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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / April 2005

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ANWR shall yield to my Big Iron dreams

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Educated Republican - 26 Mar 2005 20:29 GMT
I drive a Ford F250 (full size, American made, accept no substitutes)
with a 6.8L Triton V10 engine that needs lots of clean fuel. I ride
tall and proud in American iron and I need American oil to power it.
Since 1960 the ANWR reserve has been waiting for God fearing Americans
to extract our deserved bounty from it. We have waited long enough for
the sake of some dumb animals we can't even see, let alone hunt. What
good is land after all unless it serves Him and His true children?

I will not let Birkenstock-wearing, polar bear hugging, dope smoking
eco-weenies deny ME MY right to drive what I want, where I want and
however fast I want. Rush says we can get 10 years of oil from ANWR (or
was it oil after 10 years - who cares?) I will never EVER buy an alien
looking Prius or any future hybrid truck sh.t cause I need the rumble
of those 10 pistons when I'm sitting still. That V10 thunder assures me
that I have massive American torque on tap at all moments. You never
know when you might have to pull a stump.

Drill ANWR now and stop your eco-whining about "nature." True nature is
against everything America stands for. We were born to build and haul
big loads in Big Iron.

Steve

"It's money that matters, hear what I say..." (Randy Newman)
Matt Mead - 26 Mar 2005 21:34 GMT
>I drive a Ford F250 (full size, American made, accept no substitutes)
>with a 6.8L Triton V10 engine that needs lots of clean fuel. I ride
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>"It's money that matters, hear what I say..." (Randy Newman)

Welcome back idiot!

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
andro - 26 Mar 2005 22:13 GMT
You'd be wise to start looking into producing substitutes for fossil
fuel because the oil is going to start getting very scarce a lot sooner
than ten years.

"Educated Republican" <educated_republican@yahoo.com> wrote in message:
> I drive a Ford F250 (full size, American made, accept no substitutes)
> with a 6.8L Triton V10 engine that needs lots of clean fuel. I ride
> tall and proud in American iron and I need American oil
Roedy Green - 27 Mar 2005 01:37 GMT
>You'd be wise to start looking into producing substitutes for fossil
>fuel because the oil is going to start getting very scarce a lot sooner
>than ten years.

Guess who is thinking ahead -- the Japanese. When the pain gets too
great to continue using oil because of price and greenhouse gas side
effects, who are you going to call? The Japanese who have been quietly
getting the technology ready.

The USA will then be totally at Japan's mercy. The USA will HAVE to
retool no matter what the cost.  Even the US military will be useless
without oil.
 
It is as if the USA has an unconscious death wish with its deliberate
blindness to the oil crunch.

Republicans claim to believe Bush when he tells them UA Flight 93
was hijacked by Saudi terrorists who were not aboard.
Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes

OrionCA - 27 Mar 2005 01:00 GMT
<snip>

GoAT.

--
"It's a cliche that happens to be true: To win support,
candidates and parties have to stand for something.
They cannot be strictly against the opposition. Even
worse, they cannot be for and against what the other
side believes in."

- Boston Globe, 1/13/05
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/01/13/blur
red_messages_from_democrats?mode=PF

Roedy Green - 27 Mar 2005 01:32 GMT
>Rush says we can get 10 years of oil from ANWR (or
>was it oil after 10 years - who cares?)

I did a calculation a while ago, and it was under 2 years, presuming
no increase in demand.

Perhaps we need a third party to check the figures.

In any case, by destroying ANWR you get to procrastinate going to
alternate energy a little longer, letting the Japanese get that much
further ahead in clean energy.  BUT you lose ANWR.  Seems to me a
questionable benefit and a very high cost.

Republicans claim to believe Bush when he tells them UA Flight 93
was hijacked by Saudi terrorists who were not aboard.
Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes

R&B - 28 Mar 2005 05:13 GMT
Mr. Educated:
After the drilling, I don't see why we can't kill all of the animals and
have them canned to be sold at Wal-Mart. After all, once all the holes are
drilled and the land is decimated, the animals won't need the area anymore.
In addition, why not develop the entire area. Let big republican business
supporters sell every square foot and bull doze all the trees. Think of the
profits that could be made. When the drilling starts, the Excursion will be
back, with a bigger motor and six wheels. With the oil flowing, 3 miles to
the gallon will be acceptable mileage in America.
Ron

.
>I drive a Ford F250 (full size, American made, accept no substitutes)
> with a 6.8L Triton V10 engine that needs lots of clean fuel. I ride
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> "It's money that matters, hear what I say..." (Randy Newman)
Ernie Sparks - 10 Apr 2005 05:41 GMT
I agree. Kill all the animals (they're not doing us any good there anyway),
drill for the oil, pump it only for our use and let the stupid arabs drink
their oil for a while. Anyway, these tree-hugging idiots believe everything
the liberal "thinkless tanks" come up with. We have plenty of oil to supply
the world for a long time to come. It's just that admitting so doesn't fit
their agenda. By the way, there are more deer in American now than when
Columbus discovered this place (or was it the Norse? Oh well, who cares we
own it now) and more forests than ever. If they would only let the lumber
companies harvest the way they want there would be an almost inexhaustable
supply of wood for whatever we need. The eco-terrists want everything
stopped, as long as it doesn't affect them.
Here's an idea: For every worthless animal killed in Anwr let's replace it
with a tree-hugging PETA rep.
Matt Mead - 10 Apr 2005 16:23 GMT
>Here's an idea: For every worthless animal killed in Anwr let's replace it
>with a tree-hugging PETA rep.

Sounds like a sound plan to me!

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
Dave Mundt - 10 Apr 2005 18:24 GMT
    Greetings and Salutations...
    Great parody, in the spirit of Swift's "A Modest Proposal"!

>I agree. Kill all the animals (they're not doing us any good there anyway),
>drill for the oil, pump it only for our use and let the stupid arabs drink
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Columbus discovered this place (or was it the Norse? Oh well, who cares we
>own it now) and more forests than ever. If they would only let the lumber

http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1985_November_December/The_Deer_of_North_
America

http://www.wheretoshoot.org/specialty/hunting2.html

    I find it interesting that these two sites seem to agree
pretty well on the NUMBER of deer in America...  However, alas, it
also seems that at best there are 1/3 to 1/4 the number of deer
that roamed the land when American was unsullied wilderness.
    As for the lumber...I suspect that you don't have a lot
of contact with building ANYTHING from wood.   Over the past
30 years that *I* have been woodworking, I have seen some
significant changes.
    1) The quality of construction material has dropped
enormously and the cost has risen through the roof.  In the
70s, one could get good, stright 2x4 stock with almost no knots
from small branches and tight, strong grain for $0.50/$75 per
stud.  Now...the studs are full of knots and pin-branch roots,
they curl all over the place and have grain the size of soda
straws, and, cost $2.50 or more each.
    2) In the 60s and 70s it used to be very easy to get 1"x12"
stock for cabinetry.  Not any more.  If it is available, it is often
a "special order", it is bloody expensive, and, while the quality has
not dropped as much as with construction grade stuff, it is still
harder to get great looking wood these days.
    Why is this the case?   In the case of construction lumber,
the logging industry clear-cut the old growth timber, then walked
away from the denuded landscape.  After decades of neglect, they
were forced to start replanting...but have chosen to plant species
that will grow to "maturity" in the shortest possible time.  Volume
of wood does not come for free.  The quicker the wood grows, the more
of if that is left as air when it dries.  The more air...the less
structurally sound it is.   The only way to fix this problem is to
go back to planting slower growing, denser species, and, take the
time to let them come to maturnity.  If this takes 30 years instead
of 10...so be it.
    As for the case of cabinet woods...again...the old growth
has been cut, and, with these woods (walnut, Maple, etc), it takes
many decades to produce a tree several feet in diameter, so we may
not see wood of that quality again.
    To say there are more forests than when America was discovered
is at worst an outright falsehood, or, at best, an overstatement of
reality.  There may be almost as many trees...but how can one compare
a grove of twigs a foot or less in diameter, that has grown in a
couple of decades, to a grove of giants some twenty FEET in diameter,
that have been growing for a couple hundred years?   There is no
comparison between the quality and quantity of wood available from
the latter..

>companies harvest the way they want there would be an almost inexhaustable
>supply of wood for whatever we need. The eco-terrists want everything
>stopped, as long as it doesn't affect them.

    History shows that if we allow the logging companies to
harvest the way they WANT, we end up with millions of acres of bare,
eroding land, covered with rotting stumps.  The fact of the matter is
that companies (especially now) are run by short-sighted beancounters
whose only goal is to keep their cozy jobs by ensuring that the stock
holders get big returns every quarter.  This means cutting expenses
to the bone..and in their eyes, investing in the future by replanting
logged lands is nothing more than a huge hassle and expense...to be
cut.
    It is true that wood is a renewable resource, but, it requires
that the public pressure the industry to not only replant the logged
lands but, to replant them with a diverse collection of species that
reflects the original mix of plants.  This will ensure that the next
time the land is logged, the quality of the wood gathered will be
as good as the last time.  However, this also gets back to the fact
that this will cut down on growth speed...and will require patience
to wait for the next harvest.
    So, on the positive side, thanks to public pressure, the
industry IS replanting trees.  The downside is that they are ONLY
planting the species that they believe will produce the most volume
of wood in the shortest time.   It is called "monoculture" and, is a
bad thing.  It leaves huge stands of trees vulnerable to infection,
pests, etc, allowing huge areas of them to be killed when they
get infected.  One of the benefits of a multi-species planting
is that it leaves islands of a given species, and makes it harder
for pests to travel from area to area...  If you want a human
example...look what happened to the Native American cultures when
the European diseases were introduced.   The natives had no
immunity to them, so, the bugs spread like wildfire, and, what
would have been a mild illness to a European was deadly to
the Native.  
    Oh yea...it can happen again, by the by...I just heard
a report that antibiotic resistant Staph infections have started
popping up outside of the hospitals where they have been most
common.  Modern medicines are great, but, something like this
could cut back on that 11 billion population in the world REALLy
quickly.

>Here's an idea: For every worthless animal killed in Anwr let's replace it
>with a tree-hugging PETA rep.

    Hum....

    Regards
    dave mundt
   
Ernie Sparks - 19 Apr 2005 03:06 GMT
> Greetings and Salutations...
> Great parody, in the spirit of Swift's "A Modest Proposal"!
>
> >I agree. Kill all the animals (they're not doing us any good there anyway),
> >drill for the oil, pump it only for our use and let the stupid arabs drink
> >their oil for a while.

> I find it interesting that these two sites seem to agree
> pretty well on the NUMBER of deer in America...  However, alas, it
> also seems that at best there are 1/3 to 1/4 the number of deer
> that roamed the land when American was unsullied wilderness.

First some facts. There ARE more white tail and mule deer in America now
than when Europeans first arrived. There are some interesting reasons for
this but probably the biggest is that farmers cleared land and planted crops
that deer dearly love (sorry for that).

> As for the lumber...I suspect that you don't have a lot
> of contact with building ANYTHING from wood.

I would venture to guess that since I normally had wood hauled in by the
semi-truck load I've probably used more wood in my lifetime than you have
building cabinets for 30 or even 40 years. BTW I not only manufactured Rvs
with wood I also worked for a while as a home builder so I not only know
wood but have worked with it since I was a boy whittling knives and swords
with a pocket knife. Which reminds me, you can't even carry one of those to
school now without bringing on a hoard of police cars with guns drawn and
helicopters overhead. Remember when some schools had shooting ranges in the
basement where you could bring your dad's ole 22 single shot to school for
training in target practice and safe gun handling? Don't hardly see that
anymore, now do ya!?

 Over the past
> 30 years that *I* have been woodworking, I have seen some
> significant changes.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> time to let them come to maturnity.  If this takes 30 years instead
> of 10...so be it.

As for the forests here is a well-known fact. If the lumber companies were
permitted to go into national forests and remove the larger old growth trees
the younger, smaller trees would have a better chance. Also, when forest
fires strike we wouldn't loose nearly as much of the old growth. When the
tree-huggers throw a ring around a given stand of trees and say, "No, don't
cut any of these, you can take those over there," it creates a situation
where the lumber companies are trying to satisfy public demand for wood but
are forced to take everything in their path because they are limited so much
in where they can harvest.
Incidentally, I'm getting ready to do a major remodel on our own home and
plan to use steel studs wherever possible. Totally straight, never warp,
already set up with electrical chases, etc. Just remember, not everyone fits
a mold and things are not always as the liberal press likes you to think.

> As for the case of cabinet woods...again...the old growth
> has been cut, and, with these woods (walnut, Maple, etc), it takes
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> comparison between the quality and quantity of wood available from
> the latter..

No question you can't find black walnut trees 4-feet in diameter anymore but
that's just life. Same with the redwoods. You cut one and it takes a long
time to grow another one. Just a fact of life.
You say you work with a lot of cabinet woods so I guess we can blame you for
the reduction in available woods such as walnut, maple, etc. If you're so
concerned why not just build your cabinets out of pressboard and cover it
with a high-pressure laminate. Lasts a lot longer and you can actually make
the substrate pretty much with "junk" wood and glue. Oh wait, your customers
want something better and different, oh, and they have cash too. Guess
you're in the same class as everyone else who's trying to scratch out a
living. You give a little and take a little. Some just take more and give
less.....that's all.

> >Here's an idea: For every worthless animal killed in Anwr let's replace it
> >with a tree-hugging PETA rep.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Regards
> dave mundt
Rose Melinis - 10 Apr 2005 19:31 GMT
That should be been one of the Republican Party's planks way back in 1996.
They probably would have won. Geese are also on the rise, so are Bald
Eagles, so are Herons, Egrets, Hawks, Falcons, etc. My photos from my area
in the 1950's shows no trees, just new subdivisions and flat prairie
farmland. Now the entire area looks like wilderness forest. The only
emergency ecological problems are the damn imports brought over in the
ballast tanks of foreign ships.

>I agree. Kill all the animals (they're not doing us any good there anyway),
> drill for the oil, pump it only for our use and let the stupid arabs drink
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Here's an idea: For every worthless animal killed in Anwr let's replace it
> with a tree-hugging PETA rep.
Scott - 28 Mar 2005 08:16 GMT
>I drive a Ford F250 (full size, American made, accept no substitutes)

I'll bet you're neither educated, nor republican.

I bet you don't even vote.
noddy@telus.net - 28 Mar 2005 17:41 GMT
> I'll bet you're neither educated, nor republican.
>
> I bet you don't even vote.

Yeah but he's shacked up with the prdiest gurl !
She's the one with the tooth .
 
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