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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / November 2006

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New to group and had a few ?'s

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Bleek600 - 21 Nov 2006 06:18 GMT
Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
some info..  I am picking up a 1979 2.3 auto Mustang and want  to
convert it to a v-8...  I have read all the posts and have an idea of
what I need.. But the motor I have the chance to pick up is an
interceptor 302 EFI.  I want to swap the EFI for a carb and I believe
that I need to swap to a non- ecc controlled ignition system....  Is
this correct and what is a good replacement..  Would like to keep it
factory looking if possible...

I know I have to change front brakes, diff, driveshaft, trans, rad, Is
there anything else?  Will a mechanical fuel pump bolt up to the 88-89
interceptor motor??  I want to say thanks in advance for any
info/ideas......

"Let the Horses Free!"
My Names Nobody - 21 Nov 2006 07:51 GMT
> Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
> I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> "Let the Horses Free!"

You are doing this project simply because you have ample time and money to
consume, right?

After many many hours worth of work, and many hundreds of dollars, you will
end up with a car not unlike a used factory V-8 Mustang you could purchase
out right for about 1/4 the cost and almost No time...

???
Bleek600 - 21 Nov 2006 11:58 GMT
> > Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
> > I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> ???

Yes, but the used factory 79 would not have the roller motor...  Plus
the cost is not much of an issue for me...  as far as the time I would
appreciate the fact that I put all the effort into building the car and
not some factory worker that does the same thing over and over
everyday...  There would be my blood sweat and tears into the car.....
Kind of kie that idea that people won't respect things if they are
given to them as opposed to them working for what they wanted...  If I
wanted to, yes I could go and buy a 5.0..  But why not work for what I
wanted...  Besides I have access to almost all the parts I would
need....        Thanks for trying to burst my bubble though...
DRAGNET - 21 Nov 2006 14:55 GMT
if the engine you plan on using is a non roller cam use 75-84 duraspark
distributor with a factory cast iron gear and if its a roller cam use
1985 only carbed distributor with the factory steel gear,as for
ignition use msd 6a or 6al ,you can also use any coil but 4,6,8 efi
coils are good. also do not use a bronze/brass distributor gear unless
its a dedicated race car.
DRAGNET - 21 Nov 2006 15:03 GMT
you'll need to use an electric fuel pump, holley blue with regulator
would be a good choice
Dave - 21 Nov 2006 15:24 GMT
>> > Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
>> > I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> > this correct and what is a good replacement..  Would like to keep it
>> > factory looking if possible...

much easier and save lots of time and money to buy a 5.0 intact, for $2k,
and dump the 79.
at least all the parts will match up.
Bleek600 - 21 Nov 2006 16:19 GMT
> >> > Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
> >> > I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> and dump the 79.
> at least all the parts will match up.

I would love to buy a 5.0 if I could find one that I wanted...  roller
valvetrain and 4bbl carb...  I would buy it...  But seeing that the
only way to get that is to either build it myself, or buy on that
someone else has built....  Whos work would you trust more? Your own or
someone wanting to get as much money as they can out of you...

The motor is a 89 302 out of a state trooper police car..  It is roller
valve. It was the patrol car that my uncle drove and ened up being
rearended by a drunk so the car was taken out of commission,    50000
mile motor for $175.00   can't pass it up.....  Complete oilpan to
intake...

Oh yeah I know alot of the people that like to find the easiest way out
of things are going to tell me "buy one" and flame me for wanting to do
my own work (so I know everything was done right and not have to tear
the car back apart like I would one that I bought....)  But people like
that normally dont appreciate as many things in life....    If I had a
silver spoon in my mouth the whole time I was growning up I would of
probably would have had my daddy buy me a 5.0 too...
Brent P - 21 Nov 2006 16:26 GMT
> The motor is a 89 302 out of a state trooper police car..  It is roller
> valve. It was the patrol car that my uncle drove and ened up being
> rearended by a drunk so the car was taken out of commission,    50000
> mile motor for $175.00   can't pass it up.....  Complete oilpan to
> intake...

Since you have access to the whole car, why not just bring over
everything you need and keep the EFI system?

Not to mention a variety of other parts from the '89 from suspension to
brakes.
Bleek600 - 21 Nov 2006 18:12 GMT
> > The motor is a 89 302 out of a state trooper police car..  It is roller
> > valve. It was the patrol car that my uncle drove and ened up being
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Not to mention a variety of other parts from the '89 from suspension to
> brakes.

I have the motor only right now...  As far as the electrical system, I
am not sure if that is still avail...  I will have to check it out.....
I just figured that switching the 79 to the efi would be a pain..  I
guess if it is a simple swap, then I would be more than happy to go
efi...  I just hate all the electrical work envolved...  I swapped a 97
LT1 into a 72 camaro and I just tired of the whole running wires and
what not for that swap and figured that it would be a quicker build if
I swapped to carb.....   I am still in the reasearch stage of the
project, so things might change.... I have the entire efi setup minus
the computer right now...    I appreciate everyones input and am taking
it all in.....  Thanks again......  I welcome as much info / opinions /
ideas as I can get.....
Brent P - 21 Nov 2006 18:56 GMT
>> Since you have access to the whole car, why not just bring over
>> everything you need and keep the EFI system?

> I have the motor only right now...  As far as the electrical system, I
> am not sure if that is still avail...  I will have to check it out.....
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> it all in.....  Thanks again......  I welcome as much info / opinions /
> ideas as I can get.....

I think in the long run you'll be better off with the EFI. The system
used on the '89 5.0L is well known, information available on it easily,
it will allow the use of other aftermarket parts on your car as it would
if it were still in the '89 mustang.

With the carb you are going to be cutting your own trail frequently and
may find a number of dead ends with regard to parts and compatibility.

Others here probably know better than me... it just seems that going the
carb route will be more difficult one in the long run.
Bleek600 - 21 Nov 2006 20:10 GMT
> >> Since you have access to the whole car, why not just bring over
> >> everything you need and keep the EFI system?
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Others here probably know better than me... it just seems that going the
> carb route will be more difficult one in the long run.

One question I have is that would a computer off a Panther platform car
work??  My neighbor has a 89 Grand Marquis with the EFI 5.0 that is
just sitting there......He would off it cheap....  If so what is all
envolved in plling the computer...  In one of the other replies a guy
said that it would pull out almost in one piece....  I would be willing
to do it then, plus if I buy that GM, I would have a spare 5.0 motor
and AOD tranny.....

All of you have helped me tremendously in the one day that I have been
a "poster" here and I really appreciate it.....  I am proud to be part
of the mustang family with people like you all......
Brent P - 21 Nov 2006 23:24 GMT
> One question I have is that would a computer off a Panther platform car
> work??  

I don't know 5.0L's well enough to say.  Junkyards should be able to
provide the computer as well.
Michael Johnson, PE - 22 Nov 2006 01:27 GMT
>>>> Since you have access to the whole car, why not just bring over
>>>> everything you need and keep the EFI system?
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> a "poster" here and I really appreciate it.....  I am proud to be part
> of the mustang family with people like you all......
Michael Johnson, PE - 21 Nov 2006 15:44 GMT
>>> Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
>>> I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> wanted...  Besides I have access to almost all the parts I would
> need....        Thanks for trying to burst my bubble though...

It's good to see you want to put some effort into a project.  Nothing
wrong with that at all.  If I were starting from scratch and building a
Mustang I would use a 351W motor.  It will fit into the Fox Chassis and
it has far more potential, and the block is stronger, than a 302.  Plus,
most of the parts like heads etc. that fit on a 302 will work on a 351W.
 You can even use the stock hood if you use engine mounts that lower
the engine in the bay.  They are available.

As for brakes, check out this site:  http://svo73mm.cjb.net/  The
information on it applies to a '79 also.  You might want to print the
information on the page because it is old and might disappear one day.
I have used information from it on my own Mustang.

Almost all the parts of the Fox chassis models are interchangeable.  I
have seen guys install the nose pieces, dashes, interior trim etc. into
the earlier models.  It takes work but anything is possible.  One thing
to do is install subframe connectors.  They will stiffen the chassis a
great deal and would be a good starting point to keep it rigid while
working on the car.  You can buy them or make them.  Mine were
fabricated by a speed shop and work great.  Also, weld them in.  Do not
bolt them on as this makes them far less effective.  There are many
other things to mention but I don't want to write a novel here.

My advice is to do plenty of research.  The web is a great place to get
ideas and nail down what you want.  Having a detailed plan BEFORE YOU
START will save you a lot of money and aggravation down the road.

One last thing, if you are going to frequently visit here, or elsewhere
on the web, grow some thicker skin.  Opinions, on Usenet especially, are
like elbows and a$$holes, everybody has them.  Some people expresses
them gently and some like to beat you over the head with them.  Don't
let the latter bother you too much.  It just isn't worth the self
inflicted agony.
Backyard Mechanic - 21 Nov 2006 16:28 GMT
> My advice is to do plenty of research.  The web is a great place to
> get ideas and nail down what you want.  Having a detailed plan BEFORE
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> with them.  Don't let the latter bother you too much.  It just isn't
> worth the self inflicted agony.

I second that... I've done several 'useless/makes no sense projects' and
I learned a lot from them.

But here's something I'd like you to consider... you say you are going to
put a carb on it:

I dont know what you're going to use the car for, but if it's for the
street... what are you going to learn from that?

Why not use this project to learn EFI?  The EECIV system is great to
learn from and the parts are readily available and cheap off wrecks.
The harness integrates easily and can be pulled and installed in
basically one piece.

And the Probst books define the system in an easily understandable
manner... even if you dont know electricity all that well.

And if you start off with a MAF system, upgrading is cheap and easy
compared to a carbed system which aftermarket is tending to migrate
toward race-type cars.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Backyard Mechanic - 21 Nov 2006 18:17 GMT
> One last thing, if you are going to frequently visit here, or elsewhere
> on the web, grow some thicker skin.  Opinions, on Usenet especially, are
> like elbows and a$$holes, everybody has them.  Some people expresses
> them gently and some like to beat you over the head with them.  Don't
> let the latter bother you too much.  It just isn't worth the self
> inflicted agony.

Cant emphasize that enough...

Projects?

Whatever floats your boat..like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OhA6AOuui8

Imagine if those guys had posted that on a BB

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Michael Johnson, PE - 21 Nov 2006 18:46 GMT
>> One last thing, if you are going to frequently visit here, or elsewhere
>> on the web, grow some thicker skin.  Opinions, on Usenet especially, are
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Imagine if those guys had posted that on a BB

Did you see that thing twist from the torque when they revved it up?
Gotta love it!
elaich - 22 Nov 2006 02:27 GMT
> Did you see that thing twist from the torque when they revved it up?
> Gotta love it!

And it was a Ford, not a freakin Ch*vy! LOL.
Bleek600 - 22 Nov 2006 12:09 GMT
> > Did you see that thing twist from the torque when they revved it up?
> > Gotta love it!
>
> And it was a Ford, not a freakin Ch*vy! LOL.

I talked to my neighbor last night and he said that I can have the
Grand Marquis...  So I have a second 5.0 motor now....  I think I might
try to throw the Panther 5.0 in to start and play with the Interceptor
motor...  The Interceptor motor is the mass air and the Grand Marquis
is not..  So the computer I have now will not work with the Mass air
anyways...  But it does look like I am going to stay EFI now.....  You
all talked me into it...  Time to start making my parts list now!!!!!
Bleek600 - 22 Nov 2006 12:13 GMT
> > Did you see that thing twist from the torque when they revved it up?
> > Gotta love it!
>
> And it was a Ford, not a freakin Ch*vy! LOL.

One more question....  What about the fuel tank and the fuel return
from the regulator...  Could I just pick up a 87+ tank?  Or can you
convert a carb tank?  Just the sending unit different???   I mean I
know I will need to run new lines, I would do that anyways though...
Thanks..  Matt
Brent P - 22 Nov 2006 13:55 GMT
> One more question....  What about the fuel tank and the fuel return
> from the regulator...  Could I just pick up a 87+ tank?  Or can you
> convert a carb tank?  Just the sending unit different???   I mean I
> know I will need to run new lines, I would do that anyways though...
> Thanks..  Matt

Probably best with a tank and fuel pump from the junk yard. Probably can
get a return line too. If not just make one out of the correct sized
tubing.
My Names Nobody - 22 Nov 2006 21:21 GMT
>> > Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
>> > I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> wanted...  Besides I have access to almost all the parts I would
> need....        Thanks for trying to burst my bubble though...

So, are you saying Ford engineering and building abilities are inferior to
your own?  How many cars have you designed, built & sold?

Having modified and bastardized damn near every aspect of a car that could
be done, I offer my very sincere, experienced point of view with you best
interest in mind, not mine.
Many decades ago, when I was 16 and asked this "old" middle aged coworker
whom had converted a automatic car to a manual transmission car for his
assistance on my project doing the same, his response was quite frustrating
to me.
He said No he would NOT help me with the project, and that if I wanted a
manual transmission car, I should buy a manual transmission car. (Keep in
mind, they DID NOT sell kits for such things back then).  I was upset and
somewhat insulted by his reply and advise.  I did that project, and
eventually a second one too, and eventually learned, what he was trying to
tell me in the first place, in retrospect, he was dead nuts on with his
advise.

If you want a  V-8 Mustang, buy one that came from the factory that way.

The acronym KISS really does apply here.  The vast majority of backyard
engineering can't hold a candle to Fords engineering.

Yes you could put an engine together, just how you want it, but why do that
with an old body that will then need all new cooling system, suspension,
transmission, rearend, fuel system (?), wheels, brakes, engine stands &
mounts, exhaust system, etc, when you could simply build an engine to your
liking, and put it right into a complete fully functional factory V-8 car?

Here is a prime example of what all of your blood, sweat and tears will
amount to in the end, a highly bastardized car that isn't worth what the
original unmolested one was.
http://ebay.com  Item number: 200049442135
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-mustang-convertable-with-1991-front-end-1999
-cobra_W0QQitemZ200049442135QQihZ010QQcategoryZ6236QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I prefer to enjoy driving my cars/trucks, not chasing my tail attempting to
reinvent the wheel.
I have turned wrenches for a living for way too many years, I like many
people, don't derive much pleasure from doing it in my off time.
If you would prefer to avoid reality & continue living in your bubble, have
at it and good luck.

Besides, your analogy is a little off, working your a.s off, saving your
hard earned money and buying the car you want is not having it given to
you...
Dr Mackeroy - 22 Nov 2006 22:52 GMT
>>> > Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
>>> > I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
> hard earned money and buying the car you want is not having it given to
> you...

agreed,
too may things have to match up, size of driveshaft,  how do you put a carb
on a 5.0 with computer? What heads wo injectors ?
you could work on it for a year and still not work, or just buy a whole 5.0
for $2 grand and drive it around for a year and mod it.
I would not use a 5.0 engine but a 350 or larger stroker, puts some meat on
it, but then you need to upgrade the frame, fuel, clutch, driveshaft, brakes
to handle the torque.
Bleek600 - 23 Nov 2006 06:22 GMT
> >>> > Hello all..   I am Matt and I live in the Grand Rapids Michigan area..
> >>> > I am in the process of geting a Mustang to build and was looking for
[quoted text clipped - 91 lines]
> it, but then you need to upgrade the frame, fuel, clutch, driveshaft, brakes
> to handle the torque.

First off I necer said I was going to redesign the car..  Just a little
resto-mod...  Everyons has their own liking and options....  Besides
this is something I WANT to do...  Not have to do...Like I said before
I welcome all comments and opinions.... If I just wanted a 5.0, yes I
would buy it... but  I want to BUILD a 5.0....
Backyard Mechanic - 24 Nov 2006 18:39 GMT
> Many decades ago, when I was 16 and asked this "old" middle aged
> coworker whom had converted a automatic car to a manual transmission
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> he was trying to tell me in the first place, in retrospect, he was
> dead nuts on with his advise.

I dont know what generation car you're talking about, there... but 'in my
day' it was the 55 - 60 Chevvies, mainly 55 thru 57.

Which I helped do 5 or 6 of... and was a relative piece of cake. The ONLY
hard to get part was the clutch-bar frame pivot.

But here's the question:  BESIDES 'that it was a waste of time and
money'.. did you LEARN ANYTHING?!!!!!

Did it give you ANY satisfaction?

Perhaps it ruined the collector value of that car... but, did you lose
any more than I did by selling my 57 BelAir 2Dr HT for TWENTY FIVE
FREAKING DOLLARS?

I got over it.. sorta.. but unless that 79 is a 2.3 turbo, and/or carries
authentic 'Pace Car' graphics, he's out NOTHING. And a stock 79 v8 is
worth near nothing.. unless it's cherry.

But he WILL learn a lot...especially if he restomods it.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Bleek600 - 28 Nov 2006 05:42 GMT
> > Many decades ago, when I was 16 and asked this "old" middle aged
> > coworker whom had converted a automatic car to a manual transmission
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
> you pay..DEAL with it!

Yes I agree...  I have paid nothing for the mustang and nothing for the
crown vic.  I just want to try to make something out of nothing...
That would be my satisfaction.....  Besides, I have done chevys, more
than my share of dodges, and now I want a Ford.....  Never too old to
learn....  Never stop learning.........  Start Disassembly of the Vic
this week........  Keep you all posted......
dave - 28 Nov 2006 15:58 GMT
> > > Many decades ago, when I was 16 and asked this "old" middle aged
> > > coworker whom had converted a automatic car to a manual transmission
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> learn....  Never stop learning.........  Start Disassembly of the Vic
> this week........  Keep you all posted......

build your own engine thats where you learn.
you've done other cars now build something special.
Your gonna spend goobs of time I hope you are still doing you schools
studies so
you can get a job doing something that you love and contributes to society
another 5.0 mustang does help anybody it won't even be that fast by todays
standards
I can appreciate your attitude you seem like a good kid.
Backyard Mechanic - 29 Nov 2006 04:36 GMT
>> > > Many decades ago, when I was 16 and asked this "old" middle aged
>> > > coworker whom had converted a automatic car to a manual
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> build your own engine thats where you learn.
> you've done other cars now build something special.

Disagree.

Built one, rebuilt several engines... learned enough.  

But what I learned in rewiring and refitting an engine control upgrade
has saved me hours of time and probably a lot of money in keeping all my
fords running.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Bleek600 - 29 Nov 2006 11:01 GMT
> >> > > Many decades ago, when I was 16 and asked this "old" middle aged
> >> > > coworker whom had converted a automatic car to a manual
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
> Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
> you pay..DEAL with it!

I am already through schooling...  I am 29..  So No probs with staying
ahead in my studies.....  Thanks guys.....  I'll be posting later this
week with disassembly news......
Bleek600 - 30 Nov 2006 18:19 GMT
> > >> > > Many decades ago, when I was 16 and asked this "old" middle aged
> > >> > > coworker whom had converted a automatic car to a manual
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> ahead in my studies.....  Thanks guys.....  I'll be posting later this
> week with disassembly news......

One more thing...  I noticed that like 79-85 had one set of engine
mounts and 86-93 had different mounts....  Will either work???  Or do I
get the 89 cause thats the year of the motor, or 79 cause that is the
year of the chassis????

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