I'm deriving some small amount of pleasure from making
you look like an a.s.  I'm sorry.  I'll try to contain myself.

> customer directly. Ford is more than advanced enough to have people taking a
> sampling. They would be stupid not to.

I'll defer to your expert tesitmony on stupidity.

Have a nice day,
Brent P - 23 Mar 2006 15:53 GMT
>>> Let's see....after approximately 5 seconds of searching on the web, I found:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>> Are you 13 years old and doing your write-the-corporation assignment for
>> school?

> Heh.  Those same people each have assistants who's job it is to wade
> through drivel from people like yourself and forward it to appropriate
> personnel.

First you need real contact information, not the corporate mailbox.

>> Addressing a letter to Bill Ford, FoMoCo, Dearborn, MI is going to be
>> about as successful as GW Bush, Washington DC, USA. If you're really  
> ...but certainly more successful than whining to a bunch of strangers on
> a usenet group.  If you insist on wasting your time, why not limit the
> time wasted by others to Bill Ford's assistant?

Interesting that you consider comments from me to be whining but when
others state the same thing it's not. Again, if you don't like my posts,
don't read them.

>> lucky, some secretary sends you a form letter in return. Hell, this
>> probably comes a as a shock to you, you probably think those return
>> letters were actually written by the head guy and signed by him, by hand.
>> On rare occasion it does happen. RARE. They are generally written by some
>> staff member and the signature is from a stamp or some more modern
>> reproduction technique.  

> Spare me the corporate 101, junior.  A well ejuhcated and experienced
> person like yourself should have no difficulty with such a trivial task
> as influencing the marketing decision of a Fortune 50 company.  Jump
> right in and do let us know how it works out...

Let's examine your arguement. You say that posting in a discussion on
usenet has zero chance and that one should contact the company directly. Now
you are saying that contacting the corporation directly has zero chance.
Seems I had you pegged correctly, you're just another usenet troll with
mental development of 12 year old.

> <plonk>

Could that plonk mean you've finally taken the step of using your kill
file to solve the problem you're having?

>  >> It's about as bothersome as a mosquito flying about the room when  you're
>>> trying to sleep.  If you want to post your uninspiring mind dumps here,
>>> then at least have a skin thick enough to deal with the results.

>> Let's see, you are complaining about my posts. Why don't you take your
>> own advice and learn how to deal with it?
 
> Because I guess I'm deriving some small amount of pleasure from making
> you look like an a.s.  I'm sorry.  I'll try to contain myself.

The only person looking like an a.s here is yourself, troll.

>> customer directly. Ford is more than advanced enough to have people taking a
>> sampling. They would be stupid not to.

> I'll defer to your expert tesitmony on stupidity.
> Have a nice day,

Since you've now admitted being a troll, I'll treat you as one.
nobody@myhouse.com - 25 Mar 2006 04:37 GMT
I'm just a simple man, one who works for a living.  I bought a '68
Baracuda formula S and "loved it" till I had to sell it because of a
"deeper love" (to whom I am still married)  There just wasn't enough
money to have both my "loves."  At any rate, after returning from
Europe (in the Air Force)  I bought a Ford, and have been driving
Fords since 1973.  I will be the first to admit, I'm not a "fleet
dealer" and I won't make or break Ford with my "loyalty"  That's not
the reason I drive a 2005 Mustang GT.  I drive it because when I was
a kid in high school (without a pot to piss in...)  I dreamed of
having one.  After high school and raising a family (that would never
fit on a Mustang)  I finally was able to buy one and enjoy it.  My
wife drives a Mercury Mountaineer.  I might add that I have a
relationship with both the Ford and Mercury dealerships in my home
town that spans three decades.  Some may call me a "Ford man"  I
wouldn't disagree.

All that said,  it should be apparent that I think Ford products fit
my needs and give me the value I believe is important when I spend my
money.  

What I see happening with the GT500 is more a matter of greed from the
dealers.  Ford is turning a "blind eye" on the financial aspect and
allowing their dealers to "rape the public" if they see fit.  

I don't think Maytag, Sony, GE  (for that matter, any of the major
manufacturers)  ride supervisory control over their dealers.  Some
"insist" that dealers charge at least the suggested retail for
products, but I don't know of any manufacturer that mandates a
retailer charge less than the market will bear.  

What I see Ford doing here is "allowing" dealerships to compete in
charging what the public will pay.  Essentially, this is the "American
free enterprise system."   Ford's ability to control this lays in
production.  If they build enough GT500's to satisfy demand, the
dealer's become impotent.  BUT, if Ford "plays the game" and limits
production, then, as a manufacturer, they are joining in the dealer's
game and allowing the dealers to  "screw" the customer.  I don't like
playing those games, and as small as my "contribution" to Ford's
profit margin may be (I only buy a new car every 2-3 years)  I can say
in this forum as I have in letters to Ford and to my friends at the
local dealerships,  that I'm not going to exclude other car brands to
maintain a friendship with my current Ford/Mercury dealerships.  

I view the GT500 supply and demand as "manipulative" by Ford
management and if they don't value my loyalty to their company any
more than it appears they do, then:

I guess the bottom line is that if Ford turns their back on me,  I'm
willing to walk away from the 30+ year loyalty I've had with them and
look elsewhere for value in the dollars I spend.

This may seem "simplistic and juvenile" in attitude, but sometimes the
simple answer is the most realistic.  Bottom line is, "Money talks,
bullshit walks"  

I don't know what I will buy next, I do enjoy my Mustang,  but I do
know that Ford isn't the only game in town.  

Dad used to say, "screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame
on me."  

Me thinks, dad might be onto something there...  
Zombywoof - 25 Mar 2006 20:51 GMT
>I'm just a simple man, one who works for a living.  I bought a '68
>Baracuda formula S and "loved it" till I had to sell it because of a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>town that spans three decades.  Some may call me a "Ford man"  I
>wouldn't disagree.

Well I've long dreamed a little dream of re-owning a 1970 Plmouth Cuda
AAR finished in FT6 Burnt tan metallic with tan bucket interior.
Powered by a 340/6 pack T/A engine, with pistol grip 4-speed
transmission, power steering, power brakes, console, rally dash, and
rally rims.

Or in my wildest of dreams a 1971 Plymouth Hemi Cuda
powered by a 426/425hp Hemi engine, with a 4 speed pistol grip
transmission and Dana rear-end that I sold the above for to purchase
and then got drafted prior to purchasing.  Oh, I don't give a rats a.s
about it's color either.

Think my dream(s) will ever come true as a poor working Joe?

Signature

"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Backyard Mechanic - 22 Mar 2006 14:39 GMT
Scrape off all the needs vs wants and "would'a should'a could'a"

Just WHAT is wrong with Ford setting a price and dealers, putting a premium
on it?
 If the price is too high, no one will buy.  

It might aggravate you... but what would you change?  Suppose you've built
a really exceptional car, and you list it for sale...And some chump comes
around waving a Hemmings or KBB and tells you he wants the car but you're
asking way too much.

Bitching because a dealer will hold out for more money, while you'd have no
problem doing the same just seems.... well... silly and self-centered.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Brent P - 22 Mar 2006 15:39 GMT
> Just WHAT is wrong with Ford setting a price and dealers, putting a premium
> on it?  If the price is too high, no one will buy.  

You are neglecting the role ford's marketing decisions play in that
dynamic.  

> Bitching because a dealer will hold out for more money, while you'd have no
> problem doing the same just seems.... well... silly and self-centered.

It's clear you don't understand.  go read the posts over again.


Zombywoof - 22 Mar 2006 22:13 GMT
>Scrape off all the needs vs wants and "would'a should'a could'a"
>
>Just WHAT is wrong with Ford setting a price and dealers, putting a premium
>on it?
>  If the price is too high, no one will buy.  

Someone will always buy.  There are way more fools with money who just
don't care then enthusiasts who do.

>It might aggravate you... but what would you change?  Suppose you've built
>a really exceptional car, and you list it for sale...And some chump comes
>around waving a Hemmings or KBB and tells you he wants the car but you're
>asking way too much.

What if it aggravates me to the point where I no longer by any
Ford/Lincoln or Mercury products and throw in Jags just for good
measure?  Oh & tell those whom I have influence over to do the same?

>Bitching because a dealer will hold out for more money, while you'd have no
>problem doing the same just seems.... well... silly and self-centered.

If I was manufacturing a product to sell at a certain price point to
my consumers and my retail dealers were hosing said customers I just
might have quite a bit to say, like no more for you.
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US Special Forces soldier, a Reuters News agent asked
the soldier what he felt when sniping members of Al Quaeda
in Afghanistan.

The soldier shrugged and replied, "Recoil." (Possible Urban Legend)

Michael Seeley - 23 Mar 2006 14:31 GMT
Would love to trade in the 03 for a new one but if ford is going to jack up
the price to the vette, I'll try that. I own aford and GM and neither have
given me a problem.

> Scrape off all the needs vs wants and "would'a should'a could'a"
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> no
> problem doing the same just seems.... well... silly and self-centered.
Backyard Mechanic - 23 Mar 2006 18:39 GMT
Exactly!  That's how it's supposed to work.

> Would love to trade in the 03 for a new one but if ford is going to
> jack up the price to the vette, I'll try that. I own aford and GM and
> neither have given me a problem.

>>  If the price is too high, no one will buy.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, remembering when they sold Renaults in the
US.. both times.  
Moral:  There's a fool born for every car made under the sun.  
And that also explains why there's still Marxists...

Ritz - 23 Mar 2006 18:48 GMT
Yup, it's a free market.  While I think Ford is being foolish and Ford
corporate would make more money by increasing units sold (and deprive
the stealers of a price gouging opportunity) that is the nature of a
free market.  If consumers don't like the prices, they are free to buy
from another manufacturer.  I can only surmise this is a bone they're
throwing at the stealers in exchange for lower margins on other vehicles
or some other quid pro quo.

Cheers,

> Exactly!  That's how it's supposed to work.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>>>  If the price is too high, no one will buy.
dwight - 24 Mar 2006 13:35 GMT
> You may be willing to play ford's game and may not like that I am not
> willing to. But as I follow this stuff online, fewer and fewer people
> are willing to do so. Ford will be gutting their most loyal customer base
> if they persist in this direction.

Odd.

I'm of the impression that Ford will sell every Mustang it builds, and
certainly every GT500.

And I read a bit, too.

dwight
Brent P - 24 Mar 2006 14:34 GMT
> I'm of the impression that Ford will sell every Mustang it builds, and
> certainly every GT500.

That's a given when supply purposely constricted.

Did you have a point?
Zombywoof - 24 Mar 2006 23:32 GMT
>> You may be willing to play ford's game and may not like that I am not
>> willing to. But as I follow this stuff online, fewer and fewer people
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>I'm of the impression that Ford will sell every Mustang it builds, and
>certainly every GT500.

More then likely you are correct.  However, I highly suspect the price
point will vary from dealer to dealer and time of year as well.  Ford
about damn near hung themselves with 2004's as many were sitting on
local lots wayyyy into 2005.  Even Mach 1's.

>And I read a bit, too.

I dabble in the art myself.
>dwight

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"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

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(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

dwight - 25 Mar 2006 15:06 GMT
>>> You may be willing to play ford's game and may not like that I am not
>>> willing to. But as I follow this stuff online, fewer and fewer people
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> about damn near hung themselves with 2004's as many were sitting on
> local lots wayyyy into 2005.  Even Mach 1's.

D'ya suppose that had anything to do with the soon-to-be-released redesign?
After all, if it's June and I'm trying to decide whether to buy a 2004 or
wait four months for the all-new much-better 2005, I might have left that
2004 on the lot, too.

dwight
Zombywoof - 25 Mar 2006 20:43 GMT
>>>> You may be willing to play ford's game and may not like that I am not
>>>> willing to. But as I follow this stuff online, fewer and fewer people
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>dwight

Of course it does, and it happens more & more every year as the design
gets older and suspected new toys are added to the next model years
version.
Signature


"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

351CJ - 24 Mar 2006 03:11 GMT
>>>> I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> <plonk>

Do you actually have a point?  Or are you just intent on stirring sh.t?

If you don't mind being screwed by Ford Motor Company and its sleazy dealer
network, could you please do that in PRIVATE and stay out of more
enlightened shoppers conversations???

Oh, and if you are going to infer that you are <plonking> someone, please
stop replying to them, cause that makes you look really stupid...
Ritz - 24 Mar 2006 13:35 GMT
>>>>> I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.
>>>> Dude, get over it already.  Buy a stock '05 GT, buy a supercharger, buy
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Do you actually have a point?  Or are you just intent on stirring sh.t?

My point is that if you don't like what Ford is doing, then by all means
you should vote with your feet.

I offered a suggestion for getting Shelby-like performance at a lower
price point if he wanted a Mustang, but didn't want to pay the "Shelby tax."

I opined that constantly whining here about Ford's marketing choices in
this forum was a waste of time and tiresome...and his efforts would be
better spent lobbying Ford itself where it might have a minuscule amount
of impact vs the zero impact of doing it here....over and over and over
and over...

Cheers,
Zombywoof - 24 Mar 2006 23:30 GMT
>>>>>> I feel my interest in the GT500 slipping away very fast.
>>>>> Dude, get over it already.  Buy a stock '05 GT, buy a supercharger, buy
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>My point is that if you don't like what Ford is doing, then by all means
>you should vote with your feet.

Or wallet/pocketbook as the case maybe.

>I offered a suggestion for getting Shelby-like performance at a lower
>price point if he wanted a Mustang, but didn't want to pay the "Shelby tax."

All sorts of different ways of doing that with all sorts of
configurations from many different manufacturers.  However, if one is
a label whore that just won't do now will it?

>I opined that constantly whining here about Ford's marketing choices in
>this forum was a waste of time and tiresome...and his efforts would be
>better spent lobbying Ford itself where it might have a minuscule amount
>of impact vs the zero impact of doing it here....over and over and over
>and over...

A waste of time for whom?  Those or are able to vent, lament or even
commiserate?  Or those who are bothered by what they read?  Usenet has
an on/off switch just like the TV & Radio.  Don't like what's on?
Change the channel.  Nothing worse then whining about the whiners in
my book.

Then again there is always the infamous kill file to be deployed.

>Cheers,

Bottoms up!
Signature


"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

ZombyWoof
(take the dogs when replying via e-mail)

Brent P - 25 Mar 2006 00:46 GMT
>>I offered a suggestion for getting Shelby-like performance at a lower
>>price point if he wanted a Mustang, but didn't want to pay the "Shelby tax."
>>
> All sorts of different ways of doing that with all sorts of
> configurations from many different manufacturers.  However, if one is
> a label whore that just won't do now will it?

I don't care if they call it a cougar or the S197 or whatever name they
want to give it.

I don't have the desire to buy a new car and then have it pieces for
months at a time as engineering project. I don't have the time and desire
to be dealing with machine shops and vendors and this and that and piecing
together a new car that I can't drive because it's a friggin' engineering
project. And that's just if things go more or less smoothly. Not to
asplode an engine because something was little off, or one of the stock
parts that would have been fine in stock trim gives up the ghost because
of some slight defect or tolerance issue that rears it's ugly head in
modification.  

It's much more cost effective to pay for a finished product from a
manufacturer, both in time, money, and reliability.

They could name the car 'turd' for all I care.

> Then again there is always the infamous kill file to be deployed.

Which is what I use when people make it clear they are trolling.
 
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