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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / December 2006Fan clutch tools
Hello all, I am chasing a squeak/squeal noise that my gut tells me is coming from the fan clutch, but others correctly point out could be from the belt, water pump or tensioner pulley. Dressing the belt did not fix it. Not being able to isolate it, but tiring of listening to it<g>, I am considering removing and inspecting the pulley and if its bearing looks ok, pulling the fan clutch to look for evidence of a leak at its seal. The engine is a 1996 straight six. The fan clutch is threaded, and has a 40 mm nut, so the low-end 4.9L specific tool does not fit. I grabbed the AutoZone generic set, but am a little confused about just what I should do. It might make more sense in daylight, but at night in the parking lot, it was clear that the wrench fit, and that the holder might or might not fit at the same time, and either way, would be prone to breaking loose w/o warning. Is there a smart way to do the job? Some have mentioned using a screwdriver or a strap wrench as a holder. Bill > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Bill Are you sure the fan clutch is retained by a nut? my experience with both a Ford and a Dodge fan clutch has shown that the actual clutch is threaded onto the water pump with the only way to get it off is to turn the clutch off the pump. The threads will be opposite the direction that the pulley normally turns. On my ranger, it took special wrenches, one that fit over the heads of the bolts that hold the pulley on and then one that slip onto some shaft. It was kinda irritating. >> Hello all, >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > wrenches, one that fit over the heads of the bolts that hold the pulley > on and then one that slip onto some shaft. It was kinda irritating. I going to assume he means it's 40mm to fit a wrench, not that there's literally a nut. It's left handed threads on a ranger, isn't it? I don't know if a 300 is like that, I don't have one, but it sure is important to consider which way you're supposed to turn. > "Mike H" <mike8675309@gmail.com> wrote in message ... > > Are you sure the fan clutch is retained by a nut? my experience with > > both a Ford and a Dodge fan clutch has shown that the actual clutch is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > know if a 300 is like that, I don't have one, but it sure is important to > consider which way you're supposed to turn. Probably wrench. Then you need a bigger wrench to put onto the bolts holding the pulley on. There are usually four, and the special ford tool is basically a flat piece of steel with square jaws sized to fit over the heads of the bolts giving you something to turn against. On my ranger it was left hand thread, but depending on belt routing it could go either way, so you basically just turn it the way that's opposite of the way the belt turns the pulley to get it off. (Thus normal pulley turning just makes it tighter). Bill, I don't think I've ever seen a fan clutch squeak. I'd lean towards the idler pulley(s). Take the belt clear off and start the engine. Make sure it's not something else. Then shut it off and turn each item by hand. I'll bet you find a dry bearing in either an idler pulley or the alternator. Also, if you have a spring loaded tensioner, they can squeak on their pivot. A liberal dose of antisieze compound will lube them for a long time. A.I.R. pumps (if so equipped) are bad about squeaking also, they have no lube. As for taking the fan clutch off, it turns the same direction as it operates to remove. Get an air chisel with a blunt bit, put it up against the flats of the hex in the proper direction and give it a short burst. It'll come right off. To re-install just spin it up tight by hand and give it a short burst with the blunt chisel again to set it.  SignatureSteve Barker > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Bill Steve, > Bill, I don't think I've ever seen a fan clutch squeak. I am fairly certain I have seen it, but it wasn't my car and there could have been some other change that fixed the noise. I am also fairly green at fixing cars - I'm a damn good engineer (really<g>), but that does not automatically make me a mechanic. > I'd lean towards > the idler pulley(s). AFAICT, you are in good company. > Take the belt clear off and start the engine. Make > sure it's not something else. Either it's messing with me, or it is worse in cold weather?? Today, I drove the truck to warm it up for an oil change, and didn't hear very much. During a recent cold snap (for Florida), it was loud enough that I thought it might be about to break down. > Then shut it off and turn each item by hand. > I'll bet you find a dry bearing in either an idler pulley or the alternator. Removing the belt is no problem. What will tip me off to a dry bearing? Feel? Sound? How pronounced? > Also, if you have a spring loaded tensioner, they can squeak on their pivot. > A liberal dose of antisieze compound will lube them for a long time. Fair enough. Any suggestions for how to apply it? > A.I.R. > pumps (if so equipped) are bad about squeaking also, they have no lube. There is one, and I admit it looks suspicious. > As > for taking the fan clutch off, it turns the same direction as it operates to > remove. Get an air chisel with a blunt bit, put it up against the flats of > the hex in the proper direction and give it a short burst. It'll come right > off. To re-install just spin it up tight by hand and give it a short burst > with the blunt chisel again to set it. An excuse to buy another toy :) Bill > > Then shut it off and turn each item by hand. >> I'll bet you find a dry bearing in either an idler pulley or the >> alternator. > > Removing the belt is no problem. What will tip me off to a dry bearing? > Feel? Sound? How pronounced? You'll hear and feel it. in the case of the idlers, they may even sound crunchy and wiggle side to side. The plastic ones may have a "choppy" wear to the actual surface where the belt rides. >> Also, if you have a spring loaded tensioner, they can squeak on their >> pivot. A liberal dose of antisieze compound will lube them for a long >> time. > > Fair enough. Any suggestions for how to apply it? Take it off and pull the bolt out of the middle. it is a shoulder bolt, that is what it pivots on. Steve Steve, > You'll hear and feel it. in the case of the idlers, they may even sound > crunchy and wiggle side to side. The plastic ones may have a "choppy" wear > to the actual surface where the belt rides. IIRC, the surface looks ok. I will definitely check the bearing and lube the pivot. >>> Also, if you have a spring loaded tensioner, they can squeak on their >>> pivot. A liberal dose of antisieze compound will lube them for a long [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Take it off and pull the bolt out of the middle. it is a shoulder bolt, > that is what it pivots on. You said "liberal dose" - are there any particular tricks to avoid its getting on the belt? Thanks, Bill Well just don't pour it on. <G>. Take the bolt and brush it on all the way around the entire length, and get the threads also, it'll make it come out easier next time. It won't hurt the belt anyway. It is messy stuff though on your hands. SignatureSteve Barker > You said "liberal dose" - are there any particular tricks to avoid its > getting on the belt? > > Thanks, > > Bill Steve, > Well just don't pour it on. <G>. Just thought I should ask *before* creating the disaster :) > Take the bolt and brush it on all the way > around the entire length, and get the threads also, it'll make it come out > easier next time. It won't hurt the belt anyway. Got it. Thanks! Bill Steve, all, > You'll hear and feel it. in the case of the idlers, they may even sound > crunchy and wiggle side to side. The plastic ones may have a "choppy" wear [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Take it off and pull the bolt out of the middle. it is a shoulder bolt, > that is what it pivots on. I had some time this evening, and removed the belt. The good news is the A/C compressor feels fine, at least in the disengaged state. Not sure about the air pump. I felt some intermittent resistance, but it might have been the innerds. What should it feel like as I turn it? I probably should remove the fan shroud to make room for turning the water pump. There was no obvious trouble, but it didn't get a fair test. Looking at it, it is just a matter of time. The idler pulley feels suspicious; crunchy is a good word for it. I stopped by AutoZone to get the $17 replacement I saw last week. Tonight I hear they don't have it (different guy). To his credit, he showed me a picture of two parts, depending on whether the A/C was factory or dealer installed. He seemed to feel I should know that, and wasn't catching on that I have owned the truck for all of six weeks of its 10+ year life. Anyway, one of the parts (I forget which A/C option) looks like the pulley in the truck. The $17 gizmo was metal, rounded on the front (probably helpful in changing the belt), looked like a genuine improvement (the engineer speaking), and the first salesman seemed credible in his response of "this is what they use now". Tonight's offering is pretty clearly the identical replacement, but it goes for $30, making me think I might just replace the entire tensioner. Any ideas? I will of course try to find the other salesman to get his reaction, and to look at the part again, as well as search a few web sites. If any of you have experience with the rounded metal replacement, please let me know. Bill Steve, all, > The idler pulley feels suspicious; crunchy is a good word for it. I > stopped by AutoZone to get the $17 replacement I saw last week. Tonight [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > sites. If any of you have experience with the rounded metal > replacement, please let me know. A little more info: I spoke with the first salesman, who recalled the conversation and verified that they have the part. He tells me the second guy missed it because it was listed as an alternate part number, and again assures me that it will work. Sounds worth a try to me unless any of you have horror stories to tell. Bill The fan clutch should be at the bottom of the list of potential noise makers. The belt, and the waterpump itself should be at the top. The fan clutch's nut is usually a reverse thread -- lefty tighie, righty loosie -- and can be loosened by holding the body of the clutch stationary and turning the nut with a crescent wrench. The tightening torque is in the range of inch pounds, or a low number of foot pounds. Since the nut tightens in the direction of engine rotation, the nut is not going to spin off ... > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Bill Jeff, > The fan clutch should be at the bottom of the list of potential noise > makers. The belt, and the waterpump itself should be at the top. I thought of the clutch mostly because the noise seems to get worse with engine speed changes. It also is either intermittent, and/or worsens in cooler weather. Replacing the water pump is certainly on my list of things to do, though I would not mind doing another couple of small jobs first. As with most weekends, this past one got away from me, so I did not have a good opportunity to remove the belt and check the accessories. Toward the water pump, is there a correct way to drain and recover coolant? Removing the cap and opening the drain cock results in a flood of various splash guards and then of my garage floor - there is no catching it all. The coolant looks as though it could do with another flush, so I doubt I will reuse it, but it would be nice to learn how to capture it for the future, and to avoid a cleanup step. I also worry about my or a neighbor's (harder to prevent) dog getting to it before I do. > The fan clutch's nut is usually a reverse thread -- lefty tighie, righty > loosie -- The fan shroud says it is a right handed thread. > and can be loosened by holding the body of the clutch > stationary and turning the nut with a crescent wrench. Do you mean hold the water pump pulley? On the clutch, there is either going to be a part that is fixed to the nut, or one that slips relative to it, right??? Apologies if I'm missing something. I'm still sorting out what to do, with what tools, etc. > The tightening > torque is in the range of inch pounds, or a low number of foot pounds. > Since the nut tightens in the direction of engine rotation, the nut is > not going to spin off ... Sounds good. Bill > Jeff, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > about my or a neighbor's (harder to prevent) dog getting to it before I > do. I don't think the engine cares how you drain the coolant, but the environment certainly has its preferences. Drain to keep the environment happy and you'll be okay. If you drain onto the ground and keep a steady supply of water running to dilute the coolant, then the dog will be okay. We've all heard horror stories of dogs drinking coolant, but coolant does not attract the dog as much as the water source attracts dogs. The trouble is that the water source is polluted, and the pollution is hazardous. Dogs are not thinking, "cool, coolant to drink," when they lap up water from the gutter, or standing in pools. I do not advocate polluting ground water, and if everyone did it, the pollution would be significant indeed. >> The fan clutch's nut is usually a reverse thread -- lefty tighie, righty >> loosie -- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > it, right??? Apologies if I'm missing something. I'm still sorting out > what to do, with what tools, etc. Yes, hold the pulley. Whatever turns with the nut has to be held stationary so the nut can come off. > > The tightening >> torque is in the range of inch pounds, or a low number of foot pounds. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bill Jeff, > I don't think the engine cares how you drain the coolant, but the > environment certainly has its preferences. Drain to keep the environment [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > thinking, "cool, coolant to drink," when they lap up water from the > gutter, or standing in pools. My dog and "think" don't really belong in the same sentence. Of course, I can say that - nobody else can :) > I do not advocate polluting ground water, > and if everyone did it, the pollution would be significant indeed. Agreed; I fully intend to capture and dispose of it properly. My real question is whether there is a way to attach a hose such that the coolant goes where I want rather than everywhere but the container intended to catch it. Then I could keep it clean for reuse (not this time<g>), and skip the cleanup step, protecting animals from themselves along the way. Thanks, Bill > Jeff, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > catch it. Then I could keep it clean for reuse (not this time<g>), and > skip the cleanup step, protecting animals from themselves along the way. No, draining coolant is probably the messiest of jobs that one can attempt at home. I can't think of any method that made catching coolant an error free procedure. I suppose the smallest possible hole -- the petcock on the bottom of the radiator -- should produce the smallest possible spill, but I find this to be located in a position that does not allow a direct stream into the catch pan. My dog has never drank coolant. None of my neighbor's dogs has ever drank coolant. I do not know of any person that has a dog that drank coolant. Admittedly, my sample pool is very small, but the real danger of any given dog drinking coolant is an even smaller sample. Jeff, > No, draining coolant is probably the messiest of jobs that one can > attempt at home. I can't think of any method that made catching coolant > an error free procedure. I suppose the smallest possible hole -- the > petcock on the bottom of the radiator -- should produce the smallest > possible spill, but I find this to be located in a position that does > not allow a direct stream into the catch pan. It seems like there should be a better way. However, your mentioning the petcock "at the bottom" gives me one last ray of hope. Maybe there is a more forgiving drain that I missed; it is certainly worth a look. > My dog has never drank coolant. None of my neighbor's dogs has ever > drank coolant. I do not know of any person that has a dog that drank > coolant. Admittedly, my sample pool is very small, but the real danger > of any given dog drinking coolant is an even smaller sample. Fair enough, but any risk of my dog doing it is unacceptable. Not having the spill in the first place seems the simplest fix. Thanks, Bill .. > Fair enough, but any risk of my dog doing it is unacceptable. Not > having the spill in the first place seems the simplest fix. A wide neck funnel placed under the petcock, or pick up some of those anti-spill snake like things you can wrap around a spill area and they'll soak everythign up. You could make the same thing from a big bag of floor dry material. |
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