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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / January 2008FORD: Straight to the P.R. TOILET with this one!
http://culturegarage.com/2008/01/11/ford-sometimes-i-think-you-want-to-fail/ The Black Mustang Club is a large Mustang forum for people who worship Mustangs, Ford's bread and butter. Like a lot of large forums, they made a calendar of member's cars to sell. Sounds ok, right? Well, Ford's lawyers called them up and said that's a no no. From BMC administrator/owner Lisa: "I'm sorry, but at this point we will not be producing the 2008 BMC Calendar, featuring our 2007 Members of the Month, solely due to Ford Motor Company's claim that THEY own all rights to the photos YOU take of YOUR car. I hope to resolve this soon, and be able to provide the calendar and other BMC merchandise that you guys want and deserve!" I think Ford is shooting themselves in the foot here. BMC did order the calendars from CafePress, which doesn't allow any brand name items to be printed, but from the wording here, it seems Ford would be mad at calendars being printed anywhere. Read the whole thing after the jump. Here's the link to the original forum thread. As expected, there's some choice words for Ford in there. I guess they just don't like free advertising. Black Mustang Club calendar link: http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42402 Volkswagen of America was/is doing the same. It's slowed down now a little. They threatened private people with lawsuits for displaying teh vw logo on their private websites, the text volkswagen, any text written in the VW trademarked logo, and even the shade of BLUE they use in the lettering is illegal to use by anyone but VW, and lawsuits will follow. All for loving their product and promoting them for free. I contacted VW of Germany about it and they washed their hands of it, saying they have no juridiction over what VW of America is doing in the american market. DUMB MOVE. Jan This has to do with Ford's beef with Cafepress, which BMC was planning on using for the calendar sales. The club is working through their attorney to understand where the copyright infringement is. Cafepress would be taking a cut of the sales price, which is where I think the issue is. I think this started with "Ford owns the rights to my photographs", which doesn't appear to be the issue, because of the product involved. Regardless, the action gives the appearance of "screw the enthusiasts". >http://culturegarage.com/2008/01/11/ford-sometimes-i-think-you-want-to-fail/ > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42402 > > This has to do with Ford's beef with Cafepress, which BMC was planning > on using for the calendar sales. The club is working through their [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Regardless, the action gives the appearance of "screw the enthusiasts". The same issue exists with the Mustang Bullitt owners club (www.imboc.com). Ford's lawyers have issued a cease and desist order to prevent the club's use of images etc on the website, calender and t-shirts. The calender was to be published by Cafe Press. The isssue is further muddied by the fact that Warner Bros and the McQueen family estate own the rights to "Bullitt". Ford paid a fee for each car's use of the name. IMBOC is holding a National meet this summer, and it appears that it will be one of the more popular of it's annual meets due to the recent release of the 2008 version of the Bullitt Mustang. Apparently where Ford sees any profit to be made (memberships, calender and shirt sales) they want a piece. rd <2001 Green Bullitt> >> This has to do with Ford's beef with Cafepress, which BMC was >> planning on using for the calendar sales. The club is working [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > <2001 Green Bullitt> Corporations /have/ to defend its copy rights, trade mark rights, or they are liable to lose them. Trouble is, it's not easy to do that and to please everyone at the same time. If they don't act rigorously now, later on that can be seen as a lack of interest. Seems to me the Ford attorneys made some shaky decisions as to how to go about it. They didn't take into account that their language use doesn't make the same kind of sense to non-attorneys it does to attorneys, and that the "victims" of their actions are going to perceive them as /wrong/ based on the effects of their actions, rather than the legal, financial, or moral principles involved. I think the culprit here is CafePress; if they'd had a policy and practice of confirming copy and trade mark rights, and gone to the owners/holders of those rights with an offer, there would be no conflict. Ford /et al/ would have said "NO!" to such a puny amount, and CafePress would have known not to publish the offending materials. I wonder what is the going rate for permission, such as the myriad Mustang and other trade mark specialized magazines must have obtained. I'd really like to hear Ford's rationale for denying me, for instance, the opportunity to make a dozen calendars featuring my own photos of my own hobby activities. I'm just giving them to family and friends, or charging enough to cover expenses and a bit for my time and trouble. Profit is not the motive, and the hobby is the focus, not the object that happens to be manufactured and trade marked by Ford. How much of the individual image frame must be taken up by an identifiable Ford product before it is disqualified? I wonder how the world would be if the parents of attorneys were prescient, and could foresee what the products of law schools they were paying for think up to keep themselves busy. I meant to add that the Black Mustang Club Web site slowed to a crawl and then disappeared this evening. Coincidence?  SignatureFrank ess >>> This has to do with Ford's beef with Cafepress, which BMC was >>> planning on using for the calendar sales. The club is working [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > prescient, and could foresee what the products of law schools they > were paying for think up to keep themselves busy. > Corporations /have/ to defend its copy rights, trade mark rights, or > they are liable to lose them. That is what is at the heart of the issue... not only do they have to defend it, they have to enforce it across the board... they can't pick and choose who they enforce it against. So yes, some times it looks like the big evil corporation is picking on the poor little guy... but unfortunately some of the poor little guy's are illegally producing crappy products which reflect badly on the big corporation... so according to the law the big corporation has to go after everyone... >> Corporations /have/ to defend its copy rights, trade mark rights, or >> they are liable to lose them. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > corporation... so according to the law the big corporation has to go > after everyone... If I understand it correctly then the best bet is to take all of the emblems identifying the car as coming from Manufacturer x before you can legally take a picture of it. this actually sounds like an excellent plan to me. I wonder if you buy a new mustang of any flavor you should immediately tell the dealer to remove all identifying emblems from the car so that you can legally take a picture of it. >>> Corporations /have/ to defend its copy rights, trade mark rights, >>> or they are liable to lose them. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > identifying emblems from the car so that you can legally take a > picture of it. Way I understand it now: if it's an ordinary part of the car's appearance at the time of the photo, no problem; just don't 'shop a Ford logo or such into the picture, implying official Ford sanction. The "closing" thread on BMC Forums is here: http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42820 Resp'y Frank ess > Way I understand it now: if it's an ordinary part of the car's > appearance at the time of the photo, no problem; just don't 'shop a Ford [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Frank ess "My name is Whitney Drake and I work in Ford Communications. We've been watching this discussion with interest and I'd like to clarify what is essentially a misunderstanding." Not a misunderstanding, but probably more like "Holy crap, this is going to be like a a giant barrel of sh.t exploding if we don't defuse it." Then someone official reigns in the a.shole corporate lawyers. Just like the RIAA back paddling after the Sony/BMG lawyers telling a reporter "if you copy music from a bought CD to your computer, you are in violation of our copy right." When they saw the size of the pile about to hit the wind turbine the RIAA made a "clarification" to said lawyers comment. Signature"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath "Daytime television sucked 20 years ago, and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette > > Way I understand it now: if it's an ordinary part of the car's > > appearance at the time of the photo, no problem; just don't 'shop a Ford [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > "Daytime television sucked 20 years ago, > and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette CafePress is basically the ones that messed up here... They are the ones that "misunderstood"... Basically people were taking things like the Ford logos, Mustang logo, etc. and sticking them on t-shirts, hats, cups, etc. and selling them on CafePress. This is clearly illegal! Ford HAS to protect their trademarks... period! You can't simply take someone's trademarked logo and stick it something and sell it! So Ford sends CafePress a letter last fall telling to stop selling stuff that has Ford legally trademarked things like logos on them. This is well within Fords rights! Ford did NOT tell CafePress they couldn't print calendars with people's cars on them... You just can't take a picture of your car and then paste a big Ford Oval in the picture and then try to sell the picture.. The car by itself is fine... That's the part CafePress "misunderstood"... Ford was not the bad guy... Ford simply didn't want me sticking a Ford Oval on a T- shirt and then selling it on CafePress, which is exactly what was happening! I have a real life example... my cousin's ex-wife had home business... she would go down to Walmart, buy $1.00 wall clock. Print a new clock face with a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc. logo on it and then stick it on the cheap-o clock. She would then sell the clocks on e-bay. This is a clear violation of copyright/trademark laws! This is exactly what was happening on CafePress! This is what Ford was trying to stop! There are now companies that are going after E-Bay for the same reason... I had a interesting talk with a trademark lawyer from Chrysler at the Woodward Dream Cruise a few years back... interesting stuff... Companies must protect their trademarks or risk losing them... and they have to go after everyone! They cannot say John's a nice guy so we won't enforce are trademark... they have to go after everyone... which some times makes the company look bad for going after the nice guy John.... it's the way the law is... I think everyone really needs to get a solid understanding of what really happened and how the laws work... Amazing how quick everyone was to judge Ford.... > CafePress is basically the ones that messed up here... They are the > ones that "misunderstood"... > > Basically people were taking things like the Ford logos, Mustang logo, > etc. and sticking them on t-shirts, hats, cups, etc. and selling them > on CafePress. This is clearly illegal! Which of course has nothing to do with BMC or what they were doing. Signature"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath "Daytime television sucked 20 years ago, and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette > > CafePress is basically the ones that messed up here... They are the > > ones that "misunderstood"... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "Daytime television sucked 20 years ago, > and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette It set the stage to what happened with BMC... Ford tells CafePress, "Stop selling stuff with our trademarked logos on it..." CafePress "misunderstands" what Ford told them... CafePress WRONGLY tells BMC, "Sorry, Ford says we can't print your calendar because it has pictures of Mustangs" That is not what Ford told CafePress Yet everyone blew this way out of proportion, without understanding the whole story... You can take a picture of your car(s)... make a nice calendar and sell it... just don't cut and paste a nice Ford logo into the picture... Personally I think CafePress simply overreacted... They just simply said "oops, Mustangs are Fords, so we just won't print anything with Mustangs on it...." BTW... I've had online photo printing services REFUSE to print my pictures because my photos were TOO GOOD!! I get e-mails telling me they won't print my pictures because they look like they came from a professional studio and i am violating copyright laws... LOL! The funny part is I can resubmit them and the next guy that looks at them will approve them and they get printed... LOL > This has to do with Ford's beef with Cafepress, which BMC was planning on > using for the calendar sales. The club is working through their attorney > to understand where the copyright infringement is. Cafepress would be > taking a cut of the sales price, which is where I think the issue is. The problem usually comes down to money changing hands. I highly doubt that Ford cares at all about my website with pictures of my Mustangs, since no one is charged for the privilege of looking at them. > I think this started with "Ford owns the rights to my photographs", which > doesn't appear to be the issue, because of the product involved. > > Regardless, the action gives the appearance of "screw the enthusiasts". Ford, like any other business, has to protect its brand. It's a damn shame, but they should step in any time someone is generating income from its names, likenesses, logos, or images. On a side note, my wife was wondering if it was possible to copyright oneself (no, it isn't). While she can't copyright her person or her name, you can bet that if anyone was selling calendars with HER unauthorized photo in them, she could sue the hell out of 'em. But I don't think that's a copyright issue, where images of a Ford Mustang would be. dwight Below is an update from the BMC founder - *** THANK YOU FORD *** Get rid of those CENSOR graphics ... the calendar issue (and rights to print images of our own vehicles) has been resolved. After hearing from a few members of the Ford marketing and communications team, I have Ford approval to proceed with printing our 2008 calendar as-is as well as use Danni (and our other vehicles) in BMC logos and all the club marketing materials we have been thus far. The 2008 BMC Calendar featuring the Members of the Month from 2007 is now on sale! I will not be using Cafepress for printing our calendar or any other materials as (1) they have not yet released our calendar for printing as (2) they are not compliant with Ford, and I do not want to support them for that reason. If you wish to order the now-famous calendar, please ORDER HERE <http://www.bmcspeedshop.com/product_p/bmc-c08.htm> through our own online store, and the calendars will ship in approximately 10 days. Also, just as you emailed Ford, posted on your local forums and spread the word about this issue when it first arose, PLEASE follow-up with a 'thank you' email to Ford, and PLEASE post a link to this new thread on ALL the forums who have been discussing this issue. I appreciate at this is resolved. Special thank you to Whitney, who has joined our forums and sent the following message: My name is Whitney Drake and I work in Ford Communications. We've been watching this discussion with interest and I'd like to clarify what is essentially a misunderstanding. Yesterday we spoke to both Cafe Press and the Black Mustang Club and explained the situation (about the Black Mustang Club’s calendar) to everyone's satisfaction. Ford has no problem with Mustang or other car owners taking pictures of their vehicles for use in club materials like calendars. What we do have an issue with are individuals using Ford’s logo and other trademarks for products they intend to sell. Understandably, we have to take the protection of our brands and licensing very seriously. Ford did not send the Black Mustang Club a “cease and desist” letter telling them that they could not use images of their own cars in their calendar. The decision not to allow the calendars to be printed was made by Cafe Press, because we had gotten in touch with them in the past about trademark infringements on products they sold. The Black Mustang Club, and any other Ford enthusiast club, are free to take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials as long as they don't use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold. I think it is great that the Black Mustang Club, and any other enthusiast club, would take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials. I'm looking forward to purchasing a copy to hang in the garage next to my Mustang (even if mine isn't black). Thanks for giving us the chance to have our say. Please take a moment to send Whitney an e-gift here through the forums to thank her for working with us to get this resolved, and for wanting the calendar, too! She's been a great help and I'll continue to work with Whitney and the Ford team, so welcome her to the BMC family! If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me directly. I'm enjoyed hearing from all of you who have written with words of encouragement and support. Thank you very much for greatly extending the BMC family this week! Lisa >http://culturegarage.com/2008/01/11/ford-sometimes-i-think-you-want-to-fail/ > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42402 > > http://culturegarage.com/2008/01/11/ford-sometimes-i-think-you-want-to-fail/ > > The Black Mustang Club is a large Mustang forum for people who > worship > Mustangs, Ford's bread and butter. Like a lot of large forums, they > made a calendar of member's cars to sell. Sounds ok, right? Resolved. See http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42820 Ed Taking a page right out of the R.I.A.A. Public Relations Handbook. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. John B. http://culturegarage.com/2008/01/11/ford-sometimes-i-think-you-want-to-fail/ > The Black Mustang Club is a large Mustang forum for people who worship > Mustangs, Ford's bread and butter. Like a lot of large forums, they [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42402 |
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