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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / May 2007Mustang Shelby
I was waiting for my car to get an oil change and took a look at a Mustang Shelby (not the 500) and was shocked. Sticker for the Mustang GT 29K not too bad. Shelby decorations 12K again not too bad. Market markup another 12K they have to be drunk to think I am paying 24K to have Shelby on the trunk. > I was waiting for my car to get an oil change and took a look at a Mustang > Shelby (not the 500) and was shocked. Sticker for the Mustang GT 29K not too > bad. Shelby decorations 12K again not too bad. Market markup another 12K > they have to be drunk to think I am paying 24K to have Shelby on the trunk. My local dealer wants $20K for "market adjustment". Some local knucklehead will pay that. But I won't. A year or two ago they had a GT on the lot. The wanted $200K for "additional dealer profit". And, yes, that's exactly what it said on the window sticker - "additional dealer profit".  Signature.boB 2006 FXDI hot rod 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast. >> I was waiting for my car to get an oil change and took a look at a Mustang >> Shelby (not the 500) and was shocked. Sticker for the Mustang GT 29K not too [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that's exactly what it said on the window sticker - > "additional dealer profit". And of course Ford wonders why they are doing so poorly. Everytime they make a car that more than two people want, ford builds them in low volume and/or on allotment such that their dealers decide to sell few with huge profit margins rather than sell volume. I guess with the regular shelby having an additional 24K tacked on means the GT500 will remain absurdly high priced as well. Ford will continue to constrict supply by building low volume or allotment schemes that distribute the cars in fixed numbers to dealers so that there is no reason for any dealer to sell one at even as low as sticker. Each model year ford will vary things slightly to try and keep this game going taking advantage of idiots while it's core customer base sits on the sidelines waiting for a fair price and one at time giving up on Ford and going to another manufacturer. I don't think ford marketing doesn't understand that it isn't Ferrari and that while it makes the dealers happy to make one sale with 20K+ profit, it does neither Ford nor the dealers any good in the long run. Maybe they are under the delusion that everyone or nearly everyone that could pay $42K (or whatever sticker is) for a GT500 but can't or won't pay $65K just settles for plain Mustang GT. Obviously out of touch as I by feel most people aren't settling for a lesser Ford product but rather becoming increasingly annoyed with Ford and considering manufacturers that don't play this game. On Apr 25, 11:45 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: > >> I was waiting for my car to get an oil change and took a look at a Mustang > >> Shelby (not the 500) and was shocked. Sticker for the Mustang GT 29K not too > >> bad. Shelby decorations 12K again not too bad. Market markup another 12K > >> they have to be drunk to think I am paying 24K to have Shelby on the trunk. Solution: Get a regular GT and turn the wrenches yourself. You can buy all the Shelby GT upgrades from Ford Racing Performance Parts for under $3K. Do it this way and you save yourself $7K, plus the dealer/ stealer markup, and you'll have a car you can continue to modify without the worry of hacking up a "future collectible". Problem solved. Patrick > > My local dealer wants $20K for "market adjustment". > > Some local knucklehead will pay that. But I won't. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > becoming increasingly annoyed with Ford and considering manufacturers > that don't play this game. > Solution: Get a regular GT and turn the wrenches yourself. Well here's how that worked out last time.... I couldn't have the car being down while I turned it into a product development experiment. Thusly, modifications have been limited. > You can > buy all the Shelby GT upgrades from Ford Racing Performance Parts for > under $3K. I'm talking GT500. The shelby GT isn't even worth thinking about. But the overcharging for them means the GT500 isn't getting reasonable any time soon. On Apr 26, 11:45 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: > > Solution: Get a regular GT and turn the wrenches yourself. > Well here's how that worked out last time.... I couldn't have the car > being down while I turned it into a product development experiment. > Thusly, modifications have been limited. I understand your dilemma. Many face/have faced the same situation. But you know this obstacle isn't Mustang specific. I myself have faced it many times and have ways to get my bolt-ons bolted on. > > You can buy all the Shelby GT upgrades from Ford Racing > > Performance Parts for under $3K. > I'm talking GT500. But he wasn't. He was talking Shelby GT. > The shelby GT isn't even worth thinking about. Why not? Stock 13.6/7s @ 103 isn't that bad, is it? > But the overcharging for them means the GT500 isn't getting reasonable > any time soon. Who cares? Why do you have to have a GT500? Why not just find a '03-'04 Terminator? Prices of those have to be fairly reasonable now and with a few _simple_ mods you can have an 11-second car. So if you don't have to have the latest and greatest... again, problem solved. Patrick > On Apr 26, 11:45 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) > wrote: >> > Solution: Get a regular GT and turn the wrenches yourself. > >> Well here's how that worked out last time.... I couldn't have the car >> being down while I turned it into a product development experiment. >> Thusly, modifications have been limited. > I understand your dilemma. Many face/have faced the same situation. > But you know this obstacle isn't Mustang specific. I myself have > faced it many times and have ways to get my bolt-ons bolted on. And when the engineering project goes foul on tuesday morning on your drive to work? Even through no fault of your own? Or even if you just missed some little detail because you didn't know about it? I like my cars to last a long time and being reliable. Turning them into engineering projects doesn't do well for either. I'd do it if all I had to do was reach into a parts bin to replace whatever broke.... like I do with the products I work on... so what if I burned up a gear, just reach into the box and get another one, there's only 439 left... >> > You can buy all the Shelby GT upgrades from Ford Racing >> > Performance Parts for under $3K. > >> I'm talking GT500. > But he wasn't. He was talking Shelby GT. You replied to me. Reply to the OP then. The topic had grown where I stepped in. >> The shelby GT isn't even worth thinking about. > Why not? Stock 13.6/7s @ 103 isn't that bad, is it? Because as you clearly pointed it out, it's a gussied up GT with a jacked up price. >> But the overcharging for them means the GT500 isn't getting reasonable >> any time soon. > Who cares? Why do you have to have a GT500? I don't. I can always buy a non-ford instead. Which is what Ford is encouraging me to do. Why people like you apologize for them I have no idea. Guess it's the same disease that has people identify with the democrats or the republicans. > Why not just find a > '03-'04 Terminator? Prices of those have to be fairly reasonable now > and with a few _simple_ mods you can have an 11-second car. I already own an SN95 mustang. I would need to do all the stuff I never got around to doing on the one I have. I also don't want someone's used car, plus I don't like the styling of 99-04. It grew on me so I don't find it revolting, but I still have no desire to own one. If were to cheap out and buy a used car, I would look for a 96-98 GT or cobra with the same color exterior and interior as my 97. > So if you don't have to have the latest and greatest... again, problem > solved. Latest and greatest.... the GT500 is hardly such by any technology measure. If I wanted latest and greatest there wouldn't even be a production Ford on the consideration list. The GT500 is the only new mustang that I find appealing. I think I've waited long enough for Ford to have them on sale for a reasonable price without unusal hassle. When I decide to stomach going to car dealerships, I'll probably start out with the chevy (corvette) and BMW dealers and branch out from there. I'd sooner spend way too much money for base 911 long before I give a ford dealer 65K for a new mustang of any kind. On Apr 26, 9:35 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: > >> > Solution: Get a regular GT and turn the wrenches yourself. > >> Well here's how that worked out last time.... I couldn't have the car > >> being down while I turned it into a product development experiment. > >> Thusly, modifications have been limited. > > I understand your dilemma. Many face/have faced the same situation. > > But you know this obstacle isn't Mustang specific. I myself have > > faced it many times and have ways to get my bolt-ons bolted on. > And when the engineering project goes foul on tuesday morning on your > drive to work? Even through no fault of your own? Or even if you just [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > do with the products I work on... so what if I burned up a gear, just > reach into the box and get another one, there's only 439 left... Whoa, wait a minute, dude! Further down you state you're going to look at a Vette, BMW or Porshe, but here you're acting like you don't have a few extra bucks to buy/own a back-and-forth-to-work beater...? Or enough to throw a few bucks at a local mechanic to install your bolt-ons for you. Geeze, please don't play the sympathy card. Hell, I for one have peddled a bike to work more than a few times when the bolt-ons didn't get bolted on in time. And I knew a guy who changed a Fox over from an automatic to a 5-speed and he did all the work on a weekend, IN A PARKING LOT! And I'm sure there are others in here who can top this. > >> > You can buy all the Shelby GT upgrades from Ford Racing > >> > Performance Parts for under $3K. > >> I'm talking GT500. > > But he wasn't. He was talking Shelby GT. > You replied to me. Reply to the OP then. The topic had grown where I > stepped in. I know, but when I replied the thread was only two posts deep and I decided to talk to both of you at the same time. > >> The shelby GT isn't even worth thinking about. > > Why not? Stock 13.6/7s @ 103 isn't that bad, is it? > Because as you clearly pointed it out, it's a gussied up GT with a > jacked up price. Yes, but its performance, which IS available at a reasonable price if you do it yourself, is respectable. > >> But the overcharging for them means the GT500 isn't getting reasonable > >> any time soon. > > Who cares? Why do you have to have a GT500? > I don't. I can always buy a non-ford instead. Which is what Ford is > encouraging me to do. Why people like you apologize for them I have no > idea. I'm not. I simple stated an alternative. Buy a Terminator. And in a few years, when the next must-have Mustang comes out, a used GT500 will be a good alternative. > Guess it's the same disease that has people identify with the democrats or the > republicans. I don't suffer from this disease. > > Why not just find a > > '03-'04 Terminator? Prices of those have to be fairly reasonable now > > and with a few _simple_ mods you can have an 11-second car. > I already own an SN95 mustang. I would need to do all the stuff I never > got around to doing on the one I have. No, you wouldn't. A stock Terminator should keep you happy for awhile. And when that performance level gets boring for you, you know how well they respond to simple mods. > I also don't want someone's used car, You're killing me! Dude, look around a little. You can find nice used Cobras... pampered Cobras. Many people buy these things, treat them like art work, then after a few years of ownership sell them when their "priorities change". I got mine with only 36,000 miles for less than half the price it went for when new. I found mine in less than a week. They're out there. > plus I don't like the styling of 99-04. It grew on me so I don't > find it revolting, but I still have no desire to own one. You're too picky. IMO the Terminators are awesome looking cars! Those big wide gum balls under that hunkered-down stance is menacing. > If were to > cheap out and buy a used car, I would look for a 96-98 GT or cobra > with the same color exterior and interior as my 97. But if you want that big-league performance buying a used Terminator is a much better deal. > > So if you don't have to have the latest and greatest... again, problem > > solved. > Latest and greatest.... the GT500 is hardly such by any technology > measure. I'm talking about in Mustangland. > If I wanted latest and greatest there wouldn't even be a > production Ford on the consideration list. These days being the latest and greatest lasts about a year, maybe. > The GT500 is the only new mustang that I find appealing. The base GT is still a pretty sweet deal. And a new Mach 1, Bullitt, Boss 302 are rumored to be in the pipeline. > I think I've waited long enough for Ford to have them on sale for a reasonable > price without unusal hassle. If you've run out of patience, you got to do what you got to do. > When I decide to stomach going to car dealerships, I'll probably start > out with the chevy (corvette) and BMW dealers and branch out from > there. Doesn't want to buy used, but is willing to get the new-car rape. Hmmmm... > I'd sooner spend way too much money for base 911 long before I > give a ford dealer 65K for a new mustang of any kind. I could find much better things to do with $65K than spend it on ANY one car. Patrick I guess my point is if the parts are Ford stock parts I think it is time to get the order numbers for the Shelby mods I want and order a GT with those options installed by ford. All it would be is a Special order car with a few Gizmos added. Personally I like the color scheme of the Hertz Mustangs (black and gold) with the few performance bells and whistles of the Shelby and I forgot to mention the Hurst Shifter that I like lots better than the stock one. Maybe we could come up with the Mustang with Options and name it the Phoenix Mustang (arisen from the ashes of Ford's stupidity) I think I will go talk to the dealer this weekend and see if they can special order it. made my way HIPO with none of the Shelby appearance mods. I think they were called sleepers in the days of my youth like the 455 Buick powered 57 Vette a friend had in 1965. > On Apr 26, 9:35 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 142 lines] > > Patrick >> drive to work? Even through no fault of your own? Or even if you just >> missed some little detail because you didn't know about it? I like my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> do with the products I work on... so what if I burned up a gear, just >> reach into the box and get another one, there's only 439 left... > Whoa, wait a minute, dude! Further down you state you're going to > look at a Vette, BMW or Porshe, GT500, ~42K Vette ~43K BMW 37K... figured it out yet? And the porsche? That's saying what's in the ballpark of $65-75K/ > but here you're acting like you don't > have a few extra bucks to buy/own a back-and-forth-to-work beater...? I haven't acted any such way. In fact, I tried that route once... I ended up working on the beater to keep it road worthy! I still didn't get to my mustang or my maverick because I was patching the beater up instead. Which at one point broke down on me at 79th and the dan-ryan. But at least I could leave that car there overnight. What do you think happens when a nice mustang breaks down in a bad neighborhood? I want my cars reliable, not engineering experiments that break down on me. So what if I have another car, the engineering experiment is still going to break down on me at the worst possible times. Half way to work... in bad neighborhood, Let's say when I have the beater apart to fix it, because it's well, a beater. Then I have nothing to drive. Instead of one unreliable car, I end up with two! I don't want or need the hassle of driving an engineering project. I do that for work, you think I want it to consume the rest of my life too? I don't want a car that's only good to go to some cruise night and show off a few times a year. I want one I can drive where ever I want to go and know it's going to be reliable. > Or enough to throw a few bucks at a local mechanic to install your > bolt-ons for you. I see, because I don't want to pay ford dealer extortion, I should do things your way and still give the ford dealer my hard earned money. > Geeze, please don't play the sympathy card. I didn't. It's all in your head buddy. I said I want my cars to last a long time and be reliable. That isn't a 'sympathy card', it's what I want. I don't have the resources of ford motor company to be screwing around mixing and matching aftermarket parts and tracking down odd problems and wondering why the mods made the car so it doesn't start when it's -10F or whatever because the aftermarket company is CA and didn't even consider it. > Hell, > I for one have peddled a bike to work more than a few times when the > bolt-ons didn't get bolted on in time. I bike alot, because I like it, So don't play the sympathy card with me like that. And you just prove my point.... > And I knew a guy who changed a > Fox over from an automatic to a 5-speed and he did all the work on a > weekend, IN A PARKING LOT! And I'm sure there are others in here who > can top this. And I've changed a timing chain in a parking lot in sub-zero chicago january cold. To the point where I could only work 10 minutes at stretch because my hands froze. Not to mention a whole bunch of other stuff while trying not to get caught and kicked out because it was against the lease. Anyway it doesn't mean I want to do that. Why should I have to? Because ford won't put the car on the market for the price it was supposed to be? F'ck ford. Why should I have to bend over backwards to drive a ford and do a significant amount of product development on my own time and my own dime? GM, BMW, and others are willing to put a car on the market for a reasonable price where I don't have to that, so why should I? Out of some sort of stupid 'loyalty'? It's a two-way street and ford isn't living up to it's end. The answer 'I DON'T WANT TO' should be sufficent enough for you. You go and buy a new GT and turn it into excerise in product development if you want to. I'm not telling you otherwise. Go for it, knock yourself out. I told you why I don't want to, but that's not enough for you, you need to convince me to do it your way. >> > Why not? Stock 13.6/7s @ 103 isn't that bad, is it? >> Because as you clearly pointed it out, it's a gussied up GT with a >> jacked up price. > Yes, but its performance, which IS available at a reasonable price if > you do it yourself, is respectable. So what? It's not worth even thinking about for the reasons you gave. ROI. >> >> But the overcharging for them means the GT500 isn't getting reasonable >> >> any time soon. >> > Who cares? Why do you have to have a GT500? >> I don't. I can always buy a non-ford instead. Which is what Ford is >> encouraging me to do. Why people like you apologize for them I have no >> idea. > I'm not. I simple stated an alternative. Buy a Terminator. And in a > few years, when the next must-have Mustang comes out, a used GT500 > will be a good alternative. Alternative? I tell you why I disregarded said alternatives and you have to go through and tell me I'm wrong. Sorry, there's no wrong here. I just don't see it the way you do, accept that. >> > Why not just find a >> > '03-'04 Terminator? Prices of those have to be fairly reasonable now >> > and with a few _simple_ mods you can have an 11-second car. >> I already own an SN95 mustang. I would need to do all the stuff I never >> got around to doing on the one I have. > No, you wouldn't. A stock Terminator should keep you happy for > awhile. And when that performance level gets boring for you, you know > how well they respond to simple mods. You have no clue what I want out of the car. With an '04 cobra I'll have to do all the upgrades I did to my '97 suspension and brake wise which isn't much and then all the stuff I never got to. With GT500, most of that is done. >> I also don't want someone's used car, > You're killing me! Dude, look around a little. You can find nice > used Cobras... pampered Cobras. Many people buy these things, treat > them like art work, then after a few years of ownership sell them when > their "priorities change". I got mine with only 36,000 miles for less > than half the price it went for when new. I found mine in less than a > week. They're out there. Because I got all that free time to be driving around and inspecting cars.... most people around here amazed at my mustang's condition, because so many mustangs around here get the snot beat out of them, including cobras. Most of the cobras I see for sale are someone else's engineering project of modifications. So, first I'd have to start undoing what they did mod wise that I don't like or causes reliability issues. The ones that aren't like that and aren't damaged, the owners are on crack with regard to the asking price. But why does it matter why I don't want someone's used mustang? The fact is I don't want to go that route. That should be enough for you. I don't want. But no, you have to tell me I'm wrong, that I should do it _YOUR_ way, in an area that is all 'want' and 'like'. >> plus I don't like the styling of 99-04. It grew on me so I don't >> find it revolting, but I still have no desire to own one. > You're too picky. IMO the Terminators are awesome looking cars! > Those big wide gum balls under that hunkered-down stance is > menacing. Again, I'm wrong on a question of like and want... I should like and want what you do. I think they are ugly. The '94-'98 design is fluid... the '99-'04 is choppy, angular.... hanging more scoops and crap from it just makes it even uglier. >> If were to >> cheap out and buy a used car, I would look for a 96-98 GT or cobra >> with the same color exterior and interior as my 97. > But if you want that big-league performance buying a used Terminator > is a much better deal. I'd still have a chasis derived from a 1978 Fairmont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure that chasis can be made to perform, but that's all the work I never got to with my '97. There is no reasonable expectation I'd get to it with another SN95. >> > So if you don't have to have the latest and greatest... again, problem >> > solved. >> Latest and greatest.... the GT500 is hardly such by any technology >> measure. > I'm talking about in Mustangland. I am not so limiting myself. >> If I wanted latest and greatest there wouldn't even be a >> production Ford on the consideration list. > These days being the latest and greatest lasts about a year, maybe. _IF_ >> The GT500 is the only new mustang that I find appealing. > The base GT is still a pretty sweet deal. And a new Mach 1, Bullitt, > Boss 302 are rumored to be in the pipeline. So what? Wait for those only to have them too with jacked up prices? What attracts me to the GT500 is that it is a piece of the Ford GT with a mustang chasis that is close to where I would finish one up for less money than a Vette (sticker anyway). >> When I decide to stomach going to car dealerships, I'll probably start >> out with the chevy (corvette) and BMW dealers and branch out from >> there. > Doesn't want to buy used, but is willing to get the new-car rape. > Hmmmm... I bought my 1997 _NEW_. I've had it ten years and 153,000 miles. How do you figure I got 'new car raped'? You only get new car raped if you dump it in a couple years. I keep cars for a very long time and because of that it is just fine to buy new. I also get the car the way I want it, not the way someone else did. Once again, you think your way is the only way the right way. There's more than one way to win this game. >> I'd sooner spend way too much money for base 911 long before I >> give a ford dealer 65K for a new mustang of any kind. > I could find much better things to do with $65K than spend it on ANY > one car. Note the first words of what I wrote.... "I would sooner"... doesn't mean I would or am, but that I would do option A over option B if those were the two options. On Apr 27, 1:02 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: Test. Where did my reply to this post go? Patrick > In article <1177646952.750853.34...@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, NoOptio...@aol.com wrote: > >> drive to work? Even through no fault of your own? Or even if you just [quoted text clipped - 207 lines] > > read more » > On Apr 27, 1:02 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Patrick The one in which you said "> Whoa, wait a minute, dude!"? That's the last one I see. > NoOptio...@aol.com wrote: > > Test. > > Where did my reply to this post go? > The one in which you said "> Whoa, wait a minute, dude!"? > That's the last one I see. Gill, No. Damn it... now I have to retype the sucker. <sigh> Patrick >> NoOptio...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Damn it... now I have to retype the sucker. <sigh> No need to bother. I'm done with this thread. >> NoOptio...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Patrick Don't you have it in your "Sent Items" folder? I looked through the Shelby options and other than the Shelby serial number the rest of the mods that I liked were stock order Ford parts. I could care less about having Shelby on the trunk or on the dash it definitely won't make it any faster. biggest mods I saw on the sticker were sway bars, lowered springs, exhaust change, and air intake. Decoration was Shelby this and that on floor mats dash and trunk. some different decals on the fenders, and wheels. Back when the original GT350 came out anyone could order it if you had the $$. It definitely was not 24K in price increases. Actually for about 55K for the Shelby muskrat you could get a decent Corvette with more power. I actually was interested in trading for the Shelby until I saw the markup. > On Apr 25, 11:45 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> becoming increasingly annoyed with Ford and considering manufacturers >> that don't play this game. > On Apr 25, 11:45 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Problem solved. ><snip> I've turned enough wrenches on my '89 LX and I'm tired of doing it. Ford told us last summer they were going to deliver enough GT500s to get the price close to MSRP. They aren't doing this and I doubt they have any plans to do it. This latest Shelby is just another gouge at the wallets of loyal Mustang buyers. I expected to be able to buy a 500 hp new Mustang with a warranty for under $45k. Ford promised me, and everyone else, this would come to pass. They think making a paltry few dollars on a limited run of Mustangs is worth the ultimate cost of loyal customers? I won't be buying a Mustang or Explorer or any hybrid from them again if the GT500 isn't sold in enough quantity to lower the sales price. I see their sales numbers for April have tanked too. I now give Ford a 40% chance, at best, of surviving another 5 years as an independent automaker. Frankly, I don't care if they make it or not. Remember, this is coming from a guy that has bought only Fords for more than 20 years. As I said before, when they start losing loyal customers like me they are in some really deep $hit. Pulling stunts like they have with these Shelby Mustangs does nothing but damage, IMO. |
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