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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / July 2006Visit to the Ford Dealer
I was having some work done on my car so I walked around the Ford dealership looking at cars. A salesman greeted me. I asked if they had and new GT500's yet. He said no, but they were getting four. He said it looked like they would sell for MSRP + 25K, around $70K. I wonder what they will be going for in a year? I told him I'd certainly be looking at a Corvette for that kind of money and he agreed. They had quite a few nice GT coupes. A real nice black 06 GT Premium 5-speed on sale for $26,700. Mort 98 Cobra (Still!) Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots with more money than sense. It will continue for another 6-12 months IMO. > I was having some work done on my car so I walked around the Ford > dealership looking at cars. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Mort > 98 Cobra (Still!) in re: what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE tried ordering an '05 GT convert from my local dealer starting 1 1/2 years ago.......at first, he wanted $5800 over sticker.....lowest he ever got was $3000 over. so, I finally went to an out-of-town dealer and ordered an '06 for $3000 under sticker (which was a good price at the time). car came in Feb. and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun coversation. doubt if 500s will ever be bargains, but as gas goes up and Ford goes down, dealers are gonna feel the pinch. let them each cake (or something) > in re: what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > down, dealers are gonna feel the pinch. let them each cake (or > something) Uh, that's "eat cake"! :-) right, let them eat cake (or something). > in re: what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun > coversation. BRAVO!!! Well done! I'm shopping for a leftover 06 myself and I noticed that the lots are loaded with them in all kinds of colors and trim! I get the Ford X-Plan price (as a Ford Partner) but I suspect they are going to want to deal even more (lower) than that because either they took in too many cars, or the car buying market is slowing down a bit. And this is at 4 different dealerships in my area! I looked last year as well, at 05 leftovers and at this time of year there wasn't one to be found anywhere so something has changed at least where I live. I've read mixed stories about dealers not wanting to give the Xplan price on the GT, but I might make them an offer they can't refuse... And they can keep the canolies! (From the movie The Godfather) (Officially the GT is excluded I believe) Lymee: yes, I was eligible for X-Plan, too. Dealer #1 (Donley Ford of Ashland, OH) literally laughed in my face. Then went to Mullinax Ford - Amherst OH. No arguments at all - they would honor X-Plan on anything in stock or ordered. Mullinax is part of AutoNation. I understand that AutoNation's dealership sells something like 20% or more of all new cars sold in the US......now I know why. Would recommend them to anyone as it was a painless deal......car was beautifully preped (zero defects so far), full tank, follow-up courtesy calls, etc. (again, this was a Mustang GT convert when they were still rare. I suppose now I would be tempted to consider the V6, but the mpg on the GT is great). Imagine better deals are available now.....except 500s and THE GT. > in re: what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun > coversation. I wonder how many people walk away from Ford dealers and buy something different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more people to this nonsense than they gain from it? >> in re: what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more > people to this nonsense than they gain from it? Well in 1999, that is exactly what I did for my wife's new non-Ford ride. i have always had fords. back in 99 i had to go to 4 dealers to get what i could afford and make a deal. the first 3 acted like they could care less if they sold me a f-150 or not, because i think cause i had a trade in??. the 4th dealer had my deal done in less that 40 minutes. now i only deal with those guys and been pleased eversince. + my dad bought a 02 saleen from them. they treated us good. mp 99-f150 99-gt >> in re: what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun >> coversation. >I wonder how many people walk away from Ford dealers and buy something >different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more >people to this nonsense than they gain from it? I am in that group. I have a 1992 5.0 and I was looking to trade in my 1994 Caravan for a new ride. I really liked the 2006 Pony Edition (so did my wife :-) so I went to Campbell Ford in Ottawa, which is the largest Ford dealer in eastern Ontario. They had the Pony advertised in the local paper and on their website for the intro price of $23,500cdn. Browsing the lot, all of the stickers were between $27k and $30k. I found a salesman and asked him what the deal was with the Pony and his response was, "What would you like the deal to be?". Bullshit! I asked about the special price and he said that the sticker on the window was the price and he could not come up a calculation about how the price jumps from $23.5k to $28k. Turns out that there is no way you can get a Pony off the lot for less than $27.5k. I turned my attention to the Fusion and 500s. Same crap. No clear indication of price and vague references to deals that were not forthcoming. Also, they were not interested in taking my 1994 as trade. Anyway, I bought a fully loaded 2006 Impala LT for a great price and I am very happy with the car and the purchase experience could not have been easier. The Chevy dealership also gave me a very good price for my trade. Two weeks after I bought the Impala, the Ford salesman calls and wants to talk. Sill doesn't want my trade and the prices are still vague. See ya later! > I have a 1992 5.0 and I was looking to trade in my 1994 Caravan for a > new ride. I really liked the 2006 Pony Edition (so did my wife :-) so [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > asked him what the deal was with the Pony and his response was, "What > would you like the deal to be?". Bullshit! I read a book many years ago about the auto sales industry and how it works. I believe it was called "Don't Get Taken Every Time" or something like that. The author was a former car salesman and basically explained the tricks, lingo etc used by the dealerships. One thing I remember is that you never respond to an open ended question like "What would you like the deal to be?" or "What are you looking to pay for this car?" because you have in effect given away your poker hand to the salesman. > I wonder how many people walk away from Ford dealers and buy something > different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more > people to this nonsense than they gain from it? Where I live the Ford dealers are very friendly and so is one very small Dodge dealer we have here as well. The GM dealers are PITA except for one and that's only the parts guy who has always been very helpful to me. The worst dealers are the Japanese ones with Mitsubishi at the top. I took a 2006 Eclipse Spyder vert for a test drive, about 2 hours after I had just driven a 06 Mustang GT Vert AND a V6 coupe. So after the ride, the Mistsubishi salesman asks me what I thought and I told him, nicely that the car was a real looker but it felt kind of flimsy to me. He took a look at my Dodge Caravan soccer mom special parked in the lot and said something like "compared to your Dodge" ? To which I replied, no...compared to the Mustang GT I just test drove an hour ago. You should have seen the look on his face :) Then he comes back with "Well if you wanted to buy a Ford, why did you come to a Mitsubishi dealer?" I ended the conversation with "Don't worry, I won't be back"... And Mitsubishi wonders why they are considering pulling out of the USA market if sales don't improve? >> in re: what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more >people to this nonsense than they gain from it? I did exactly that late last year. My wife wanted a new Explorer E/Bauer package. We went to the local dealership (same one I've been trading wtih for 20 years) and walked in as usual telling the sales manager we want "that Explorer" and asking, "how much" well, he insisted on sticker price. I told him I wanted to buy the car, not the dealership... To make a long story short, he wouldn't deal, I went to the Merc/Lincoln dealer, we bought a new Mountaineer. Drove it off that lot over to the Ford dealer, parked in front, walked in past the sales manager right to the owner's office. I asked him to come outside and see my "NEW CAR" when he did, he almost sh.t. Asked me what happened, I told him, he was visibly upset... The next time I was in the dealership, a couple of weeks later (to have coffee with some friends that work there) the sales manager was gone. I asked what happened and was told that he didn't come back the day after I bought my Mountaineer. So, the moral to that story is, let bullshit walk and go somewhere else to spend your money, BUT make sure you go back and let the MANAGER/OWNER know what happened after the fact. That's when you have the most clout, when they KNOW you mean business by dealing with the competetion. Tell them then and there, if they want your business "next time" to make sure they act like it and treat you like they want your business or you'll go "across the street" again. That tactic has worked for me. I walk in now, the current sales force knows not to play games... They might screw me without me knowing it, laugh behind my back and call me "whatever" but at least they talk seriously and don't try to sell me over sticker or at sticker because I look "hungry" John On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:07:06 -0500, nobody wrote: > So, the moral to that story is, let bullshit walk and go somewhere > else to spend your money, BUT make sure you go back and let the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > worked for me. I walk in now, the current sales force knows not to > play games... Another thing people may not realize is that the followup survey calls that often arrive a couple of weeks after a purchase are taken VERY SERIOUSLY at the management level by most companies. I know one large company (not automobiles) where getting a "satisfied" instead of a "very satisfied" is considered a bad mark against the person whose work is being surveyed. Lymee: yeah, "Top Box" satisfaction scores have been the big deal with a lot of companies for a while (think they'd rather spend the big bucks on surveys, research, consultants instead of better service/products). Got my survey from FoMoCo a couple weeks after I got the new 'Stang.......gave the dealer I finally bought it from very good marks.....mostly top box. For all the cars I've bought, tho', just once I'd like to get a survey on what I think of the CAR......I'd mention no light in the glove compartment or cigarette lighter for $35,000 or the chintzie top "boot" that cost $180 that I'd be ashamed of anyone seeing! But it sure do go down the road good. > > and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun > > coversation. > > I wonder how many people walk away from Ford dealers and buy something > different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more > people to this nonsense than they gain from it? Well, we bought a Sable in 1988 when you couldn't deal on an Accord or Camry. We've been with Ford pretty much since then. But I am always astounded by threads like this one. If the dealer finally has a hot car, people scream when they try to sell if for a score. I never hear anyone crying when Ford dealers (or any brand) are giving away Windstars and Taurus' when the demand is weak. Customers armed with not only invoice info, but holdback figures really beat up dealers (their right) when the market gives them the leverage. Let the moron's buy the cars over MSRP, it's also their right. John > But I am always astounded by threads like this one. If the dealer > finally has a hot car, people scream when they try to sell if for a > score. I never hear anyone crying when Ford dealers (or any brand) are > giving away Windstars and Taurus' when the demand is weak. People beat up the manufacturers in that case ;)... but anyway, the reason has everything to do with the dealers themselves and how they treat people in general. If it weren't an adversarial system then you'd have a valid point, but it is. And people are happy with victory, not defeat. > Customers > armed with not only invoice info, but holdback figures really beat up > dealers (their right) when the market gives them the leverage. Electronics, toys, whatever have an MSRP. Some stores sell at MSRP, others well below it. It's extremely rare to see anyone sell above it. With cars however it's an entirely different story. For some reason cars are 'different'. But imagine you had to find research and handle every purchase you made like buying a car. Shopping would be quite chore wouldn't it? > Let the moron's buy the cars over MSRP, it's also their right. true, but it's same regarding complaining about being priced out of the market by dealers fleecing said morons. >> But I am always astounded by threads like this one. If the dealer >> finally has a hot car, people scream when they try to sell if for a [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > true, but it's same regarding complaining about being priced out of the > market by dealers fleecing said morons. It is even more far reaching than that. Ford Motor Company gets a great big black eye for allowing it's dealer (Did I type Dealer? Should read Stealer) network to fleece their customers in this fashion. I have lost a lot of respect and loyalty for Ford Motor Company over this asinine Shelby GT500 pricing fiasco. I have actually seriously entertained jumping the Ford ship for the first time in my life, and buying a Corvette over this BS. > Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots with > more money than sense. It will continue for another 6-12 months IMO. That is, if Ford's still making them at that point... ;) Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >> I was having some work done on my car so I walked around the Ford >> dealership looking at cars. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> Mort >> 98 Cobra (Still!) >> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots > with >> more money than sense. It will continue for another 6-12 months IMO. > > That is, if Ford's still making them at that point... ;) I think they will because even at MSRP they are making a killing off the car. EVERYTHING on it is either low tech or already developed under existing models. That includes the heads, blower, intercooler and even the rear end is a low cost easy to install solid axle. I bet the GT500 doesn't cost hardly any more than the last Cobra to build since they dropped the IRS. I think Ford sees the GT500 as just another Cobra offering with Carrol Shelby's name slapped on it. In fact, that is probably where the extra cost is from over the last Cobra. :) Plus, with the GT going out of production they need a high performance model of some sort and the GT500 is all they have for the foreseeable future. Anyway, I WILL NOT pay more than $45k-$50k for a loaded convertible GT500. It just won't happen. There are too many better convertibles in the $50k-$65k price range that weigh far less. In fact, Ford advertises "Bold Moves" so why don't they do a "bold move" themselves and sell the damn car for the advertised price. > Joe > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>> Mort >>> 98 Cobra (Still!) >>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots >> with [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Ford advertises "Bold Moves" so why don't they do a "bold move" themselves > and sell the damn car for the advertised price. If they would sell them at MSRP I would buy one yesterday. If they insist on allowing their stealership network to continue gouging their customers, this life long Ford guy (I bleed Ford Blue) will be driving a Z06 Coverlet Corvette instead of a Ford Mustang GT500. >>>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots >>> with [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > this life long Ford guy (I bleed Ford Blue) will be driving a Z06 Coverlet > Corvette instead of a Ford Mustang GT500. The dealers are just out to fleece those first buyers that are too dumb to wait for the price to drop. I too am a loyal Ford customer but I won't be gouged of a GT500. There are too many cars that are better this it for $50k+. The price will drop if they build as many of them as they have said. My real gripe with Ford will be if they don't build the stated quantity. If they do and there are enough buyers to keep the price up then I guess it is just a popular car. I think they have made the three year production run high enough to drop the price - so far so good. If they go back on their word to us loyal Mustang buyers then I may be done with Ford for good. >>>>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots >>>> with [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > the price - so far so good. If they go back on their word to us loyal > Mustang buyers then I may be done with Ford for good. Based on what I've been reading, I hope Ford will still be selling vehicles next year. A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but I think you get the point... > Based on what I've been reading, I hope Ford will still be selling > vehicles next year. > > A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but I think you get the point... I hear ya' and I am one of those people that will just walk away from the price gougers and laugh all the way to the bank. However, it seems like it is happening all over the place. The Japs simply won't deal on price at all, not that I care because I would never own a Jap car. Pontiac is playing the same game with the Solstice (sp?). They laughed at me when I walked into a dealer and asked to test drive one. Same deal with Saturn Sky. And BTW when the Saturn Sky Turbo/supercharged wtf it is comes out later this year, the fools who paid way over list on the current models will be kicking themselves. I simply won't buy a car that is "in demand" so to speak. That's for suckers and people with lot's of money to burn, collectors. I stopped by a Dodge lot today and they seem to be offering up "employee pricing" on all cars and there are some serious discounts. I personally don't like the Charger, but a hemi equipped model listing for 28k going for 20k and change looked like a very nice deal to me. My wife likes Minivans (Caravans to be exact), I hate them........ However the price is reasonable compared to Honda etc. A fairly well loaded Grand Caravan was going for around 21k or so. >>>>>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots >>>>> with [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but I think you get the point... Ford, GM and DC are really in a bind right now. They are paying the price for shoving SUVs down our throats and ignoring the car market. I don't see the price of gas going lower and, if anything, it will go higher for the next several years. Now where will most of the ex SUV owners go for their new fuel efficient cars? I'll give you one guess... Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc. Look for the domestic makers market share to erode further in the coming years. Plus, I'm not sure if it really matters much what brand we buy. Hell, Toyotas' probably have more domestic content than cars from Ford or GM. I see Ford/GM management and the unions just whistling past the graveyard. When it comes to their vehicle lineup, Ford is like the NBA and NFL is with players. They change model names so fast that no one knows what the hell they sell anymore. If someone asked me to name the models of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles I really couldn't tell you half of them. Do you think Toyota has plans to rename the Camry or Honda to rename the Civic or Accord any time soon? They would consider it marketing suicide. IMO, there was nothing wrong with the Taurus (or Thunderbird) name. It was a great car at one time and the top selling model in the USA for several years. What killed the Taurus was Ford's lack of innovation and engineering toward the car. It had nothing to do with the name. Look at Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. They continually fixed their cars with every new generation and now reap the benefits of decades of model name recognition. The Corolla was seen as a cheap econobox 20-30 years ago but not anymore. It is a great little car. Aside from the F truck series and the Mustang I can't think of any FMC cars that have any continuous, long term, name recognition. Now aren't the Mustang and F truck series two of their most popular offerings? Hmmmm.... maybe there is a correlation to this after all. IMO, what is wrong with Ford, GM and the "C" in DC is they need to regain the confidence and trust of the US auto buying public. Personally, I think they offer cars that are very close to what the foreign makers build but they can't market for sh.t and the dealers practices are further hurting them. Most people don't separate the Ford Dealer from Ford Corporate. If dealers, and Ford, went out of their way to make their buyers happy then they would regain market share. Unfortunately, short term (and short sighted) greed is killing them. "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:nqSdnYe- nbeBhibZnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@giganews.com: >>>>>>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots >>>>>> with [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > to make their buyers happy then they would regain market share. > Unfortunately, short term (and short sighted) greed is killing them. Michael, I think you're pretty much right on the money (as usual). The only thing I might comment on is that DC arguably has the strongest lineup right now. As with the other "American" makers, however, they still need to come up with _real_ competition for cars like the Fit, Yaris, etc. not to mention the long-time best sellers like the Camry, Corolla, etc. BTW, it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, comes from the GM/Renault talks... > "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:nqSdnYe- > nbeBhibZnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@giganews.com: [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Yaris, etc. not to mention the long-time best sellers like the Camry, > Corolla, etc. I was going to add that I thought DC is in the best position to turn things around for themselves. They think outside the box when designing cars and aren't afraid to take a chance. The PT Cruiser, 300M, Crossfire, Viper etc. are cars that Ford or GM wouldn't think of building. Plus, DC has Mercedes' engineering to take from which is a big help to their model line and is why the 300M/Charger is so successful. > BTW, it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, comes from the > GM/Renault talks... I can't see much of anything coming out of it. Renault has no influence here in the US so what is the purpose? GM needs a sit down with the UAW more than Renault. ;) > "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:nqSdnYe- > nbeBhibZnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@giganews.com: > Michael, I think you're pretty much right on the money (as usual). The > only thing I might comment on is that DC arguably has the strongest [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > BTW, it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, comes from the > GM/Renault talks... When Germany's Daimler took over Chrysler and moved the lions share of their production to Mexico, didn't Chrysler cease to be an "American" car maker??? Joe wrote: > "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in > news:yr-dnaZhhPIpJCfZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com: > >> My Names Nobody wrote: >>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message >>> news:j72dnWZ8TdcC4SfZnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>> Joe wrote: >>>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in >>>>> news:cIednTxtwoaiXSTZnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d@giganews.com: >>>>> >>>>>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots >>>>> with >>>>>> more money than sense. It will continue for another 6-12 months >>>>>> IMO. >>>>> That is, if Ford's still making them at that point... ;) >>>> I think they will because even at MSRP they are making a killing off >>>> the car. EVERYTHING on it is either low tech or already developed >>>> under existing models. That includes the heads, blower, intercooler >>>> and even the rear end is a low cost easy to install solid axle. I >>>> bet the GT500 doesn't cost hardly any more than the last Cobra to >>>> build since they dropped the IRS. I think Ford sees the GT500 as >>>> just another Cobra offering with Carrol Shelby's name slapped on it. >>>> In fact, that is probably where the extra cost is from over the >>>> last Cobra. :) >>>> >>>> Plus, with the GT going out of production they need a high >>>> performance model of some sort and the GT500 is all they have for >>>> the foreseeable future. Anyway, I WILL NOT pay more than $45k-$50k >>>> for a loaded convertible GT500. It just won't happen. There are >>>> too many better convertibles in the $50k-$65k price range that weigh >>>> far less. In fact, Ford advertises "Bold Moves" so why don't they >>>> do a "bold move" themselves and sell the damn car for the advertised >>>> price. >>>> >>> If they would sell them at MSRP I would buy one yesterday. If they >>> insist on allowing their stealership network to continue gouging >>> their customers, this life long Ford guy (I bleed Ford Blue) will be >>> driving a Z06 Coverlet Corvette instead of a Ford Mustang GT500. >> The dealers are just out to fleece those first buyers that are too >> dumb to wait for the price to drop. I too am a loyal Ford customer >> but I won't be gouged of a GT500. There are too many cars that are >> better this it for $50k+. The price will drop if they build as many >> of them as they have said. My real gripe with Ford will be if they >> don't build the stated quantity. If they do and there are enough >> buyers to keep the price up then I guess it is just a popular car. I >> think they have made the three year production run high enough to drop >> the price - so far so good. If they go back on their word to us loyal >> Mustang buyers then I may be done with Ford for good. > > Based on what I've been reading, I hope Ford will still be selling > vehicles next year. > > A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but I think you get the point... Ford, GM and DC are really in a bind right now. They are paying the price for shoving SUVs down our throats and ignoring the car market. I don't see the price of gas going lower and, if anything, it will go higher for the next several years. Now where will most of the ex SUV owners go for their new fuel efficient cars? I'll give you one guess... Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc. Look for the domestic makers market share to erode further in the coming years. Plus, I'm not sure if it really matters much what brand we buy. Hell, Toyotas' probably have more domestic content than cars from Ford or GM. I see Ford/GM management and the unions just whistling past the graveyard. When it comes to their vehicle lineup, Ford is like the NBA and NFL is with players. They change model names so fast that no one knows what the hell they sell anymore. If someone asked me to name the models of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles I really couldn't tell you half of them. Do you think Toyota has plans to rename the Camry or Honda to rename the Civic or Accord any time soon? They would consider it marketing suicide. IMO, there was nothing wrong with the Taurus (or Thunderbird) name. It was a great car at one time and the top selling model in the USA for several years. What killed the Taurus was Ford's lack of innovation and engineering toward the car. It had nothing to do with the name. Look at Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. They continually fixed their cars with every new generation and now reap the benefits of decades of model name recognition. The Corolla was seen as a cheap econobox 20-30 years ago but not anymore. It is a great little car. Aside from the F truck series and the Mustang I can't think of any FMC cars that have any continuous, long term, name recognition. Now aren't the Mustang and F truck series two of their most popular offerings? Hmmmm.... maybe there is a correlation to this after all. IMO, what is wrong with Ford, GM and the "C" in DC is they need to regain the confidence and trust of the US auto buying public. Personally, I think they offer cars that are very close to what the foreign makers build but they can't market for sh.t and the dealers practices are further hurting them. Most people don't separate the Ford Dealer from Ford Corporate. If dealers, and Ford, went out of their way to make their buyers happy then they would regain market share. Unfortunately, short term (and short sighted) greed is killing them. ------------ Yes. But there is also this perception that foreign cars are better made. This, obviously, is not true. But every time an American model, like Lincoln comes #2 in JD Powers Initial Quality Survey, what do you hear about it? Zip. Americans, and Canadians, (me), are sheep. How else can you justify the sales of the BMW 3-series? It's a pos, but some magazine says it's the cat's a.s and people want it. Who wants a Lincoln? And I'm pretty sure in the last JD survey, Ford ranked above BMW and Mercedes. Did you know that? Didn't think so. Blame Ford for that. Marketing is soooo important. The Americans suck at it and they're already behind the 8-ball. Brad >If they would sell them at MSRP I would buy one yesterday. If they insist >on allowing their stealership network to continue gouging their customers, >this life long Ford guy (I bleed Ford Blue) will be driving a Z06 Coverlet >Corvette instead of a Ford Mustang GT500. Same here, I bought my first Ford in 1971, A Gran Torino station wagon (UGGGGGH) but it was the "family thing at the time. Since then. Before that I drove GM products, I've driven Fords ever since with no exceptions. On my third Mustang, wiht a Mercury Mountaineer and a F250 HD diesel 4X4 in the garage. All told, it's been close to 30 Fords since '71. Like you, before I let my "pride" get screwed buying a 45K car for 65K, I'll revert to my "pre '71 days" and mosey on over to Southern Chevrolet and talk seriously about Corvette. Might be some "swallowing" going on with the folks that look at me as the "FOAD NUT" at work, but I'll manage that with a smile. I just simply AIN'T gonna get screwed by any "stealership" regardless of "brand loyalty" John > I was having some work done on my car so I walked around the Ford > dealership looking at cars. > > A salesman greeted me. I asked if they had and new GT500's yet. He > said no, but they were getting four. He said it looked like they would > sell for MSRP + 25K, around $70K. Ouch! Yep, I'm certain some dealerships will be trying to squeeze every penny out of their first GT500s. It's unfortunate, but in a case like this, the suckers are the ones who will determine the market. :( I saw my first one at a car show at a dealership in Ipswich, MA on friday. NICE! Black hardtop with the stripe delete. It looked absolutely evil. :) Spoke with the owner, he special ordered it in NH before pricing was even announced, negotiating the price to 5k over invoice. That's pretty encouraging, IMO.  SignatureJohn C. (wants a GT500 bad,..but not *that* bad) '03 Cobra Convt. > I was having some work done on my car so I walked around the Ford > dealership looking at cars. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Mort > 98 Cobra (Still!) I guess I can say this since I have two fords and two volvos (now fords). BMW 2006 M3 MSRP 50.5K I think in almost any situation road or track the BMW will keep up with the GT500. That and the Corvette are the GT500's competition. Again I am a Ford owner but the GT500 is just a gussied up Mustang. The corvette is built from the ground up to be a high performance sports car and I imagine the the Motorsport division of BMW is at least as sophisticated as Ford's SVT. For me the Mustang tops out with the Cobra. Probably worth about 33K out the door. But the market will decide. Howard |
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