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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / December 2006

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farm grade diesel

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gus@444.nnet - 24 Dec 2006 13:10 GMT
anyone out there have any good or bad luck running the "off road" red
diesel in there  power stroke?

Thanks
M
SnoMan - 24 Dec 2006 14:02 GMT
>anyone out there have any good or bad luck running the "off road" red
>diesel in there  power stroke?
>
>Thanks
>M
Same fuel different dye and it also "glows" under a black light. If
you are ever unlucky enough to get caught using un-road taxed fuel on
the "road"  you will wish you had not tried to save a few bucks using.
BTW #2 heating oil and farm diesel is the exact same bulk stuff except
for brand additives. (both are not road taxed)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Steve Barker LT - 24 Dec 2006 18:05 GMT
It's not the same fuel.  It's high sulphur.  But works fine if you like a
$10,000 fine.  <G>

Signature

Steve Barker

>>anyone out there have any good or bad luck running the "off road" red
>>diesel in there  power stroke?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
SnoMan - 25 Dec 2006 04:37 GMT
>It's not the same fuel.  It's high sulphur.

Not anymore, ALL diesel/fuel oil is going to low sulpher as stocks are
depleted.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Steve Barker LT - 25 Dec 2006 04:52 GMT
Better check again.

Signature

Steve Barker

>>It's not the same fuel.  It's high sulphur.
>
> Not anymore, ALL diesel/fuel oil is going to low sulpher as stocks are
> depleted.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
SnoMan - 25 Dec 2006 04:59 GMT
>Better check again.

No need to, I heat with oil here and after a fill up with fuel this
fall my furnace definately smells different when the wind is right. No
real sulpher smell anymore. My supplier told me to that ALL fuel  is
going to it and they are a big distributor. He also told me that
places even dye road diesel at sub stations delivery nodes to sell as
heating oil without tax so they no longer have to store two "kinds" of
fuel which lowers overhead at refinery and substations. Dyed on
demand.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Rowbotth - 25 Dec 2006 15:52 GMT
> Better check again.

Farm engines are under exactly the same pressure as highway tractors to
reduce sulphur emissions, and are built to the same tolerances.  The
only difference between farm grade diesel and the rest of the stuff is
the dye in the farm diesel - and there may be a minor difference in the
amount of tax collected.

HR.
Tom  J - 25 Dec 2006 16:16 GMT
>> Better check again.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> stuff is the dye in the farm diesel - and there may be a minor
> difference in the amount of tax collected.

There is a big difference in the tax collected - that's the reason
it's red. There is no road tax collected, that's the reason you'll pay
a minumum $12,000 fine if caught with the red diesel in a vehicle on
the highway.

Is it worth the risk!!!! Do all your neighbors like you or do some
hate you????

Tom J
abusereporter1@mail.zgnews.com - 26 Dec 2006 23:22 GMT
>>> Better check again.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>a minumum $12,000 fine if caught with the red diesel in a vehicle on
>the highway.

Where did you get the "minimum $12,000" figure?  I can't find a source
for a fine that large.

However, see http://www.irs.gov/irm/part20/ch01s19.html, a portion of
the "Internal Revenue Manual (IRM)".  I quote below from that IRS
document.

Begin quote:

IRS=>20.1.10.15.1.1  (01-01-2006)
IRS=>Improper Sale of Dyed Fuel
IRS=>
IRS=>   1. The penalty is imposed if any dyed fuel is sold or held for
IRS=>sale by any person for any use that such person knows or has
IRS=>reason to know is not a nontaxable use of such fuel.
IRS=>   2. "Nontaxable use" has the meaning given to the term by IRC
IRS=>section 4082(b) , Nontaxable use.
IRS=>
IRS=>20.1.10.15.1.2  (01-01-2006)
IRS=>Improper Use of Dyed Fuel
IRS=>
IRS=>   1. The penalty is imposed if any dyed fuel is held for use or
IRS=>used by any person for a use other than a nontaxable use and such
IRS=>person knew, or had reason to know, that such fuel was so dyed.
IRS=>
IRS=>20.1.10.15.1.3  (01-01-2006)
IRS=>Willful Alteration of Dye Concentration
IRS=>
IRS=>   1. The penalty is imposed if any person willfully alters, or
IRS=>attempts to alter, the strength or composition of any dye or
IRS=>marking done pursuant to IRC section 4082 in any dyed fuel.
IRS=>
IRS=>...
IRS=>
IRS=>20.1.10.15.3  (01-01-2006)
IRS=>Penalty Computation
IRS=>
IRS=>   1. For the first violation, the amount of the penalty on each
IRS=>act is the greater of—
IRS=>         1. $1,000, or
IRS=>         2. $10 for each gallon of the dyed fuel involved.
IRS=>
IRS=>   2. For additional violations, the amount in (1)(a) is
IRS=>determined by multiplying $1,000 times the number of prior
IRS=>penalties imposed by IRC 6715 on such person (or a related person
IRS=>or any predecessor of such person or related person).
IRS=>         1. For example, if 50 gallons of dyed fuel is involved
IRS=>in a person’s first violation, the penalty would be $1,000
IRS=>because that amount is greater than 50 X $10. If 150 gallons of
IRS=>dyed fuel is involved in that person’s second violation, the
IRS=>penalty would be $2,000 because that amount ($1,000 X 2
IRS=>violations) is greater than 150 X $10.

End quote.

As I read the above, the penalty imposed by the IRS on a diesel pickup
found to be burning dyed (untaxed) fuel is $1,000 for a first offense,
the minimum fine, unless the pickup's tank capacity exceeds 100
gallons.  Additional fines may be imposed by state enforcers.  The
penalty is nowhere near the $12,000 figure you cite unless the
violations involve lots of gallons, or the offender repeatedly gets
caught and fined.

Still, one would need to burn a lot of untaxed fuel to save enough to
cover a single $1,000 fine.

>Tom J

Bob
Tom  J - 26 Dec 2006 23:57 GMT
>> There is a big difference in the tax collected - that's the reason
>> it's red. There is no road tax collected, that's the reason you'll
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> source
> for a fine that large.

The case I know about was in GA and the fines for the 1st time caught
was $12,000, including Federal & State fines.  This "farmer" installed
a tank on his "farm" and ran all his vehicles out of that tank and no
farm equipment was ever envolved. The fine was on all the fuel he
purchased before being caught.  There was probation on top of the fine
but I don't remember for how long.

Tom J
Yabahoobs - 29 Dec 2006 23:37 GMT
Wow that's crazy...

When I worked for a very fancy shmancy golf course in my area, we
always filled up our powerstroke dump truck with red-dyed diesel...same
as what we put in our J. Deere tractors...

The amount of times I drove that truck around to get stuff from
vendors...Man I coulda fined my boss straight outta his office.  Guess
I was lucky on the Jersey roads.
Spdloader - 24 Dec 2006 14:09 GMT
I've probably run 1000 gallons of it through my '99 7.3 in the last 7 years
or so, with no noticeable difference or problems whatsoever.

Spdloader

> anyone out there have any good or bad luck running the "off road" red
> diesel in there  power stroke?
>
> Thanks
> M
Matt Macchiarolo - 31 Dec 2006 19:43 GMT
fwd'd to reportfraud@irs.gov

Just kidding!!

> I've probably run 1000 gallons of it through my '99 7.3 in the last 7
> years or so, with no noticeable difference or problems whatsoever.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> Thanks
>> M
Lint Radley - 30 Dec 2006 06:07 GMT
Fair warning - it's considered tax evasion, not just an automotive
violation. Keep that in mind. Big fines if caught!

> anyone out there have any good or bad luck running the "off road" red
> diesel in there  power stroke?
>
> Thanks
> M

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