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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / August 2006My First Mustang!
Hello all! I am looking at purchasing my first Mustang after all my years of driving Minivans and station wagons (remember those?!). I have been doing a lot of research and even rented a 2006 Mustang Convertible V6 from Hertz for a day just to get an idea what it drove like. The last Mustang I drove was a 2004 40th anniversary convertible model, also a V6 from Hertz and I was not impressed with the engine. As I understand it the 2005+ V6 is a different motor than the 3.8L that was used in previous V6 Mustangs? The Hertz rental sure seemed to have a lot of power compared to what I remember from the other one I drove. Is the 2005 V8 the same as say a 2003 GT? The reason I ask is that I can afford a new V6 coupe, MAYBE a new V6 Convertible, but I can't afford a new GT and a GT convertible is out of the question. I have an opportunity to purchase a 2003 GT convertible Ford 100th anniversary model, loaded, with 16k miles on it from a dealer for about $19k. I would love to have a GT convertible and this is one way I could do it but I am not sure if I would rather have the newer style, if only for the improvements Ford has made. I am scheduling a test drive to compare. Anything I should look out for with the older model? If I buy a new V6 I can get a Ford 'X plan' price so that is a consideration. Dealers aren't bargaining on the GT's at all and most are priced near $30k which is too much. I also need an automatic. Like others in the group I do tend to keep my cars forever. Has anyone else been in this situation? What did you decide and why? Thank you for any sage advice you can offer and have a pleasant day! Terry The V8 motors used in the GT changed in 2005. They went to a 3 valve versus 2 valve engine. They also increased HP from 265 to 300. The 2003 GT has 265 HP. > Hello all! > I am looking at purchasing my first Mustang after all my years of driving [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Terry And the handling was vastly improved for 2005... > The V8 motors used in the GT changed in 2005. They went to a 3 valve > versus 2 valve engine. They also increased HP from 265 to 300. The 2003 [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >> >> Terry > Hello all! > I am looking at purchasing my first Mustang after all my years of driving > Minivans and station wagons (remember those?!). It's great to be a kid again, isn't it? > I have been doing a lot of research and even rented a 2006 Mustang > Convertible V6 from Hertz for a day just to get an idea what it drove > like. The last Mustang I drove was a 2004 40th anniversary convertible > model, also a V6 from Hertz and I was not impressed with the engine. Me neither! What a pig. Very uninspiring styling, too. > As I understand it the 2005+ V6 is a different motor than the 3.8L that > was used in previous V6 Mustangs? Completly differant. You should rent another one for a week end. The V6/Auto is an excellent combo. It's a 4.0L detuned V6 mod motor. Same as the V8 but with two cylinders lopped off the front. It's detuned so it doesn;t compete with the GT. With some very simple changes you can get GT performance. > Is the 2005 V8 the same as say a 2003 GT? No, much improved. > The reason I ask is that I can afford a new V6 coupe, MAYBE a new V6 > Convertible, but I can't afford a new GT and a GT convertible is out of > the question. I like a vert. But in the Mustang, the hardtop looks so much better, I'de get the hard top. > I have an opportunity to purchase a 2003 GT convertible Ford 100th > anniversary model, loaded, with 16k miles on it from a dealer for about > $19k. Not a chance! I wouldn't touch that deal with a 10' crescent wrench. > I would love to have a GT convertible and this is one way I could do it > but I am not sure if I would rather have the newer style, if only for the > improvements Ford has made. The new car is a vast improvement over the 2003. The only thing they have in common is the name. > I am scheduling a test drive to compare. > Anything I should look out for with the older model? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I also need an automatic. Salesman in my are are really dealing on the V6's. A V6 auto is about 10K less than the GT similarly equipped. And you'de be surprised how little power differance there is between the two engines.  Signature.boB Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red. 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver 1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast. > It's great to be a kid again, isn't it? Yea it sure is! Now I understand why my dad wanted to buy that VW Karmanghia Vert. when I was growing up and he was in his late 40's. I didn't understand it then, but I sure do now! > Me neither! What a pig. Very uninspiring styling, too. Yea, the car was yellow and a vert so that sort of made up for it, but the 3.8l motor was a pig. I drove it for about a week as a rental. >> As I understand it the 2005+ V6 is a different motor than the 3.8L that >> was used in previous V6 Mustangs? > > Completly differant. You should rent another one for a week end. > The V6/Auto is I'd love to but it's very difficult to get them from Hertz. I rent a lot of cars, due to business, and my company is one of Hertz's largest customers and even *I* have a tough time getting one. I was pretty impressed with the 2006 I rented. It was a vert, had the pony package but no interior upgrade package. I've basically figured out I want Vista Blue with the Pony Package mostly due to the suspension upgrade and also the interior upgrade package. I will need an automatic as well, but that's about all I need to keep me happy. Are there any other options that people find are "must haves" ? I'm trying to find a 2006, but that doesn't look good so I'll most like order a 2007. Also the warranty increased for 2007 I believe which is a plus. > an excellent combo. It's a 4.0L detuned V6 mod motor. Same as the V8 > but with two cylinders lopped off the front. It's detuned so it doesn;t > compete with the GT. With some very simple changes you can get GT > performance. Any pointers? I've read about the EPROM flash to get rid of the torque limiter and I suppose a decent cold air intake might help a bit? Yes/no? I don't like KN stuff because of the oil and MAF not playing well together over the long haul. >> Is the 2005 V8 the same as say a 2003 GT? > > No, much improved. That's what I figured. > I like a vert. But in the Mustang, the hardtop looks so much > better, I'de get > the hard top. Yea it does. Especially with a rally stripe, but I've heard of horror stories so I'm not sure about that one. Also, the vert is a vandalism target and even though I live in a peaceful area, you never know who you might piss of :( > Not a chance! I wouldn't touch that deal with a 10' crescent > wrench. Yea, it gave me a bad feeling as well. I ran a Carfax on it and it had 3 owners in 3 years, not that Carfax is worth anything, but it's good at weeding out the real losers. > The new car is a vast improvement over the 2003. The only thing > they have in > common is the name. Yea, I'm starting to see that :) >> I am scheduling a test drive to compare. Anything I should look out for >> with the older model? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > than the GT similarly equipped. And you'de be surprised how little > power differance there is between the two engines. I have a test drive set up for Sunday so I can compare the V6 and the GT one after the other. The salesman said pretty much the same thing you said BTW, but I asked him to humor me ha ha! I'll report back to the group my impressions of both! Thanks to everyone who replied, boB, Jim, My Names Nobody (great nik BTW!). >> It's great to be a kid again, isn't it? > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > I've read about the EPROM flash to get rid of the torque limiter and I > suppose a decent cold air intake might help a bit? where can you get the program to get rid of the torque limiter? > Yes/no? cold air helps, but it cost $300 > where can you get the program to get rid of the torque limiter? Hi Jim! Look here: http://www.tammyandjohn.com/Mustang/Screaming/Mustang.htm A lot of good information from John and Tammy! > > where can you get the program to get rid of the torque limiter? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > A lot of good information from John and Tammy! Hey! I know that guy! LOL! Just a couple of comments... Yes, reprogramming/re-flashing/re-tuning a V6 autotmatic makes a HUGE difference... It is truly a night and day difference! I mean you will not believe you are driving the same car!!! The Torque Limiter really kills the off the line preformance of the V6 automatic... It is the best $400 you will ever spend on the car! LOL! And it is incredibly simple to use! Just plug it in, follow the on screen instructions, hit a button or two and your done! Need to take your car in for warranty work? Simply use the "Return to Stock" option! It really is that easy! The tuner/programmer I recommend for automatics is the SCT X-Cal2. There are a number of good shops out there selling X-Cal2 but for an automatic I highly recommend Lidio at Alternative Auto. Here is his write up on his V6 tune: http://www.alternativeauto.com/prodserv/v6_05mustang_tune.html Take a look at the gains he got just from his tune: http://www.alternativeauto.com/images/05mustang_v6_dyno.jpg Especially look at the low end torque gains! LOL! Now the other think you asked about is a CAI... Most all of them are going to use a K&N type oiled filter... there are a couple of "dry" filter kits out there but I really don't know much about them. I've been doing the oiled filter for quite some time... key is not to over oil them... But actually the stock air box is not that bad.... it actually does quite well until about 4000 RPM.. The other mod I highly recommend is getting rid of the stock muffler! It is horribly restrictive! You can pick up 10RWHP by puttting a good after market muffler on! You can even put a GT take off on! (The 10RWHP was documented by Justin at VMP Tuning on his dyno... I am not making the number up! LOL) Good luck with you new Mustang, which ever way you decided to go! Keep up posted! LOL! > Yes, reprogramming/re-flashing/re-tuning a V6 autotmatic makes a HUGE > difference... It is truly a night and day difference! I mean you will [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Take a look at the gains he got just from his tune: > http://www.alternativeauto.com/images/05mustang_v6_dyno.jpg I notice that with the XCal I believe you need to run at least 89 octane gas more than likely because they play with the timing curve and or knock sensor. Is this true for everyday driving as well, or just if you are really nailing the throttle? Do you know if they are bypassing the knock sensor with the program? I would guess if not, you could run 87 and if it pings the knock sensor would retard the timing? TIA >> Yes, reprogramming/re-flashing/re-tuning a V6 autotmatic makes a HUGE >> difference... It is truly a night and day difference! I mean you will [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > I would guess if not, you could run 87 and if it pings the knock sensor > would retard the timing? Old stuff, old tuners trick, they are uping the timing, engine runs leaner, puts out more HP, but requires higher octang to keep from detonation. not a good way to get real HP. They got 20 more HP ? can't even feel that. What if your old lady puts a tank of 87 in it, or that sandnigger switched gas on you and you think you are buying 93 but it is really 87 ?? you gonna limp home. > >> Yes, reprogramming/re-flashing/re-tuning a V6 autotmatic makes a HUGE > >> difference... It is truly a night and day difference! I mean you will [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > gas on you and you think you are buying 93 but it is really 87 ?? > you gonna limp home. To bad you don't know what you're talking about... The new Spanish Oak has a Torque Management System that will kill the the car's performance off the line... If it decides you are trying to make too much torque it pulls timing, etc. and gives the car a very sluggish feeling off the line.. Lidio (along with the other tuners) will all supply you with an 87 octane tune... As far as not feeling it... There is a huge jump in REAR WHEEL Torque that I you WILL feel... As far as leaning it out... Lidio tunes for a very acceptable 13.0... http://www.tammyandjohn.com/Mustang/Screaming/Images/cnl_dyno3.jpg Perhaps you need to brush on on the NEW stuff... >> >> Yes, reprogramming/re-flashing/re-tuning a V6 autotmatic makes a HUGE >> >> difference... It is truly a night and day difference! I mean you will [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Perhaps you need to brush on on the NEW stuff... that is not what the site says......... > >> >> Yes, reprogramming/re-flashing/re-tuning a V6 autotmatic makes a HUGE > >> >> difference... It is truly a night and day difference! I mean you will [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > that is not what the site says......... My mistake... the way you referred to "leaning it out" kind of made me think you were referring to shops that will lean a car out too much just to get the additional power. Lidio tunes for a safe A/F ratio.. So yes, he leans the fat factory tune out some... but he keeps it safe at 13.0... > Old stuff, old tuners trick, they are uping the timing, engine runs leaner, > puts out more HP, but requires higher octang to keep from detonation. Of course, but how does the engine management system deal with it? IOW let's say the Xcal curves are more aggressive, if the knock sensor is still in the circuit, running 87 should cause timing to decrease if the engine is detonating, but will allow full performance with 89. This is highly simplistic, but as long as the knock sensor has not been disabled and the timing curve isn't way out of limits, the knock sensor should do it's job and allow "normal" around street driving on 87. > not a good way to get real HP. They got 20 more HP ? can't even feel > that. I disagree. You can easily feel 20hp. Also the V6, at least from my 1 day driving trip, DOES have a throttle lag, bogdown, whatever you want to call it, from a dead start. If the Xcal gets rid of it, just that alone will make a BIG improvement in the overall drive-ablitly of the car. > What if your old lady puts a tank of 87 in it, or that sandnigger switched > gas on you and you think you are buying 93 but it is really 87 ?? > you gonna limp home. Not a chance. First off, the knock sensor will still do it's job. Second, a little pinging isn't going to kill anything dead on the spot. Just back off a little on the throttle and all will be well. Haven't you ever gotten *bad gas* ? I have, and my cars typically ping like crazy until I toss some drygas or fuel injector cleaner into the things to purge the crap gas. > Also the V6, at least from my 1 day driving trip, DOES have a throttle > lag, bogdown, whatever you want to call it, from a dead start. > > If the Xcal gets rid of it, just that alone will make a BIG improvement in > the overall drive-ablitly of the car. That is EXACTLY what an X-Cal2 will do for you!!! > > Yes, reprogramming/re-flashing/re-tuning a V6 autotmatic makes a HUGE > > difference... It is truly a night and day difference! I mean you will [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > TIA Ok... first a disclaimer.... I do not work or speak for any given shop. I will simply tell you what I have learned from working with them... What I am about to say I believe to be accurate but again, I am not an official spokesman! LOL! First item: Knock sensors. Most tuners will leave them on. I know that Lidio definitely does! Acutally the Spanish Oak will try to ADD timing if it feels the car is "under-sparked". Like I said though... Lidio leaves the sensors enabled.. Second item: 87 vs 89 octane. I think Lidio might actually have an 87 octane tune. You might want to confirm... or ask for one.. but worst case scenaro... you can adjust the timing in the tune right on the X-Cal2! When you go to load the 89 octane tune you can simply pull some timing... Very simple to do! >>an excellent combo. It's a 4.0L detuned V6 mod motor. Same as the V8 >>but with two cylinders lopped off the front. It's detuned so it doesn;t [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I don't like KN stuff because of the oil and MAF not playing well together > over the long haul. Go down to your local book store and pick up a copy of Mustangs and Fast Fords. Lots of advertisers in there. Simple things will make a big differance. Cold air, computer reprogram, lighter drive shaft, better tires, lower gearing, etc. Standard hot rod stuff we've been doing to Mustangs for decades. K&N stuff is OK. It's been a standard of the industry for a long time. I have K&N filters on a number of my vehicles. But I think there are now some better choices available for specific applications like the Mustang. Signature.boB Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red. 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver 1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast. I went from a 130K miles 1995 V6 Coupe Mustang to a 2005 V6 Convertible Mustang. I too can get x-plan. But my budget allowed for a v8 coupe or a v6 loaded convertible. A while back I had a 2005 V6 coupe rental for about 2 weeks and put 2000 miles on it. Just fell in love with the handling. It is vastly better than my 1995. I got luck and wa sable to keep control and play one dealer against another as both wanted to get rid of their $32K 2005 sticker V6 Premium convertibles in March 2006 with the 07's looming. I ended up paying 23K out the door for this car where a comparable 2006 model would have been about 30K out the door with x-plan. No 2005 GT's left anywhere so no dealing on those. It's been 5 months and I love this car. the 200HP v6 is more than zippy enough for me although I would have preferred a manual over the auto transmission. As it is, I'll have this baby paid of in 4 years with a FMC .9% APR finance deal. Making it more profitable to leave my money in the back and not even put anything down. It's the time of the year when you should be able to get some deals on 2006 models with the 07's coming in. Happy hunting and do your homework so the dealer doesn't screw you. Signature_ 2005 Mustang V6 Convertible (Mineral Grey) |_| Member Modern Mustangs of North America (MMNA) |__|ofh@tampabay.rr.com http://mustang.fdns.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > I went from a 130K miles 1995 V6 Coupe Mustang to a 2005 V6 Convertible > Mustang. I too can get x-plan. But my budget allowed for a v8 coupe or [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > FMC .9% APR finance deal. Making it more profitable to leave my money > in the back and not even put anything down. Actually the V6 is 210hp and 240 ft. lbs of torque. About the same horsepower and torque as the 68 Mustang with a 289 4v, not the HiPo version. I opted for the V6 and options as opposed to the V8. It wasn't worth the extra 7-8k for 2 more cylinders. Not to mention I saved a little on insurance cost with the V6. I've had my 06 now for about a month. I enjoy it and have no regrets. >> I went from a 130K miles 1995 V6 Coupe Mustang to a 2005 V6 Convertible >> Mustang. I too can get x-plan. But my budget allowed for a v8 coupe or [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > on insurance cost with the V6. I've had my 06 now for about a month. I > enjoy it and have no regrets. It might be making near the same published power and torque, but with a what 1200+ pound increase in weight? >>> I went from a 130K miles 1995 V6 Coupe Mustang to a 2005 V6 Convertible >>> Mustang. I too can get x-plan. But my budget allowed for a v8 coupe or [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > It might be making near the same published power and torque, but with a > what 1200+ pound increase in weight? What about it? Doesn't change the fact the motor is still puts out 210hp stock. > What about it? Doesn't change the fact the motor is still puts out 210hp > stock. I'm old enough to have driven the Dusters, Challengers, Chargers, Nova's etc of that era, albeit in the 70's not the 60's, but one thing springs to mind when I remember those cars:don't try and take a corner at speed. Skateboards with rocket engines on them. The suspensions on most of those cars was terrible, some would say even dangerous. Add in the bias ply tires, or first generation radials and you were looking at some seriously compromised cars. Sure they could be modified but out of the factory that DC torsion bar system was a mess. GM wasn't much better with undersized components. Those cars were designed to go straight line and they did it very well. Just don't try and turn a corner :) They were a hell of a lot of fun though, and still are! >> What about it? Doesn't change the fact the motor is still puts out 210hp >> stock. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Just don't try and turn a corner :) > They were a hell of a lot of fun though, and still are! Me as well. And many moons ago my 68 Charger R/T with bias ply tires, was always a joy traveling across a steel grated bridge.. |
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