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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / April 2007"King Of The Road" Returns With 540HP
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 Patrick > http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity to keep the prices reasonable instead of offering another high priced Mustang variant. This is why Ford is loosing me as a loyal customer. They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they go bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us about the production numbers of the GT500. The only reason they are coming out with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere and out of reach for most Mustang enthusiasts. Screw them. When is the Camaro due to hit the showroom floor? Maybe they want my money and not an arm and a leg too. >> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Camaro due to hit the showroom floor? Maybe they want my money and not > an arm and a leg too. Send thousands of "Clones" to the streets, maybe the "got to have" would die off for these people who are paying top dollar. >> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us about the > production numbers of the GT500. I hate to say "I told you so", but... > The only reason they are coming out > with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere and > out of reach for most Mustang enthusiasts. Exactly. More "limited production" stuff. Just what we need. NOT! > Screw them. When is the > Camaro due to hit the showroom floor? Maybe they want my money and not > an arm and a leg too. Indeed. The next few years should prove very interesting. Lots of stuff happening - Chrysler's impending sale, Ford/GM's impending doom, Toyota about to mop up the domestic truck market, and vehicles like the Camaro and Challenger about to make an appearance. >>> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 >> Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I hate to say "I told you so", but... Ahhhh.... go ahead. You deserve it! ;) >> The only reason they are coming out >> with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere and >> out of reach for most Mustang enthusiasts. > > Exactly. More "limited production" stuff. Just what we need. NOT! This is just a blatant move to keep prices up. I didn't mind them getting ridiculous money for the first run of GT500s but this shows that they planned to gouge the first buyers and then manipulate the product line to keep it going. Like I said, screw them. I give Ford a 50/50 chance, at best, of surviving another 5-10 years without being some other car brands bitch (i.e. controlled by another entity). If that happens I won't shed one tear for them. Considering the greed of the UAW and the stupidity of Ford's management they deserve whatever they get. >> Screw them. When is the >> Camaro due to hit the showroom floor? Maybe they want my money and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Toyota about to mop up the domestic truck market, and vehicles like the > Camaro and Challenger about to make an appearance. I'm definitely going to look at all options when it comes time to buy. Right now I have zero loyalty left for Ford's vehicles. We have bought nothing but Fords for the last 15+ years with the exception of one Nissan (240SX convertible). The Nissan was just an impulse buy from a guy in the neighborhood. My wife wants a new SUV around the first of the year and we are about 90% sure it will be a Toyota. They make good vehicles that have great resale value and I personally know a guy that owns two Toyota dealerships so getting a good price and excellent service will be a given. When I turn to the Dark Side you know Ford is in deep sh.t. >>>> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 >>> Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Ahhhh.... go ahead. You deserve it! ;) "I told you so!" :) >>> The only reason they are coming out >>> with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the UAW and the stupidity of Ford's management they deserve whatever > they get. I'm right with you. >>> Screw them. When is the >>> Camaro due to hit the showroom floor? Maybe they want my money and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > one Nissan (240SX convertible). The Nissan was just an impulse buy > from a guy in the neighborhood. Given today's economy, I have to consider every brand. Brand loyalty is simply being shortsighted IMO. > My wife wants a new SUV around the first of the year and we are about > 90% sure it will be a Toyota. They make good vehicles that have great > resale value and I personally know a guy that owns two Toyota > dealerships so getting a good price and excellent service will be a > given. When I turn to the Dark Side you know Ford is in deep sh.t. I hear you, Michael. I'm in the same boat, in that I'm seriously considering another truck, and the Ram was my number one choice until I looked at the Tundra in depth. At the car show last week, I sat in all four trucks (F150, Silverado, Ram, Tundra), and priced them with top-of- the-line engines. The clear theoretical winner was the Toyota followed up by the Ram. I didn't like the Ford's interior, and the Chevy was priced out of this world. >>>>> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 >>>> Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > up by the Ram. I didn't like the Ford's interior, and the Chevy was > priced out of this world. Toyota is finally getting serious with their full sized truck. All it will take is for Ford to screw up one time and they will be there waiting like vultures to pick up buyers. Even if Ford doesn't screw up they will erode their market share year after year like they are doing with the car market and once they get it they won't give it up. Toyota has figured out what sells full sized trucks and they are zeroing in on that market segment like a laser. Plus, their trucks are actually getting much better with every new model introduction. IMO, Toyota's long term marketing strategy will probably win the day in the end. They are long distance runners, not sprinters and short term profit whores like Ford appears to be. > Indeed. The next few years should prove very interesting. Lots of > stuff happening - Chrysler's impending sale, Ford/GM's impending doom, GM is on the upswing. They're going to make it. Ford on the other hand... I think Mike nailed the odds when he said a 50/50 survival rate. Ford has continued to do some stupid stuff. Most recent case in point, their new tall wagon, they removed the show version's clam- shell rear doors and then named the vehicle the "Flex". > Toyota about to mop up the domestic truck market, I thought it was interesting C&D rated the new Silverado #1 and the new Toyota pickup #2. When was the last time you saw a GM product beat a brand new Toyota? > and vehicles like the Camaro and Challenger about to make an appearance. I have a feeling the new Challenger will be overpriced and overweight. And I think if GM sweats the small details the Camaro will be an awesome pony car. Patrick > I have a feeling the new Challenger will be overpriced and > overweight. And I think if GM sweats the small details the Camaro > will be an awesome pony car. If it doesn't turn out to be a FWD I4/V6 car like they've done with most of the classic nameplates... ;) > In article <1175388080.317793.258190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > NoOption5L@aol.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If it doesn't turn out to be a FWD I4/V6 car like they've done with > most of the classic nameplates... ;) Have you been hiding under a rock? Its RWD drivetrain has been plastered all over the Internet... >> In article <1175388080.317793.258190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >> NoOption5L@aol.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Have you been hiding under a rock? Its RWD drivetrain has been > plastered all over the Internet... Note the ';)'. just making a joke at GM's habbit of putting classic nameplates on FWD cars... >> Indeed. The next few years should prove very interesting. Lots of >> stuff happening - Chrysler's impending sale, Ford/GM's impending >> doom, > > GM is on the upswing. They're going to make it. Some of their divisions may not - this merits watching. > Ford on the other > hand... I think Mike nailed the odds when he said a 50/50 survival > rate. Agreed. > Ford has continued to do some stupid stuff. Most recent case in > point, their new tall wagon, they removed the show version's clam- > shell rear doors and then named the vehicle the "Flex". This wasn't at the show last weekend, but from what I've seen on the Internet it's ridiculous. >> Toyota about to mop up the domestic truck market, > > I thought it was interesting C&D rated the new Silverado #1 and the > new Toyota pickup #2. When was the last time you saw a GM product > beat a brand new Toyota? I don't know what they based the test on, but the Tundra wipes up the Silverado hands down IMO. I checkout out all the full size trucks last week, and the 6.0 Silverado 4-door was about $4000 more than a comparable Tundra. The Tundra's got the most powerful engine, more standard features, and tons more room in the back seat. >> and vehicles like the Camaro and Challenger about to make an >> appearance. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Patrick It'll certainly be a formidable competitor to the Mustang if they price it right. The Mustang GT is still a helluva bargain. <snip> > I thought it was interesting C&D rated the new Silverado #1 and the > new Toyota pickup #2. When was the last time you saw a GM product > beat a brand new Toyota? Patrick, check this out: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=119281 Forgot to include it in the last post... <snip> > Patrick > <snip> >> I thought it was interesting C&D rated the new Silverado #1 and the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Forgot to include it in the last post... Here's what really impressed me with the Tundra: "It's spectacular, delivering its test-topping 381 hp and 401 lb-ft of torque in an effortless, silken flood, hurling the Tundra to 60 mph in 6.3 seconds and through the quarter-mile in a remarkable 14.8 seconds at 93.7 mph." Going 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and running the 1/4 mile in 14.8 seconds! Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:e6Kdned4D- JcdZLbnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com: >> <snip> >>> I thought it was interesting C&D rated the new Silverado #1 and the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Going 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and running the 1/4 mile in 14.8 seconds! And it weighs well over 5000 lb. to boot. The six-speed tranny is also nice. The only thing I'm wary of is that it's a whole new truck and a whole new drivetrain. Next year should tell a better story of how this truck fares against the competition. > Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:e6Kdned4D- > JcdZLbnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > whole new drivetrain. Next year should tell a better story of how this > truck fares against the competition. If it were a DC, Ford or Chevy that might be a concern. The Tundra has been around for a while and I'm sure much of the old trucks are tweaked and migrated to the new one. Toyota is good about making a vehicle ready for production. It is one of the main reasons they are kicking Ford, GM and Chrysler's a.ses. > > Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity to > > keep the prices reasonable instead of offering another high priced > > Mustang variant. This is why Ford is loosing me as a loyal customer. > > They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they go > > bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us about the > > production numbers of the GT500. > I hate to say "I told you so", but... Note: Ford plans to build 1,000 "KR's this year and the number of regular GT500s was supposed to be around 10,000 with no set end number. Production numbers for the '68 version: GT500 Fastback 1,140 units, GT500 Convertible 402 units, GT500KR Fastback 933 units, GT500KR Convertible 318 units. Patrick >>> Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity to >>> keep the prices reasonable instead of offering another high priced [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > GT500 Convertible 402 units, GT500KR Fastback 933 units, GT500KR > Convertible 318 units. Has Ford made available the running production number for the GT500? I'm curious to know how many have actually been shipped to dealers. NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1175442562.288644.27410 @y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: >> > Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity to >> > keep the prices reasonable instead of offering another high priced [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Patrick The old vs. new production numbers aren't the issue; it's Ford not making these new cars available to the general public. I'd love to see real production and sales numbers for the GT500... > The old vs. new production numbers aren't the issue; it's Ford not > making these new cars available to the general public. Exactly. In all my reading on mustangs I've never heard of there being an availability issue for the shelby mustangs and huge dealer mark ups. Apparently when they made only 1,000 that's because there were only a 1,000 buyers unless it was a model that was there just to make a racing quota. Remember, the there are 1970 shelby mustangs that were LEFT OVER 69s. There was a lot more to choose from and considerably fewer people in the market back then. > I'd love to see real production and sales numbers for the GT500... I do tend to wonder how many have actually been made as well. > Note: Ford plans to build 1,000 "KR's this year and the number of > regular GT500s was supposed to be around 10,000 with no set end > number. I'll believe it when I see it. > Production numbers for the '68 version: GT500 Fastback 1,140 units, > GT500 Convertible 402 units, GT500KR Fastback 933 units, GT500KR > Convertible 318 units. And I've seen more of those in the flesh than I have new GT500s. >> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 > Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity to > keep the prices reasonable instead of offering another high priced > Mustang variant. This is why Ford is loosing me as a loyal customer. They've probably lost me as well. All this time waiting for the price to go down has me not being so interested any more. By the time it gets to sticker I may have none left for the car. > They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they go > bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us about the > production numbers of the GT500. The momement they said they were going distribute the cars by dealer allotment I knew this was going happen and caught a lot flak in here for it. Ford has no desire to bring any car to market that's worth buying without controlling production to the point that the price doesn't go through the roof at the dealership. > The only reason they are coming out > with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere and > out of reach for most Mustang enthusiasts. Screw them. When is the > Camaro due to hit the showroom floor? Maybe they want my money and not > an arm and a leg too. I am waiting for Ford to pull the plug on the GT500. At some point before dealer prices hit sticker IMO they are going to say they 'can't afford to build the low production model anymore' or they are going to say there haven't been enough sales, or some lame a.s excuse and cancel it. The fact they moved the SVT chief elsewhere has me thinking they are heading that way. The local chevy dealer always has a good number of corvettes in stock. Never saw a GT500 at the local Ford dealer. On Apr 1, 12:14 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: > > NoOptio...@aol.com wrote: > >>http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 > > Maybe Ford should think about providing GT500s in a decent quantity to > > keep the prices reasonable instead of offering another high priced > > Mustang variant. This is why Ford is loosing me as a loyal customer. > They've probably lost me as well. All this time waiting for the price to > go down has me not being so interested any more. By the time it gets to > sticker I may have none left for the car. > > They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they go > > bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us about the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > without controlling production to the point that the price doesn't go > through the roof at the dealership. I've seen a couple at the dealers in my neck of the woods. And just yesterday saw a red 'vert cruising the streets. Don't know what they're paying for them though. > > The only reason they are coming out > > with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere and > > out of reach for most Mustang enthusiasts. Screw them. When is the > > Camaro due to hit the showroom floor? Maybe they want my money and not > > an arm and a leg too. > I am waiting for Ford to pull the plug on the GT500. At some point before > dealer prices hit sticker IMO they are going to say they 'can't afford > to build the low production model anymore' or they are going to say > there haven't been enough sales, or some lame a.s excuse and cancel it. > The fact they moved the SVT chief elsewhere has me thinking they are > heading that way. Maybe SVT will go more production line thereby increasing the numbers and lowering the cost. > The local chevy dealer always has a good number of corvettes in stock. Never > saw a GT500 at the local Ford dealer. When you're the only game in town, like the Mustang is, you can keep prices higher. But with increased competition (the new pony cars that are coming) Ford will be forced to play the buyers game. Patrick > On Apr 1, 12:14 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Patrick I think it's going to be the other way around. Chevy and Chrysler already have a target - the Mustang GT. They'll have to keep their cars competitive from a performance, price, and value standpoint. >> On Apr 1, 12:14 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > already have a target - the Mustang GT. They'll have to keep their cars > competitive from a performance, price, and value standpoint. If they choose, I think DC can bring the Challenger in at a Mustang GT price point. Doesn't the Charger have an entry level price in the mid $20k range? >>> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > go down has me not being so interested any more. By the time it gets to > sticker I may have none left for the car. I am definitely interested in what GM and DC are bringing to the table. Hell, I just might throw more money at my '89 LX and make it my speed fix and forget about a new Mustang all together. >> They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they go >> bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us about the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > without controlling production to the point that the price doesn't go > through the roof at the dealership. I don't want to drag up the whole allocation debate. The bottom line is that Ford hasn't produced enough GT500 to meet the demand or what they state a year ago. IMO, the introduction of this "new" KR variant shows me they are going to keep the price gouging going for the full run of these Cobras. If they produced enough the price would drop no matter how they are allocated. >> The only reason they are coming out >> with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The fact they moved the SVT chief elsewhere has me thinking they are > heading that way. I see it as a real possibility too. > The local chevy dealer always has a good number of corvettes in stock. Never > saw a GT500 at the local Ford dealer. The biggest issue I have with the Corvette is it being a two seater. Even though the Mustang's rear seats are small they can be used by two adults for a brief period of time or haul two kids with ease. It is also a more practical car to take a trip in. I really am anxious to see what GM will do with the new Camaro. >> In article <04Wdnc7Lta6OCpPbnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@giganews.com>, Michael >> Johnson wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > speed > fix and forget about a new Mustang all together. I'm seriously considering this as well. My Dakota replacement may end up being a restomod Mustang. I'm still thinking about that crate motor we were discussing a while ago... ;) >>> They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they go >>> bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us about [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > run of these Cobras. If they produced enough the price would drop no > matter how they are allocated. I'll bet this is only the beginning. Watch for other variations on a theme, all at higher prices with limited availability. >>> The only reason they are coming out >>> with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I see it as a real possibility too. I don't see SVT as a factor anymore. They've been reduced to a fraction of what they used to be. >> The local chevy dealer always has a good number of corvettes in >> stock. Never saw a GT500 at the local Ford dealer. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > also a more practical car to take a trip in. I really am anxious to > see what GM will do with the new Camaro. Indeed. And the Challenger as well. >>> In article <04Wdnc7Lta6OCpPbnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@giganews.com>, Michael >>> Johnson wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > up being a restomod Mustang. I'm still thinking about that crate motor > we were discussing a while ago... ;) I could be very happy with my old LX sporting a 427W (in front of the current T-56 manual), full Maximum Motorsports suspension and a set of killer brakes. Plus, I would have a car that is APPRECIATING in value. >>>> They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they go >>>> bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us about [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I'll bet this is only the beginning. Watch for other variations on a > theme, all at higher prices with limited availability. I guess I will have to make myself a Ford customer with "limited availabilty" too. >>>> The only reason they are coming out >>>> with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Indeed. And the Challenger as well. >>>> In article <04Wdnc7Lta6OCpPbnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@giganews.com>, Michael >>>> Johnson wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > killer brakes. Plus, I would have a car that is APPRECIATING in > value. These are all good points IMO. But the other side of this whole thing is all the little niggly things that you have to deal with. These cars are 15 years and older, and having to deal with stuff like vacuum door locks, ashtray spring, visors, old heater core, sagging headliner, etc. is a PITA. >>>>> They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they >>>>> go bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I guess I will have to make myself a Ford customer with "limited > availabilty" too. LOL! >>>>> The only reason they are coming out >>>>> with this car is to keep the prices of Cobras in the stratosphere [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> Indeed. And the Challenger as well. I'm torn now between buying new (or recent) and redoing the LX. Perhaps actually seeing these cars will have an impact. >>>>> In article <04Wdnc7Lta6OCpPbnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@giganews.com>, Michael >>>>> Johnson wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > locks, ashtray spring, visors, old heater core, sagging headliner, etc. > is a PITA. True but, for me, the emotional tie to the car makes those naggy little things easy to take. Plus, I think having a car "I" can repair if I choose is a luxury nowadays. >>>>>> They just don't get it and, frankly, I really don't care if they >>>>>> go bankrupt. It is looking more and more like they lied to us [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > I'm torn now between buying new (or recent) and redoing the LX. Perhaps > actually seeing these cars will have an impact. Even if I end up buying something new I could not bring myself to sell the old LX. I can see me driving it around town when I'm 75 years old and making all the teenagers drool. > http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 > > Patrick 540hp is the early suggested hp. Much like when the GT500 was being created hp went from 450 too 500hp this car is believed to go 600plus hp!!! Now keep in mind this is an anniversary hence the 1k units being produced and the sticker from what I read is going to be close to $50k. Now please tell me were on earth are you going to find a production vehicle with that much hp for so little a price? Would you rather Ford charge over $100k just so the market doesnt adjust the price at the dealership? Or better yet flood the market with these cars so there is nothing special or unique to them and we complain that everyone has a "me too". Those of us who remember in the late 80's the insurance companies tend to jump in and ruin things too. Lets face it all I here is a bunch of people complaining cause they want the car but cant afford it so they will drop their loyalty to Ford cause of this, does that make sense? Not to me it doesnt unless its a quality issue, producing the cars we want them to produce at a low production is no new game for any manufacturer so you are just jumping from one to another. Just remember a steed for every need and an aftermarket that will set you apart. >> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > manufacturer so you are just jumping from one to another. Just remember a > steed for every need and an aftermarket that will set you apart. I want Ford to live up to their statements of last spring and summer. They told us the GT500 would be produced in volume and so far I don't see this happening. This is why they are loosing me as a loyal customer. If they had said the GT500 (and its variants) were going to be produced in limited numbers to keep prices high then I wouldn't be complaining. > I want Ford to live up to their statements of last spring and summer. > They told us the GT500 would be produced in volume and so far I don't > see this happening. This is why they are loosing me as a loyal > customer. If they had said the GT500 (and its variants) were going to > be produced in limited numbers to keep prices high then I wouldn't be > complaining. Note Ford's statement: Just 1000 GT500KRs will be produced, and the first batch will arrive in dealerships in the spring of 2008. Ford says the regular GT500 has been selling incredibly well, so we're guessing there are going to be a lot of angry people out there wishing they'd waited for the KR. Patrick >> I want Ford to live up to their statements of last spring and summer. >> They told us the GT500 would be produced in volume and so far I don't [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > guessing there are going to be a lot of angry people out there wishing > they'd waited for the KR. My take on this KR thing is Ford is starting to see, or expect, a drop in the demand for the GT500 so they are turning it up a notch to entice those few left with enough disposable income to buy (aka get gouged). On the bright side this might signal a breaking point for pricing on the GT500 since it will no longer be at the top of the Mustang food chain. Time will tell but you're right about there being some angry people that just spent $55k-$60k on a GT500. The funny thing is that Ford probably did almost nothing to get those extra ponies for the KR. Forty more hp is just a computer program tweak away. Especially on a blown engine. It should be enough to keep the bidding frenzy going. I wonder how many current GT500 owners will dump their car to get a KR. I bet more than a few will and that might help lower the prices for the ones still sitting on the dealer's lots. > GT500 since it will no longer be at the top of the Mustang food chain. > Time will tell but you're right about there being some angry people that > just spent $55k-$60k on a GT500. That's the risk of buying a new manufactured product as a collectable. It could be rendered not-so-special the next year. Or in some cases it takes awhile. (Like the 1973 mustang convertibles) > The funny thing is that Ford probably did almost nothing to get those > extra ponies for the KR. Forty more hp is just a computer program tweak > away. Especially on a blown engine. It should be enough to keep the > bidding frenzy going. I wonder how many current GT500 owners will dump > their car to get a KR. I bet more than a few will and that might help > lower the prices for the ones still sitting on the dealer's lots. *IF* ford keeps building them. The problem is that ford has a habbit of canceling production or saying from the get go 'this many, no more'. Ford seems to not only disregard people who could only or prefer to buy more expensive cars used, but it's own profits when it limits production. The dealer gets more, the buyer gets higher resale value, but what does ford get? Look at GM. They have the corvette. Do they piss off corvette buyers like this? Not that I've seen. I may be wrong because I don't follow it that closely but it appears that GM continues to build better vettes in an effort to please people who buy one each new generation. It does not seem difficult to find used corvettes in really good condition a generation or two behind current, even on a dealers lot. This churning seems to work well for GM on all fronts. Seems to work for dodge with the viper too. >> GT500 since it will no longer be at the top of the Mustang food chain. >> Time will tell but you're right about there being some angry people that [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > two behind current, even on a dealers lot. This churning seems to work well > for GM on all fronts. Seems to work for dodge with the viper too. GM has much more respect for the Corvette loyalists. They can buy a certain generation and pretty much know it won't change much until the next gen model comes out which will have marked improvements all the way around. Then they trade up and are happy with the overall process. GM has kept it this way for decades because it works. In Ford's defense they do follow this model with the base Mustang and GT but not with the Cobra. It seems that since they slapped the Shelby name on it they now have a right to gouge us loyalists for all they can get. My biggest problem with Ford on this whole subject is how they touted the GT500 was going to come in at a certain price point and they were going to make enough of them to ensure the MSRP they stated was realistic. They have yet to deliver on this promise and if they don't then I won't be loyal to them in the future. >> In article <a5GdnWy7SuZThY3bnZ2dnUVZ_silnZ2d@giganews.com>, Michael >> Johnson wrote: [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Ford's defense they do follow this model with the base Mustang and GT > but not with the Cobra. The Corvette is GM's crown jewel; the car and it's followers are treated as such. It's an atypical car for GM. Not so with Ford. > It seems that since they slapped the Shelby name on it they now have a > right to gouge us loyalists for all they can get. My biggest problem [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to deliver on this promise and if they don't then I won't be loyal to > them in the future. This is exactly what I meant above. GM actually shows respect for Corvette owners; Ford does the opposite. >>> In article <a5GdnWy7SuZThY3bnZ2dnUVZ_silnZ2d@giganews.com>, Michael >>> Johnson wrote: [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > This is exactly what I meant above. GM actually shows respect for > Corvette owners; Ford does the opposite. You're exactly right and it is why I really get pissed over this whole affair. Where Chevy rewards loyal buyers Ford tries to gouge us at every opportunity. Chevy always produces enough Corvettes to ensure the demand is met at roughly the MSRP, or less. Even the new Z06 didn't get too outrageous considering it is in nearly the same league, performance wise, as the Ford GT. >>> I want Ford to live up to their statements of last spring and summer. >>> They told us the GT500 would be produced in volume and so far I don't [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > their car to get a KR. I bet more than a few will and that might help > lower the prices for the ones still sitting on the dealer's lots. There were talks about the GT500KR from the very beginning. Ford's plan has been to bring out newer versions every year and with the timing this is a 40th Anniversary so regardless of how the sales were going on the GT500 they were going to make the KR in '08. The 540hp is just talk atm, imo it will more then likely have 600hp. Oh also the sooner the competition comes, with the abundance of all these aftermarket tuners (ei Saleen, Foose, Roush, etc), a variety of Mustang flavors, and cost of gas going back up, you will see the prices will come down considerably. "Michael Johnson" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message > I want Ford to live up to their statements of last spring and summer. They > told us the GT500 would be produced in volume and so far I don't see this > happening. This is why they are loosing me as a loyal customer. If they > had said the GT500 (and its variants) were going to be produced in limited > numbers to keep prices high then I wouldn't be complaining. Here's something I can agree with. I was at the NY auto show when they first debut the GT500. I spoke to the Ford rep and he said they were going to make as many as they can sell and also said it would be about $5k more then the 03 Cobra at the time. I feel somewhat betrayed too but I have a funny feeling it isn't Fords fault. I have a hunch this is all Shelby's doing. Much like all the lawsuits recently from Ford for trademarks on name. When Shelby was with Chrysler they did the same thing and sued anyone using their product names, now he came back to Ford and they are doing the same exact thing? More then a coincidence imo. > "Michael Johnson" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > product names, now he came back to Ford and they are doing the same exact > thing? More then a coincidence imo. I agree that all this is happening because the name "Shelby" is on the car. I wish they would have just came out with a garden variety Cobra then this wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure Ford and the dealers are cleaning up on the GT500 but, IMO, this will cost them loyal customers in the long term. It's just another example of why Toyota is cleaning their clock in sales and market share. I wonder how many people were sitting back and waiting for the price of the GT500s to get near MSRP (as Ford promised them it would) to buy one and now that they can't have decided to market the Mustang completely off their list, even the GT. You can count me in this crowd and I think there are more like me than Ford realizes. It makes me wonder if this is some of the reason Mustang sales numbers are dropping like a rock. >> "Michael Johnson" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >me than Ford realizes. It makes me wonder if this is some of the reason >Mustang sales numbers are dropping like a rock. This is the truth, if I could have ordered my 2007 Shelby GT500 for MSRP last fall, My wife and I would each be driving a new 2007 Ford right now. As it is we are shopping for her car everywhere else, (thanks in no small part to another stupid move by the re-badge idiots at FoMoCo, 500/Taurus) and I am now SERIOUSLY considering a new Corvette... Ford Motor Company has incompetently dropped the ball (yet again) on this 2007 Shelby GT500, possibly the final straw that drives this life long Ford fanatic away for good. >>> "Michael Johnson" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > 2007 Shelby GT500, possibly the final straw that drives this life long Ford > fanatic away for good. Ford doesn't understand loyalty is a two way street. Like you, I have been extremely loyal to Ford for the last 20 years. I take their actions on the GT500 personally and expect them to abide by their words. It is getting to the point that I don't care if they do finally produce them in volume. I've just about lost all interest in the car and the new Mustangs in general. The only thing I have any loyalty left for is the 1989 LX sitting in my garage and that does absolutely nothing for Ford's bottom line today. I would have really liked to have bought a GT500 for near MSRP by now but that isn't happening. I really could care less if Ford goes tits up. If I feel that way then, IMO, they are in deep, deep trouble. As I have said many times before the GT500 is a car worth MSRP. When you get into the mid to high $50k region there are just too many better cars to pick from. I think I'm through waiting for Ford to do the right thing with the GT500 and it, along with the GT, will be crossed off my list permanently. > sticker from what I read is going to be close to $50k. Now please tell me > were on earth are you going to find a production vehicle with that much hp > for so little a price? Nowhere. Because you won't get one with less than $10-25K dealer markup. > Would you rather Ford charge over $100k just so the > market doesnt adjust the price at the dealership? Actually, what difference does it make to a buyer who gets the money? Do I care if it's the dealership or ford? Not really. Although Ford advertising a car for an MSRP $20K less than it actually sells doesn't make for a happy customer base. > Or better yet flood the > market with these cars so there is nothing special or unique to them and we > complain that everyone has a "me too". The old 'exclusivity' argument. It's a manufacturered product, there is ultimately nothing about it that makes its owner special. If you want something special have a one of a kind car built for yourself or build it yourself. Then you have something special. > Those of us who remember in the late > 80's the insurance companies tend to jump in and ruin things too. Lets face > it all I here is a bunch of people complaining cause they want the car but > cant afford it so they will drop their loyalty to Ford cause of this, does > that make sense? The 'SUV jealously' argument. It has nothing to do with what I or anyone else can afford. I could go out right now and out bid any reasonably thinking person for a new GT500 mustang by thinking unreasonably. The question is, do I want to pay upwards of $70K for powerful mustang. No. Base Porsche 911 money for a mustang? not bloody likely. The brand loyalty comes from being treated fairly and honestly in addition to getting good product. Ford is not living up to its end here. > Not to me it doesnt unless its a quality issue, producing > the cars we want them to produce at a low production is no new game for any > manufacturer so you are just jumping from one to another. Just remember a > steed for every need and an aftermarket that will set you apart. And with that, you destroy your exclusivity argument for a GT500. >> sticker from what I read is going to be close to $50k. Now please tell me >> were on earth are you going to find a production vehicle with that much >> hp >> for so little a price? > > Nowhere. Because you won't get one with less than $10-25K dealer markup. What price is Ford selling it for??? You don't have to pay a mark up, just dont expect to get one if there is a demand which drives up the price. And if you could afford it would you want everyone else to have one too? You are paying a premium to have something rare and set apart from the rest. It's an investment and pretty good one too. >> Would you rather Ford charge over $100k just so the >> market doesnt adjust the price at the dealership? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > advertising a car for an MSRP $20K less than it actually sells doesn't > make for a happy customer base. Ford doesnt set a mark up on the price, the consumers do. You have people willing to pay so much more that drives the prices up. >> Or better yet flood the >> market with these cars so there is nothing special or unique to them and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > something special have a one of a kind car built for yourself or build it > yourself. Then you have something special What is "Special" is defined by an individual. From your statement an old '67 Shelby was a manufactured product so it shouldnt be special. The way the system works is if you have the money you get what you want and what you feel is special. >> Those of us who remember in the late >> 80's the insurance companies tend to jump in and ruin things too. Lets [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > question is, do I want to pay upwards of $70K for powerful mustang. No. > Base Porsche 911 money for a mustang? not bloody likely. Were did this SUV jealousy come from??? We are talking about a Shelby GT500KR. If you like to draw an anology please explain yourself better about the SUV jealousy so others can relate to what you are talking about. In regards to what someone is willing to pay for a Mustang is only your opinion and based upon what people have been spending I would say contrary there are many people willing to pay more, atm 10k people on the GT500 alone. > The brand loyalty comes from being treated fairly and honestly in > addition to getting good product. Ford is not living up to its end here. There is nothing unfair or dishonest happening here. We are all getting something. It would be unfair if Ford sold a car you were in contract with. It would be dishonest if they changed the price on a car after you agreed to take it. $50k Mustangs are steep but you can still get a less expensive one. Trying to tell Ford you want something for nothing isnt fair on your part. Again the market adjustment brought up the price not Ford. Ford doesnt even see the profit. >> Not to me it doesnt unless its a quality issue, producing >> the cars we want them to produce at a low production is no new game for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And with that, you destroy your exclusivity argument for a GT500. Scratches head??? Are you saying a GT500 is no longer exclusive because Ford makes a few different types of Mustang's and has an aftermarket? When you sell roughly 200k Mustangs making some specialty models is exclusive and with an aftermarket you can make something individualized as well. >>> sticker from what I read is going to be close to $50k. Now please tell me >>> were on earth are you going to find a production vehicle with that much [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > paying a premium to have something rare and set apart from the rest. It's an > investment and pretty good one too. That's a bunch of marketing sh.t. I don't feel 'better' than other people because I can afford something that costs more or because I am the first on the block with it. I couldn't care less. That's for shallow materialistic people. Investment? It's a friggin _NEW_ car, new cars are not for investment, they are for _DRIVING_. I don't buy into this instant collectable exclusive crapola that ford wants me to buy into. It is just marking crap, nothing more. If I wanted to spend a bunch of cash to have something no one else had, I would get turbocharged I6 falcon from down-under that had been wrecked or something and put it's drivetrain in my maverick. That would be 'special'. If I wanted to be different than anyone else with a normal production vehicle, I would spend my money on something that wasn't sold in the USA. Maybe get a 70s aussie falcon. (and I have toyed with that idea, but the availablity of cars already in the US for sale and other things just didn't align) >>> Would you rather Ford charge over $100k just so the >>> market doesnt adjust the price at the dealership? >> Actually, what difference does it make to a buyer who gets the money? Do >> I care if it's the dealership or ford? Not really. Although Ford >> advertising a car for an MSRP $20K less than it actually sells doesn't >> make for a happy customer base. > Ford doesnt set a mark up on the price, the consumers do. You have people > willing to pay so much more that drives the prices up. Ford can solve that problem by living up to their promise. >>> Or better yet flood the >>> market with these cars so there is nothing special or unique to them and >>> we complain that everyone has a "me too". >> The old 'exclusivity' argument. It's a manufacturered product, there is >> ultimately nothing about it that makes its owner special. If you want >> something special have a one of a kind car built for yourself or build it >> yourself. Then you have something special > What is "Special" is defined by an individual. From your statement an old > '67 Shelby was a manufactured product so it shouldnt be special. The way the > system works is if you have the money you get what you want and what you > feel is special. In 1977 a '67 shelby mustang was another used gas guzzler of a car and not worth much at all. Back in the 1990s there was this guy working at the 7-11 who had a BOSS 302 that he had bought back in the late 70s. I don't have my self worth wrapped up in what I drive or what I own... I get far more enjoyment finding something in scrap pile and making something out of it than what most people get from buying some new toy. >> The 'SUV jealously' argument. It has nothing to do with what I or anyone >> else can afford. I could go out right now and out bid any reasonably >> thinking person for a new GT500 mustang by thinking unreasonably. The >> question is, do I want to pay upwards of $70K for powerful mustang. No. >> Base Porsche 911 money for a mustang? not bloody likely. > Were did this SUV jealousy come from??? Read an SUV thread sometime. > We are talking about a Shelby > GT500KR. If you like to draw an anology please explain yourself better about > the SUV jealousy so others can relate to what you are talking about. In > regards to what someone is willing to pay for a Mustang is only your opinion > and based upon what people have been spending I would say contrary there are > many people willing to pay more, atm 10k people on the GT500 alone. You were apparently telling those of us complaining that we are complaining because we cannot afford it. It's the same thing that SUV owners say about people who don't like SUVs. The whole idea that a mass produced _NEW_ product has to be bought by competitive bidding is simply insane to me. It's done by stupid people and ford -promised- they weren't doing this, this time. Their rep at the chicago autoshow was more than clear they weren't going to do this again. They were going to produce to demand. Ford has not lived up to what they said. >> The brand loyalty comes from being treated fairly and honestly in >> addition to getting good product. Ford is not living up to its end here. > There is nothing unfair or dishonest happening here. I heard the guy on the stand with the GT500 at the chicago auto show say X and I am watching ford do Y. > We are all getting > something. It would be unfair if Ford sold a car you were in contract with. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Again the market adjustment brought up the price not Ford. Ford doesnt even > see the profit. You've bought into the bullshit. That's what's sad. >> And with that, you destroy your exclusivity argument for a GT500. > Scratches head??? Are you saying a GT500 is no longer exclusive because Ford > makes a few different types of Mustang's and has an aftermarket? When you > sell roughly 200k Mustangs making some specialty models is exclusive and > with an aftermarket you can make something individualized as well. You don't see the marketing for what it is. It's just another product, another new car. It has features and drawbacks like any other. There is nothing about a mass produced production car that is exclusive. It's just the top mustang model. That's it. Want something with real exclusivity? get out your wrench and your paint gun and start building it. >>> sticker from what I read is going to be close to $50k. Now please tell >>> me [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dont expect to get one if there is a demand which drives up the price. And > if you could afford it would you want everyone else to have one too? YES, Why not? Does that distorted line of thought enter into the standard 4.6 GT owners purchase plans too? > You are paying a premium to have something rare and set apart from the > rest. It's an investment and pretty good one too. No I want it for the car, alone, not the exclusivity or the collector value. Those IDIOTS are the ones contributing to this problem. I've building home built Ford Hot Rods since the '70s, I want an opportunity to by a factory 500 horsepower Ford built Hotrod, and drive the sh.t out of it! Hopefully it will be totally worn out and all used up the day I die. >>> Would you rather Ford charge over $100k just so the >>> market doesnt adjust the price at the dealership? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> advertising a car for an MSRP $20K less than it actually sells doesn't >> make for a happy customer base. This is the point! I could pay cash (even with the markup) for this car, BUT I REFUSE to get ripped off by a bunch of short sighted greedy car dealers. And that Ford does not step up production to eliminate this greedy customer abuse is the last nudge I need to push me into a Corvette! > Ford doesnt set a mark up on the price, the consumers do. You have people > willing to pay so much more that drives the prices up. Wrong! Ford has totally control. Anyone who says otherwise is full of sh.t. It is impossible to over price sell and deliver a car Ford will not ship to you... >>> Or better yet flood the >>> market with these cars so there is nothing special or unique to them and [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > fair on your part. Again the market adjustment brought up the price not > Ford. Ford doesnt even see the profit. Which makes this greedy customer abuse even more stupid from Fords perspective! Bump up production, Fords money is being made on volume sales now, the R&D and set up costs have already been paid. Every Shelby GT500 they don't sell NOW at MSRP to a buyer ready to buy, is money out of Fords pockets... There is no up side for Ford letting their dealer network do this sh.t. >>> Not to me it doesnt unless its a quality issue, producing >>> the cars we want them to produce at a low production is no new game for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > you sell roughly 200k Mustangs making some specialty models is exclusive > and with an aftermarket you can make something individualized as well. This "exclusivity argument" is a bunch of crap anyway. Some of us just want to drive it! Besides, they have art & baseball cards and other crap for collecting. > I could pay cash (even with the markup) for this car, > BUT I REFUSE to get ripped off by a bunch of short sighted greedy car > dealers. Exactly. Same here. Plus, the car just isn't worth that much money. > And that Ford does not step up production to eliminate this greedy > customer abuse is the last nudge I need to push me into a Corvette! It also serves to blow the 'exclusivity' argument out of the water because with the added price, one could get a car that will be more exclusive to anyone who isn't into cars. The GT500 is going to look like just another mustang to most people. Most people won't know it's anything special. If someone wanted exclusivity and to show off, the GT500 really isn't the car. > It also serves to blow the 'exclusivity' argument out of the water > because with the added price, one could get a car that will be more > exclusive to anyone who isn't into cars. The GT500 is going to look like > just another mustang to most people. Most people won't know it's anything > special. If someone wanted exclusivity and to show off, the GT500 really > isn't the car. Right. That would be the Scion. dwight >> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Now please tell me were on earth are you going to find a production > vehicle with that much hp for so little a price? Well as we all know with the 2007 GT500, not in a Ford showroom... Would you rather Ford charge over $100k just so the > market doesnt adjust the price at the dealership? Or better yet flood the > market with these cars so there is nothing special or unique to them and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > another. Just remember a steed for every need and an aftermarket that will > set you apart. lest you all forget. What made the Mustang the most popular car in 1964 was it's low price along with nice sporty styling. If Ford truly wants to save it's corporate a.s all it has to do is remember what they did in 1964 and make Mustangs sporty and cheap. > http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703300380 > > Patrick > lest you all forget. What made the Mustang the most popular car in 1964 > was it's low price along with nice sporty styling. If Ford truly wants to > save it's corporate a.s all it has to do is remember what they did in 1964 > and make Mustangs sporty and cheap. They do. What does the base V6 go for these days? $20K? And the new GT can go up to $33K. 35 years ago, you could get into a sporty little Mustang for about $2200, with the top models going for $3500+. By comparison, if you couldn't afford a Mustang, you could always pick up a new VW Beetle for about $1795. Nothing has changed. dwight www.tfrog93.com My point Exactly so why rape us for a GT500 KR? All the car makers do these days is add lots of glitter to a car and about 500 dollars in parts then raise the price 20,000 dollars or more. Take a look at the Corvette. It used to be priced about the same as a GTO, or a Mustang Cobra, or a Buick Gran Sport. and all of them were about 3500 bucks more or less. >> lest you all forget. What made the Mustang the most popular car in 1964 >> was it's low price along with nice sporty styling. If Ford truly wants to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > dwight > www.tfrog93.com > My point Exactly so why rape us for a GT500 KR? All the car makers do > these days is add lots of glitter to a car and about 500 dollars in parts > then raise the price 20,000 dollars or more. Take a look at the Corvette. > It used to be priced about the same as a GTO, or a Mustang Cobra, or a > Buick Gran Sport. and all of them were about 3500 bucks more or less. Oh, no no no... If the Boss or Mach I was retailing at $3500-$4000, the Corvette would have been $4500-$5000. It was always just that much more out of reach, and deservedly so. Always priced in the Cadillac area. Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model of a Mustang or Corvette was always just out of reach for me and many of my fellow schlubs. They were then, they are now. Like I said, nothing has changed. dwight >>> lest you all forget. What made the Mustang the most popular car in 1964 >>> was it's low price along with nice sporty styling. If Ford truly wants [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> dwight >> www.tfrog93.com > Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model of a > Mustang or Corvette was always just out of reach for me and many of my > fellow schlubs. They were then, they are now. In all my reading of the 'old days' I've never seen the price gouging that goes on at ford today mentioned. If the GT500 went for sticker, you would have a point, since it doesn't even get close to it.... well I don't think there is one. I don't think anyone has complained about the sticker price... it's more or less in the ballpark. It's the dealer markup that is the source of complaint. >> Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model of >> a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > or less in the ballpark. It's the dealer markup that is the source of > complaint. I understand that. Consider, though: if NO ONE paid the dealer markup, there wouldn't be one. It's true that there are idiots out there (idiots with money - go figure) who willingly plunk down $20,000 for the PRIVILEGE of buying a car. There are untold thousands of football fans who also (have to) plunk down thousands of dollars for the PRIVILEGE of buying a season ticket. This isn't even analogous to the art world, where bidders try to outdo each other, forcing art prices into the stratosphere, this is PRIVILEGE fees. As a former Presbyterian, I have nothing against paying retail. But paying MORE than retail? Not me. But, obviously, there are plenty of those idiots out there happily justifying the dealer markup, enough of them that they ruin it for the rest of us. What are you going to do? dwight >>> Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model of >>> a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > What are you going to do? Ford could solve the entire price gouging issue with the GT500 in an a few weeks. Put enough of them on the dealer's lots to meet the demand. They have chosen not to do this and instead perpetuate the gouging with even more low volume exclusive variants. If they don't produce the GT500 in sufficient quantity to get pricing to MSRP then I 'm done with them permanently. They promised last summer they would produce enough volume to promote real world pricing close to MSRP but their greed has got the best of them. They wonder why their sales numbers fall month after month? I read where they fell 9% last month on a year to year basis while Toyota's ROSE 7.7%. Screw them. I have no sympathy for Ford. If Darwin Awards were given to auto manufacturers they would win one hands down. >>>> Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model >>>> of a [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Toyota's ROSE 7.7%. Screw them. I have no sympathy for Ford. If Darwin > Awards were given to auto manufacturers they would win one hands down. The new Celica awaits. :() >>>> In article <8qidnWX_0cx1pY_bnZ2dnUVZ_q6vnZ2d@comcast.com>, dwight >>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > >:() What new Celica? >>>>> Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model >>>>> of a [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > The new Celica awaits. Nah... you know I have a soft spot for the V-6 Camry. It's a beast! ;) >>>> Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model >>>> of a [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Toyota's ROSE 7.7%. Screw them. I have no sympathy for Ford. If Darwin > Awards were given to auto manufacturers they would win one hands down. As I've mentioned before I really don't think it's as much of Ford's fault as you think. I bet Shelby is dictating they only produce "x" amount of cars with his name on it. IMO Ford should just reduce him to a tuner car but unfortunately with their history and consumer demand it wont happen. Ford should pick up Roush as he doesnt seem to be as greedy. I never see Jack Roush charge for a signature were as Shelby charges you for everything! >>>>> Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model >>>>> of a [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > should pick up Roush as he doesnt seem to be as greedy. I never see Jack > Roush charge for a signature were as Shelby charges you for everything! I have to disagree. Ford is at fault. Especially if they are letting Shelby determine production numbers. Remember all the hype Ford generated last spring and summer about MSRP? I do and I expect them to deliver what they promised. Ford and the dealers are just as greedy as Shelby, IMHO. > As I've mentioned before I really don't think it's as much of Ford's fault > as you think. I bet Shelby is dictating they only produce "x" amount of cars > with his name on it. IMO Ford should just reduce him to a tuner car but > unfortunately with their history and consumer demand it wont happen. Ford > should pick up Roush as he doesnt seem to be as greedy. I never see Jack > Roush charge for a signature were as Shelby charges you for everything! I would think shelby would just charge ford per car. >> As I've mentioned before I really don't think it's as much of Ford's fault >> as you think. I bet Shelby is dictating they only produce "x" amount of cars [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I would think shelby would just charge ford per car. I'm fairly sure this is the case. If anything Shelby might want more cars sold because it means more money in his pocket. >>> Numbers over the years are purely relative. Fact is, the top end model of >>> a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> If the GT500 went for sticker, you would have a point, since it doesn't >> even get close to it.... well I don't think there is one. >> I don't think anyone has complained about the sticker price... it's more >> or less in the ballpark. It's the dealer markup that is the source of >> complaint. > I understand that. Consider, though: if NO ONE paid the dealer markup, there > wouldn't be one. Because the production and demand probably were a good match or people used to be smarter. >> lest you all forget. What made the Mustang the most popular car in 1964 >> was it's low price along with nice sporty styling. If Ford truly wants to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >dwight >www.tfrog93.com Just move the decimal point one to the right... -- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere? |
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