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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / February 2007

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Way OT: New Pontiac G8  Your Thoughts?

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NoOption5L@aol.com - 14 Feb 2007 03:17 GMT
Take a look folks.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?p=918063#post918063

What's your thoughts?  Does GM have a future hit in the wings?  Will
the G8 cut into Chrysler's 300/Magnum/Charger sales?  Will GM start
carving into import sport sedan sales?  Will Ford [ever] be able to
one-up this G8?

Patrick
Les Benn - 14 Feb 2007 04:46 GMT
I hope there is a hardtop convertible model in the plans for this car, if so
I would buy it in a heart beat
> Take a look folks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Patrick
Ashton Crusher - 14 Feb 2007 05:36 GMT
>Take a look folks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Patrick

They have no future with me until they fire all their god-awful
designers and design a car that doesn't make me want to puke when I
look at it.  That eggcrate double grill is OLD and DATED looking. Plus
the car looks like the usual Pontiac collection of cheap plastic parts
glued together.  I used to love GM cars but they just have not had
their act together for a long time.
Michael Johnson - 14 Feb 2007 05:48 GMT
Anytime a new V-8, rear drive car hits the market it is a good thing,
IMO.  I would definitely consider buying one.

> Take a look folks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Patrick
Joe - 14 Feb 2007 12:22 GMT
Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
_YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:

> Anytime a new V-8, rear drive car hits the market it is a good thing,
> IMO.  I would definitely consider buying one.

Agreed.  But FWIW, my first impression upon seeing the car was
Mitsubishi meets Cadillac from the front, and Audi from the rear.  And
what's with the "G" thing?  Obviously, GM is trying to capitalize on the
G6's success, but those names don't evoke anything.  Again, US makers
should take a clue from the Japanese.

At any rate, it's interesting that the platform is Aussie.  Thank
goodness for Holden, eh?  Can you say 'GTO'?

The car appears to be more of a competitor to the 300 platform.  Ford's
got nothing in this arena.
Michael Johnson, PE - 14 Feb 2007 13:09 GMT
> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> G6's success, but those names don't evoke anything.  Again, US makers
> should take a clue from the Japanese.

I guess Pontiac thinks "more is less" when it comes to car names.

> At any rate, it's interesting that the platform is Aussie.  Thank
> goodness for Holden, eh?  Can you say 'GTO'?

It does look like a rebadged GTO now that you mention it.

> The car appears to be more of a competitor to the 300 platform.  Ford's
> got nothing in this arena.

It's time Ford dusted off the Thunderbird name and gave us a nice RWD
competitor to this and the 300C.
Joe - 14 Feb 2007 17:24 GMT
>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I guess Pontiac thinks "more is less" when it comes to car names.

21st century marketing.  Maybe dwight can comment.

>> At any rate, it's interesting that the platform is Aussie.  Thank
>> goodness for Holden, eh?  Can you say 'GTO'?
>
> It does look like a rebadged GTO now that you mention it.

I still see distinct Caddy lines though.  The G8 is more "edgy" than the
GTO was.

>> The car appears to be more of a competitor to the 300 platform.
>> Ford's got nothing in this arena.
>
> It's time Ford dusted off the Thunderbird name and gave us a nice RWD
> competitor to this and the 300C.

Interesting thought.  Take a step back and look at the makers' lines and
platforms.  DC was the first to leverage the current RWD chassis
throughout all their lines.  Now GM is setting the stage with the G8,
and Ford seems to be running a distant 3rd.
Michael Johnson - 14 Feb 2007 17:36 GMT
>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> throughout all their lines.  Now GM is setting the stage with the G8,
> and Ford seems to be running a distant 3rd.

A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle might
do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It was just
too heavy.  Other than that is I had no complaints with it.  Ford could
easily make a good T'bird off a modified Mustang platform with an IRS
rear end and even use the same engine/tranny combos.  I think it would
sell quite well.
Joe - 14 Feb 2007 18:36 GMT
>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle
> might do them some good.

Except for the V6, the CV fits the bill.  Only thing is that the
platform is prehistoric.

> The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It
> was just too heavy.  Other than that is I had no complaints with it.
> Ford could easily make a good T'bird off a modified Mustang platform
> with an IRS rear end and even use the same engine/tranny combos.  I
> think it would sell quite well.

I agree, except that Ford would have to be very careful about the
weight.  Once they stretched the chassis a bit, added IRS and other
"niceties", the car could end up being a major porker.  Bottom line is
that Ford needs to do _something_ to keep up with the Joneses.
Big Al - 14 Feb 2007 21:54 GMT
> I agree, except that Ford would have to be very careful about the
> weight.  Once they stretched the chassis a bit, added IRS and other
> "niceties", the car could end up being a major porker.  Bottom line is
> that Ford needs to do _something_ to keep up with the Joneses.

The later big (89 to 97) T-Birds had IRS.

Al
WindsorFox - 14 Feb 2007 19:37 GMT
> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle might
> do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It was just
> too heavy.  Other than that is I had no complaints with it.  Ford could
> easily make a good T'bird off a modified Mustang platform with an IRS
> rear end and even use the same engine/tranny combos.  I think it would
> sell quite well.

  BTW (OT) what was it you said PE stands for? One of my Amsoil dealers
has a PE (retired) on the end of his name.

Signature

"One hard rule of sockpuppetry is that a sockpuppet
can't be smarter than its animator."
                                     - Arny Krueger

Michael Johnson - 15 Feb 2007 01:48 GMT
>> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle
>> might do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>   BTW (OT) what was it you said PE stands for? One of my Amsoil dealers
> has a PE (retired) on the end of his name.

Professional Engineer
GILL - 15 Feb 2007 02:02 GMT
>> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle
>> might do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>   BTW (OT) what was it you said PE stands for? One of my Amsoil dealers
> has a PE (retired) on the end of his name.

I work with a bunch of PE's
I have an EE, but forget what it is.
Jason O - 15 Feb 2007 02:10 GMT
>>> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle
>>> might do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I work with a bunch of PE's
> I have an EE, but forget what it is.

I have an MBA, but forget why.

Signature

Jason

ZombyWoof - 15 Feb 2007 14:02 GMT
>>>> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle
>>>> might do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>I have an MBA, but forget why.
Master Baiters of America?

BTW -- I have an EMBA :)
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Jason O - 15 Feb 2007 02:11 GMT
>> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle
>> might do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>   BTW (OT) what was it you said PE stands for? One of my Amsoil dealers
> has a PE (retired) on the end of his name.

Penis Envy

;-)

Signature

Jason

GILL - 15 Feb 2007 02:29 GMT
>>> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle
>>> might do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> ;-)

Naw I think he has a gym in his basement and teaches phys ed.
Jason O - 15 Feb 2007 03:14 GMT
>>>> A good solid $25k-$35k (depending on options) RWD V-6/V-8 vehicle
>>>> might do them some good.  The '94 T'Bird we had was a great car.  It
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>
> Naw I think he has a gym in his basement and teaches phys ed.

Mike's a good guy here.  He'd know me as Wound Up.  What goes up must
come down.

Signature

Jason

dwight - 16 Feb 2007 03:18 GMT
>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> 21st century marketing.  Maybe dwight can comment.

Be careful. I've got comments, alright.

www.tfrog93.com - scroll down to the bottom, "Thoughts."

dwight
Joe - 16 Feb 2007 12:22 GMT
>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> dwight

So does this all mean that the Tundra's commercials are good or bad?
dwight - 16 Feb 2007 18:43 GMT
>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> So does this all mean that the Tundra's commercials are good or bad?

Depends upon your gender. The Tundra is aimed, golly gee whiz, smack dab at
the very cavemen that Geico likes to make fun of. Women need not apply.
(Speaking of which, Geico, are there NO cavewomen?)

Some pickups are aimed at the tamer members of the male population - we
don't want to be overly aggressive, such that we actually turn off those
guys that are not as resolved in their manliness. Toyota doesn't care.
They're going for the image to sell their trucks, and if you're a squeamish
customer, they don't care.

When you look at the different brands, you can immediately see which sex is
being targeted. With Ford, you only have to watch the commercial where the
woman pays for a couple of clean shirts for the guy in the Mustang behind
her. That's two Fords, but very different markets.

We're all so easily led...

dwight
Joe - 16 Feb 2007 23:51 GMT
>>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> dwight

It's human nature.  I simply accept it with a smile.  ;)

Actually, it's all very intriguing.  I watch commercials now mostly to
see the different tactics companies use to get me to buy what they're
selling.  It's very interesting watching marketing "evolve".
Michael Johnson - 17 Feb 2007 01:31 GMT
>>>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> see the different tactics companies use to get me to buy what they're
> selling.  It's very interesting watching marketing "evolve".

Since I think the Toyota Tundra commercials are good means I am a manly
man and not a girlie man? :)

Now that Dwight mentions it, nearly all of Fords car commercials appear
to be targeting women.  That might be another component to their
problem.  I don't see the Toyota car commercials as being very gender
specific.  They also have hit a grand slam home run with their Sion
brand.  They are mopping up the youth market.  I visit a Toyota
dealership quite often and they have some serious speed parts for the
Scions.

Ford started targeting the youth market with the Focus but seem to have
all but given up on it.  Toyota knows that today's Scion buyers are
tomorrow's Toyota and Lexus buyers.  Their commitment to long term
marketing strategy is going to continually erode GM and Ford's market share.

Maybe GM and Ford should take a hard look at Toyota and copy their
marketing strategies.  They obviously aren't capable of developing their
own.
Joe - 17 Feb 2007 02:40 GMT
>>>>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> Since I think the Toyota Tundra commercials are good means I am a
> manly man and not a girlie man? :)

Exactly!  BTW, have you seen the Burger King commercials?  They're the
epitome of what we're talking about here.

> Now that Dwight mentions it, nearly all of Fords car commercials
> appear to be targeting women.  That might be another component to
> their problem.

I agree.  Their marketing is pretty transparent.  I think that savvy
women will pick up on that, too.

> I don't see the Toyota car commercials as being very
> gender specific.  They also have hit a grand slam home run with their
> Sion brand.  They are mopping up the youth market.  I visit a Toyota
> dealership quite often and they have some serious speed parts for the
> Scions.

There's another thing that American makers don't pay enough attention to
- aftermarket.  There are big bucks to be made in the "personalization"
arena.

> Ford started targeting the youth market with the Focus but seem to
> have all but given up on it.  Toyota knows that today's Scion buyers
> are tomorrow's Toyota and Lexus buyers.  Their commitment to long term
> marketing strategy is going to continually erode GM and Ford's market
> share.

Michael, you hit the nail on the head.  Key phrase = "long term
marketing strategy".  It works.  American makers by and large have not
learned that yet.  Witness the frequency with which American nameplates
change.

> Maybe GM and Ford should take a hard look at Toyota and copy their
> marketing strategies.  They obviously aren't capable of developing
> their own.

Bingo.  But they need to swallow a bit of their pride first...
dwight - 17 Feb 2007 03:38 GMT
>>>>>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
> - aftermarket.  There are big bucks to be made in the "personalization"
> arena.

Scion takes two different approaches.

1) They're cheap crap. What kid, just starting out on his "career path" at a
fast food joint, wouldn't want the ability to purchase a new car? Doesn't
matter that there's no real substance, it's got four tires, comfy seats, and
it's transportation. New transportation. That's hard to resist. Throw in
some techno gadgets, and it becomes kewl, too.

2) Your personalization. When Motorola introduced the first flip phone,
there was only the one model, and everyone lusted after it. Today, I've lost
count of how many Razrs there are, or, if everyone you know already has a
Razr, there are countless other models from which to choose. So, too,
Chrysler took early hold of "niche marketing," by building limited-run
models that were different from anything your neighbor had. Scion, lacking
real substance, has taken to offering complete personalization of your
chosen model. For around $15,000, you can deck out your Scion enough to be
virtually "unique" (unique for a mass-produced vehicle, anyway).

Seems to me I can remember when the same held true for our domestic
vehicles. They were called "options" - not to be confused with the "option
packages" that are included on 90% of the vehicles coming off the assembly
lines. You used to be able to pick and choose what went into your car BEFORE
it was built. Today's options pale in comparison to what was offered 30
years ago, but today's plants are built around true mass production, true
cost-cutting, and anything out of the ordinary is discouraged. Scion is
building a line of cars on that premise, and they can do it cheaply.

>> Ford started targeting the youth market with the Focus but seem to
>> have all but given up on it.  Toyota knows that today's Scion buyers
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> learned that yet.  Witness the frequency with which American nameplates
> change.

Careful you don't fall into the same trap. To say that today's Scion buyers
will somehow evolve into Toyota/Lexus owners is arrogant thinking. How about
this: today's Scion buyers will be tomorrow's Scion owners. The compact disc
was born in 1980, as was my son. I don't think for a moment that he'll be
anything like I am now, when he's 52. A generation is now young adults with
a whole different life experience than anything we had, so there's no reason
to think that their purchases are driven by our own motivations. New
technology advances the day when cars will drive themselves with zero
emissions and automotive entertainment centers (much like I have in the
family room). Driving, for the sake of driving, is going to be a lost art,
as computers take more and more of the responsibility for safely delivering
you to your destination. PTV's. Personal Transport Vehicles. The car
recognizes you as you approach, opens the door for you, and you slide into
your seat as you speak your destination. As the restraint system envelopes
you, the vehicle begins its journey while you sit back to watch the latest
vid.

You think Scion won't build that car twenty years from now?

>> Maybe GM and Ford should take a hard look at Toyota and copy their
>> marketing strategies.  They obviously aren't capable of developing
>> their own.
>
> Bingo.  But they need to swallow a bit of their pride first...

The constant change in management at Ford (can't speak for GM) may be part
of the problem, when marketing has to be reinvented every year. As an
example, think of the endless planning meetings and millions of dollars
spent in preparation for promoting the Ford Five Hundred. But wait - it's
called "Taurus" now. Oops. Start over.

When the engineers develop a design, marketing should be brought in. When
the clay prototype is built, marketing should be there, already planning
whom to promote it to and how. When the one-off prototype is shown at the
major auto shows, marketing should be on hand to talk to the visitors,
gather feedback, test various marketing strategies, see which works best,
while all the time working the media to create a buzz. And before the first
model ever comes off the line, the marketing plan should already have been
going full steam ahead, building desire for the new product.

There is no reason why a given nameplate couldn't be marketed to several
audiences at the same time. The original Mustang was a chick car OR a
man-beast, depending upon how you chose to deck it out. The Focus could be
Ford's Scion or a chick car or an environmentalist's guilty pleasure. You
can market it three ways, but you need to be consistent.

I'll always remember and never forget something White Tornado said: "Hondas
are cars for people who don't like cars." It is so simple, it's brilliant.
NO, not everyone actually likes to drive - not by a long shot. Many are
really afraid of driving. Honda has made a name and a fortune building
non-descript, non-threatening automobiles that are marketed more as your new
best friend than as a "car." Imagine that first policy meeting when someone
said, let's build cars for all those people out there who really don't like
them... Brilliant.

(Marlboro, in the beginning, was the cigarette for housewives. How it came
to be a manly smoke and exploded in popularity is Marketing 101.)

dwight
Joe - 17 Feb 2007 14:20 GMT
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>>>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> That's hard to resist. Throw in some techno gadgets, and it becomes
> kewl, too.

The Scions look a lot more expensive than they are.  That's a major
factor IMO.

> 2) Your personalization. When Motorola introduced the first flip
> phone, there was only the one model, and everyone lusted after it.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> $15,000, you can deck out your Scion enough to be virtually "unique"
> (unique for a mass-produced vehicle, anyway).

Brilliant marketing IMO.  Additionally, loading up a wad of options
still keeps the car fairly reasonable in price.

> Seems to me I can remember when the same held true for our domestic
> vehicles. They were called "options" - not to be confused with the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> ordinary is discouraged. Scion is building a line of cars on that
> premise, and they can do it cheaply.

Good point.  Years ago, I ordered vehicles based on options I wanted,
sort of a la carte.  Nowadays it's almost unheard of to order your
vehicle from the factory.  You either take what's on the lot or move on.

>>> Ford started targeting the youth market with the Focus but seem to
>>> have all but given up on it.  Toyota knows that today's Scion buyers
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> buyers will somehow evolve into Toyota/Lexus owners is arrogant
> thinking.

To the point that they get accustomed to the brand, I don't think it's
unreasonable.  I think it's human nature to stay with something you're
comfortable with.

> How about this: today's Scion buyers will be tomorrow's
> Scion owners.

To a point.  But there comes a time where you want to "upscale".  Scions
only go so far.

> The compact disc was born in 1980, as was my son. I
> don't think for a moment that he'll be anything like I am now, when
> he's 52. A generation is now young adults with a whole different life
> experience than anything we had, so there's no reason to think that
> their purchases are driven by our own motivations.

I disagree only in the sense that the desire to improve the quality of
life will always be a part of any generation.

> New technology
> advances the day when cars will drive themselves with zero emissions
> and automotive entertainment centers (much like I have in the family
> room). Driving, for the sake of driving, is going to be a lost art,
> as computers take more and more of the responsibility for safely
> delivering you to your destination.

I think there will always be a segment that wants to "drive" (i.e.,
sports/sporty/muscle cars will always be made), but the schism between
the lazies and the drivers will increase.

> PTV's. Personal Transport
> Vehicles. The car recognizes you as you approach, opens the door for
> you, and you slide into your seat as you speak your destination. As
> the restraint system envelopes you, the vehicle begins its journey
> while you sit back to watch the latest vid.

dwight, I know it's cold up there, but you might want to get out for a
bit and stop watching all those movies in your entertainment center.  ;)

> You think Scion won't build that car twenty years from now?

If Scion is building that car, you can bet everyone else will be too.  
They might not even be known as "cars" by then...

>>> Maybe GM and Ford should take a hard look at Toyota and copy their
>>> marketing strategies.  They obviously aren't capable of developing
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> marketing plan should already have been going full steam ahead,
> building desire for the new product.

Agreed.  To further the point, the entire experience should be a team
experience.  It shouldn't just start with a core group and then bring in
another group that inherits the first group's efforts and so on.

> There is no reason why a given nameplate couldn't be marketed to
> several audiences at the same time. The original Mustang was a chick
> car OR a man-beast, depending upon how you chose to deck it out. The
> Focus could be Ford's Scion or a chick car or an environmentalist's
> guilty pleasure. You can market it three ways, but you need to be
> consistent.

I don't know if today's market supports that.  You yourself brought up
the point that today's youth are not at all like we were growing up.  
Today's youth has the attention span of a gnat, demand instant
gratification, and expect a disposable product delivered on a gold
platter.  As you've pointed out, witness the Razr.

> I'll always remember and never forget something White Tornado said:
> "Hondas are cars for people who don't like cars." It is so simple,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> that first policy meeting when someone said, let's build cars for all
> those people out there who really don't like them... Brilliant.

That's my wife in a nutshell.  She hates to drive, she views cars as
tools to be used to get from here to there.  She doesn't even put gas in
her van - that's my job (for which I'm handsomely rewarded, btw).  She
loves the Shoebox ('96 Mazda MPV) because it is exactly what you
described.

> (Marlboro, in the beginning, was the cigarette for housewives. How it
> came to be a manly smoke and exploded in popularity is Marketing 101.)

It does have a "manly" name.  Now if Tim Hardaway smoked, I'll bet he'd
smoke Marlboros...  ;)

> dwight
dwight - 17 Feb 2007 19:57 GMT
>> PTV's. Personal Transport
>> Vehicles. The car recognizes you as you approach, opens the door for
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> dwight, I know it's cold up there, but you might want to get out for a
> bit and stop watching all those movies in your entertainment center.  ;)

Movies? Me? No, Law and Order reruns 24 hours a day.

It's warming up today - probably hitting 30 about now. I was out this
morning chipping at the ice, tidying up the walk and driveway. I dug out
TFrog, moved the plowed snow away from the storm drain, and dug out access
to my mailbox, so the mailman doesn't have to get out of the truck.

Anything that thaws today will refreeze for the next couple of days, then
we're expecting a heat wave (high 30s). When this stuff start to melt, all
that water has to go somewhere.

Oh, and I've been cheating the past several days. Used Jean's Escape, which
is a blast in snow. (She was down in Mexico City, so she doesn't have to
know.)

dwight
Joe - 18 Feb 2007 17:45 GMT
>>> PTV's. Personal Transport
>>> Vehicles. The car recognizes you as you approach, opens the door for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Movies? Me? No, Law and Order reruns 24 hours a day.

Which reminds me to ask you - which variation(s) is/are your favorites?  
I'm still partial to the original, although I do miss Jerry.

> It's warming up today - probably hitting 30 about now. I was out this
> morning chipping at the ice, tidying up the walk and driveway. I dug
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> dwight

You mean she doesn't read this ng??  ;)
dwight - 19 Feb 2007 00:26 GMT
>>>> PTV's. Personal Transport
>>>> Vehicles. The car recognizes you as you approach, opens the door for
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Which reminds me to ask you - which variation(s) is/are your favorites?
> I'm still partial to the original, although I do miss Jerry.

No question, it's the original. I miss Jerry, too, and McCoy is getting a
bit long in the tooth (what is he, MY age?). Orbach's death has led to a
string of unsuccessful replacements, none of which "stuck." Anyway, close
second is CI. Love that bug man from Men in Black...

>> It's warming up today - probably hitting 30 about now. I was out this
>> morning chipping at the ice, tidying up the walk and driveway. I dug
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> You mean she doesn't read this ng??  ;)

Hah! What newsgroup? She thinks I just get a lot of email.

dwight
Michael Johnson, PE - 19 Feb 2007 17:53 GMT
>>>>>>>><snip>
>>>>> bad?
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Exactly!  BTW, have you seen the Burger King commercials?  They're the
> epitome of what we're talking about here.

The BK commercials are good for a chuckle.  Even my wife thinks they are
funny.

>> Now that Dwight mentions it, nearly all of Fords car commercials
>> appear to be targeting women.  That might be another component to
>> their problem.
>
> I agree.  Their marketing is pretty transparent.  I think that savvy
> women will pick up on that, too.

I do watch the Mercury commercials because the woman they have doing
them is hot. ;)

>> I don't see the Toyota car commercials as being very
>> gender specific.  They also have hit a grand slam home run with their
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> learned that yet.  Witness the frequency with which American nameplates
> change.

I bet the Scion/Toyota/Lexus combination has one of the highest repeat
buyer percentages in the world.

>> Maybe GM and Ford should take a hard look at Toyota and copy their
>> marketing strategies.  They obviously aren't capable of developing
>> their own.
>
> Bingo.  But they need to swallow a bit of their pride first...

Sometimes I think they first need to realize they are getting their
a.ses kicked.  They certainly don't act like they know it.
WindsorFox - 17 Feb 2007 17:14 GMT
>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> dwight

  "....despite the fact that they're indistinguishable from each other."
ROFLMAO.

Signature

"One hard rule of sockpuppetry is that a sockpuppet
can't be smarter than its animator."
                                     - Arny Krueger

ZombyWoof - 15 Feb 2007 00:18 GMT
>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>It does look like a rebadged GTO now that you mention it.

Maybe that has to do with it being developed by Holden just like the
GTO.  The GTO was always supposed to have been just a stopgap care
until the newly architected global rear-wheel-drive platform came out.
Guess this is it.

>> The car appears to be more of a competitor to the 300 platform.  Ford's
>> got nothing in this arena.
>
>It's time Ford dusted off the Thunderbird name and gave us a nice RWD
>competitor to this and the 300C.

Ford could dust-off quite a few things, but I doubt this Pontiac
offering is any styling threat to the 300C.  Even to me a die-hard old
school Pontiac guy its ugly.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Michael Johnson - 15 Feb 2007 01:47 GMT
>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> until the newly architected global rear-wheel-drive platform came out.
> Guess this is it.

It is starting to sound like this car is another stop-gap measure too.
I hope its not just another warmed over aging chassis from down under.

>>> The car appears to be more of a competitor to the 300 platform.  Ford's
>>> got nothing in this arena.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> offering is any styling threat to the 300C.  Even to me a die-hard old
> school Pontiac guy its ugly.

My guess is the 300C is in a different class than the new Pontiac.
Especially since it is rooted in a Mercedes chassis and drive train.
ZombyWoof - 15 Feb 2007 14:04 GMT
>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>My guess is the 300C is in a different class than the new Pontiac.
>Especially since it is rooted in a Mercedes chassis and drive train.

Did you read the article that Daimler maybe looking to spin-off
Chrysler?
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Michael Johnson - 15 Feb 2007 14:59 GMT
>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Did you read the article that Daimler maybe looking to spin-off
> Chrysler?

Yeah, I did.  It looks like it will happen since the article I read said
absorbing them into Mercedes wasn't a popular idea.  It wouldn't
surprise me that when the dust settles the "Big Three" will become the
"Big Two".
Joe - 15 Feb 2007 15:11 GMT
>>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> surprise me that when the dust settles the "Big Three" will become the
> "Big Two".

And not long after that the Big Two will become the Big Zero if they
don't get their acts together.
Michael Johnson - 15 Feb 2007 15:38 GMT
>>>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> And not long after that the Big Two will become the Big Zero if they
> don't get their acts together.

LOL!  While I was typing that response to ZW I was thinking the same
thing.  I can't understand how Ford and GM can continually make bone
head moves.  I figured they would have stopped the erosion in their
market share by now.  I also think a great deal of their trouble comes
from them ignoring the car market to sell SUVs.  Now that strategy is
biting them in the a$$.

Have you seen the new Toyota truck commercials?  They are hitting a
bullseye with them, IMO.  Plus the trucks are good.  Showing the large
pinion gears in the rear end, big brakes, very good acceleration etc.
will get crossovers from the Ford and GM crowd.  If Toyota breaks into
the work truck market in a big way Ford and GM will be in big trouble.
It is the last area of dominance that they have left.

I don't know who is calling the shots at Toyota but damn if they don't
have the American market and consumer figured out in detail.  There's no
reason Ford and GM can't do the same.
Joe - 15 Feb 2007 23:30 GMT
Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:hJadnT9-
y90Y40nYnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@giganews.com:

>>>>>>>> Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:S5CdnbeLWLYkP0
>>>>>>>> _YnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> from them ignoring the car market to sell SUVs.  Now that strategy is
> biting them in the a$$.

As usual, Michael, right on the money.

> Have you seen the new Toyota truck commercials?  They are hitting a
> bullseye with them, IMO.  Plus the trucks are good.  Showing the large
> pinion gears in the rear end, big brakes, very good acceleration etc.
> will get crossovers from the Ford and GM crowd.  If Toyota breaks into
> the work truck market in a big way Ford and GM will be in big trouble.
> It is the last area of dominance that they have left.

Absolutely.  In fact, I'm seriously thinking about giving the Dak to my
son in a year or so, as the LX is about to be put out to pasture until
it becomes a restomod.  Since the Dak is my daily, I'll need something
to replace it.  Having seen the Tundra commercials, I find myself
wanting to know more about them.

> I don't know who is calling the shots at Toyota but damn if they don't
> have the American market and consumer figured out in detail.  There's no
> reason Ford and GM can't do the same.

IMO, that's all marketing backed up by honest product.  To be fair, all
that Toyota did was copy the American makers' truck marketing and put
their own spin on it.  It's novel because we're not used to seeing
Toyotas being sold that way.

I'd really like to get dwight's take on all this marketing stuff.
Big Al - 14 Feb 2007 14:47 GMT
>  Again, US makers
> should take a clue from the Japanese.

And call it a Corolla, or Cressida?? :) Wait, the new Pontiac Yaris, or how
about Murano, now that has a ring:)

Al
Joe - 14 Feb 2007 18:28 GMT
>>  Again, US makers
>> should take a clue from the Japanese.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Al

Heh, I loved the thread about the Moron-Oh.  At least the Japs have
names instead of numbers.  And that G8 should've been called the
Bonneville.
WindsorFox - 14 Feb 2007 14:55 GMT
> Take a look folks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Patrick

   Still a tad on the boring looking side. I think that was the biggest
problem with the GTO. This must be the newest Holden being imported that
a guy from Au I know was talking about.

Signature

"One hard rule of sockpuppetry is that a sockpuppet
can't be smarter than its animator."
                                     - Arny Krueger

.boB - 14 Feb 2007 16:25 GMT
> Take a look folks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Patrick

    Exciting performance.  Uninspiring styling.
Another jelly bean sedan.
    With just a little bit of work, it would make a
fun TT car.

Signature

.boB
2006 FXDI hot rod
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra -  427W EFI, Damn Fast.

WindsorFox - 14 Feb 2007 19:35 GMT
>> Take a look folks.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>     Exciting performance.  Uninspiring styling. Another jelly bean sedan.
>     With just a little bit of work, it would make a fun TT car.

  That's it! I could never put my finger on it, but it looks like a
JellyBelly.

Signature

"One hard rule of sockpuppetry is that a sockpuppet
can't be smarter than its animator."
                                     - Arny Krueger

ZombyWoof - 15 Feb 2007 00:13 GMT
>Take a look folks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Patrick

Well I used to be a big Pontiac guy, and I thinks its butt ugly.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Jason O - 15 Feb 2007 01:10 GMT
> Take a look folks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Patrick

It's a big Grand Am.  It's the GTO redux.  I am thoroughly nonplussed.
What makes them think it'll work this time, Grand Am sales?

Signature

Jason

.boB - 15 Feb 2007 01:44 GMT
> Take a look folks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Patrick

   Perforamnce:  Pretty good.
   Styling:  Uninspiring, jally bean blahhh.  Looks
like a GTO.

   But, it would be fund to take to the track for some
hot laps.

Signature

.boB
2006 FXDI hot rod
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra -  427W EFI, Damn Fast.

 
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