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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / April 2007

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dirt in the plug holes

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Ashton Crusher - 25 Mar 2007 00:45 GMT
    I just replaced the plugs on two different 4.6L in a 99 and 01
GT.  In both cases there was a lot of grit type dirt down in the plug
holes that had gotten past the spark plug boot seal.  I shudder to
think of all the grit that's going into these engines when the corner
garage is doing the plug replacements as I doubt they spend much time
blowing out the plug holes before changing the plugs.
Michael Johnson - 25 Mar 2007 01:22 GMT
>     I just replaced the plugs on two different 4.6L in a 99 and 01
> GT.  In both cases there was a lot of grit type dirt down in the plug
> holes that had gotten past the spark plug boot seal.  I shudder to
> think of all the grit that's going into these engines when the corner
> garage is doing the plug replacements as I doubt they spend much time
> blowing out the plug holes before changing the plugs.

I don't think it is a serious issue.  Think of the old days when there
were no boot seals at all.  This is the way it is on my '89 LX and it
has over 150k hard driven miles on it.  There are more 5.0L engines with
200,000+ miles than I can count.  My guess is water seepage  might cause
more harm than grit.  Also, a small bit of grit in the combustion
chamber would be blown into the exhaust so fast it wouldn't get a chance
to cause too much damage.
Ashton Crusher - 25 Mar 2007 07:43 GMT
>>     I just replaced the plugs on two different 4.6L in a 99 and 01
>> GT.  In both cases there was a lot of grit type dirt down in the plug
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>chamber would be blown into the exhaust so fast it wouldn't get a chance
>to cause too much damage.

I've changed a lot of spark plugs and this is completely different.
The 4.6 has DEEP, almost vertical holes that are not much bigger in
dia then the plugs.  The 5.0 had wide open spaces by comparison and
for the most part any grit near the plug would fall off as you
unscrewed the plug.  With the 4.6 if the grit does fall off as you
unscrew the plug it's almost guaranteed that a good portion of it will
fall in the cylinder.   The two 4.6s I did the plugs on had about ten
times as much grit around the plug as any other vehicle I've worked
on.
My Name Is Nobody - 25 Mar 2007 09:22 GMT
>>> I just replaced the plugs on two different 4.6L in a 99 and 01
>>> GT.  In both cases there was a lot of grit type dirt down in the plug
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> times as much grit around the plug as any other vehicle I've worked
> on.

Is that something a shot of compressed air couldn't blow out before the plug
is removed?
Jim Warman - 25 Mar 2007 16:05 GMT
Occasionally, we will see some pieces of grit that can wiggle it's way to
the bottom of the hole and wedge itself in between the spark plug and the
head - defying all efforts, it would seem, of removal. However, a
conscientious worker can remove even the most difficult pieces with common
sense and patience.

The usual process (for me, at least).... Blow the top of the engine clear of
dust and grit. Remove the COPs and blow out the holes and inspect. Any that
have debris, back the plug out one turn and blow again. If there is anything
left, I use a piece of thinwall tubing that fits down the spark plug well -
serations are cut in the end of the tube so it resembles a very deep hole
saw... done deal...

Now, a few side notes.... I don't know why it is, but the moment we start
discussing automotive service techs, so many people "expect" that there is
an abject lack of integrity. When I need to spend extra time clearing the
plug wells of debris, I expect to get paid for my time.... but I will be
regarded as a thieving a.shole because another shop would have done the job
cheaper. OK, so I don't clean the debris out of the plug well (bacuase
someone wont pay the extra time), I am now a careless, thieving a.shole 
because, I suppose, the shop down the street wouldn't have found the dirt
that I did (amazing how that works).

There are three main reasons why dirt and grit can migrate into the plug
holes... In our area, the top of a work vehicle engine often resembles a
swamp as dirt and water are forced up on to the top of the engine. As the
engine cools, dirty water is drawn into the plug well. A second way involves
the careless use of a pressure washer which can drive the dirt into the plug
well and the third is failing to practice good housekeeping at the beginning
of the job.

I don't think a tech is any more likely to ignore the presence of debris in
the plug well than a DIYer.

FWIW, if some small debris does escape the watchful eye, it isn't going to
cause any more damage than the errant pieces of carbon that pass through our
cylinders every day.... from pieces that flake off the piston and valve
stems, to those pieces that are carried through during times of EGR flow....
This is no reason to ignore the pieces that we do see, but it adds balance
to those pieces that we don't....
Ashton Crusher - 26 Mar 2007 06:52 GMT
>>>> I just replaced the plugs on two different 4.6L in a 99 and 01
>>>> GT.  In both cases there was a lot of grit type dirt down in the plug
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>Is that something a shot of compressed air couldn't blow out before the plug
>is removed?

Yup.  I blew the hell out of them.  Also sprayed brake cleaner into
the hole and blew them out a second time.
Michael Johnson - 25 Mar 2007 17:34 GMT
>>>     I just replaced the plugs on two different 4.6L in a 99 and 01
>>> GT.  In both cases there was a lot of grit type dirt down in the plug
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> times as much grit around the plug as any other vehicle I've worked
> on.

The newer engines can get more grit than the older ones but like Jim
stated a little diligence will take care of most of the problem.
Mechanics probably see this all the time since most new cars have these
types of plug arrangements.  I doubt many of them let too much, if any,
dirt in the combustion chamber.  This advice is better steered at the
DIY'ers as they have little experience changing plugs.  Plus this is not
a task that one completes on a regular basis.  Most plugs in newer cars
nowadays are good for 100,000 miles easy.  Besides, a little grit
falling into a combustion chamber isn't going to be the cause of an
engine rebuild.  It is good that you made us aware of this though.
Jim Warman - 25 Mar 2007 18:08 GMT
Michael is quite right... when I first entered this trade, the spark plugs
would come out of a car pretty much twice a year.... along with points and
condenser. We would clean and regap the plugs but, more often than not,
replace the points and condenser... though I've filed more sets of points
than I care to remember.

These days, it is rare for our shop to change points (this is SuperDuty
diesel land, up here).... It's been about three years since I last had plugs
out of a motor in the shop....

One thing worth mentioning, when it comes to Ford cylinder heads, at least,
is the importance of torquing the plugs on installation.... This is a sore
point with me since I am positive that too many "professional" techs aren't
doing this. Spark plug torque valus are listed as 13 ft/lb for the 4.6/2V,
11ft/lb for the 4V engines and (I'm a little leery of this since it seems
uncharacteristically high) 25 ft/lb for the 3V engines. Proper torque is
essntial if we are to avoid splark plug insert or cylinder head concerns.
Spike - 26 Mar 2007 16:30 GMT
>    I just replaced the plugs on two different 4.6L in a 99 and 01
>GT.  In both cases there was a lot of grit type dirt down in the plug
>holes that had gotten past the spark plug boot seal.  I shudder to
>think of all the grit that's going into these engines when the corner
>garage is doing the plug replacements as I doubt they spend much time
>blowing out the plug holes before changing the plugs.

DIY and then you have nobody to blame but yourself. Aside from the
fact that some of the rides require the engine to be dismantled just
to reach the plugs, that is..... :0)
Dave J - 04 Apr 2007 23:39 GMT
Speaking of DIY, I'm in the midst of replacing the plugs on my '98 GT.
I was rolling right along until I got to the inner rear two plugs on
the passenger side.

With some wiggling and moving a protecting bracket protecting some
hoses, I was able to replace the rear-most pax side plug with
difficulty. However, the next one forward, umm, I just can't figure
that puppy out. It seems like I need to remove the fuel rail to get a
socket wrench in there. That can't be right, though.

I have never changed my plugs myself before. I used to do it with my
dad when I was little, and well, engines were different then -- easy
access.

Is there some kind of trick to this? I'm about to go to the store to
buy some kind of articulated socket extension, to see if that helps
me.

Any pointers are highly valued. I feel like an idiot. 7/8ths of the
work done.

-- dave j
Spike - 07 Apr 2007 19:29 GMT
>Speaking of DIY, I'm in the midst of replacing the plugs on my '98 GT.
>I was rolling right along until I got to the inner rear two plugs on
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>-- dave j

No reason to feel like an idiot just because Ford provided job
security for shops :0) (Don't get yer shorts in a knot, Warman... :0)

The Mustang II 302 4V w/CA smog and AC I had many years ago was that
way. Now I have a car I can darn near stand in the engine well to work
on it. Well, maybe not quite that good, but changing plugs is no
problem.

I have had a couple of cars where it was obvious all the plugs had
been changed EXCEPT one....

The articulated fitting may help. I've even used a couple of them
together at times to get into some tight places.

Today I picked up my new steering column from the paint shop. Thus
begins the change to power rack and pinion, , PS pump, braided lines,
tilt column, cruise control.... DYI.....  I imagine by the time I'm
done, I will have bruised, scraped, knuckles and used a lot of swear
words I didn't know I knew. :0)
Dave J - 07 Apr 2007 23:27 GMT
In the end, with a variety of extensions to choose from (3", 6", and
10") and the u-bolt articulated thingy, I was able to get all the
plugs out without removing anything other than the air duct.

Of course, I did indeed scrape each and every knuckle, but I did get
it done, and feel bad for having saved a few bucks. Also changed the
wires (nice, no tools) and changed the serpentine belt (which I had
thought would be more difficult than the plugs, but with the breaker
bar took about 5 minutes.)

Good luck with all your updates!

-- dave j
Brent P - 08 Apr 2007 01:50 GMT
> In the end, with a variety of extensions to choose from (3", 6", and
> 10") and the u-bolt articulated thingy, I was able to get all the
> plugs out without removing anything other than the air duct.

On second thought I may have had to disconnect the intake hose... but
that's so minor it doesn't even register in memory.
Brent P - 08 Apr 2007 01:48 GMT

> With some wiggling and moving a protecting bracket protecting some
> hoses, I was able to replace the rear-most pax side plug with
> difficulty. However, the next one forward, umm, I just can't figure
> that puppy out. It seems like I need to remove the fuel rail to get a
> socket wrench in there. That can't be right, though.

Get a universal joint and extenders of various lengths for your socket
wrench. I can get at all eight on my '97 without removing anything but
the plug boots on the wires that way. I just have 3/8th extender set from
craftsman and the universal joint as well. Just takes mixing and matching
until I have something that can get in there.
 
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