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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / June 2006Nightmares or Accolades for 06 or 07 F250 powerstroke
Hi I am seriously considering purchasing an 06 or 07 Ford F250 with the Powerstroke drive train. I was wondering if anybody has any info them since they changed the transmission in 04. I know they used to have a lot of problems with the older tranmissions and was wondering if they got it right?? They say they warranty to 100K but I haven't looked at the warranty specifically. I have a feeling it is only the case. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!! Mike "Mike F" <mikekil13@hotmail.com> wrote > I am seriously considering purchasing an 06 or 07 Ford F250 with the > Powerstroke drive train. I was wondering if anybody has any info them > since they changed the transmission in 04. I know they used to have a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks!! > Mike Actually the "older" transmission wasn't too bad at all (excepting the 2000/2001 glitch for the gasoline drivetrain). Also, the older PS Diesel (7.3 liter) has held up well over the years. (IMO, better then the new version.) Anyway, Ford has developed real quality control issues as widely reported by J.D. Powers and Consumer Reports and I would hesitate to buy at this time. Particularly, since the available Diesel fuel will be severely changed in 2007 (Sulphur content dropping from 500ppm to 15ppm). This is a huge issue in the Diesel powered transportation industry and a big unknown for present Diesel buyers. If you have a choice, I would wait until this all sorts out and Ford gives warranties for existing and future owners of their Diesel powered trucks. Just my oppinion.... > Anyway, Ford has developed real quality control issues as widely reported by > J.D. Powers and Consumer Reports and I would hesitate to buy at this time. I am not sure what you mean - Ford as a company is "Average" in the JD Power ratings (in the 2006 Initial Quality Study Ford had 127 problems per 100 vehicles versus Toyota's 106 - a different of 0.21 problems per vehicle). The Consumer Reports ratings are worthless and often misleading. The F250 got 4.5 "balls" (or circles) from JP Powers for initial quality. The awesomely high quality, nearly perfect Toyota Tundra only got 4. Consumer Reports doesn't actually rate heavy duty pick-ups, so there is nothing to compare there. Still you have to love CR's opinions, the "new" F150 got average or better marks in every reliability category according to CR's hooky survey, yet they gave it an overall used vehicle rating of poor. The Tundra had similar marks, but was given a good used car rating for most years (even the 2001 which had one full black mark for paint and body quality). You gotta love that CR Toyota bias. Ed "C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote > " > I am not sure what you mean - Ford as a company is "Average" in the JD > Power > ratings (in the 2006 Initial Quality Study Ford had 127 problems per 100 > vehicles versus Toyota's 106 - a different of 0.21 problems per vehicle). > The Consumer Reports ratings are worthless and often misleading. Consumers Reports is one of the most reliable and unbiased sources for brand and vehicle reliability. They don't accept advertisng, buy their own test vehicles on the open market and the reliability ratings are based on more then 200 000 owners filling out an elaborate questionaire for 1-8 year old vehicles! Anyway, I googled today and here are just a few of many relevant sources I found. Click on the links to read the complete article. http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=37&did=1195 "The Power Stroke's warranty repair costs are battering Ford's bottom line. In a conference call with Wall Street analysts last March, a company executive acknowledged that Ford's diesel-powered super-duty pickups suffered from quality problems." http://www.autooninfo.net/NAEd200512CRs2006ReliabilityPredictions.htm "By CR's Predicted Short-Term Reliability for Model Year 2006, Toyota and Honda Dominate Best, GM and Ford Dominate Worst." http://www.autooninfo.net/NAEd200512CRs2006ReliabilityPredictions.htm "The 6.4-liter replaces a troublesome 6.0-liter diesel, also made by International. That engine has cost Ford millions in warranty repairs and has angered some of the automaker's most loyal customers" http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2006/05/22/daily36.html "A Reuters report today said Ford has had ongoing problems with the Super Duty's 6.0-liter Powerstroke diesel engine, which is produced by Navistar International Corp. But Ford (NYSE: F) has pushed the official launch back until January (07) and will market the trucks as 2008 models, said Ford spokeswoman Sara Tatchio. Tatchio declined to say whether the delay was related to the engine problems, but she said the 2008 model will have a redesigned Powerstroke engine" > Consumers Reports is one of the most reliable and unbiased sources for > brand and vehicle reliability. Bwahahahahah!!!! Not when it comes to vehicles. If I want to buy a washing machine, I'll consult CR. > They don't accept advertisng, buy their own test vehicles on the open > market and the reliability ratings are based on more then 200 000 owners > filling out an elaborate questionaire for 1-8 year old vehicles! I don't think every vehicle is represented by 200000 owners. They have a distinct bias against the Jeep brand in particular, similar to what CE White said about their opinion of the F150.... >> Consumers Reports is one of the most reliable and unbiased sources for >> brand > and vehicle reliability. Then explain to me this - in 87% (or thereabouts) in tests comparing imports with domestics, the imports can do no wrong and the domestics can do no right. This from personal observations only. > They don't accept advertisng, buy their own test vehicles on the open > market and the reliability ratings are based on more then 200 000 owners > filling out an elaborate questionaire for 1-8 year old vehicles! This doesn't eliminate the very real probability that the results from these questionaires can be/are manipulated to provide a desired result. > Anyway, I googled today and here are just a few of many relevant sources I > found. Click on the links to read the complete article. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > engine problems, but she said the 2008 model will have a redesigned > Powerstroke engine" Now for some real data. These data are from personal tests conducted by me on my 2004 F350 6.0L Power Stroke... Over 35000 miles, without a hiccup, miss, failure to start, etc. Over 87.999% towing a HitchHiker II 30' fifth wheel or with an Angler 9' camper in the back. Two round trips from North Pole AK (that is Alaska not Arkansas) to central Missouri. Three of those were via Seattle, WA and the other leg was via Granville, MA. The only difficulty I encountered was getting around slower vehicles (especially going uphill) that couldn't maintain the speed of surrounding traffic...While I, with my problematic 6.0L Ford, had no trouble at all... Just my two cents worth. Dave D I know you didn't ask about my particular year, but on the transmission issue, my '99 F350 PS Diesel crapped the transmission at 83,000 miles. The warranty only covered the engine on my 7.3L PSD until 100,000 miles. The transmission was out of warranty, originally warranted for 3yr/36Kmiles. It was replaced with a new transmission with "all the updates" allegedly with a 1000HP rated input shaft, and lower 1750rpm lockup converter. It's definitely different (better) than before. Says that right on my paperwork from Ford. Who knows, as long as it'll pull my tractors, and camper, I'm happy with it, now at 112,000 miles. Spdloader >Hi > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Mike I would get a 07 because the 6.0 has been very trouble prone and Ford has had its hands full with it and it is being retired after 06 and replaced with a new motor. The fact that this is being done after the shortest run ever of a diesel engine design in Ford trucks tells you something about the problems Ford had with it and they are wanted to close the book on it. ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com >>Hi >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >The SnoMan >www.thesnoman.com Of course then you have the worry about a "buggy" new engine..... Matt 99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4 (patiently waiting for the blown sparkplug syndrome.....) >Of course then you have the worry about a "buggy" new engine..... While I do agree with this a lot, in this case I would take my chances with a possibly buggy 07 of a new design over a engine of a older design that has a had a stack of problems ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com Most of the problems had been resolved by mid 2004, but I guess Ford is still stinging from the initial quality problems due to faulty injectors and the subpar engine management system developed by Navistar and present in the first year. >>Of course then you have the worry about a "buggy" new engine..... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The SnoMan > www.thesnoman.com >Most of the problems had been resolved by mid 2004, but I guess Ford is >still stinging from the initial quality problems due to faulty injectors and >the subpar engine management system developed by Navistar and present in the >first year. I knew of a guy that actual blew up a 05 6.0 PS when it was a month old because of injector problems deluting oil in crankcase. Hat engine is still not what I would cal "fixed". It is also know to blow hoses off of boost plumbing for intake because it has to run higher boost pressure on a smaller displacement. Sure some have had them and they have been okay but they are far from trouble free and and being that a new engine is coming out I would avoid the 6.0 at this stage. ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com One guy, with problems when the truck was a month old. So they all must be crap, right? I assume the engine was replaced under warranty? I know guys with problems with their 7.3's. I know guys with problems with the 6.0's. Heck, we had a Honda Odyessey three years ago that Honda had to buy back as a lemon because the engine leaked oil like a sieve right off the lot. Does that mean all Honda's are crap? Reality is usually somewhere in between two extremes. >>Most of the problems had been resolved by mid 2004, but I guess Ford is >>still stinging from the initial quality problems due to faulty injectors [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > The SnoMan > www.thesnoman.com > One guy, with problems when the truck was a month old. So they all must be > crap, right? I assume the engine was replaced under warranty? I know guys [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Does that mean all Honda's are crap? > Reality is usually somewhere in between two extremes. Hmmm, sounds from this and other utterings by this poster that we have here either a Ford PR-hireling? at work or, more likely, someone desperately clinging to his denial of the continuing dismail problems of the 6.0 diesel. The warranty cost for this model has reportedly increased by more then $ 500 Million per year (?) and threatens Ford's bottom line. It must be acknowledged though, that Ford has tried to redesign this engine over its short life, particularly after increased user problems (The fuel system re -design alone involved more than 500 different parts), but unfortunately to no avail. Now the 6.0 diesel has been dead-ended and we will see the new 6.4 liter take its place starting Jan 07. Let's keep an open mind and hope that Ford (and Navistar / International) learned a lesson. If we could just get the F-250 with Cummins 5.9 liter!!! Whatever. :-P Hope you have fun with your Ridgeline. >> One guy, with problems when the truck was a month old. So they all must >> be crap, right? I assume the engine was replaced under warranty? I know [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > an open mind and hope that Ford (and Navistar / International) learned a > lesson. If we could just get the F-250 with Cummins 5.9 liter!!! >One guy, with problems when the truck was a month old. So they all must be >crap, right? I assume the engine was replaced under warranty? The industry recommand standard for percentage of fuel in oil that is acceptable is 2%. Ford had to rewrite it for PS 6.0 and say up to 9% is okay because of injector problems to do damage control. Also as far as replacing the motor under warranty, so what, I would not buy a 40K truck that they havee to replace a engine that was a 5K option when it is new and always wonder if they put it back together right. This guy is not alone. Ford bought back a lot of 6.0's ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com >>Of course then you have the worry about a "buggy" new engine..... > > While I do agree with this a lot, in this case I would take my chances > with a possibly buggy 07 of a new design over a engine of a older > design that has a had a stack of problems So go with the CAT diesel..I ve been told it will be an option >>>Of course then you have the worry about a "buggy" new engine..... >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > So go with the CAT diesel..I ve been told it will be an option You can get a 3126 Caterpillar 7.2-liter diesel with up to 300 horsepower and 860 foot-pounds of torque in a F-650/F-750 right now, It's been an option for a few years now... >>Of course then you have the worry about a "buggy" new engine..... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The SnoMan > www.thesnoman.com And still many thousands of 6 liter Power Strokes (Navistar VT 365) have run flawlessly for thousands of miles... Just like mine, not a drip, drop stutter, or hiccup. As powerful, reliable and trouble free as anyone could wish for. The 6.0 L Power Stroke turbo diesel was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2003. "The 6.4 L will probably be based on the 6.0 L block but may be a Ford design." Besides, if that (supposedly) new engine isn't out by now, it's going to make it awful hard to get it into the 2007 model year trucks... > And still many thousands of 6 liter Power Strokes (Navistar VT 365) have > run flawlessly for thousands of miles... > Just like mine, not a drip, drop stutter, or hiccup. As powerful, > reliable and trouble free as anyone could wish for. I'm glad you have such luck with your 6.0 liter and I'm quite sure there are many thousands of other satisfied owners like you. Funny thing those statistics, they will tell you exactly how many lemons there are in a large number, but can't predict if a given engine will fail! My Granddad smoked all his life and enjoyed good health until at age 94 he had a heart attack. Now, I wouldn't use this fact to deny that among smokers cancer causes statistically a much higher early morbidity. > Funny thing those statistics, they will tell you exactly how many lemons > there are in a large number, but can't predict if a given engine will > fail! No matter what the manufacturer.
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