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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / August 2006Thinking about building a 4V....
...to go into my 98 gt. I don't know much about engines so - besides the heads, block, and intake - what will I need to complete a 4V? I know that some parts will migrate from my existing 2V engine but need to know what is needed in addition. Thanks TNS > ...to go into my 98 gt. I don't know much about engines so - besides > the heads, block, and intake - what will I need to complete a 4V? I > know that some parts will migrate from my existing 2V engine but need > to know what is needed in addition. Thanks > > TNS Last year JEGS was listing a complete engine with trans. and wiring for $6400 Don't know if they still have any, but would be a great starting point. > ...to go into my 98 gt. I don't know much about engines so - besides > the heads, block, and intake - what will I need to complete a 4V? I > know that some parts will migrate from my existing 2V engine but need > to know what is needed in addition. Thanks Umm, you don't have a 2V engine. You have a fuel injected engine. 2V and4V denotes the type of carb/intake setup. You don't have a carb so it doesn't apply.  SignatureScott W. '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ 2V = 2 valve...... 3V = 3 valve and 4V = 4 valve... The classifications do apply and we use them on a daily basis.... Example... the current popular gasoline engine for the pick ups is the 5.4-3V... the classification is given to differentiate it from the 5.4-2V which, along with some obvious head and cam disparaties, does not share the variable cam timing featured on it's technologically advanced cousin.. (or the 5.4-4V that we never get the chance to road test... Welcome to the 21st century... we hope you enjoy your visit... > 2V = 2 valve...... 3V = 3 valve and 4V = 4 valve... The classifications do > apply and we use them on a daily basis.... > Welcome to the 21st century... we hope you enjoy your visit... Can we get a little sarcasm over here please? I'm running a bit short. I know when I've seen the mod motors discussed, the word "valve" was used, or the "V" was used in conjunction with the total number of valves in the engine, not per cylinder. That is unless the person was speaking specifically about how many valves per cylinder. I've NEVER heard anybody call them 2V, 3V or 4V. Now 16, 24 or 32 I have heard. 2V and 4V is MOST commonly used when discussing the carb and intake. Seeing as that style of engine has been around a helluva lot longer than the mod motor. SignatureScott W. '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ Scott.. when discussing old technology, the 2V or 4V acronym was ascribed to carburettor Venturis. A 2V carb would be a two barrel carb - A 4V car would be a 4 barrel. In our brave, new world, it has come to describe valve arrangements.... None of us has seen everything there is to see.... My 18 year old boy is distressed because he is starting to relaize that he is just as "stupid" as Dad is - hard to take after thinking that he knew everything simply because he has wrenches and coveralls.... This old dinosaur learned on breaker point ignitions and still remembers how to polarize a generator... there isn't a day goes by that I don't learn something... If I find that day, it'll be time for me to lay down and let the good Lord thank me for many years of mediocre service... You are allowed to be pissed at me for delivering a come-uppance in an indelicate manner... ain't no big thing.... New discoveries are a stock in trade in our shop.... What you need to do is learn from the experience and realize that there are things that each and every of us DON'T know.... In the long run, what we know is relatively unimportant.... realizing that there are things we don't know an realizing what they are, is very important. I work in a Ford store... My battle cry "RTFM".... >> 2V = 2 valve...... 3V = 3 valve and 4V = 4 valve... The classifications >> do apply and we use them on a daily basis.... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Seeing as that style of engine has been around a helluva lot longer than > the mod motor. > You are allowed to be pissed at me for delivering a come-uppance in an > indelicate manner... ain't no big thing.... I'm not pissed. I was just surprised by the sarcastic whit. :) SignatureScott W. '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ >> 2V = 2 valve...... 3V = 3 valve and 4V = 4 valve... The classifications >> do apply and we use them on a daily basis.... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Seeing as that style of engine has been around a helluva lot longer than > the mod motor. Sarcasm or no, Jim is right about the current use of the terms 2V, 3V or 4V referring to number of valves per cylinder, not the number of venturi in a 20 plus year obsolete carburetor. As a matter of fact, I have never heard of the new 3 valve modular motors referred to as anything else, certainly not 24 or 30 valve engines. > Sarcasm or no, Jim is right about the current use of the terms 2V, 3V or > 4V referring to number of valves per cylinder, not the number of venturi > in a 20 plus year obsolete carburetor. Obsolete? I'm not going there. SignatureScott W. '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ >> Sarcasm or no, Jim is right about the current use of the terms 2V, 3V or >> 4V referring to number of valves per cylinder, not the number of venturi >> in a 20 plus year obsolete carburetor. > > Obsolete? I'm not going there. Fine then, Scott, remain thick as a brick, your call... You can take your fingers out of your ears now. > As a matter of fact, I have never heard of the new 3 valve modular motors > referred to as anything else, certainly not 24 or 30 valve engines. Personally, I have never ever heard anyone say 2V, or 4V. Everone says 2 barrel, 4 barrel, 2 valve, 4 valve. My bike has a 3 valve chamber, I never say 3V. I say "three valve". There should be no confusion in an audible conversation about engines. The original postee should check out modularfords.com for better answers to his questions. >> As a matter of fact, I have never heard of the new 3 valve modular motors >> referred to as anything else, certainly not 24 or 30 valve engines. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Everone says 2 barrel, 4 barrel, 2 valve, 4 valve. >My bike has a 3 valve chamber, I never say 3V. I say "three valve". Then what do they mean by 2bbl and 4bbl? Bubble? -- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere? lab~rat >:-) wrote: >>>As a matter of fact, I have never heard of the new 3 valve modular motors >>>referred to as anything else, certainly not 24 or 30 valve engines. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > lab~rat >:-) > Do you want polite or do you want sincere? Bbl means barrel. To quote from Wikipedia: "In reference to petroleum, specifically oil and natural gas liquids, bbl is an abbreviation for 1 barrel, equal to exactly 42 U.S. gallons, or approximately 159 liters." SignatureCheers, Bob > 2V and 4V is MOST commonly used when discussing the carb and intake. Seeing > as that style of engine has been around a helluva lot longer than the mod > motor. "For the 1912 event, Peugeot decided to field a new grand prix car of 7.6 liters designed by Ernest Henry, who had collaborated with Marc Birkigt in the development of an Hispano Suiza for King Alfonso XIII. The 4-cylinder Hispano engine featured twin overhead camshafts, hemispheric combustion chambers and four valves per cylinder." http://www.team.net/www/ktud/braden2.html 180 Out >> 2V and 4V is MOST commonly used when discussing the carb and intake. >> Seeing [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > hemispheric combustion chambers and four valves per cylinder." > http://www.team.net/www/ktud/braden2.html One car, way back in 1912? Besides I was talking about carbs, I'm pretty sure EFI wasn't invented yet in 1912. SignatureScott W. '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ Well, after the 1912 Hispano-Suizas and the Peugeot racecars, there were 4v Bugattis, Duesenbergs, Millers, and others. Stutz, I think? Harry Miller built his first 4-valve in 1917, a 289 ci four. It was inspired by a Peugeot unit in a racecar that Miller had wrenched on. His golden years of 1920-1929 were founded on a string of blown 4-valve straight-eights. These engines put out 285 hp from 91 ci -- 3.1 hp/ci -- and did so for 500 miles at a stretch at Indy. These years also gave birth to a 151 ci 4-valve four cylinder, designed for marine use. In 1930 a customer installed one in his racecar. His racing success caused Miller to release a 220 ci road-going version. This project caused him to go bankrupt in 1933. Bankruptcy caused him to sell the four cylinder's tooling to an employee named Fred Offenhauser. The engine powered 24 Indy winners from 1934 to 1960, a 27-year reign which includes four years -- '42-'42 -- when the 500 was cancelled. Between 1950 and 1960, Offy cars, putting out around 420 hp from 252 ci, finished 1-2-3 in ten of eleven 500's. The Ford Cosworth DFV (dohc four valve) challenged and finally displaced the Offy upon its debut in 1963. The Offy continued to win, however. It scored its last victory in 1978 and ran in its last race in 1982. Point being, the 1912 Hispano-Suiza inspired the 1917 Miller 289, which was the ancestor of the 1930 Miller 220, which became the 1933-1982 Offy. So it was a few more than one car. The earliest 4-valve road cars I can think of, other than the Bugs and Deusies of the 20's, are the four cylinder Jensen sports car of the early '70's, with a Cosworth head, and a 4-valve head that Lotus put on the Ford four-bangers it was using. There was also a Cosworth Vega in this same period. It seems like the exotics were late to the game, and that the Japanese were the first to bring the 4v into the mainstream. http://www.milleroffy.com/Racing%20History.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offenhauser 180 Out > >> 2V and 4V is MOST commonly used when discussing the carb and intake. > >> Seeing [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > ThunderSnake #57 > http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ The engine powered 24 Indy winners from 1934 to 1960, a > 27-year reign which includes four years -- '42-'42 -- when the 500 was > cancelled. Between 1950 and 1960, Offy cars, putting out around 420 hp > from 252 ci, finished 1-2-3 in ten of eleven 500's. Let's re-write these two sentences: This engine powered 26 Indy winners from 1934 to 1976, a 43-year reign which includes four years -- '42-'45 -- when the 500 was cancelled. Its "Miller" brand ancestor won three more. Between 1950 and 1960, Offy cars, putting out around 420 hp from 252 ci, finished 1-2-3 in ten of eleven 500's. http://www.motorsportsetc.com/champs/indy500.htm > The Ford Cosworth DFV (dohc four valve) challenged and finally > displaced the Offy upon its debut in 1963. The Offy continued to win, > however. It scored its last victory in 1978 and ran in its last race > in 1982. Make that, "its last *Indy-car* victory" was in 1978. The Offy's last *Indy 500* win was in '76. > Point being, the 1912 Hispano-Suiza inspired the 1917 Miller 289, which > was the ancestor of the 1930 Miller 220, which became the 1933-1982 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > http://www.milleroffy.com/Racing%20History.htm > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offenhauser 180 Out |
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