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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / October 2006

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F-150 gear ratios

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Nemisis - 23 Oct 2006 14:05 GMT
I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears.  I have
been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio.  I know I'll
have to change some gearset in the tranny.  Is this a worthwhile swap,
or won't it make that much difference?  How difficult is changing the
speedo gears?

Mark
lugnut - 23 Oct 2006 15:11 GMT
>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears.  I have
>been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio.  I know I'll
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Mark

If my 86 4.9L had the 3.55 gears, I would have never owned
my 90 with the 5.9L.  With the change in speed limits, the
4.9 was simply working full time at 70 mph and had a top end
in 5th gear of 82 mph if I had a couple of miles to wind it
up.  It was considerable better in 4th gear.  It was in
serious need of more gear.  I believe the 3.55 would have
bee pretty close to what was needed for it with 235 tires.
If you have 31 inchers as many folks installed on them, a
3.73 would be more like it.  You will need to change the
speedometer drive gear in the transmission which will take
every bit of 15 minutes once you get hands on the correct
one.  A knowledgeable parts man or even a few web sites can
help you determine the correct part number or tooth count
for an accurate speedometer.  IIRC, the drives usually cost
around $15US.  Is this a worthwhile swap?  If you are
looking for better performance, it it one of the best
upgrades for the cost if you like your truck.  Expect to
spend around $500 parts and labor to change the gears.  A
far better route to me is to look around for a complete
salvage yard axle from another truck.  Many of the V8's had
the 3.55 gears from the factory and you can simply bolt in
the complete axle in a couple of hours.

Lugnut
SnoMan - 23 Oct 2006 16:06 GMT
>>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears.  I have
>>been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio.  I know I'll
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
>Lugnut

Also remember tha you have a OD tranny and even a 3.55 is pretty tall
in OD so do not let the numbers scare you.  I hand a freaind that had
a 86 F150 4x4 with a 300 and a 4speed NP435 granny gear tranny. Were
it not for the deep first and second gears it would have not been able
to get moving with any load with it 3.08 rear axle. Not knocking the
4.9 but it can only do so much and with a 3.55 or 3.73 it would run
like a completely different truck vs current 3.08. Below is a link for
a online axle ratio calculator that will let you see before and after
effects of ratio changes with current or plan tires sizes too. Feel
free to use it whenever you want too.

http://www.snoman.com/HTML/axlecalc_5a.html
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Nemisis - 23 Oct 2006 19:27 GMT
> >>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears.  I have
> >>been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio.  I know I'll
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Thanks for the link.  I have to have this truck moving at least 50 mph
to use OD, and that only on the flat and level.  This being
Pennsylvania, nothing is flat and level.  I have the standard wheels
and tires, 235-15's.  I'm trying to find the factory steel sport wheels
in the yards, but they seem to be pretty hard to come by.

Mark
SnoMan - 23 Oct 2006 22:55 GMT
>Thanks for the link.  I have to have this truck moving at least 50 mph
>to use OD, and that only on the flat and level.  This being
>Pennsylvania, nothing is flat and level.  I have the standard wheels
>and tires, 235-15's.  I'm trying to find the factory steel sport wheels
>in the yards, but they seem to be pretty hard to come by.

Given where you live I would strongly suggest a 3.73 over a 3.55 as
the little bit extra will help where you are at. I have been through
PA and like you said there is not too much that is flat over there.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Nemisis - 24 Oct 2006 13:30 GMT
> >Thanks for the link.  I have to have this truck moving at least 50 mph
> >to use OD, and that only on the flat and level.  This being
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

The factory service manual lists only two ratios for this truck, 3.08
and 3.55.  Is the 3.73 ratio from a different year?  This is a 5-lug
bolt pattern rear.

Mark
SnoMan - 24 Oct 2006 15:34 GMT
>The factory service manual lists only two ratios for this truck, 3.08
>and 3.55.  Is the 3.73 ratio from a different year?  This is a 5-lug
>bolt pattern rear.

What gears you can use/install is determined by the type/style rear
axle that you have not the year is was built or the amout of lugs it
has at wheels. You should have a Ford 8.8 inch rear axle which can at
least be geared as deep as 6.14 to 1 (not what you need) and they make
a 3.08, 3.27, 3.31, 3.55, 3.73, 3.90 ratios just in the 3.x range for
that axle.  It is just a matter of choosing a ratio and matching up
the speedo drive gear on that model. Worst case senerio, if you cannot
get the correct speedo drive gear combo (which is not too likely) you
can have speedo recalibrated as a speedo shop.  You want to buy these
gears in aftermarket (not dealer) with Yukon and Precision being tops
choices for brands to use. A 3.73 would be a good compromise between
power and cruising in the hills there and increase to towing capacity
a noticeable amount if you ever pull anything (both in starting the
load moving and going down the road) If you never play to tow anything
then a 3.55 might suit you a bit better. (if you plan some srious
towing, going to a 3.90 or 4.10 would be in order hence the reason of
the 3.73 as somewhere in the middle and a good compromise)  That truck
should have never shipped with a 3.08 to begin with and should have
had at least a 3.31  anyway as you have found that it lacks a lot at
times with 3.08.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Jeff Strickland - 27 Oct 2006 03:43 GMT
>>>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears.  I have
>>>been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio.  I know I'll
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> http://www.snoman.com/HTML/axlecalc_5a.html
> -----------------

I run the NP435 with 4.10 gears and 32" tires in my Jeep. I never use 1st
gear for anything except pulling stumps out. ;-) Seriously, I never use 1st
on the street, and with 4.22:1 in my 2nd gear, starting out is as easy as
any car I've ever owned. 1st is great for offroading, but in LO range, I
stop rolling before I can finish the shift from 1st to 2nd.
Nemisis - 23 Oct 2006 19:17 GMT
> >I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears.  I have
> >been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio.  I know I'll
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Lugnut

I'm planning on pulling an entire axle out of a yard.  I researched
what swapping gears takes a couple of years ago when I had a 78 Dodge
Magnum, and while do-able, seemed like the long way around.  On the
Magnum I swapped a 2:40 rear for a 2:90 rear and it made a noticeable
difference, but about that time I screwed up the 360 in it and had to
get rid of it.

Thanks!

Mark
Eb - 23 Oct 2006 15:20 GMT
The speedo cable goes into the trans on the drivers side. Remove the
retaining bolt and pull the cable out. On the end of the cable is a
plastic gear held by a C-Clip. Remove the Clip, swap the gear.

The factory gear might have 19 teeth, you can buy a new gear with 20,
21, 22 teeth. Each additional tooth is something like a 4 to 6 mph
decrease on the speedo reading. More teeth slows down the speedo, less
teeth increase the speedo reading.

I had to swap my speedo gear to adjust for a different tire size.

I don't know anything about swap the gears in the differential.

You could put on several sizes smaller tires on the truck. The smaller
tires would require the engine to turn more rpms to achieve the same
previous ground speed. This would simulate having a lower gear ratio,
and let you experience what the difference would be with a lower gear
ratio.

>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears.  I have
>been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio.  I know I'll
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Mark
Nemisis - 23 Oct 2006 19:19 GMT
> The speedo cable goes into the trans on the drivers side. Remove the
> retaining bolt and pull the cable out. On the end of the cable is a
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >
> >Mark

So you're saying I just have to change the gear on the speed sensor,
not the one inside the tranny?  That shouldn't be too hard.

Thanks!

Mark
SnoMan - 23 Oct 2006 22:56 GMT
>So you're saying I just have to change the gear on the speed sensor,
>not the one inside the tranny?  That shouldn't be too hard.

Yes, that should do it.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Eb - 24 Oct 2006 14:51 GMT
Doesn't some 89's thru 91's have Rear ABS with some sort of a sensor
in the rear axle.

Does changing the gear ratios in the rear diff. effect the Rear ABS?
SnoMan - 24 Oct 2006 15:37 GMT
>Does changing the gear ratios in the rear diff. effect the Rear ABS?

It can if speedo is not properly recalibrated on some vehicals.  It
depends on how wheel and vehical speed as monitored because most have
wheel speed sensors and watch speed too to calculate proper wheel
speed for ABS.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
David M - 25 Oct 2006 02:23 GMT
>>Does changing the gear ratios in the rear diff. effect the Rear ABS?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Not in 1989.  The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors.

Signature

David M  (dmacchiarolo)
http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled
T/S 53
sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14  has been up 27 days 9:24

SnoMan - 25 Oct 2006 05:36 GMT
>Not in 1989.  The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors.

Some vehicals used a toner ring for vehical speed but even with that
you still need wheel sensors at each wheel with ABS to compare wheel
speed against refference from "toner" and with each other wheel to
determine which wheel is skiding and which is not.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
aarcuda69062 - 25 Oct 2006 06:02 GMT
> >Not in 1989.  The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

There is no speed sensor at each wheel on an 89 F-150.
                                       ^^^^
SnoMan - 25 Oct 2006 13:07 GMT
>There is no speed sensor at each wheel on an 89 F-150.

I said some vehicals as I did not say exactly what a 89 F150 has..
Some get by with a speedo and one or two front sensors on one or both
front wheels depending on ABS design (4 wheel or 2)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
aarcuda69062 - 26 Oct 2006 01:02 GMT
> >There is no speed sensor at each wheel on an 89 F-150.
>
> I said some vehicals as I did not say exactly what a 89 F150 has..

Do the words "subject line" have any meaning in your addled
little brain?

> Some get by with a speedo and one or two front sensors on one or both
> front wheels depending on ABS design (4 wheel or 2)

Some get by with even less.
SnoMan - 26 Oct 2006 17:46 GMT
>Do the words "subject line" have any meaning in your addled
>little brain?

Brain? You do not even know what one is because you certainly do not
how to use yours.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
David M - 27 Oct 2006 01:25 GMT
>>Do the words "subject line" have any meaning in your addled
>>little brain?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Snoblower, do you deny writing this?

> you have to have more than one speed source for ABS to work duh.....

When will you admit you were wrong?   I already know the answer
to that (never).  

You'd better stick to shoveling sidewalks
rather then posting your wildly inaccurate spewing here.

Signature

David M  (dmacchiarolo)
http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled
T/S 53
sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14  has been up 29 days 8:21

aarcuda69062 - 27 Oct 2006 03:56 GMT
> >Do the words "subject line" have any meaning in your addled
> >little brain?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

you certainly do not how to use yours.

you certainly do not how to use yours.

you certainly do not how to use yours.

you certainly do not how to use yours.

you certainly do not how to use yours.

you certainly do not how to use yours.

you certainly do not how to use yours.

No matter how many times I read that, I still can't imagine what
the f.ck it is supposed to mean.
David M - 25 Oct 2006 10:17 GMT
>>Not in 1989.  The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Snowblower, you are wrong again.  In 1989, as the OP stated the year of
his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed
with a tone ring (not a "toner" ring).  Even my 1998 F150 does
not have wheel sensors, only a tone ring on the ring gear.

Signature

David M  (dmacchiarolo)
http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled
T/S 53
sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14  has been up 27 days 17:15

SnoMan - 25 Oct 2006 13:12 GMT
>Snowblower, you are wrong again.  In 1989, as the OP stated the year of
>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed
>with a tone ring (not a "toner" ring).  Even my 1998 F150 does
>not have wheel sensors, only a tone ring on the ring gear.

Hey David M with issues, you have to have more than one speed source
for ABS to work duh..... How many total sesors you have depends on
whether it is 2wheel or 4 wheel ABS. You realy do not know how ABS
works do you? You just like to try to start something. Knock yourself
out.  
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
lugnut - 25 Oct 2006 14:23 GMT
>>Snowblower, you are wrong again.  In 1989, as the OP stated the year of
>>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>-----------------
>TheSnoMan.com

Not in the Ford system.  Only one sensor to control rear ABS
only.

Lugnut
Roy - 25 Oct 2006 15:27 GMT
>>Snowblower, you are wrong again.  In 1989, as the OP stated the year of
>>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> works do you? You just like to try to start something. Knock yourself
> out.

WTF!!! I:'ve counted 3 times in the past 12 hours you have posted totally
wrong info!!

Why don't you step away from the damn keyboard until you know what the hell
you are talking about?

Here is your new sig, not as profane as the last but just as accurate.

This would look good at your web site as well. I'm sure we can get it added.

> TheWrong AnswerMan.com
LMFAO - 25 Oct 2006 15:56 GMT
> >>Snowblower, you are wrong again.  In 1989, as the OP stated the year of
> >>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> > TheWrong AnswerMan.com

I guess Bloman never heard of RWAL. He should get far far away from the
computer now and NEVER touch another vehicle again. This bubba may get
someone killed one day.
Roy - 25 Oct 2006 17:30 GMT
>> >>Snowblower, you are wrong again.  In 1989, as the OP stated the year of
>> >>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> computer now and NEVER touch another vehicle again. This bubba may get
> someone killed one day.

That is the problem. The latest mis info the idiot posted won't get a person
injured. But some of his posting's have had the potential to do damage.. Of
course some around here don't see it that way.
Matt Macchiarolo - 25 Oct 2006 22:05 GMT
Ford truck 4-wheel ABS uses a three channel system, a tone ring at each
front wheel and a tone ring at the rear ring gear.

FWIW Jeep uses a three-channel system as well but use tone rings at all four
wheels.

>>Snowblower, you are wrong again.  In 1989, as the OP stated the year of
>>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
David M - 26 Oct 2006 09:43 GMT
>>Snowblower, you are wrong again.  In 1989, as the OP stated the year of
>>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Hey David M with issues, you have to have more than one speed source
> for ABS to work duh.....

Wrong again Snoblower.   Ford's RABS works with one sensor, the tone ring
sensor on the ring gear.  Do a search and research it yourself.

Signature

David M  (dmacchiarolo)
http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled
T/S 53
sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14  has been up 28 days 16:43

lugnut - 25 Oct 2006 14:21 GMT
>>Not in 1989.  The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>-----------------
>TheSnoMan.com

That vintage F150 used only rear ABS sensed by a single
sensor in the differential.  It was a relatively crude
system but, worked within it's technology limits.  There
were no wheel sensor of any kind.  This system was used thru
the "96 model year IIRC.

Lugnut
Nemisis - 25 Oct 2006 17:08 GMT
> >Not in 1989.  The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

No wheel sensors on this baby.  The brakes have no electronics
whatsoever at the wheel.  I'm not sure how the anti-lock is supposed to
work, and from the few panic stops I've had to make, it doesn't work
very well.  Plus it usually sets an error code that doesn't clear until
the truck is shut off.

Had a friend at the last job who had a then new 98 Chevy C20 with ABS.
A guy cut into their lane and he hit the brakes.  The anti-lock worked
on one side and not the other and threw them off the road into a tree.
GM bought him a new truck and paid their hospital bills.

Mark
SnoMan - 26 Oct 2006 17:55 GMT
>Had a friend at the last job who had a then new 98 Chevy C20 with ABS.
>A guy cut into their lane and he hit the brakes.  The anti-lock worked
>on one side and not the other and threw them off the road into a tree.
>GM bought him a new truck and paid their hospital bills.

My GM 2000 K3500 has sensors in front wheels (had one go bad under
warranty) and reads speedo for rear. Bad thing about that setup is
sometimes coming down a hill  and stopping if road is bumpy it will
kick in ABS because rear tires are locking up as they bounce over
bumps at a  moderate normal braking rate and then brake pedal goes way
down and braking force is lost. It has happened a few times and nearly
caused a wreck once. GM offered no solution so I try to avoid that
senerio now. That system is overreactive to that but performs well on
ice and with front wheels.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Matt Macchiarolo - 26 Oct 2006 00:17 GMT
No.

> Doesn't some 89's thru 91's have Rear ABS with some sort of a sensor
> in the rear axle.
>
> Does changing the gear ratios in the rear diff. effect the Rear ABS?
Joe - 24 Oct 2006 01:29 GMT
> So you're saying I just have to change the gear on the speed sensor,
> not the one inside the tranny?  That shouldn't be too hard.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark

He's saying that, except you ain't got no speed sensor in 1989.  "Cable" is
the word you're looking for.
Nemisis - 24 Oct 2006 13:34 GMT
> > So you're saying I just have to change the gear on the speed sensor,
> > not the one inside the tranny?  That shouldn't be too hard.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> He's saying that, except you ain't got no speed sensor in 1989.  "Cable" is
> the word you're looking for.

Well, actually it's got both.  I had to replace the speed sensor when I
first got the truck to get the cruise control to work.  This gizmo has
both a cable fitting and an electrical plug.

Mark
Jeff Strickland - 27 Oct 2006 03:36 GMT
You don't have to change anything in the tranny, with the exception of a
very small gear that is used to calibrate the speedo -- and current
technology may make that unnecessary. The speedo gear, if you need one, is
easy to change. If you can change the ring and pinion, the speedo gear will
not be a hurdle at all.

What you need to change is the Ring and Pinion gears (yes, there are two --  
one each).

The gear ratio is determined by dividing the number of teeth on the ring
gear by the number of teeth on the pinion gear. (41 / 10 = 4.10, for
example).

I don't know the specifics of the gear sets that Ford uses, but the more
common ratios used in the ranges you suggested are 3.07 and 3.73. The
numbers aren't as important as the means of arriving at them.

Normally, one would change the gear set in response to getting oversized
tires. Larger tires will alter the gear ratios and move the torque and
horsepower curves to places that make torque and HP distant strangers. One
applies a new gear set to bring the torque and HP curves back to where they
are useful once again. With larger tires and the same gear set, you will
notice that your truck has no power off the line, slows going up a grade on
the freeway, and you frequently must downshift to the next lower gear --  
some report that they downshift so often, they stopped shifting to 5th gear
all together.

>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears.  I have
> been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio.  I know I'll
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Mark
Matt Macchiarolo - 27 Oct 2006 22:30 GMT
That said, the speed sensor  on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring
gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's signal.
Changing tire size, however, would.

Not sure about an 89, tho....

> You don't have to change anything in the tranny, with the exception of a
> very small gear that is used to calibrate the speedo -- and current
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>>
>> Mark
Jeff Strickland - 28 Oct 2006 01:51 GMT
So, the speed sensor is in the diff? I'll need to check my Bronco and get
back to you ...

> That said, the speed sensor  on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring
> gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>>
>>> Mark
Matt Macchiarolo - 29 Oct 2006 19:17 GMT
A definite maybe.

> So, the speed sensor is in the diff? I'll need to check my Bronco and get
> back to you ...
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Mark
Joe - 28 Oct 2006 02:36 GMT
> That said, the speed sensor  on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring
> gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's
> signal. Changing tire size, however, would.
>
> Not sure about an 89, tho....

Don't post when you're not sure.  Disinformation doesn't really help
anybody.
Matt Macchiarolo - 29 Oct 2006 19:16 GMT
Just something for the OP to consider. Stupid bandwidth wasting posting to
prove you're a man doesn't really help anybody either.

>> That said, the speed sensor  on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring
>> gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Don't post when you're not sure.  Disinformation doesn't really help
> anybody.
lugnut - 28 Oct 2006 05:20 GMT
>That said, the speed sensor  on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring
>gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's signal.
>Changing tire size, however, would.
>
>Not sure about an 89, tho....

IIRC, the 87-91 had the speedo in the trans and the ABS in
the diff.  The 92 up sensed both speedo and ABS in the diff
but still had a connection in the trans to sense excess
trans converter slippage (at least in the E4OD's and AODE's)

Lugnut

>> You don't have to change anything in the tranny, with the exception of a
>> very small gear that is used to calibrate the speedo -- and current
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>>>
>>> Mark
 
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