 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / May 2006Dodge Challenger: A Go For 2008.5!
Employees from DamilerChrysler supplier, Collins & Aikman told NewAgeMuscleCars.com today that they are working on engineering certain components for the upcoming production version of the Dodge Challenger. Even though Chrysler has said that the decision to build the Challenger will not be announed until later this year, Chrysler group's top marketing boss, Joe Eberhart said that they are "comfortable now that we have found a formula where we think we can sustain" a production run of more than one year. According to sources at Collins & Aikman though, the green light has already been given for the Challenger and they are working as a supplier to bring the iconic nameplate back for the 2008.5 model year. Ironically, the Challenger's 2008.5 production target falls on the 40th anniversary of the 1968.5 Shelby GT500KR, which may itself return as a 2008.5 model. The 2006 Dodge Challenger concept is powered by a 425 horepower 6.1L Hemi engine, which falls short of the 2007 Shelby Mustang GT500's whopping 500 horsepower. The 2007 Shelby GT500 concept's engine was rated at 475 horsepower. For more information on the Dodge Challenger, check out LXForums.com. --- Patrick > Employees from DamilerChrysler supplier, Collins & Aikman told > NewAgeMuscleCars.com today that they are working on engineering certain [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > we have found a formula where we think we can sustain" a production run > of more than one year. "NO German Engineering, NO Swiss Innovation, ALL American Kick-a.s" http://www.neandernews.com/?p=332  SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! Current powerplants in the LX chassis are the 340-hp 5.7L HEMI and the SRT 425-hp 6.1L HEMI. I don't know if Dodge has any plans to chase the Mustang or not, but these motors are from 2005, so they might see a bump in power by the 2009 model year. We'll see. There's no denying that we all benefit from horsepower wars! Did the original GT500KR get more power than the GT500? Thanks, Scott > The 2006 Dodge Challenger concept is powered by a > 425 horepower 6.1L Hemi engine, which falls short > of the 2007 Shelby Mustang GT500's whopping 500 > horsepower. The 2007 Shelby GT500 concept's engine > was rated at 475 horsepower. > Current powerplants in the LX chassis are the 340-hp 5.7L HEMI and the SRT > 425-hp 6.1L HEMI. I don't know if Dodge has any plans to chase the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks, > Scott More than the currently officially rated 500 horsepower? a.. Ford Shelby GT500 officially rated at 500 horsepower, 25 horsepower higher than preliminary estimates a.. The Shelby GT500 will go on sale this summer with more horsepower than any previous factory-built Mustang http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=23327 > > The 2006 Dodge Challenger concept is powered by a > > 425 horepower 6.1L Hemi engine, which falls short > > of the 2007 Shelby Mustang GT500's whopping 500 > > horsepower. The 2007 Shelby GT500 concept's engine > > was rated at 475 horsepower. I guess I should have mentioned that I was talking about the original GT500, too. I believe the GT500KR replaced the GT500, in 1968?, but I was curious if they bumped up the power along with it? I guess that has little to do with a new Challenger thread, so I will just research it online or start another thread if I really want to know. ;) Thanks, Scott >> Current powerplants in the LX chassis are the 340-hp 5.7L HEMI >> and the SRT 425-hp 6.1L HEMI. I don't know if Dodge has any [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>> horsepower. The 2007 Shelby GT500 concept's engine >>> was rated at 475 horsepower. NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1147833228.361592.116380 @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: > Employees from DamilerChrysler supplier, Collins & Aikman told > NewAgeMuscleCars.com today that they are working on engineering certain [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Patrick Why the comparison between a standard production vehicle and a limited- production specialty vehicle costing tens of thousands more? It couldn't be that Ford has nothing available to compete except the mythical GT500, could it? Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC The media will compare anything that brings in readers. If the Challenger was produced right now, it would get a 340-hp 5.7 (R/T) and a 6.1 425-hp (SRT8). Assuming it's still destined for production, I imagine the engine options are still unknown. As far as I know, they are coming out with a new platform (LY), so perhaps they will revamp the output of their HEMI motors, too. Thanks, Scott > Why the comparison between a standard production vehicle > and a limited-production specialty vehicle costing tens > of thousands more? It couldn't be that Ford has nothing > available to compete except the mythical GT500, could it? Right. The Challenger is basically old news at this point; I was just wondering why Patrick posted the ridiculous comparo. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC Scott Moseman <scmoseman@gmail.com> wrote in news:QvJag.41831$CH2.24409 @tornado.texas.rr.com: > The media will compare anything that brings in readers. If the > Challenger was produced right now, it would get a 340-hp 5.7 (R/T) and a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > of thousands more? It couldn't be that Ford has nothing > > available to compete except the mythical GT500, could it? > Right. The Challenger is basically old news at this point; I was just > wondering why Patrick posted the ridiculous comparo. Because up until this point in time the Challenger was only a show car. Now it seems the decision has finally been made to put it into production. Patrick > Scott Moseman <scmoseman@gmail.com> wrote in news:QvJag.41831$CH2.24409 > @tornado.texas.rr.com: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > of thousands more? It couldn't be that Ford has nothing > > > available to compete except the mythical GT500, could it? NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148006018.598062.225590 @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: >> Right. The Challenger is basically old news at this point; I was just >> wondering why Patrick posted the ridiculous comparo. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Patrick Everything I've read on the Challenger indicated that it was always destined for standard production, whereas the GT500 was always hyped as limited production. The Challenger's drivetrain is right out of the current parts bin. To compare the Challenger to a GT500 is simply apples and oranges. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148006018.598062.225590 > @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: > >> Right. The Challenger is basically old news at this point; I was > > >just wondering why Patrick posted the ridiculous comparo. > > Because up until this point in time the Challenger was only a show > > car. > > Now it seems the decision has finally been made to put it into > > production. > Everything I've read on the Challenger indicated that it was always > destined for standard production, whereas the GT500 was always hyped as > limited production. The Challenger's drivetrain is right out of the > current parts bin. To compare the Challenger to a GT500 is simply > apples and oranges. Joe, Going by what we know now there'll be about 9,000 GT500s built. I think that's about on par with previous year Cobras. Is that "limited"? At this point we don't know what DC's marketing strategy will be for the Challenger, if they even build it. But let just say they do green light it. Do you think there'll be a market for more than 9,000 6.1 liter, 425 HP Challengers? (Especially with an LS2 Camaro likely debuting at the same time) Especially knowing that the other SRT LX sedans run about $40Gs? Me... I'll guess and say the GT500 and 6.1-liter Challenger will likely be apples and apples. Patrick NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148091422.470001.186190 @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: >> NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148006018.598062.225590 >> @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > think that's about on par with previous year Cobras. Is that > "limited"? Compared with standard production cars, absolutely. And I seriously doubt that 9000 GT500s will be built. I simply don't believe Ford's hype. They've changed their tune so often that I'm sure they'll change it again. > At this point we don't know what DC's marketing strategy will be for > the Challenger, if they even build it. But let just say they do green [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Patrick I think the Challenger will be offered in several stages just like the Charger, Magnum, and Mustang. The base Challenger will compete with the base Mustang, and the 6.1 Challenger will compete with the Mustang GT and the Camaro if it's ever produced. At this point, I don't see that DC has anything to compete with the GT500 per se. But I don't see that any maker needs to compete with the GT500 as it'll be such a one-off that it'll be a non-issue. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148091422.470001.186190 > @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > hype. They've changed their tune so often that I'm sure they'll change > it again. I'm with you Joe. Ford has said so many things about the GT500's production quantity that no one knows what they will do. One thing I can count on is that they will do whatever puts the most profit in their pockets. If that means 9,000 cars get built then it will happen. It that means 3,000 cars get built then that will happen. If they don't keep production at a volume that keeps the price near the MSRP they have touted since last summer then there is a good chance I will spend my money with another manufacturer. They are not going to gouge me. Especially when there are so many great cars in the $50k-$65k price range. >> At this point we don't know what DC's marketing strategy will be for >> the Challenger, if they even build it. But let just say they do green [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > base Mustang, and the 6.1 Challenger will compete with the Mustang GT > and the Camaro if it's ever produced. A Challenger convertible would definitely get a hard look from me. Too bad its production date is so far off. It was one of the best looking cars at the DC Auto show this year IMO. > At this point, I don't see that DC has anything to compete with the > GT500 per se. But I don't see that any maker needs to compete with the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >> NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148091422.470001.186190 >> @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > gouge me. Especially when there are so many great cars in the > $50k-$65k price range. Best point of the whole thread. Money talks, hype walks. >>> At this point we don't know what DC's marketing strategy will be >>> for [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Too bad its production date is so far off. It was one of the best > looking cars at the DC Auto show this year IMO. We never got to see the Challenger in person down here, as it was MIA at both the Miami Beach and Ft. Lauderdale shows. But a convertible 'anything' is a good thing IMO. Especially down here. :) >> At this point, I don't see that DC has anything to compete with the >> GT500 per se. But I don't see that any maker needs to compete with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>><snip> >> I'm with you Joe. Ford has said so many things about the GT500's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> gouge me. Especially when there are so many great cars in the >> $50k-$65k price range. > Best point of the whole thread. Money talks, hype walks. Between Ford's and the Dealer's greed it will be a miracle if any of these cars are sold for MSRP. It's not the greed that gets to me as much as Ford hyping a $40k-$45k price for the coupe and verts for the last year. If they are going to advertise that number then they should make it happen and they wonder why Toyota is kicking their a.s. It is sh.t like they are pulling now that alienates their loyal customers and makes them look elsewhere. >>>> At this point we don't know what DC's marketing strategy will be >>>> for [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > both the Miami Beach and Ft. Lauderdale shows. But a convertible > 'anything' is a good thing IMO. Especially down here. :) The Challenger was one of the few cars I have seen that looked great from every viewing angle. I think it would make a great looking convertible. >>> At this point, I don't see that DC has anything to compete with the >>> GT500 per se. But I don't see that any maker needs to compete with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies >>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>>><snip> >>> I'm with you Joe. Ford has said so many things about the GT500's [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > It is sh.t like they are pulling now that alienates their loyal > customers and makes them look elsewhere. Michael, you said what I was thinking much better than I could've said it. >>>>> At this point we don't know what DC's marketing strategy will be >>>>> for [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > from every viewing angle. I think it would make a great looking > convertible. Can't wait to see mock-ups. > NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1147833228.361592.116380 > @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC The real question is who is producing what and who is just talking about it... You don't think Ford can drop a comparable engine into the Mustang GT three years from now, to compete with the Germans as yet imaginary, and underpowered Challenger? >> NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1147833228.361592.116380 >> @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > The real question is who is producing what and who is just talking > about it... Well, let's see. Ford is yapping about all kinds of non-existent products in dreamland while they're selling a 300hp 4.6. DC isn't talking much but selling a 425hp 6.1. I think that answers the "real" question. > You don't think Ford can drop a comparable engine into the Mustang GT > three years from now, to compete with the Germans as yet imaginary, > and underpowered Challenger? Considering that Ford has absolutely nothing to compete with either of the Hemis, that's a pretty funny question. As for the future, who really knows? However, if history is any indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar short. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > However, if history is any > indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar > short. In the CONTEXT of this discussion and considering that Chrysler is only marketing retro NAMES, not looks*, and the fact that the Challenger is 2 years away, I find that AMUSING. *Unless you find the PT Cruiser attractive.. or maybe the roadster whatsitsname.. SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! >> However, if history is any >> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > *Unless you find the PT Cruiser attractive.. or maybe the roadster > whatsitsname.. Don't know what rock you're living under, but DC is SELLING Hemi cars like hotcakes right now. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>> However, if history is any >>> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Don't know what rock you're living under, but DC is SELLING Hemi cars > like hotcakes right now. Jaysys!!!!! I know it... my son drives one. But the package, to my somewhat dated tasts.. DOES count and DC's SUX! I'm talking STYLING!!!! And, a certain percentage of muscle freaks, aside.... Son likes the styling, I murmur pleasantries so as not to offend. SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! >>>> However, if history is any >>>> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Jaysys!!!!! I know it... my son drives one. But the package, to my > somewhat dated tasts.. DOES count and DC's SUX! Some packages are definitely better than others. ;) > I'm talking STYLING!!!! And, a certain percentage of muscle freaks, > aside.... Son likes the styling, I murmur pleasantries so as not to > offend. As for pure styling, the Mustang wins hands down IMO except for its fat a.s. Of the Hemi cars, the Charger's the best, but I don't consider it a direct competitor to the Mustang. If/when DC comes out with the Challenger (or something around the size of the Mustang), then we'll talk. Of course, who knows what the Mustang will look like by then... Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > Of the Hemi cars, the Charger's the best Joe, I think you and me are the only ones who like the looks of the Charger. Patrick >> Of the Hemi cars, the Charger's the best > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Patrick I wouldn't kick it out of the garage for eating crackers. SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. > > Of the Hemi cars, the Charger's the best > > Joe, > > I think you and me are the only ones who like the looks of the Charger. Different Joe here... but I will say it looks better than the 300. That's damning with *damn* faint praise. SignatureJoseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148095125.951456.110750 @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: >> Of the Hemi cars, the Charger's the best > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Patrick I don't like the Daytona with the flat black hood and the big stripe, but I saw an all-black SRT a couple weeks ago that was just awesome. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > I don't like the Daytona with the flat black hood and the big stripe, Speaking of which, the thing that hits my gag reflex is the Dodge trucks with that stripe and big rear wing. That has to be one of the ugliest/dumbest factory dress-up packages in history. And the sad thing is I see a bunch of trucks running around with that crap on them. Patrick NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148160646.592004.178260 @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: >> I don't like the Daytona with the flat black hood and the big stripe, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Patrick Patrick, you got that right. But from a marketing standpoint, it's great. Throw a couple hundred dollars' worth of paint and plastic on, and charge the consumer double what it cost. Ugly stuff, but if it gives DC more money to put towards performance stuff, it's a good thing. BTW, very glad you got home safe. Forgot to mention it earlier. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC What about the fake hood scoop? Fake scoops are sad. Thanks, Scott >> I don't like the Daytona with the flat black hood >> and the big stripe, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Patrick Yeah, they're bogus. Didn't Ford put one on a Mustang recently? ;) Scott Moseman <scmoseman@gmail.com> wrote in news:OlOdg.66125$CH2.19133 @tornado.texas.rr.com: > What about the fake hood scoop? Fake scoops are sad. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > > Patrick >>> However, if history is any >>> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Don't know what rock you're living under, but DC is SELLING Hemi cars >like hotcakes right now. Rebates & incentives on all but Hemi & SRT8 models pretty much reinforces that. However, it is a very niche marketplace very easily saturated. When we get Hybrids 0-60 times down to sub 6 seconds we might be on to something. :) SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. >>> However, if history is any >>> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC Yes that is true, lots of people like the idea of driving a German car with a Hemi (in name only) engine assembled in Mexico. They can have at it, I'll pass. If I were going to drive a German companies car, it wouldn't be Daimler Chrysler Mexican powered red headed step child... >>>> However, if history is any >>>> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >pass. If I were going to drive a German companies car, it wouldn't be >Daimler Chrysler Mexican powered red headed step child... Juciy Lucy and her trained Hila-monster? SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. >>>>> However, if history is any >>>>> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> > Juciy Lucy and her trained Hila-monster? A while ago I read somewhere that the Russians (or was it the Chinese?) are going to sell cars here in the U.S. Don't remember any details though.. <snip> >> Juciy Lucy and her trained Hila-monster? > >A while ago I read somewhere that the Russians (or was it the Chinese?) >are going to sell cars here in the U.S. Don't remember any details >though.. I have no idea what you might have read, but I did read that somebody had submitted a Chinese brand, Cherry, for Federal testing. SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. > <snip> >>> Juciy Lucy and her trained Hila-monster? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I have no idea what you might have read, but I did read that somebody > had submitted a Chinese brand, Cherry, for Federal testing. I spend a fair amount of time in China and have been in a few Cherry taxis. No manufacturers (not even the Koreans...well, maybe the Yugoslavs) have anything to worry about from Cherry. Think Yugo quality with early Hyundai fit/finish/styling.... >> <snip> >>>> Juciy Lucy and her trained Hila-monster? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Think Yugo quality with early Hyundai fit/finish/styling.... Yowzers. I spent quite a bit of time in Korea in their domestic Hyundai's (Taxi's & Rentals) prior to them coming to the states. They had one domestic model that was sort of like an old Acura Legend. They never imported that one, which wasn't to bad. When I got back to the States in around `89, I went to check what they were importing and was sorely disappointed on the overall fit & finish. There is only so much styling one can do with an econobox. The one I was looking had the interior rearview mirror come off in my hand as I was adjusting it on the lot. I've never looked at another Hyundai again. Usually Korea kept the lower quality merchandise for their domestic market and exported the higher quality, I guess this wasn't one of those cases. SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. > Yes that is true, lots of people like the idea of driving a German car with > a Hemi (in name only) engine assembled in Mexico. They can have at it, I'll > pass. If I were going to drive a German companies car, it wouldn't be > Daimler Chrysler Mexican powered red headed step child... So is your beef with the fact that the engines are assembled in Mexico, or that Diamler-Chrysler is a German company, or??? The 5.7 and 6.1L "hemi" engines make quite a bit of power and torque, get reasonable mileage (for what they are) and seem reliable. I've actually been looking at buying an SRT-8 Charger with the 6.1L engine. They're a bit hard to come by (but a walk in the park compared to anything in that power range produced by Ford), but not impossible. The street price is in the low-40's once you've got it optioned up. So yes, that's $15k more than a vanilla Mustang GT. The only stock Mustang that will run with that car is the new GT500 and you can bet your a.s that you won't be getting into one of those for anything close to MSRP...which probably makes it $15K MORE than the Charger SRT-8. I haven't seen pricing for the Challenger (or even any convincing evidence that it will even see production) so I used the Charger as a real world, "you can buy one today" example. Cheers, >> Yes that is true, lots of people like the idea of driving a German car >> with [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Cheers, My $.02.. My "beef' with the Charger is that it looks like something out of a bad Dick Tracy comic book.. Whoever the Design Engineer was, they need to find another line of work.. The Challenger concept car is what the Charger should have been... I do hope it makes it to the production line.. Yep, The top of the line Charger is faster than most.. but how many times you gonna test that? It's all in the matter of what you are looking for in a car.. For me, it is styling, and plenty of power.. The Mustang GT has both.. The Charger is loaded on Power, but is defintely lacking in the style department.. imho.. To each his own.. For me, I will stick with my '06, GT Ragtop.. Tony >>> Yes that is true, lots of people like the idea of driving a German car >>> with [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > another line of work.. The Challenger concept car is what the Charger > should have been... I do hope it makes it to the production line.. It's also a 4-door sedan (Charger) and not really in the same market segment as the Mustang. And, like everything else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. > Yep, The top of the line Charger is faster than most.. but how many times > you gonna test that? <George Patton> Every damn day! </George Patton> It's all in the matter of what you are looking for in > a car.. For me, it is styling, and plenty of power.. The Mustang GT has > both.. The Charger is loaded on Power, but is defintely lacking in the > style department.. imho.. I like the Mustang styling too. It looks fantastic. However, the stock engine just doesn't interest me at all. To get any useful power from the Mustang without modding it yourself, you're looking at a GT500 (which is a beautiful car), but the Ford dealer gouge machine will insure that people pay a hefty premium for the *privilege* of buying one. So the Mustang definitely wins on the styling front. Then there's that pesky issue of occasionally having to haul around kids or other passengers. The extra pair of doors in the Charger is nice. Having a place to put your knees is also very nice. The back seat in the Mustang is not quite as big a joke as in the Beetle, but it's not far behind. The only thing I'll miss in the Charger (sniff sniff) is the lack of a manual transmission. That's what's kept me glued to my twin turbo A6 for so long...comfy...manual trans...lots of power...(and a bonus of AWD). > To each his own.. For me, I will stick with my '06, GT Ragtop.. Not a bad choice if you like to mod your engine and you don't need to cart passengers around. It certainly looks purty. Cheers, > >> NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1147833228.361592.116380 > >> @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: > >>> Employees from DamilerChrysler supplier, Collins & Aikman told > >>> NewAgeMuscleCars.com today that they are working on engineering [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >> run > >>> of more than one year. > >>> According to sources at Collins & Aikman though, the green light has > >>> already been given for the Challenger and they are working as a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >>> anniversary of the 1968.5 Shelby GT500KR, which may itself return as > >>> a 2008.5 model. > >>> The 2006 Dodge Challenger concept is powered by a 425 horepower 6.1L > >>> Hemi engine, which falls short of the 2007 Shelby Mustang GT500's > >>> whopping 500 horsepower. The 2007 Shelby GT500 concept's engine was > >>> rated at 475 horsepower. > >>> For more information on the Dodge Challenger, check out > >>> LXForums.com. --- > >>> Patrick > >> Why the comparison between a standard production vehicle and a > >> limited- production specialty vehicle costing tens of thousands more? > >> It couldn't be that Ford has nothing available to compete except the > >> mythical GT500, could it? > >> Joe > >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies > >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > > The real question is who is producing what and who is just talking > > about it... > Well, let's see. Ford is yapping about all kinds of non-existent > products in dreamland while they're selling a 300hp 4.6. You forgot to add, that out runs any of the standard Hemi cars. >DC isn't talking much but selling a 425hp 6.1. And which sells for about $15K more than the Mustang GT. > I think that answers the "real" question. Well, now it does. > > You don't think Ford can drop a comparable engine into the Mustang GT > > three years from now, to compete with the Germans as yet imaginary, > > and underpowered Challenger? > Considering that Ford has absolutely nothing to compete with either of > the Hemis, that's a pretty funny question. Please note: Ford's 6.2 liter "Hurricane" V8 is slated for production. > As for the future, who really knows? However, if history is any > indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar > short. Yep, and that's why Mustang has remained in production all these years and the Challenger and Camaro are returning after a number of years of being on hiatus. I say let's wait until '08 to see who has the best performance product for the $$$s. Patrick <snip> >I say let's wait until '08 to see who has the best performance product >for the $$$s. By 08/09 gas maybe $5.00 a gallon and both GM & Ford bankrupt. SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1148006613.020643.309740 @g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: >> >> NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1147833228.361592.116380 >> >> @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > You forgot to add, that out runs any of the standard Hemi cars. The Charger SRT8 will easily go up against any Mustang GT. >>DC isn't talking much but selling a 425hp 6.1. > > And which sells for about $15K more than the Mustang GT. Because it's $15k more car than the Mustang GT. >> I think that answers the "real" question. > > Well, now it does. DC's Hemi cars are all bigger, heavier, and more powerful than the Mustang GT. In truth, the Mustang GT and Hemi cars are in different categories. My point here is that Ford's standard production engine offerings are lame. Ford needs a 400-hp naturally aspirated production motor, while DC needs a smaller, lighter car for its Hemi. That's the _real_ story. >> > You don't think Ford can drop a comparable engine into the Mustang GT >> > three years from now, to compete with the Germans as yet imaginary, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Please note: Ford's 6.2 liter "Hurricane" V8 is slated for production. Please note: Ford has traditionally teased the buying public with such tall tales. >> As for the future, who really knows? However, if history is any >> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and the Challenger and Camaro are returning after a number of years of > being on hiatus. No real point there. But as long as you're talking about heritage and whatnot, let's mention the anemic Mustang II and the almost-produced FWD Mustang that turned into the Probe but for public outcry. > I say let's wait until '08 to see who has the best performance product > for the $$$s. > > Patrick We can wait, but what's the point? Right now, the Mustang GT stands alone as there's no real competition, and it's a great car to boot. I simply think that Ford has become the Boy Who Cried Wolf at this point. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC <snip> >We can wait, but what's the point? Right now, the Mustang GT stands alone >as there's no real competition, and it's a great car to boot. I simply >think that Ford has become the Boy Who Cried Wolf at this point. Without a doubt Ford caught all of its competitors with their collective panties down. Not for the first time either. What is really different this time around is no other domestic maker has an available stop-gap production model they can throw into the fray like in the sixties until they can come out with their own "clean sheet of paper" version. Look at what happened the first time around with what DC used to be & Ford. By the time the Challenger hit the marketplace the tide had already begun to turn because of federal regulation and fuel prices. Anyone else see a Déjà Vue scenario getting ready to play out? SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in the sixties until they can come out with their own "clean sheet of > paper" version. True, but other makers have cars that Ford just can't compete against. The 300/Magnum/Charger platform runs rings around the CV, for example. I read that police departments are now trading in their CVs for Hemi- powered Chargers. > Look at what happened the first time around with what > DC used to be & Ford. By the time the Challenger hit the marketplace > the tide had already begun to turn because of federal regulation and > fuel prices. Anyone else see a Déjà Vue scenario getting ready to > play out? Personally, I think that gas will average out somewhere between $3 and $4 per gallon, and after people get used to that, it's SSDD. Lots of Americans will always want bigger, more powerful cars and they'll simply pay for them. >> <snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >Americans will always want bigger, more powerful cars and they'll simply >pay for them. No more then the first time around. Even though they are production cars, the biggest ballseyist of the bunch, such as the SRT8 options of different sheet metal setups, the ZO6, the GT500 & so forth are still really low # niche models. While the vehicles can be purchased they aren't purchased in anywhere the numbers of their more anemic powered brothers & sisters. According to one article I read gas prices when normalized out for inflation are actually "cheaper" then they used to be. Wages have risen far faster then gas costs. What neither you or I can ever predict is what will happen in the Federal legislation arena. Only two more years before the Democrats come roaring back into power with a mighty vengeance. Any new car that might have been in my future in 08/09 will probably be taxed right out from underneath me. SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. > >> > The real question is who is producing what and who is just talking > >> > about it... > >> Well, let's see. Ford is yapping about all kinds of non-existent > >> products in dreamland while they're selling a 300hp 4.6. > > You forgot to add, that out runs any of the standard Hemi cars. > The Charger SRT8 will easily go up against any Mustang GT. They better, seeing they run an extra $15K more. But then know with just a chip and a little weight loss, Hot Rod magazine got a Mustang GT running 108 mph traps -- enough to run with the SRT8. > >>DC isn't talking much but selling a 425hp 6.1. > > And which sells for about $15K more than the Mustang GT. > Because it's $15k more car than the Mustang GT. Hey, I hope DC sells a ton of them!! But for the average Joe 6-pack in the market for a hot new car, a $40K SRT-8 is likely just a fantasy. So instead he'll end up tossing down his hard-earned green for the cheaper $25K Mustang GT. In this reality, Ford is doing more for the common guy, so should you really be that hard on the Blue Oval? > >> I think that answers the "real" question. > > Well, now it does. > DC's Hemi cars are all bigger, heavier, and more powerful than the Mustang > GT. In truth, the Mustang GT and Hemi cars are in different categories. Mostly, yeah. But I'm sure a few find the extra dollars/and need for a standard $30K hemi four-door. > My point here is that Ford's standard production engine offerings are > lame. I'm not going to argue against more horsepower from the factory, but that little 3-valve kicks pretty good, especially for only $25K. And really kicks knowing a few simply mods can it can gallop! > Ford needs a 400-hp naturally aspirated production motor, while DC > needs a smaller, lighter car for its Hemi. That's the _real_ story. My fear is the Challenger will end up being a 4,000 lb styling exercise. (Do we really want another SSR?) That pillarless top scares me! I say screw trying to make it look exactly like the original. I say instead build it right (nice and light) -- with a nice stiff hard top -- that's focused on performance. > >> > You don't think Ford can drop a comparable engine into the Mustang GT > >> > three years from now, to compete with the Germans as yet imaginary, > >> > and underpowered Challenger? > >> Considering that Ford has absolutely nothing to compete with either of > >> the Hemis, that's a pretty funny question. > > Please note: Ford's 6.2 liter "Hurricane" V8 is slated for production. > Please note: Ford has traditionally teased the buying public with such > tall tales. Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it. > >> As for the future, who really knows? However, if history is any > >> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar > >> short. > > Yep, and that's why Mustang has remained in production all these years > > and the Challenger and Camaro are returning after a number of years of > > being on hiatus. > No real point there. You got my point. C'mon, Joe, give the Blue Oval guys some credit. Like an athlete, Ford hasn't won them all but their track record shows they've been competitive more often than their Challengers, and have given their arch rival Camaro fits, if not on the test track at least in the showroom. > But as long as you're talking about heritage and > whatnot, let's mention the anemic Mustang II and the almost-produced FWD > Mustang that turned into the Probe but for public outcry. That's okay. You can criticize anything in that era -- the two-ton Vettes and Firebirds, the wheezing Camaros, or the non-existant Mopar pony cars. As for almost-produced FWD Mustang, let's focus on the "almost" produced part. As in never produced. Ford listened and then got in right, well mostly. But then Ford has never done the Mustang perfect. > > I say let's wait until '08 to see who has the best performance product > > for the $$$s. > We can wait, but what's the point? Right now, the Mustang GT stands alone > as there's no real competition, and it's a great car to boot. I simply > think that Ford has become the Boy Who Cried Wolf at this point. I don't follow. But anyways, look at what Ford has out there right now. You can pick up a used '93-'01 Cobra. Or a supercharged '03-'04 Teminator. There's the Bullit cars. The '03-'04 Mach 1s. The '05s will soon hit the used car market. And then there's the new Hertz cars that will be available in a few years. It's a good time to be a Mustang enthusiast! Patrick >> >> > The real question is who is producing what and who is just >> >> > talking about it... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > just a chip and a little weight loss, Hot Rod magazine got a Mustang > GT running 108 mph traps -- enough to run with the SRT8. True, but that game can go on forever. A mod here, a mod there... >> >>DC isn't talking much but selling a 425hp 6.1. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > reality, Ford is doing more for the common guy, so should you really > be that hard on the Blue Oval? What you just said is why I don't think the Charger competes with the Mustang. To generalize, the guy buying the Charger has a family, needs ample room for at least 4, but still wants that kick when he hits the gas. The guy buying the Mustang GT is younger, and doesn't care all that much about transporting 3 more people around in it. I'm not being hard on Ford for selling Mustangs; I love Mustangs and they are great cars. I'm dissing Ford because they have a tendency to yap about stuff that never materializes, and they keep switching gears as to what they're doing. >> >> I think that answers the "real" question. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Mostly, yeah. But I'm sure a few find the extra dollars/and need for > a standard $30K hemi four-door. See above. >> My point here is that Ford's standard production engine offerings are >> lame. > > I'm not going to argue against more horsepower from the factory, but > that little 3-valve kicks pretty good, especially for only $25K. And > really kicks knowing a few simply mods can it can gallop! The 4.6 is a damn good motor. I just think Ford needs something more at this point. They've got the potential, all they need to do is follow through. >> Ford needs a 400-hp naturally aspirated production motor, while DC >> needs a smaller, lighter car for its Hemi. That's the _real_ story. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > say instead build it right (nice and light) -- with a nice stiff hard > top -- that's focused on performance. Above all, I think the Challenger will perform. Sure, there's the mandate to mass-produce a car that looks like the concept, but I think DC is well aware that the car has to perform or it will die quickly. >> >> > You don't think Ford can drop a comparable engine into the >> >> > Mustang GT three years from now, to compete with the Germans as [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it. One can only hope. But there's nothing definite, so who really knows? Speaking of the truck side, Ford needs to get something happening quickly. This is where DC excelled - the Hemi runs everything from station wagons to trucks with no problems at all. And arguably, the Cummins TD pretty much rules the serious truck market. >> >> As for the future, who really knows? However, if history is any >> >> indication of things to come, Ford will be a day late and a dollar [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > arch rival Camaro fits, if not on the test track at least in the > showroom. I still love my LX, but like you I'm not brand loyal. Ford's got the low-end hipo market with the Mustang GT and DC has the higher-end with the 300C and the SRT cars. I just think that when the Mustang GT sees competition in a year or two, it had better have a bigger, more powerful engine ready to roll. >> But as long as you're talking about heritage and >> whatnot, let's mention the anemic Mustang II and the almost-produced [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Vettes and Firebirds, the wheezing Camaros, or the non-existant Mopar > pony cars. LOL! > As for almost-produced FWD Mustang, let's focus on the "almost" > produced part. As in never produced. Ford listened and then got in > right, well mostly. But then Ford has never done the Mustang perfect. To play devil's advocate, has any maker done any production car perfectly? Maybe Honda... ;) >> > I say let's wait until '08 to see who has the best performance >> > product for the $$$s. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I don't follow. Too much yapping and not enough product. They're always saying this, then saying that, then changing again. I don't know what to believe from those guys. Bad analogy, but it was the only thing I could think of at the time. > But anyways, look at what Ford has out there right now. You can pick > up a used '93-'01 Cobra. Or a supercharged '03-'04 Teminator. > There's the Bullit cars. The '03-'04 Mach 1s. The '05s will soon hit > the used car market. And then there's the new Hertz cars that will be > available in a few years. I take "out there now" to mean what's on the showroom floor now. Unfortunately, most of the cars you mentioned above are not made anymore. And some have not been made yet. > It's a good time to be a Mustang enthusiast! > > Patrick Agreed. It's a good time to be a horsepower enthusiast! Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC <snip> >What you just said is why I don't think the Charger competes with the >Mustang. To generalize, the guy buying the Charger has a family, needs >ample room for at least 4, but still wants that kick when he hits the >gas. The guy buying the Mustang GT is younger, and doesn't care all >that much about transporting 3 more people around in it. While I would normally agree with your generalization, that is not what I am seeing in practice around here. A lot of 50ish guys going for flashbacks in the new GT, and younger guys with families in the Chargers. There is even a couple of them parked over at the local HS. >I'm not being hard on Ford for selling Mustangs; I love Mustangs and >they are great cars. I'm dissing Ford because they have a tendency to >yap about stuff that never materializes, and they keep switching gears >as to what they're doing. Because it takes them so long to bring products to market that the market changes & they fallback & re-group. Ford is really struggling with cash flow issues domestically. SignatureFor choosing to fight, one gets the horrors of war,stress,and possibly death. For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation,humiliation,and possibly death. Choose your fights carefully. >> Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > station wagons to trucks with no problems at all. And arguably, the > Cummins TD pretty much rules the serious truck market. Rules? LMFAO Not on this planet, For 2005 Daimler Chrysler sold 95,171 Light trucks with diesel engines For 2005 GM sold 115,578 Light trucks with diesel engines For 2005 Ford sold 239,645 Light trucks with diesel engines GM moved the sales needle from less than 10% market share in newly sold HD trucks in 1999 to over 30% market share by 2002 after it replaced it's weak 6.5-liter diesel powerplant with the strong 6.6-liter Duramax. Almost all of this market share increase came from Dodge, the weakest player in the space with an engine/transmission combo that just doesn't measure up to superior Ford and GM diesel powertrains. http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/autoshows/naias2006/diesels/page1.html > Joe > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>> Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > For 2005 GM sold 115,578 Light trucks with diesel engines > For 2005 Ford sold 239,645 Light trucks with diesel engines Sales don't necessarily equal a better product. Possibly except for the new Duramax (which is made by Isuzu), the CTD is simply a better motor than other makers' offerings. > GM moved the sales needle from less than 10% market share in newly > sold HD trucks in 1999 to over 30% market share by 2002 after it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/autoshows/naias2006/diesels/page1.html Pretty funny, considering the same article mentions that Toyota is scrambling to put a Cummins in its Tundra. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>>> Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it. >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > new Duramax (which is made by Isuzu), the CTD is simply a better motor > than other makers' offerings. So what indicator would you use to back up your unfounded statement that "Cummins turbo diesels pretty much rules the serious truck market"? I fairly sure you can't produce numbers to back that statement up for class 3 trucks, certainly not class 4 or class 8. Just because you and Jethro like em, doesn't make them a better engine, and even if they were, they lose any edge because they reside behind the worst transmission in the worst pickup on the market. >> GM moved the sales needle from less than 10% market share in newly >> sold HD trucks in 1999 to over 30% market share by 2002 after it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Pretty funny, considering the same article mentions that Toyota is > scrambling to put a Cummins in its Tundra. For the same reason Daimler Chrysler uses them, they wouldn't even have a dog in the fight without Cummins. Sadist thing is the Cummins engine is the ONLY redeeming quality of their pickups. The same article mentions John Deere diesel engines? John Deere uses Yanmar diesel engines from Japan. BTW if Ford didn't have an IRON CLAD lock on the Navistar International engines, Toyota would try to get them just as quickly for the same reason they would pursue the Cummins. I'm sure they will ultimately make their own, and it will probably be more powerful and fuel efficient than any of the competitors anyway. The fact remains Daimler Chrysler pickups suck, even with the Cummins turbo diesels, they have been using Cummins engines since the early 90's, if they were ever going to "rule the serious truck market" they would have shown some signs of it by now... > Joe > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>>>> Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > they were, they lose any edge because they reside behind the worst > transmission in the worst pickup on the market. The hp/torque numbers are out there - go look them up yourself. The CTD bests everything but the new Isuszu. >>> GM moved the sales needle from less than 10% market share in newly >>> sold HD trucks in 1999 to over 30% market share by 2002 after it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> engine/transmission combo that just doesn't measure up to superior >>> Ford and GM diesel powertrains. http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/autoshows/naias2006/diesels/page1.htm >>> l >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > For the same reason Daimler Chrysler uses them, they wouldn't even > have a dog in the fight without Cummins. What's your point? The same holds true for the GM's Duramax which is a re-branded Isuzu. > Sadist thing is the Cummins Uh, the word is 'saddest'. > engine is the ONLY redeeming quality of their pickups. In your opinion. > The same > article mentions John Deere diesel engines? John Deere uses Yanmar > diesel engines from Japan. What's this got to do with the price of tea in China? > BTW if Ford didn't have an IRON CLAD lock > on the Navistar International engines, Toyota would try to get them > just as quickly for the same reason they would pursue the Cummins. In your opinion. > I'm sure they will ultimately make their own, and it will probably be > more powerful and fuel efficient than any of the competitors anyway. In your opinion. > The fact remains Daimler Chrysler pickups suck, In your opinion. > even with the Cummins > turbo diesels, they have been using Cummins engines since the early > 90's, if they were ever going to "rule the serious truck market" they > would have shown some signs of it by now... uh, ok. Whatever. LOL >>>>>> Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > The hp/torque numbers are out there - go look them up yourself. The CTD > bests everything but the new Isuszu. That changes every year. The Ford Powerstrokes, have more years of being on top in the pickup power wars than Cummins does. The original statement "Cummins turbo diesels pretty much rules the serious truck market"? can't be substantiated in any tangible way. Ruling the market would indicate Daimler Chryslers trucks have the largest "market" share, and that is far from the truth. >>>> GM moved the sales needle from less than 10% market share in newly >>>> sold HD trucks in 1999 to over 30% market share by 2002 after it [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > uh, ok. Whatever. LOL >>>>>>> Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > That changes every year. Nonsense. > The Ford Powerstrokes, have more years of > being on top in the pickup power wars than Cummins does. On top of what, the poop pile? > The original > statement "Cummins turbo diesels pretty much rules the serious truck > market"? can't be substantiated in any tangible way. Ruling the > market would indicate Daimler Chryslers trucks have the largest > "market" share, and that is far from the truth. You believe what you want to. Like I already said, whatever. You've got nothing. >>>>> GM moved the sales needle from less than 10% market share in newly >>>>> sold HD trucks in 1999 to over 30% market share by 2002 after it [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> >> uh, ok. Whatever. LOL >>>> So what indicator would you use to back up your unfounded statement >>>> that "Cummins turbo diesels pretty much rules the serious truck [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nonsense. Nonsense? Just because it pisses you off, doesn't make it nonsense. >> The Ford Powerstrokes, have more years of >> being on top in the pickup power wars than Cummins does. > > On top of what, the poop pile? The same poop pile you are asserting Cummins pretty much rules... >> The original >> statement "Cummins turbo diesels pretty much rules the serious truck [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You believe what you want to. Like I already said, whatever. You've > got nothing. Except the truth, and the fact that the truth pisses you off. You can't "RULE the Market" when you own less than 25% of the market. No matter how you try to twist it. Period! Ford OWNS over 50% of the diesel pickup market. While the Cummins powered Daimler Chrysler trucks cannot even maintain 25% of the market. Daimler Chrysler = 95,171 < 21.5% GM = 115,578 > 25.5% Ford = 239,645 > 53% Everyone has the right to remain ignorant, carry on. >>>>> So what indicator would you use to back up your unfounded >>>>> statement that "Cummins turbo diesels pretty much rules the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Nonsense? Just because it pisses you off, doesn't make it nonsense. Yes, nonsense. Your statement "That changes every year" is meaningless, as it refers to absolutely nothing. So it is indeed nonsense. BTW, where do you read pissed off? Sounds like you're the one getting po'd. >>> The Ford Powerstrokes, have more years of >>> being on top in the pickup power wars than Cummins does. >> >> On top of what, the poop pile? > > The same poop pile you are asserting Cummins pretty much rules... Yeah, I thought you sounded all bothered. LOL! >>> The original >>> statement "Cummins turbo diesels pretty much rules the serious truck [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Except the truth, and the fact that the truth pisses you off. LOL! > You can't "RULE the Market" when you own less than 25% of the market. > No matter how you try to twist it. Period! Everything you've written in this ridiculous thread has been twisted. > Ford OWNS over 50% of the diesel pickup market. While the Cummins > powered Daimler Chrysler trucks cannot even maintain 25% of the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Everyone has the right to remain ignorant, carry on. Right. Do, indeed. Not quite yet approved, according to this article... http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=115369 The muscle-car Web site claimed that the Challenger was on track as a 2008.5 model. "They don't know what they are talking about," Chrysler spokesman Jason Vines told IL. "There has been no official approval, and I should know — I'm on the product strategy team that gives the green light. We are doing the business case on that [the Challenger] and the Imperial. "What we have done is reached out to suppliers and asked them for costs. It doesn't mean the car has the green light." >Employees from DamilerChrysler supplier, Collins & Aikman told >NewAgeMuscleCars.com today that they are working on engineering certain [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.