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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / August 2007

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Fox Body GT getting hot...what gives???

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GT5OH - 20 Jul 2007 00:16 GMT
I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I
drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I
drive, the hotter it gets (no sh.t sherlock) but this is where I am
confused.  I removed all my hoses coming from the radiator and the
water pump and sure enough there was a small hole in both hoses so I
replaced them and filled her back up with coolant and then ran it with
radiator cap off for a while and then took her for a spin.  The engine
was cooling just fine and I stayed in normal temp range so I went
home, mission accomplished right? WRONG!  Next day I drive her to work
and the same thing starts happening again!  I couldn't believe it so
when I got home from work (by this time it was pretty hot) and popped
the hood and I can hear the coolant in the radiator bubbling like
crazy.  Is this a problem with my radiator or with the water pump or
what?????  Keep in mind I do live in Phoenix, AZ so it is HOT here but
that can't be the only problem right???  Thanks for bearing with me, I
am new to this but I am learning, at least I know how to replace some
hoses now :-)

Thanks Guys

Sean
1990 GT 5.0
Joe - 20 Jul 2007 00:58 GMT
GT5OH <goldandjewels@gmail.com> wrote in news:1184887011.843213.203590
@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

> I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I
> drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Sean
> 1990 GT 5.0

Air pockets in the system, perhaps?
Les Benn - 20 Jul 2007 01:18 GMT
> GT5OH <goldandjewels@gmail.com> wrote in news:1184887011.843213.203590
> @x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Air pockets in the system, perhaps?
definitely look for air in the system if that is not it do you have a
temperature regulated high speed fan? Is it kicking on? do you have the
correct anti freeze mix? It needs to have a boiling point at about 235
degrees. I live in AZ too and I had this issue with a 98 Vette. I had the
anti freeze mix incorrect and had a slow leak in a hose. fixed both and it
worked fine although in stop and go traffic in Phoenix it would heat up to
225 before the high speed fan would kick in. It definitely scared me to see
the temp that high but it was working as designed.
Les Benn - 20 Jul 2007 01:20 GMT
> GT5OH <goldandjewels@gmail.com> wrote in news:1184887011.843213.203590
> @x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Air pockets in the system, perhaps?
I forgot one thing clean the fins in the radiator too with water to get bugs
and dirt out. Bugs and dirt will plug up the cooling fins in the radiator.
GILL - 20 Jul 2007 01:37 GMT
> I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I
> drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Sean
> 1990 GT 5.0

Time for a new rad?

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scott and barb - 20 Jul 2007 02:05 GMT
Buy a Mister Gasket 190degree stat and try this first.Maybe rad needs
unplugged?
> I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I
> drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Sean
> 1990 GT 5.0
Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 02:09 GMT
> I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I
> drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> am new to this but I am learning, at least I know how to replace some
> hoses now :-)

Here are the a few things that can cause overheating that come to mind:

1)  Air in the cooling system.  This is more probably after draining the
system and refilling.  Usually driving will work out the bubble.

2)  A bad water pump.  Typically there will be a leak present but not
always.  With a bad water pump the car will usually overheat under all
driving conditions.

3)  A bad clutch on the fan.  This will usually cause overheating in
stop and go driving but not during highway driving.  At high speeds the
there will be sufficient air moving through the radiator to cool the
coolant.

4)  A clogged radiator.  This will usually cause overheating under all
driving conditions, especially stop and go driving.  Sometimes you can
feel the return side of the radiator and find it abnormally cool.  Also,
an infrared laser thermometer can show hot and cool spots through the
radiator that indicates inconsistent cooling and thus a clog.

5)  One last thing that comes to mind isn't a good one, a blown head
gasket.  If this is the case most times you will find oil in the coolant
or coolant in the oil.  Not always though.  The leak can be small and
only occurring under combustion at high pressure.  In this case the
combustion gases get into the coolant, heating it and causing air
pockets.  There are paper strips some shops use to detect the presence
of hydrocarbons in the coolant.  They are very sensitive and can tell
you a head gasket leak is present when there are no other symptoms.

There is a trick you can use to help diagnose if it is a clogged
radiator or clutch fan.  When it overheats turn the interior heat on
high and the blower fan on high.  If this drops the temperature some
then I put my money on the clutch or the radiator.  Then if it doesn't
overheat at highway speeds I say its the radiator.

I have used the heater blasting at full speed in the summer more than
once to limp home without boiling over.  It is amazing how much this
will help cool the engine.

Also, make sure the reservoir is filled to the full mark.  Check it, and
top it off if necessary, until it stabilizes.

Hope this helps.
Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 02:36 GMT
All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat.

>> I am having problems with the cooling system on my 1990 GT, when I
>> drive anywhere the temp gauge reads higher than normal and the more I
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
> Hope this helps.
Blue Gator - 20 Jul 2007 03:41 GMT
> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat.
>
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>>
>> Hope this helps.

Nobody has mentioned the radiator cap!  Won't it cause overheating if it
 doesn't hold pressure?
Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 04:44 GMT
>> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> Nobody has mentioned the radiator cap!  Won't it cause overheating if it
>  doesn't hold pressure?

The cooling system won't be as efficient.  Also, the reservoir might not
function properly.  You're right though it should be checked too.
Richard - 20 Jul 2007 07:22 GMT
> >> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
> The cooling system won't be as efficient.  Also, the reservoir might not
> function properly.  You're right though it should be checked too.

And timing. I couldn't hear the pinging (old age I guess) but the guy
running the dyno did. Turns out the 16 deg advance (spec is 10) caused
enough detonation to raise the temperature alarmingly fast under load. The
temperature would fall back to normal almost as quickly when the  load was
removed. In hindsight this problem appears to have originated when I had the
stator replaced about 1 1/2 years ago. I'm guessing but that was the last
time the timing was adjusted. I replaced the sending unit and radiator cap
made sure the rad wasn't obstructed. Nothing changed. Temperature was always
normal at cruising speed and around town but if I was climbing a steep grade
for a mile or so and wanted to maintain speed the temperature gauge went to
the max.

Now, I'm wondering what damage might have occurred that isn't showing up
yet. Especially since I'm installing a KB supercharger next Tuesday.

Which leads me to the next question. Is there a aftermarket knock sensor for
a '94 5.0. As best as I can determine there is no OEM knock sensor for the
94-95's.

Richard
Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 08:52 GMT
>>>> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 85 lines]
> Now, I'm wondering what damage might have occurred that isn't showing up
> yet. Especially since I'm installing a KB supercharger next Tuesday.

I doubt much damage at all.  You can always do compression and leak down
tests to see if there is a problem in the works.

> Which leads me to the next question. Is there a aftermarket knock sensor for
> a '94 5.0. As best as I can determine there is no OEM knock sensor for the
> 94-95's.

I use one a J&S Safeguard on my '89 LX that has a Blowilla/Flowzilla
setup.  It is a good unit but pricey.  Beats dealing with blown head
gaskets though.  Here's a link:  http://www.jandssafeguard.com/
Richard - 21 Jul 2007 05:36 GMT
> > Which leads me to the next question. Is there a aftermarket knock sensor for
> > a '94 5.0. As best as I can determine there is no OEM knock sensor for the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> setup.  It is a good unit but pricey.  Beats dealing with blown head
> gaskets though.  Here's a link:  http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

Thanks for the link. I emailed J&S this evening and received this reply from
John Pizzuto.

"Our Universal unit is designed for cars with a distributor and one coil.
It's temporarily discontinued, while we design in a new micro processor.
The old processor is no longer available.  Please check back in two or three
months."

Richard
Michael Johnson - 21 Jul 2007 06:06 GMT
>>> Which leads me to the next question. Is there a aftermarket knock sensor
> for
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> The old processor is no longer available.  Please check back in two or three
> months."

I have dealt with John personally.  He is a good guy.  Very knowledgeable.
Dick R. - 05 Aug 2007 22:17 GMT
Hi all,
On the overheating problem: I had a similar problem on my
95 Ford van when we were in the middle of nowhere, Wisconsin.
Stopped, let it cool down, removed the radiator cap, and
added the only liquid we had - bottled water - to the reservoir.
Upon closer inspection I noticed the top of the radiator was wet.
It was that little hose going from below the radiator cap
to the coolant reservoir that had a small hole in it.
I cut 1" off the hose, plugged it in again, and voila,
problem solved. Your solution may not be that simple.

Just a thought,
Dick R.
GT5OH - 20 Jul 2007 17:08 GMT
I replaced the thermostat when I replaced the hoses, new gasket and
everything.

Thanks for all the replys guys, I have a lot of testing/checking to do
this weekend :-)

I am getting a nice little loan soon to beef up and otherwise replace
some of the older stock parts on my stang so maybe an aluminum
radiator is in the works now....hmmmm

> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat.
>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> > Hope this helps.
Michael Johnson - 20 Jul 2007 17:29 GMT
> I replaced the thermostat when I replaced the hoses, new gasket and
> everything.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> some of the older stock parts on my stang so maybe an aluminum
> radiator is in the works now....hmmmm

Check Autozone, Advanced Auto etc. for their radiators.  One of them has
a high performance one that is designated "extra cooling" or something
like that.  I got one of these for my car at around $125 and it works
great.  I have run up to 16 psi of boost and never had a cooling issue.

>> All those causes of overheating and I forgot to mention the thermostat.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>>> top it off if necessary, until it stabilizes.
>>> Hope this helps.
Jim Custer - 20 Jul 2007 20:28 GMT
Just a couple thoughts.  I'm also just a mid-level hobbyist, so
someone else might have better input...
First, I'd wonder about the thermostat.  They do wear out and
eventually fail, and that would cause your problem.  If you have a
Chilton / Haynes book, you CAN replace a thermostat yourself.  On this
motor, they're a pain in the !#@%^# to get to, with some hoses in the
way, but if you could replace your radiator hoses, you can do this.
Next, anytime the coolant system is 'compromised' ie loses coolant,
takes in air; you have to 'burp' it, or purge the air. Basically, if /
when coolant leaked, air took it's place.  When you refilled the
radiator, an air bubble was 'stuck' somewhere and the net effect is
that you're low on coolant, even after topping it off.  Also, when you
tested it, realize that driving on the road, presumably with the A/C
on puts more load on the engine and also generates more heat. To
'burp' it, make sure it's parked completely level, or even with the
nose slightly high, so the radiator cap is the highest point on the
system - air will work its way to a high point. Turn it on, put the
heat on high, and let it run.  Check every 3 - 5 minutes, and top off
the coolant when the level drops.  I usually do this over about a half
hour.
Other thoughts would be the fan clutch (I've had them go bad on two
Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic
(although that's a long shot).
GT5OH - 20 Jul 2007 22:50 GMT
Yeah I replaced the thermostat when i did the hoses, it wasn't too bad
but I figured might as well right? :-)  Anyway, I also have a brand
new "bullet proof" upgraded transmission from Ford, with a nice
lifetime warranty on parts and labor from the transmission shop, so
that shouldn't be the problem, although now that you mention it, I
think I will take it in and have them check it out.  As for the rest,
I did try to purge the air bubbles but maybe I just didn't get them
all out....I am considering getting a loan from the bank to just do a
real overhaul on all the old stock parts, I really love this car and
it only has 83,000 and change original miles.  Thanks for the input
guys!

Sean

> Just a couple thoughts.  I'm also just a mid-level hobbyist, so
> someone else might have better input...
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic
> (although that's a long shot).
Ashton Crusher - 22 Jul 2007 06:35 GMT
I've had two LX 5.0 fox bodies - terrific vehicles.  On one of them
that was running hot even after the radiator was replaced the cure was
a new heavy duty fan clutch - about $40 at Autozone.  Dropped the temp
about 10 degrees overall and kept it from creeping up at every
stoplight.  When I bought my S-10 pickup, used with 130K miles on it,
it would sound like it was boiling inside the engine every time I
turned it off in the summer.  The cure for that was a new radiator cap
- the old one simply was not keeping the pressure high enough and the
hot spots in the engine would start to boil when it was shut off and
the water stopped moving.

>Yeah I replaced the thermostat when i did the hoses, it wasn't too bad
>but I figured might as well right? :-)  Anyway, I also have a brand
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic
>> (although that's a long shot).
hank - 29 Jul 2007 21:57 GMT
I'm in Phoenix too. My '89 has 175,000 on it. Mostly all orginal. It
would sometimes run hot in the summer (80~100 miles/day to work). I
put in a Pep Boys 3 core radiator for $120. Decided to replace the
cap, temp sender and thermostat with  stock Ford parts. Temp Guage was
now reading 3/4 all the time instead of 1/2. Firend gave me a portable
digital infrared temp gun. The themrostat housing was reading 190
(perfect) and radiator was about 180. So its just the sender. Mostly
goes up to 3/4 (now the norm) and stays there no matter where I drive
(including up to Williams).

Let me know if I can help (101 and Cave Creek Rd). With that low
mileage you shouldn't need to replace much. The best add on I did was
a Ford engine oil cooler.

hank

>Yeah I replaced the thermostat when i did the hoses, it wasn't too bad
>but I figured might as well right? :-)  Anyway, I also have a brand
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic
>> (although that's a long shot).
tom - 01 Aug 2007 03:01 GMT
I'm in Phoenix (Mesa)...today my 96GT with 61K heated up to "4/4" (RED) on
my way home...a couple of blocks away from my house...then (not
surprisingly) the a/c went out, as well as the power brakes and power
steering :-)

FWIW, during the summer, my temp gauge has always been (since day one) at
3/4. Never checked temps with another instrument, though.

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> I'm in Phoenix too. My '89 has 175,000 on it. Mostly all orginal. It
> would sometimes run hot in the summer (80~100 miles/day to work). I
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>>> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic
>>> (although that's a long shot).
GT5OH - 03 Aug 2007 00:13 GMT
> I'm in Phoenix too. My '89 has 175,000 on it. Mostly all orginal. It
> would sometimes run hot in the summer (80~100 miles/day to work). I
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> >> Fox-body 5.0's), or transmission trouble, if it's an automatic
> >> (although that's a long shot).

Hey Hank,

This is Sean, we met once at Kinko's to make copies of the wiring
diagrams you had when I was having trouble with my power window.  By
the way I fixed it and it works great now!  Anyway, I did just replace
the thermostat when i replaced all the hoses so it should be fine.  I
tried running the engine with the radiator cap off to get rid of the
air but the coolant comes right up to the top and i ran it for like 30
minutes so i don't think air is the problem.  I am probably going to
replace the water pump and the fan/fan clutch and see if that helps
it.  Its really weird though because sometimes it doesn't get that hot
and sometimes it just shoots right up there.  I would say it stays in
the lower 3/4 range of the temp gauge though, and oh yeah I did
replace the radiator cap which didn't do much at all.  I am trying to
decide if I want to go ahead and get a small loan and just replace a
bunch of stuff that needs it such as radiator, water pump, brake
upgrade, suspension, etc.

Thanks Hank
hank - 03 Aug 2007 08:20 GMT
Sean

I thought it might be you. Glad the window is fixed.

I hate to ask, but is the thermostat placed in the correct direction?

If  you get the engine warm with the cap off (or park in the sun for a
few hours) you should see the coolant flow across the radiator. Can
you see the end of the tubes in the radiator? My old one had tons of
calcium buildup blocking the flow. I use distlled water with my
coolant.

I can always bring my digital temp gauge and meet up with you again.

Like others have posted, I stay close stock with most parts. If you're
an Arizona Mustang club member, you get 25 to 50% off parts at 5 Star
Ford!

hank

>Hey Hank,
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>Thanks Hank
GT5OH - 04 Aug 2007 00:32 GMT
> Sean
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> >Thanks Hank

Hey Hank (and everyone else) :-)

I am 99.9% sure I put the t-stat in the right way but you never know
so I will check :-)

I may sound dumb saying this but what exactly do you mean by I should
see the fluid flow across the radiator?  You mean in the hoses or
what?

Also, the radiator house I just put on gets EXTREMELY hot after I have
driven for a while, is that normal?

I am not sure about calcium build-up but I will try to check.

Thanks

Sean
WindsorFox - 04 Aug 2007 01:13 GMT
>> Sean
>>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> see the fluid flow across the radiator?  You mean in the hoses or
> what?

    When you look through the cap hole.

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hank - 04 Aug 2007 06:07 GMT
Sean

When looking into the radiator neck you should see the water flowing
from the passenger to the driver side of the radiator. But it has to
be warmed up so the thermostat is open and flowing. This is where you
should look in and see if you have calcium buildup on the ends of the
tubes.

I like Walts suggestion of adjusting the stock guage back to the
middle. I may have to try that (when the temps drop below 100 at
night). Portable infrared digital guage will give you the best idea of
what is happening. If the t-stat housng is 190 you're fine.

hank

>> Sean
>>
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>
>Sean
WindsorFox - 04 Aug 2007 18:12 GMT
> Sean
>
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>>
>> Sean

   What??

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    engraved "Unsubscribe"  - Cadbury Moose

walt peifer - 03 Aug 2007 17:29 GMT
>> I'm in Phoenix too. My '89 has 175,000 on it. Mostly all orginal. It
>> would sometimes run hot in the summer (80~100 miles/day to work). I
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
>
> Thanks Hank

the gauges in the dash are notoriously inaccurate and subject to all kinds
of influence. If the pyrometer shows the T-stat housing at around 190-200
and the water temp is around 220-230 your fine. the cars are supposed to run
warmish. if the gauge really bothers you. Pull the cluster turn the set
screw on the back of the gauge housing so that at operating temp it rides in
the middle.
 
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