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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / November 2006

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Brake Line Corrosion

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hopeful - 02 Nov 2006 14:34 GMT
The front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed due to corrosion, as in rusting
and the one line was preforated from pitting corrosion.  The truck has
78,500 miles on it and we have mild mid-Atlantic winters.  The truck is not
driven much in snowy  winter.  The lines going to the rear drums look fine
and have been checked by the dealer and a second shop.   The fittings going
into what  appears to be brass blocks actually rusted and lines right at the
fitting was rusted.   Ford has not responded to my questions.   Has anyone
else experienced brake failure due to corrosion of the lines for the front
disc brakes on the F series?
aarcuda69062 - 02 Nov 2006 15:09 GMT
In article
<Dtm2h.6969$Fi1.6546@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,

> The front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed due to corrosion, as in rusting
> and the one line was preforated from pitting corrosion.  The truck has
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> else experienced brake failure due to corrosion of the lines for the front
> disc brakes on the F series?

Newer stuff than 1994 is failing due to corrosion, it's not
limited to Ford vehicles.  I've replaced brake pipes on vehicles
as new as 1999 with about the same mileage as yours.

I think you did pretty good, my bought new and rust proofed 1985
F-150 suffered rotted brake lines when it was a little over 5
years old.
putt@webtv.net - 02 Nov 2006 15:15 GMT
>front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed
> due to corrosion, as in rusting and the
> one line was preforated from pitting
> corrosion.

So, replace them!  No big deal....less than $40 for both front lines.
What do you expect from writing to Ford concerning your 12+yr old
vehicle?

Dave S(Texas)
hopeful - 03 Nov 2006 15:11 GMT
> >front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed
>> due to corrosion, as in rusting and the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Dave S(Texas)
Metal brakelines are not supposed to rust out.  They are supposed to be
formed from stainless steel or marine brass and should last as long as the
engine.   The rubber connector hose is a different story and oddly enough
they looked fine.
C. E. White - 03 Nov 2006 15:53 GMT
>> >front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed
>>> due to corrosion, as in rusting and the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> engine.   The rubber connector hose is a different story and oddly enough
> they looked fine.

I have never had a car that came from the factory with stainless steel brake
lines and certainly never seen one with marine brass brake lines (and making
brake lines from brass would not be a good idea - too great a chance of
metal fatigue). Maybe some high end cars may have stainless brake lines, but
stainless is hard to work with when you have to make bends and is subject to
stress cracking. All of the brake lines I have actually touched are double
wall low carbon steel with a zinc coating to prevent corrosion (other
anti-corrosion coatings include  zinc - aluminum, or copper). This sort of
steel tubing is sometimes referred to as "Bundyweld" or "Bundy double wall"
tubing (see http://www.tiauto.com/bulktubing/double_wall.php ). Some
European cars (Volvo and Audi for sure) use "Cunifer Alloy" (90-10
copper-nickel alloy) for the brake lines, but I have never personally
touched one of these (see
http://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/pdf/a8001.pdf ).

Ed
Scott - 04 Nov 2006 07:21 GMT
>> >front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed
>>> due to corrosion, as in rusting and the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> engine.   The rubber connector hose is a different story and oddly enough
> they looked fine.

I think your name should be OVERLY  OPTIMISTIC
considering your insane idea that Ford may want to pay
for repairs to a 12 year old truck.
Hopeful just doesn't do it.

PS I have never seen stainless or marine brass used in
auto brake lines.
putt@webtv.net - 04 Nov 2006 13:41 GMT
>Metal brakelines are not supposed to
> rust out. They are supposed to be
> formed from stainless steel or marine
> brass and should last as long as the
> engine.

SS/brass??  On what planet?  U have a Ford pick-up, not a Space Shuttle.

Dave S(Texas)
Joe - 04 Nov 2006 20:47 GMT
> >Metal brakelines are not supposed to
>> rust out. They are supposed to be
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> SS/brass??  On what planet?  U have a Ford pick-up, not a Space Shuttle.

Yeah, that came straight from dreamland.  It would be nice if they'd use
stainless, wouldn't it? It does crack sometimes if it's exposed to chlorides
(which it would be), but I'd be willing to take a chance on it.
David M - 04 Nov 2006 14:19 GMT
> Metal brakelines are not supposed to rust out.  They are supposed to be
> formed from stainless steel or marine brass and should last as long as the
> engine.   The rubber connector hose is a different story and oddly enough
> they looked fine.

Most vehicles use plated steel for brake lines, not stainless.  And, it
can most certainly corrode.

Signature

David M  (dmacchiarolo)
http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled
T/S 53
sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14  has been up 37 days 21:20

SnoMan - 07 Nov 2006 15:24 GMT
>> >front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed
>>> due to corrosion, as in rusting and the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>engine.   The rubber connector hose is a different story and oddly enough
>they looked fine.

Stainless costs too much for penny pinching detriot and they do not
want it to last to long anyway and brass is too soft for this. A
simlpe trick that I have used that works well is to spray the brake
lines with gear oil in a old paint spray gun every fall and spring. I
do not have "normal" failure of any metal brake lines. My 89 burbs
lines still look almost like new. Another thing, rust is a galvanitc
reaction of sorts with atmosphere and metal and when you rust proof
the car, anything that is not rust proofed tends to be atacked worse
because a difference of charge or potenail develops between car and
air aggravatted by salt and rust proofing focuses the "discharge" of
the potentail and the rust process that results to unprotected areas.
Back in the 50 they used to put anode lead bars on some cars to
control this process scientifically and that would sacrifice
themselves while saving vehicle. You will not see that today because
all that lead would not be environmental freindly. Also, brake fluid
is glycol based and atracts moisutre so it can be attacked from both
sides of pipe wall sometimes.  
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
David M - 08 Nov 2006 00:48 GMT
>>> >front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed
>>>> due to corrosion, as in rusting and the
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Spraying the outside with gear oil does nothing for the moisture that
is INSIDE, trapped in the brake fluid which was absorbed from the
atmosphere.

And, you need to bone up on your corrosion theory, what you said is
completely incorrect.  Galvanic reations can't occur unless there is an
electrolyte to conduct current... air isn't an electrolyte.

Think--- salt water.

Lead is not a good anode to steel, but zinc is...
what do you think "galvanized" steel is? It ain't coated with lead...  In
fact lead and steel are very close to each other in the galvanic
series, so there would be no reaction nor protection.

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Definitions/galvanic-series.htm

Once again, your spewing proves to be wrong.  As usual,
someone taking your advice is putting their life at risk.

Signature

David M  (dmacchiarolo)
http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled
T/S 53
sled351 Linux 2.4.18-14  has been up 41 days 8:33

C. E. White - 08 Nov 2006 12:39 GMT
> Stainless costs too much for penny pinching detriot and they do not
> want it to last to long anyway and brass is too soft for this.

Actually I suspect you could make brake lines out of stainless steel tubing
for about the same as for the bundyweld tubing. Stainless has a bad habit of
developing stress/corrosion cracks which is a very bad thing in a brake
line.

> lines still look almost like new. Another thing, rust is a galvanitc
> reaction of sorts with atmosphere and metal and when you rust proof
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> themselves while saving vehicle. You will not see that today because
> all that lead would not be environmental freindly.

Lead would not work for this application. If any sort of "bars" were
attached they would have been zinc. Lead bars would have increased the rate
of corrosion. (see
http://www.usace.army.mil/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-2-3400/c-2.pdf )

> Also, brake fluid
> is glycol based and atracts moisutre so it can be attacked from both
> sides of pipe wall sometimes.

And this is why bundyweld tubing is used.

Regards,

Ed White
http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/ - my automotive opinions
http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id7.html - my oil filter comparison
Victor V - 02 Nov 2006 17:12 GMT
.   Has anyone
> else experienced brake failure due to corrosion of the lines for the front
> disc brakes on the F series?

Yup, replaced them when I replaced the rotors. It's a good idea anyway just
to get new rubber. When they fail, and collapse internally, your brakes will
stick and run very hot.
Victor V - 02 Nov 2006 17:20 GMT
> Yup, replaced them when I replaced the rotors. It's a good idea anyway just
> to get new rubber. When they fail, and collapse internally, your brakes will
> stick and run very hot.

One more thing.........while you're at it, I recommend you flush out that
fluid. It's got water in it which destroys brake parts. Two big cans of
Synthetic DOT 3. I used Prestone brand.
Mike H - 02 Nov 2006 22:16 GMT
> The front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed due to corrosion, as in rusting
> and the one line was preforated from pitting corrosion.  The truck has
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> else experienced brake failure due to corrosion of the lines for the front
> disc brakes on the F series?

Brake fluid is Hydroscopic and absorbs water directly out of the air.
So start with checking the brake fluid resevior and making sure the cap
is sealing tightly on the resevior and not allowing air access to it.

Then condensation inside the brake lines can occur and put moisture in
the brake system.

And finally, the flexible brake lines on most cars are of a rubber
material.  The rubber when under water can absorb water into the fluid.

So all of those are ways to get moisture into the brake system causing
them to corrode from the inside out.

If this truck was not yours originally, I'd consider that maybe the
chassis was under water for a short period of time.  Or if you cross
water with it or it was parked in deep snow, that could lead to the
external corrosion.
hopeful - 03 Nov 2006 15:11 GMT
> Brake fluid is Hydroscopic and absorbs water directly out of the air.
> So start with checking the brake fluid resevior and making sure the cap
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> So all of those are ways to get moisture into the brake system causing
> them to corrode from the inside out.
First off the rubber hoses were in pretty good shape for 78000 miles and 12
years.  The interior of the blocks and the lines were in very good shape and
showed no discoloration which is indicative of water in the fluid.  The
fittings and the metal tubing where it enters the fitting corroded, it
rusted.  If it was stainless steel it was off-spec because I have never seen
stainless steel rust like iron.   The metal line right at the fitting had
holes with is typical of galvanic corrosion resulting in pitting.   The
pitting caused the failure.   The rear lines look OK for a 12 years old
vehicle not driven much in snow and the road salts.
Joe - 03 Nov 2006 05:00 GMT
> The front brake lines on my 1994 F150 failed due to corrosion, as in
> rusting and the one line was preforated from pitting corrosion.  The truck
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> questions.   Has anyone else experienced brake failure due to corrosion of
> the lines for the front disc brakes on the F series?

I've seen several Ford trucks with rusted brake lines, but never in the
front.  I think the problem is very common, but your location is unusual.
 
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