Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / August 2007
Fox Body GT getting hot...what gives???
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GT5OH - 20 Jul 2007 00:16 GMT I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I drive, the hotter it gets (no sh.t sherlock) but this is where I am confused. I removed all my hoses coming from the radiator and the water pump and sure enough there was a small hole in both hoses so I replaced them and filled her back up with coolant and then ran it with radiator cap off for a while and then took her for a spin. The engine was cooling just fine and I stayed in normal temp range so I went home, mission accomplished right? WRONG! Next day I drive her to work and the same thing starts happening again! I couldn't believe it so when I got home from work (by this time it was pretty hot) and popped the hood and I can hear the coolant in the radiator bubbling like crazy. Is this a problem with my radiator or with the water pump or what????? Keep in mind I do live in Phoenix, AZ so it is HOT here but that can't be the only problem right??? Thanks for bearing with me, I am new to this but I am learning, at least I know how to replace some hoses now :-)
Thanks Guys
Sean 1990 GT 5.0
Joe - 20 Jul 2007 00:58 GMT GT5OH <goldandjewels@gmail.com> wrote in news:1184887011.843213.203590 @x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I > drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Sean > 1990 GT 5.0 Air pockets in the system, perhaps?
Les Benn - 20 Jul 2007 01:18 GMT > GT5OH <goldandjewels@gmail.com> wrote in news:1184887011.843213.203590 > @x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Air pockets in the system, perhaps? definitely look for air in the system if that is not it do you have a temperature regulated high speed fan? Is it kicking on? do you have the correct anti freeze mix? It needs to have a boiling point at about 235 degrees. I live in AZ too and I had this issue with a 98 Vette. I had the anti freeze mix incorrect and had a slow leak in a hose. fixed both and it worked fine although in stop and go traffic in Phoenix it would heat up to 225 before the high speed fan would kick in. It definitely scared me to see the temp that high but it was working as designed.
Les Benn - 20 Jul 2007 01:20 GMT > GT5OH <goldandjewels@gmail.com> wrote in news:1184887011.843213.203590 > @x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Air pockets in the system, perhaps? I forgot one thing clean the fins in the radiator too with water to get bugs and dirt out. Bugs and dirt will plug up the cooling fins in the radiator.
GILL - 20 Jul 2007 01:37 GMT > I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I > drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Sean > 1990 GT 5.0 Time for a new rad?
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scott and barb - 20 Jul 2007 02:05 GMT Buy a Mister Gasket 190degree stat and try this first.Maybe rad needs unplugged?
> I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I > drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Sean > 1990 GT 5.0 Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 02:09 GMT > I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I > drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > am new to this but I am learning, at least I know how to replace some > hoses now :-) Here are the a few things that can cause overheating that come to mind:
1) Air in the cooling system. This is more probably after draining the system and refilling. Usually driving will work out the bubble.
2) A bad water pump. Typically there will be a leak present but not always. With a bad water pump the car will usually overheat under all driving conditions.
3) A bad clutch on the fan. This will usually cause overheating in stop and go driving but not during highway driving. At high speeds the there will be sufficient air moving through the radiator to cool the coolant.
4) A clogged radiator. This will usually cause overheating under all driving conditions, especially stop and go driving. Sometimes you can feel the return side of the radiator and find it abnormally cool. Also, an infrared laser thermometer can show hot and cool spots through the radiator that indicates inconsistent cooling and thus a clog.
5) One last thing that comes to mind isn't a good one, a blown head gasket. If this is the case most times you will find oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. Not always though. The leak can be small and only occurring under combustion at high pressure. In this case the combustion gases get into the coolant, heating it and causing air pockets. There are paper strips some shops use to detect the presence of hydrocarbons in the coolant. They are very sensitive and can tell you a head gasket leak is present when there are no other symptoms.
There is a trick you can use to help diagnose if it is a clogged radiator or clutch fan. When it overheats turn the interior heat on high and the blower fan on high. If this drops the temperature some then I put my money on the clutch or the radiator. Then if it doesn't overheat at highway speeds I say its the radiator.
I have used the heater blasting at full speed in the summer more than once to limp home without boiling over. It is amazing how much this will help cool the engine.
Also, make sure the reservoir is filled to the full mark. Check it, and top it off if necessary, until it stabilizes.
Hope this helps.
Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 02:36 GMT All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat.
>> I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I >> drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Hope this helps. Blue Gator - 20 Jul 2007 03:41 GMT > All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat. > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >> >> Hope this helps. Nobody has mentioned the radiator cap! Won't it cause overheating if it doesn't hold pressure?
Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 04:44 GMT >> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat. >> [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > Nobody has mentioned the radiator cap! Won't it cause overheating if it > doesn't hold pressure? The cooling system won't be as efficient. Also, the reservoir might not function properly. You're right though it should be checked too.
Richard - 20 Jul 2007 07:22 GMT > >> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat. > >> [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > The cooling system won't be as efficient. Also, the reservoir might not > function properly. You're right though it should be checked too. And timing. I couldn't hear the pinging (old age I guess) but the guy running the dyno did. Turns out the 16 deg advance (spec is 10) caused enough detonation to raise the temperature alarmingly fast under load. The temperature would fall back to normal almost as quickly when the load was removed. In hindsight this problem appears to have originated when I had the stator replaced about 1 1/2 years ago. I'm guessing but that was the last time the timing was adjusted. I replaced the sending unit and radiator cap made sure the rad wasn't obstructed. Nothing changed. Temperature was always normal at cruising speed and around town but if I was climbing a steep grade for a mile or so and wanted to maintain speed the temperature gauge went to the max.
Now, I'm wondering what damage might have occurred that isn't showing up yet. Especially since I'm installing a KB supercharger next Tuesday.
Which leads me to the next question. Is there a aftermarket knock sensor for a '94 5.0. As best as I can determine there is no OEM knock sensor for the 94-95's.
Richard
Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 08:52 GMT >>>> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > Now, I'm wondering what damage might have occurred that isn't showing up > yet. Especially since I'm installing a KB supercharger next Tuesday. I doubt much damage at all. You can always do compression and leak down tests to see if there is a problem in the works.
> Which leads me to the next question. Is there a aftermarket knock sensor for > a '94 5.0. As best as I can determine there is no OEM knock sensor for the > 94-95's. I use one a J&S Safeguard on my '89 LX that has a Blowilla/Flowzilla setup. It is a good unit but pricey. Beats dealing with blown head gaskets though. Here's a link: http://www.jandssafeguard.com/
Richard - 21 Jul 2007 05:36 GMT > > Which leads me to the next question. Is there a aftermarket knock sensor for > > a '94 5.0. As best as I can determine there is no OEM knock sensor for the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > setup. It is a good unit but pricey. Beats dealing with blown head > gaskets though. Here's a link: http://www.jandssafeguard.com/ Thanks for the link. I emailed J&S this evening and received this reply from John Pizzuto.
"Our Universal unit is designed for cars with a distributor and one coil. It's temporarily discontinued, while we design in a new micro processor. The old processor is no longer available. Please check back in two or three months."
Richard
Michael Johnson - 21 Jul 2007 06:06 GMT >>> Which leads me to the next question. Is there a aftermarket knock sensor > for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The old processor is no longer available. Please check back in two or three > months." I have dealt with John personally. He is a good guy. Very knowledgeable.
Dick R. - 05 Aug 2007 22:17 GMT Hi all, On the overheating problem: I had a similar problem on my 95 Ford van when we were in the middle of nowhere, Wisconsin. Stopped, let it cool down, removed the radiator cap, and added the only liquid we had - bottled water - to the reservoir. Upon closer inspection I noticed the top of the radiator was wet. It was that little hose going from below the radiator cap to the coolant reservoir that had a small hole in it. I cut 1" off the hose, plugged it in again, and voila, problem solved. Your solution may not be that simple.
Just a thought, Dick R.
GT5OH - 20 Jul 2007 17:08 GMT I replaced the thermostat when I replaced the hoses, new gasket and everything.
Thanks for all the replys guys, I have a lot of testing/checking to do this weekend :-)
I am getting a nice little loan soon to beef up and otherwise replace some of the older stock parts on my stang so maybe an aluminum radiator is in the works now....hmmmm
> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat. > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > > Hope this helps. Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 17:29 GMT > I replaced the thermostat when I replaced the hoses, new gasket and > everything. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > some of the older stock parts on my stang so maybe an aluminum > radiator is in the works now....hmmmm Check Autozone, Advanced Auto etc. for their radiators. One of them has a high performance one that is designated "extra cooling" or something like that. I got one of these for my car at around $125 and it works great. I have run up to 16 psi of boost and never had a cooling issue.
>> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat. >> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >>> top it off if necessary, until it stabilizes. >>> Hope this helps. Jim Custer - 20 Jul 2007 20:28 GMT Just a couple thoughts. I'm also just a mid-level hobbyist, so someone else might have better input... First, I'd wonder about the thermostat. They do wear out and eventually fail, and that would cause your problem. If you have a Chilton / Haynes book, you CAN replace a thermostat yourself. On this motor, they're a pain in the !#@%^# to get to, with some hoses in the way, but if you could replace your radiator hoses, you can do this. Next, anytime the coolant system is 'compromised' ie loses coolant, takes in air; you have to 'burp' it, or purge the air. Basically, if / when coolant leaked, air took it's place. When you refilled the radiator, an air bubble was 'stuck' somewhere and the net effect is that you're low on coolant, even after topping it off. Also, when you tested it, realize that driving on the road, presumably with the A/C on puts more load on the engine and also generates more heat. To 'burp' it, make sure it's parked completely level, or even with the nose slightly high, so the radiator cap is the highest point on the system - air will work its way to a high point. Turn it on, put the heat on high, and let it run. Check every 3 - 5 minutes, and top off the coolant when the level drops. I usually do this over about a half hour. Other thoughts would be the fan clutch (I've had them go bad on two Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic (although that's a long shot).
GT5OH - 20 Jul 2007 22:50 GMT Yeah I replaced the thermostat when i did the hoses, it wasn't too bad but I figured might as well right? :-) Anyway, I also have a brand new "bullet proof" upgraded transmission from Ford, with a nice lifetime warranty on parts and labor from the transmission shop, so that shouldn't be the problem, although now that you mention it, I think I will take it in and have them check it out. As for the rest, I did try to purge the air bubbles but maybe I just didn't get them all out....I am considering getting a loan from the bank to just do a real overhaul on all the old stock parts, I really love this car and it only has 83,000 and change original miles. Thanks for the input guys!
Sean
> Just a couple thoughts. I'm also just a mid-level hobbyist, so > someone else might have better input... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic > (although that's a long shot). Ashton Crusher - 22 Jul 2007 06:35 GMT I've had two LX 5.0 fox bodies - terrific vehicles. On one of them that was running hot even after the radiator was replaced the cure was a new heavy duty fan clutch - about $40 at Autozone. Dropped the temp about 10 degrees overall and kept it from creeping up at every stoplight. When I bought my S-10 pickup, used with 130K miles on it, it would sound like it was boiling inside the engine every time I turned it off in the summer. The cure for that was a new radiator cap - the old one simply was not keeping the pressure high enough and the hot spots in the engine would start to boil when it was shut off and the water stopped moving.
>Yeah I replaced the thermostat when i did the hoses, it wasn't too bad >but I figured might as well right? :-) Anyway, I also have a brand [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic >> (although that's a long shot). hank - 29 Jul 2007 21:57 GMT I'm in Phoenix too. My '89 has 175,000 on it. Mostly all orginal. It would sometimes run hot in the summer (80~100 miles/day to work). I put in a Pep Boys 3 core radiator for $120. Decided to replace the cap, temp sender and thermostat with stock Ford parts. Temp Guage was now reading 3/4 all the time instead of 1/2. Firend gave me a portable digital infrared temp gun. The themrostat housing was reading 190 (perfect) and radiator was about 180. So its just the sender. Mostly goes up to 3/4 (now the norm) and stays there no matter where I drive (including up to Williams).
Let me know if I can help (101 and Cave Creek Rd). With that low mileage you shouldn't need to replace much. The best add on I did was a Ford engine oil cooler.
hank
>Yeah I replaced the thermostat when i did the hoses, it wasn't too bad >but I figured might as well right? :-) Anyway, I also have a brand [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic >> (although that's a long shot). tom - 01 Aug 2007 03:01 GMT I'm in Phoenix (Mesa)...today my 96GT with 61K heated up to "4/4" (RED) on my way home...a couple of blocks away from my house...then (not surprisingly) the a/c went out, as well as the power brakes and power steering :-)
FWIW, during the summer, my temp gauge has always been (since day one) at 3/4. Never checked temps with another instrument, though.
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> I'm in Phoenix too. My '89 has 175,000 on it. Mostly all orginal. It > would sometimes run hot in the summer (80~100 miles/day to work). I [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >>> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic >>> (although that's a long shot). GT5OH - 03 Aug 2007 00:13 GMT > I'm in Phoenix too. My '89 has 175,000 on it. Mostly all orginal. It > would sometimes run hot in the summer (80~100 miles/day to work). I [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > >> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic > >> (although that's a long shot). Hey Hank,
This is Sean, we met once at Kinko's to make copies of the wiring diagrams you had when I was having trouble with my power window. By the way I fixed it and it works great now! Anyway, I did just replace the thermostat when i replaced all the hoses so it should be fine. I tried running the engine with the radiator cap off to get rid of the air but the coolant comes right up to the top and i ran it for like 30 minutes so i don't think air is the problem. I am probably going to replace the water pump and the fan/fan clutch and see if that helps it. Its really weird though because sometimes it doesn't get that hot and sometimes it just shoots right up there. I would say it stays in the lower 3/4 range of the temp gauge though, and oh yeah I did replace the radiator cap which didn't do much at all. I am trying to decide if I want to go ahead and get a small loan and just replace a bunch of stuff that needs it such as radiator, water pump, brake upgrade, suspension, etc.
Thanks Hank
hank - 03 Aug 2007 08:20 GMT Sean
I thought it might be you. Glad the window is fixed.
I hate to ask, but is the thermostat placed in the correct direction?
If you get the engine warm with the cap off (or park in the sun for a few hours) you should see the coolant flow across the radiator. Can you see the end of the tubes in the radiator? My old one had tons of calcium buildup blocking the flow. I use distlled water with my coolant.
I can always bring my digital temp gauge and meet up with you again.
Like others have posted, I stay close stock with most parts. If you're an Arizona Mustang club member, you get 25 to 50% off parts at 5 Star Ford!
hank
>Hey Hank, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Thanks Hank GT5OH - 04 Aug 2007 00:32 GMT > Sean > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > >Thanks Hank Hey Hank (and everyone else) :-)
I am 99.9% sure I put the t-stat in the right way but you never know so I will check :-)
I may sound dumb saying this but what exactly do you mean by I should see the fluid flow across the radiator? You mean in the hoses or what?
Also, the radiator house I just put on gets EXTREMELY hot after I have driven for a while, is that normal?
I am not sure about calcium build-up but I will try to check.
Thanks
Sean
WindsorFox - 04 Aug 2007 01:13 GMT >> Sean >> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > see the fluid flow across the radiator? You mean in the hoses or > what? When you look through the cap hole.
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hank - 04 Aug 2007 06:07 GMT Sean
When looking into the radiator neck you should see the water flowing from the passenger to the driver side of the radiator. But it has to be warmed up so the thermostat is open and flowing. This is where you should look in and see if you have calcium buildup on the ends of the tubes.
I like Walts suggestion of adjusting the stock guage back to the middle. I may have to try that (when the temps drop below 100 at night). Portable infrared digital guage will give you the best idea of what is happening. If the t-stat housng is 190 you're fine.
hank
>> Sean >> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > >Sean WindsorFox - 04 Aug 2007 18:12 GMT > Sean > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >> >> Sean What??
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walt peifer - 03 Aug 2007 17:29 GMT >> I'm in Phoenix too. My '89 has 175,000 on it. Mostly all orginal. It >> would sometimes run hot in the summer (80~100 miles/day to work). I [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > Thanks Hank the gauges in the dash are notoriously inaccurate and subject to all kinds of influence. If the pyrometer shows the T-stat housing at around 190-200 and the water temp is around 220-230 your fine. the cars are supposed to run warmish. if the gauge really bothers you. Pull the cluster turn the set screw on the back of the gauge housing so that at operating temp it rides in the middle.
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