Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / October 2006
F-150 gear ratios
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Nemisis - 23 Oct 2006 14:05 GMT I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears. I have been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio. I know I'll have to change some gearset in the tranny. Is this a worthwhile swap, or won't it make that much difference? How difficult is changing the speedo gears?
Mark
lugnut - 23 Oct 2006 15:11 GMT >I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears. I have >been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio. I know I'll [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Mark If my 86 4.9L had the 3.55 gears, I would have never owned my 90 with the 5.9L. With the change in speed limits, the 4.9 was simply working full time at 70 mph and had a top end in 5th gear of 82 mph if I had a couple of miles to wind it up. It was considerable better in 4th gear. It was in serious need of more gear. I believe the 3.55 would have bee pretty close to what was needed for it with 235 tires. If you have 31 inchers as many folks installed on them, a 3.73 would be more like it. You will need to change the speedometer drive gear in the transmission which will take every bit of 15 minutes once you get hands on the correct one. A knowledgeable parts man or even a few web sites can help you determine the correct part number or tooth count for an accurate speedometer. IIRC, the drives usually cost around $15US. Is this a worthwhile swap? If you are looking for better performance, it it one of the best upgrades for the cost if you like your truck. Expect to spend around $500 parts and labor to change the gears. A far better route to me is to look around for a complete salvage yard axle from another truck. Many of the V8's had the 3.55 gears from the factory and you can simply bolt in the complete axle in a couple of hours.
Lugnut
SnoMan - 23 Oct 2006 16:06 GMT >>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears. I have >>been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio. I know I'll [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Lugnut Also remember tha you have a OD tranny and even a 3.55 is pretty tall in OD so do not let the numbers scare you. I hand a freaind that had a 86 F150 4x4 with a 300 and a 4speed NP435 granny gear tranny. Were it not for the deep first and second gears it would have not been able to get moving with any load with it 3.08 rear axle. Not knocking the 4.9 but it can only do so much and with a 3.55 or 3.73 it would run like a completely different truck vs current 3.08. Below is a link for a online axle ratio calculator that will let you see before and after effects of ratio changes with current or plan tires sizes too. Feel free to use it whenever you want too.
http://www.snoman.com/HTML/axlecalc_5a.html ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Nemisis - 23 Oct 2006 19:27 GMT > >>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears. I have > >>been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio. I know I'll [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Thanks for the link. I have to have this truck moving at least 50 mph to use OD, and that only on the flat and level. This being Pennsylvania, nothing is flat and level. I have the standard wheels and tires, 235-15's. I'm trying to find the factory steel sport wheels in the yards, but they seem to be pretty hard to come by.
Mark
SnoMan - 23 Oct 2006 22:55 GMT >Thanks for the link. I have to have this truck moving at least 50 mph >to use OD, and that only on the flat and level. This being >Pennsylvania, nothing is flat and level. I have the standard wheels >and tires, 235-15's. I'm trying to find the factory steel sport wheels >in the yards, but they seem to be pretty hard to come by. Given where you live I would strongly suggest a 3.73 over a 3.55 as the little bit extra will help where you are at. I have been through PA and like you said there is not too much that is flat over there. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Nemisis - 24 Oct 2006 13:30 GMT > >Thanks for the link. I have to have this truck moving at least 50 mph > >to use OD, and that only on the flat and level. This being [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com The factory service manual lists only two ratios for this truck, 3.08 and 3.55. Is the 3.73 ratio from a different year? This is a 5-lug bolt pattern rear.
Mark
SnoMan - 24 Oct 2006 15:34 GMT >The factory service manual lists only two ratios for this truck, 3.08 >and 3.55. Is the 3.73 ratio from a different year? This is a 5-lug >bolt pattern rear. What gears you can use/install is determined by the type/style rear axle that you have not the year is was built or the amout of lugs it has at wheels. You should have a Ford 8.8 inch rear axle which can at least be geared as deep as 6.14 to 1 (not what you need) and they make a 3.08, 3.27, 3.31, 3.55, 3.73, 3.90 ratios just in the 3.x range for that axle. It is just a matter of choosing a ratio and matching up the speedo drive gear on that model. Worst case senerio, if you cannot get the correct speedo drive gear combo (which is not too likely) you can have speedo recalibrated as a speedo shop. You want to buy these gears in aftermarket (not dealer) with Yukon and Precision being tops choices for brands to use. A 3.73 would be a good compromise between power and cruising in the hills there and increase to towing capacity a noticeable amount if you ever pull anything (both in starting the load moving and going down the road) If you never play to tow anything then a 3.55 might suit you a bit better. (if you plan some srious towing, going to a 3.90 or 4.10 would be in order hence the reason of the 3.73 as somewhere in the middle and a good compromise) That truck should have never shipped with a 3.08 to begin with and should have had at least a 3.31 anyway as you have found that it lacks a lot at times with 3.08. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Jeff Strickland - 27 Oct 2006 03:43 GMT >>>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears. I have >>>been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio. I know I'll [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > http://www.snoman.com/HTML/axlecalc_5a.html > ----------------- I run the NP435 with 4.10 gears and 32" tires in my Jeep. I never use 1st gear for anything except pulling stumps out. ;-) Seriously, I never use 1st on the street, and with 4.22:1 in my 2nd gear, starting out is as easy as any car I've ever owned. 1st is great for offroading, but in LO range, I stop rolling before I can finish the shift from 1st to 2nd.
Nemisis - 23 Oct 2006 19:17 GMT > >I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears. I have > >been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio. I know I'll [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Lugnut I'm planning on pulling an entire axle out of a yard. I researched what swapping gears takes a couple of years ago when I had a 78 Dodge Magnum, and while do-able, seemed like the long way around. On the Magnum I swapped a 2:40 rear for a 2:90 rear and it made a noticeable difference, but about that time I screwed up the 360 in it and had to get rid of it.
Thanks!
Mark
Eb - 23 Oct 2006 15:20 GMT The speedo cable goes into the trans on the drivers side. Remove the retaining bolt and pull the cable out. On the end of the cable is a plastic gear held by a C-Clip. Remove the Clip, swap the gear.
The factory gear might have 19 teeth, you can buy a new gear with 20, 21, 22 teeth. Each additional tooth is something like a 4 to 6 mph decrease on the speedo reading. More teeth slows down the speedo, less teeth increase the speedo reading.
I had to swap my speedo gear to adjust for a different tire size.
I don't know anything about swap the gears in the differential.
You could put on several sizes smaller tires on the truck. The smaller tires would require the engine to turn more rpms to achieve the same previous ground speed. This would simulate having a lower gear ratio, and let you experience what the difference would be with a lower gear ratio.
>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears. I have >been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio. I know I'll [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Mark Nemisis - 23 Oct 2006 19:19 GMT > The speedo cable goes into the trans on the drivers side. Remove the > retaining bolt and pull the cable out. On the end of the cable is a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > >Mark So you're saying I just have to change the gear on the speed sensor, not the one inside the tranny? That shouldn't be too hard.
Thanks!
Mark
SnoMan - 23 Oct 2006 22:56 GMT >So you're saying I just have to change the gear on the speed sensor, >not the one inside the tranny? That shouldn't be too hard. Yes, that should do it. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Eb - 24 Oct 2006 14:51 GMT Doesn't some 89's thru 91's have Rear ABS with some sort of a sensor in the rear axle.
Does changing the gear ratios in the rear diff. effect the Rear ABS?
SnoMan - 24 Oct 2006 15:37 GMT >Does changing the gear ratios in the rear diff. effect the Rear ABS? It can if speedo is not properly recalibrated on some vehicals. It depends on how wheel and vehical speed as monitored because most have wheel speed sensors and watch speed too to calculate proper wheel speed for ABS. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
David M - 25 Oct 2006 02:23 GMT >>Does changing the gear ratios in the rear diff. effect the Rear ABS? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Not in 1989. The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors.
 Signature David M (dmacchiarolo) http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled T/S 53 sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14 has been up 27 days 9:24
SnoMan - 25 Oct 2006 05:36 GMT >Not in 1989. The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors. Some vehicals used a toner ring for vehical speed but even with that you still need wheel sensors at each wheel with ABS to compare wheel speed against refference from "toner" and with each other wheel to determine which wheel is skiding and which is not. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
aarcuda69062 - 25 Oct 2006 06:02 GMT > >Not in 1989. The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com There is no speed sensor at each wheel on an 89 F-150. ^^^^
SnoMan - 25 Oct 2006 13:07 GMT >There is no speed sensor at each wheel on an 89 F-150. I said some vehicals as I did not say exactly what a 89 F150 has.. Some get by with a speedo and one or two front sensors on one or both front wheels depending on ABS design (4 wheel or 2) ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
aarcuda69062 - 26 Oct 2006 01:02 GMT > >There is no speed sensor at each wheel on an 89 F-150. > > I said some vehicals as I did not say exactly what a 89 F150 has.. Do the words "subject line" have any meaning in your addled little brain?
> Some get by with a speedo and one or two front sensors on one or both > front wheels depending on ABS design (4 wheel or 2) Some get by with even less.
SnoMan - 26 Oct 2006 17:46 GMT >Do the words "subject line" have any meaning in your addled >little brain? Brain? You do not even know what one is because you certainly do not how to use yours. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
David M - 27 Oct 2006 01:25 GMT >>Do the words "subject line" have any meaning in your addled >>little brain? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Snoblower, do you deny writing this?
> you have to have more than one speed source for ABS to work duh..... When will you admit you were wrong? I already know the answer to that (never).
You'd better stick to shoveling sidewalks rather then posting your wildly inaccurate spewing here.
 Signature David M (dmacchiarolo) http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled T/S 53 sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14 has been up 29 days 8:21
aarcuda69062 - 27 Oct 2006 03:56 GMT > >Do the words "subject line" have any meaning in your addled > >little brain? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com you certainly do not how to use yours.
you certainly do not how to use yours.
you certainly do not how to use yours.
you certainly do not how to use yours.
you certainly do not how to use yours.
you certainly do not how to use yours.
you certainly do not how to use yours.
No matter how many times I read that, I still can't imagine what the f.ck it is supposed to mean.
David M - 25 Oct 2006 10:17 GMT >>Not in 1989. The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Snowblower, you are wrong again. In 1989, as the OP stated the year of his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed with a tone ring (not a "toner" ring). Even my 1998 F150 does not have wheel sensors, only a tone ring on the ring gear.
 Signature David M (dmacchiarolo) http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled T/S 53 sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14 has been up 27 days 17:15
SnoMan - 25 Oct 2006 13:12 GMT >Snowblower, you are wrong again. In 1989, as the OP stated the year of >his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed >with a tone ring (not a "toner" ring). Even my 1998 F150 does >not have wheel sensors, only a tone ring on the ring gear. Hey David M with issues, you have to have more than one speed source for ABS to work duh..... How many total sesors you have depends on whether it is 2wheel or 4 wheel ABS. You realy do not know how ABS works do you? You just like to try to start something. Knock yourself out. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
lugnut - 25 Oct 2006 14:23 GMT >>Snowblower, you are wrong again. In 1989, as the OP stated the year of >>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >----------------- >TheSnoMan.com Not in the Ford system. Only one sensor to control rear ABS only.
Lugnut
Roy - 25 Oct 2006 15:27 GMT >>Snowblower, you are wrong again. In 1989, as the OP stated the year of >>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > works do you? You just like to try to start something. Knock yourself > out. WTF!!! I:'ve counted 3 times in the past 12 hours you have posted totally wrong info!!
Why don't you step away from the damn keyboard until you know what the hell you are talking about?
Here is your new sig, not as profane as the last but just as accurate.
This would look good at your web site as well. I'm sure we can get it added.
> TheWrong AnswerMan.com LMFAO - 25 Oct 2006 15:56 GMT > >>Snowblower, you are wrong again. In 1989, as the OP stated the year of > >>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > > TheWrong AnswerMan.com I guess Bloman never heard of RWAL. He should get far far away from the computer now and NEVER touch another vehicle again. This bubba may get someone killed one day.
Roy - 25 Oct 2006 17:30 GMT >> >>Snowblower, you are wrong again. In 1989, as the OP stated the year of >> >>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > computer now and NEVER touch another vehicle again. This bubba may get > someone killed one day. That is the problem. The latest mis info the idiot posted won't get a person injured. But some of his posting's have had the potential to do damage.. Of course some around here don't see it that way.
Matt Macchiarolo - 25 Oct 2006 22:05 GMT Ford truck 4-wheel ABS uses a three channel system, a tone ring at each front wheel and a tone ring at the rear ring gear.
FWIW Jeep uses a three-channel system as well but use tone rings at all four wheels.
>>Snowblower, you are wrong again. In 1989, as the OP stated the year of >>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com David M - 26 Oct 2006 09:43 GMT >>Snowblower, you are wrong again. In 1989, as the OP stated the year of >>his truck, the ABS did not measure wheel speeds, only the ring gear speed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hey David M with issues, you have to have more than one speed source > for ABS to work duh..... Wrong again Snoblower. Ford's RABS works with one sensor, the tone ring sensor on the ring gear. Do a search and research it yourself.
 Signature David M (dmacchiarolo) http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled T/S 53 sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14 has been up 28 days 16:43
lugnut - 25 Oct 2006 14:21 GMT >>Not in 1989. The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >----------------- >TheSnoMan.com That vintage F150 used only rear ABS sensed by a single sensor in the differential. It was a relatively crude system but, worked within it's technology limits. There were no wheel sensor of any kind. This system was used thru the "96 model year IIRC.
Lugnut
Nemisis - 25 Oct 2006 17:08 GMT > >Not in 1989. The ABS uses a tone ring on the ring gear, not wheel sensors. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com No wheel sensors on this baby. The brakes have no electronics whatsoever at the wheel. I'm not sure how the anti-lock is supposed to work, and from the few panic stops I've had to make, it doesn't work very well. Plus it usually sets an error code that doesn't clear until the truck is shut off.
Had a friend at the last job who had a then new 98 Chevy C20 with ABS. A guy cut into their lane and he hit the brakes. The anti-lock worked on one side and not the other and threw them off the road into a tree. GM bought him a new truck and paid their hospital bills.
Mark
SnoMan - 26 Oct 2006 17:55 GMT >Had a friend at the last job who had a then new 98 Chevy C20 with ABS. >A guy cut into their lane and he hit the brakes. The anti-lock worked >on one side and not the other and threw them off the road into a tree. >GM bought him a new truck and paid their hospital bills. My GM 2000 K3500 has sensors in front wheels (had one go bad under warranty) and reads speedo for rear. Bad thing about that setup is sometimes coming down a hill and stopping if road is bumpy it will kick in ABS because rear tires are locking up as they bounce over bumps at a moderate normal braking rate and then brake pedal goes way down and braking force is lost. It has happened a few times and nearly caused a wreck once. GM offered no solution so I try to avoid that senerio now. That system is overreactive to that but performs well on ice and with front wheels. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Matt Macchiarolo - 26 Oct 2006 00:17 GMT No.
> Doesn't some 89's thru 91's have Rear ABS with some sort of a sensor > in the rear axle. > > Does changing the gear ratios in the rear diff. effect the Rear ABS? Joe - 24 Oct 2006 01:29 GMT > So you're saying I just have to change the gear on the speed sensor, > not the one inside the tranny? That shouldn't be too hard. > > Thanks! > > Mark He's saying that, except you ain't got no speed sensor in 1989. "Cable" is the word you're looking for.
Nemisis - 24 Oct 2006 13:34 GMT > > So you're saying I just have to change the gear on the speed sensor, > > not the one inside the tranny? That shouldn't be too hard. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > He's saying that, except you ain't got no speed sensor in 1989. "Cable" is > the word you're looking for. Well, actually it's got both. I had to replace the speed sensor when I first got the truck to get the cruise control to work. This gizmo has both a cable fitting and an electrical plug.
Mark
Jeff Strickland - 27 Oct 2006 03:36 GMT You don't have to change anything in the tranny, with the exception of a very small gear that is used to calibrate the speedo -- and current technology may make that unnecessary. The speedo gear, if you need one, is easy to change. If you can change the ring and pinion, the speedo gear will not be a hurdle at all.
What you need to change is the Ring and Pinion gears (yes, there are two -- one each).
The gear ratio is determined by dividing the number of teeth on the ring gear by the number of teeth on the pinion gear. (41 / 10 = 4.10, for example).
I don't know the specifics of the gear sets that Ford uses, but the more common ratios used in the ranges you suggested are 3.07 and 3.73. The numbers aren't as important as the means of arriving at them.
Normally, one would change the gear set in response to getting oversized tires. Larger tires will alter the gear ratios and move the torque and horsepower curves to places that make torque and HP distant strangers. One applies a new gear set to bring the torque and HP curves back to where they are useful once again. With larger tires and the same gear set, you will notice that your truck has no power off the line, slows going up a grade on the freeway, and you frequently must downshift to the next lower gear -- some report that they downshift so often, they stopped shifting to 5th gear all together.
>I have an 89 F-150, 4.9L six, 5-sp manual and 3.05 diff gears. I have > been contemplating changing to the factory 3.55 ratio. I know I'll [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mark Matt Macchiarolo - 27 Oct 2006 22:30 GMT That said, the speed sensor on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's signal. Changing tire size, however, would.
Not sure about an 89, tho....
> You don't have to change anything in the tranny, with the exception of a > very small gear that is used to calibrate the speedo -- and current [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> >> Mark Jeff Strickland - 28 Oct 2006 01:51 GMT So, the speed sensor is in the diff? I'll need to check my Bronco and get back to you ...
> That said, the speed sensor on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring > gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >>> >>> Mark Matt Macchiarolo - 29 Oct 2006 19:17 GMT A definite maybe.
> So, the speed sensor is in the diff? I'll need to check my Bronco and get > back to you ... [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >>>> >>>> Mark Joe - 28 Oct 2006 02:36 GMT > That said, the speed sensor on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring > gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's > signal. Changing tire size, however, would. > > Not sure about an 89, tho.... Don't post when you're not sure. Disinformation doesn't really help anybody.
Matt Macchiarolo - 29 Oct 2006 19:16 GMT Just something for the OP to consider. Stupid bandwidth wasting posting to prove you're a man doesn't really help anybody either.
>> That said, the speed sensor on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring >> gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Don't post when you're not sure. Disinformation doesn't really help > anybody. lugnut - 28 Oct 2006 05:20 GMT >That said, the speed sensor on many Ford trucks is actually at the ring >gear, so changing the R&P would have no effect on the speed sensor's signal. >Changing tire size, however, would. > >Not sure about an 89, tho.... IIRC, the 87-91 had the speedo in the trans and the ABS in the diff. The 92 up sensed both speedo and ABS in the diff but still had a connection in the trans to sense excess trans converter slippage (at least in the E4OD's and AODE's)
Lugnut
>> You don't have to change anything in the tranny, with the exception of a >> very small gear that is used to calibrate the speedo -- and current [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >>> >>> Mark
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