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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / January 2007Sport Trac Towing/Landing boat from Ramp
I have an 04 Sport Trac XLT with 4.10 axles, and the 4.0 liter V6 motor. I don't think the truck has a limited slip differential, and I have only 2WD. The truck is rated to tow 5,600+/- lbs. My boat, a 21' cuddy weighs about 2,000, plus 450 motor, plus the trailer, plus fuel. I guess I'm towing around 4,000 lbs, or a bit more. Is my truck up to the task? I'm paying $300 for slip rent and would like to start towing the boat, but I don't know if I need to start looking looking for a new truck, as well as a new trailer. I'm in Bradenton FL and most ramps are grooved concrete and seem to be in good shape, but I've never towed a boat, so I don't know what good shape is... please help! >I have an 04 Sport Trac XLT with 4.10 axles, and the 4.0 liter V6 > motor. I don't think the truck has a limited slip differential, and I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > please help! Eric, Yes your Sport Trac can tow the boat with the approved reciever hitch. For a boat that big you need a class 3 or larger hitch. Take a look here to learn a thing or two- http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/the_classes.htm . As for the boat ramps, most are covered in algae, and are extremely slippery. You dont want to be on one that has a very steep incline, or you wont get off. I mean that with or without limited slip rearend. Make sure you have a decent amount of meat on your tires as well. Now as to your limited slip or open differential question. I am going to say that more than likely you will have an open differential (no limited slip) however, you can have a truck shop install a reputable locker in your rear diff. for probably about $600. Just curious have you ever taken off on wet pavement and one tire spun and the other didnt? If one spun and the other didnt, then its open. If they both got traction, then its got limited slip. The easier thing to do is look at your axle code on your door plate. I think the abbreviation is AXL on the door plate. You are looking for a two digit alphanumeric number. If it says R7 you have a limited slip differential, but if it says 97 then its a regular 8.8" open differential. I live in Kansas right now, but probably moving to the Reno area next summer, and I have been looking at lockers for my rearend due to not having traction in the snow and rain. I have the 8.8" open diff as well. Hope this helps.. Ford Tech Florida boat ramps are the absolute pits. The idiots that build them think they should be as steep as the skyway bridge's main span. With out a limited slip he's going to have serious issues getting the rig out of the water. The ramps are often slimy as an ambulance chasing lawyer, and they have a bad habit of ending a bit shorter than they should. But then some of that is caused by the anal retentive types who are too damn lazy to crank their boats up on their trailers, so they "power" up with the engine, all the while the prop wash is washing the dirt out form under the end of the ramp till eventually the end collapses. Before you give serious consideration to this I suggest you spend some time at the ramps you plan to use and watch the show, its often times more fun a barrel of monkeys to watch some of the clowns trying to launch and recover their vessels. Whitelightning >Florida boat ramps are the absolute pits. The idiots that build them think >they should be as steep as the skyway bridge's main span. With out a limited >slip he's going to have serious issues getting the rig out of the water. You should see some Ohio, Kentucky and Tennesse boat ramps. Not only are they steep but some are long and steep too. I have haul many boat out ramps over the years and some were unbeleiveable steep and lack of posi was never a deal killer for me but so seem to think it is a must have. The most important part is power and gearing because starting a 5 or 6 K load on a level verse on a steep ramp is a completely different matter.Personally I think you 4.0 is a bit light for 4 K if ramp is steep even with 4.10 because 4.10's is not deep with stock 31 or 32 inch tires and a 4.0 in that SUV. Pickups tend to be light in rear and sometimes a few hundred pounds of ballest next to tall gate can help if traction os limted n a slick ramp. I used to carry a few sand bads with me and if ramp was greasy I would spread a bit of sand on the slime and drive right out or you can use the burn your way out that some seem to like. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com The most important part is power and gearing because starting a > 5 or 6 K load on a level verse on a steep ramp is a completely > different matter.Personally I think you 4.0 is a bit light for 4 K if > ramp is steep even with 4.10 because 4.10's is not deep with stock 31 > or 32 inch tires and a 4.0 in that SUV. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com SnoMan, I am getting tired of your ranting and raving about gear ratio being the most important factor when considering pulling a load. It is important, that's why I mentioned him checking his gear ratio to make sure it is low geared. But when you talk about pulling a load or even just driving in slick conditions then limited slip or a locker rearend is just as important as gear ratio. If the truck says that it is capable of pulling a load that big, then it SHOULD already be equipped with a low enough gear ratio to do the job, and all the rest of the drive train has been spec'ed out to do what the rearend can handle. The reason I talked bout the L/S or locker rear diff, is cause if he hits a really slick spot and looses traction with a boat on the back, and no locker to help pick up the power on the other wheel, he could very well end up losing his whole rig in the water. I have seen it happen, it aint purty.. The other thing is that if you dont have a locker, and you sit there spinning and spinning that one tire, it is very easy to burn up a differential that way. Atleast with a locker you would have both wheels spinning, or NONE at all.. SO, lets see if we can widen your tunnel vision for gear ratios, and see if we can make you a better all around tech.. Ford Tech > The most important part is power and gearing because starting a >> 5 or 6 K load on a level verse on a steep ramp is a completely [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > if we can widen your tunnel vision for gear ratios, and see if we can make > you a better all around tech.. Hey!! Lighten up! The idiot is having a banner week end. Thus far he has screwed up at the chevy truck group, the dodge truck group and now here. The dodge group has a list of his top 10 wrong info's going around. > Ford Tech >Hey!! Lighten up! The idiot is having a banner week end. Yes you are Roy, your certainly are. Anything to get your fix when you do not understand the dynamics involved. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>Hey!! Lighten up! The idiot is having a banner week end. > > Yes you are Roy, your certainly are. Anything to get your fix when you > do not understand the dynamics involved. The dynamic I don't understand is how you can post so much and say so little that is correct. Care to respond to the knock sensor on the V10? > ----------------- > TheWrongAnswerMan.com >The dynamic I don't understand is how you can post so much and say so little >that is correct. I guess it is because of your inabilty to understand much more than a on button or how to turn a key. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>The dynamic I don't understand is how you can post so much and say so >>little >>that is correct. > I guess it is because of your inabilty to understand much more than a > on button or how to turn a key. How about you answer the question about the knock sensor on the V10. What I do understand is that you are a fountain of mis-information and nothing more.. > TheWrongAnswerMan.com >How about you answer the question about the knock sensor on the V10. >What I do understand is that you are a fountain of mis-information and >nothing more.. Roy when it comes to lack of reason and understanding you are king. You also beleive that 87 octane is the best possible fuel for a modern engine. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>How about you answer the question about the knock sensor on the V10. >>What I do understand is that you are a fountain of mis-information and >>nothing more.. > > Roy when it comes to lack of reason and understanding you are king. As you are King when it come to wrong answer's. > You also beleive that 87 octane is the best possible fuel for a modern > engine. That is kinda stupid as I use diesel in one and 93 octane in another. Now seeing as your paying attention, explain you answer regarding the V10 sensor or are you going to contiue to duck and avoid > ----------------- > TheWrongAnswerMan.com Would I then be better suited to get a 4x4 version? If I had a 4.0 V6 Explorer with 4x4, would I then have no problem??? I want to make sure I end up with a vehicle that will give me no problems at the ramp. The Explorer has the same tow rating as the Sport Trac. So, a total of 4,000-4,500 lbs of boat, trailer, fuel, motor, etc with a 5,700 lb capacity with 4x4 is okay?? Eric > Would I then be better suited to get a 4x4 version? If I had a 4.0 V6 > Explorer with 4x4, would I then have no problem??? I want to make [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > capacity with 4x4 is okay?? > Eric If you lived north where 4X4 would be used more than moving the boat I'd say yes. But like you say the ramps in most of FL are in good shape I don't see the need. A limited slip or whatever you choose to call it is a must imho, that and a tow hook on the front in case things go south in a hurry. I guess I follow the "it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it" mantra. > Would I then be better suited to get a 4x4 version? If I had a 4.0 V6 > Explorer with 4x4, would I then have no problem??? I want to make [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Eric And Eric don't listen to that ignorant SNOW BLOWER, an open differential sends all of it's power to the axel with the least resistance (read: the wheel that is spinning, not gripping) regardless of the gear ratio. Limited slip is a no-brainer, Get it with or without 4X4 regardless of your gear ratio. A limited slip rear differential will often perform off road, better than a peg-leg (open differential front and rear) 4X4. Straddle an open ditch at an angle with an open differential 2X4 and see why it is inferior to a limited slip, regardless of gear ratio, it will sit with one tire on the ground doing nothing, with no power to it, while the tire hanging (resistance free) in the air over the ditch gets all the power, You go nowhere. A peg-leg 4X4 will do the same thing with one tire front and rear hanging over the ditch. A 2X4 with a limited slip rear differential will not be stuck in this situation. >SnoMan, >I am getting tired of your ranting and raving about gear ratio being the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >spinning, or NONE at all.. SO, lets see if we can widen your tunnel vision >for gear ratios, and see if we can make you a better all around tech.. Yes widen your vision. YOu place far to much faith on factory tow rating and Ford is particulalry bad about it with some models greatly over rating them. There is no federal guide lines or standards for tow rating (unlike crash, emission and MPG) so Detriot is free to pad it anyway they want to help boost sales. It is not just Ford either. I have a 2000 K3500 and it has the same tow rating as a new LD 1/2 truck does in some configurations which is pure BS to even suggest that its lighter chassis, suspension, axles, tires and brakes is just as safe and capable as my "old" 3500 is. You are free to beleive the moto "In Detroit We Trust" when it come to towing but I do not as I have been at this game for over 35 years now. Also there is a lot of misconception about standard and LSD's A standard diff can onlt send same ampout of axle torque to each wheel, no more or less. THere is no one wheel drive. Also when you talk axle ratios, when pulling hard driveshaft torque twists axle in shassi and lightens the tire load on RR tire when going forward (Newton law, for avery action there is a equal and opposite retaction) which is the reason it always breaks loose first. Deeper gears have less wrap up for same tractive effort level than taller one. But there are those that think that there is this magis force that hold things in place so that chassis torque and axle ratios have no effect on traction of pulling power. When you use a pry bar to moved something, do you use the longer one that gives you best advantage over the load or the shorter pne that rquire more effort on your part? (likely the shorter one) Same deal with axle ratios. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com It is not just Ford either. I > have a 2000 K3500 and it has the same tow rating as a new LD 1/2 > truck does in some configurations which is pure BS to even suggest > that its lighter chassis, suspension, axles, tires and brakes is just > as safe and capable as my "old" 3500 is. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Ok, so here is the real facts. The reason some of the new 1/2 ton p/u have the same towing capacity as some of the older and larger 3/4-1 ton p/u, is due to increased rigidity in frame design as well as increased output from the power plants. If you were to look at the engineering specs between the 1/2 ton and 1 ton you will see the new 1/2 tons have tube frames now and not the old c-channel frames. This almost doubles their strength, and they have improved on the actual strength of the steel too. Here you speak of a Chevy? Well dont start comparing Chevy and Ford because they are two different companies and use two different standards for building their trucks. The last Chevy that I owned was over 20yr old. Although after seeing the new Chevy Silverado, if I hear anything good about the Duramax, I might buy one, but more than likely it will be a FORD. So you are comparing apples to oranges. Yes the Sport Trac does have a decent tow rating, and YES it will pull a boat that size. I have seen many people doing it, this fella here wouldnt be the first. As for how easily its doing it, well it must not be too bad, casue alot of folks here in KS are doing it just fine. I bet its a bit doggy, but I can tow 3500lbs just fine with my 2000 Ranger 3.0L w/5spd. I also have 245/75/16 tires and a 4.10 diff from the factory. No problems here. I also pulled a Dodge 1/2 ton extended cab p/u down the highway on a tow dolley before, and it did it just fine. So if I can pull 3500lbs comfortably with my Ranger, I see no problems with someone pulling a boat that weighs about that much with a larger powerplant. I only told him to check into the L/S rear diff because he was planning on pulling this thing out of the water on a boat ramp, and I am sure he could use the extra traction the L/S would afford him. Ford Tech (I stick with what I know for FACTS, not speculation) >Ok, so here is the real facts. The reason some of the new 1/2 ton p/u have >the same towing capacity as some of the older and larger 3/4-1 ton p/u, is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the old c-channel frames. This almost doubles their strength, and they have >improved on the actual strength of the steel too. Pure BS. It is all about sales hype but people such as you want to believe ANYTHING detriot sells you. The frame are not as thick or strong as they were 30 years ago when 1/2 and 3/4 tons shared the same frames. New truck also have LESS spring in them than 10 years ago to make them ride softer to sell them for car replacements. My 3500 has 5 mail leafs and a booster in rear vs 2 leafs and a booster on your 1/2 ton that you claim is so great. (do not try to give me this impovered spring material BS either because it is the same as are the leaf sizes) It also has 10 ply tires and massive brakes verse lighter tires and and brakes on a 1/2 ton. I have dead weight towed 13K with no stabilty issues at all and better that you 1/2 ton would with 7000 lbs on a dead weight. It takes chassis and tires and suspension to handle serious weight in any senerio not the stroke of a pen. Take your pick you modern 1/2 ton is either greatly over rated or my 3500 is greatly under rated. ALso on you HP claims, this is another line of BS because though it looks impressive on paper the GM 5.3 lacks power below 3000 RPM where most towing is done. The ford 5.4 also lacks lower RPM torque because they both lack displacement. You do not tow at 5000RPM (maybe you do) but at a lower RPM. A simple rule of thumb here, if your SUV struggles to hold OD empty on a grade it will suck towing a heavy load and I do not consider it to be SOP to have to down shift to second on interstate hills but many do now because this is want detriot has taught you to accept. A old 69 Chevy, Oldsmobile or Pontiac family station wagon would out tow you modern 1/2 ton SUV with easy. If detriot would stop trying to built car truck and put the spring back in them and gear them deeper so that they have a real 4 speed tranny (not a 3 speed with OD that wpulls sometime) they could build a decent TV but this is not likely anytime soon. Put a 4.56 or deeper rear axle with better spring behind a OD tranny if a half ton and it would likely live up to its rating but if you follow it blindly you will be very disapointed. See part of the reason it is like this too is because if the light gas truck were geared and built correctly to tow properly, the marketablity of high dollar diesels would falter. It is all a game that you have clearly fallen for. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>Ok, so here is the real facts. The reason some of the new 1/2 ton p/u have >>the same towing capacity as some of the older and larger 3/4-1 ton p/u, is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > strong as they were 30 years ago when 1/2 and 3/4 tons shared the same > frames. This is NOT BS.. If you take a pipe or dual C channel welded together in the middle, and try to bend it, how easy is it? Take that same wall thickness in C channel steel and bend it, it takes about 1/2-3/4 the resistance as the pipe and almost twice the resistance to bend the dual C channel!! I dont buy Detroits hype, I worked in Detroit, and have met with the designers for FORD!!! > New truck also have LESS spring in them than 10 years ago to > make them ride softer to sell them for car replacements. The reason for this is that people have requested that trucks ride smoother, and have more creature comforts like cars do.. So that is customer driven. > My 3500 has 5 mail leafs and a booster in rear vs 2 leafs and a booster on > your 1/2 > ton that you claim is so great. Ok yes your 3500 ONE ton p/u is going to have more springs that a 1/2 ton.. You are comparing APPLES AND ORANGES!! Compare a 3500 from 20yrs ago to a 3500 from today!! And talk FORD, this is after a FORD forum, nobody cares about your freakin POS Chevy.. This is a FORD forum. > (do not try to give me this impovered > spring material BS either because it is the same as are the leaf > sizes) Ok So you are telling me that over the past 30yrs there have not been improvements in the manufacturing of steel, and it isnt stronger now that it was 30yrs ago? You need to wake up man, the process for making steel has changed and gotten better over the years. Steel these days is much stronger than it was back then. > It also has 10 ply tires and massive brakes verse lighter tires > and and brakes on a 1/2 ton. Ok again apples and oranges, however I have MYSELF have 10ply tires on my RANGER!! LT245/75R16 Firestone Wilderness AT's Tell me that you cant put beefy tires on a half ton pickup??? > I have dead weight towed 13K with no stabilty issues at all and better > that you 1/2 ton would with 7000 lbs > on a dead weight. It takes chassis and tires and suspension to handle > serious weight in any senerio not the stroke of a pen. Take your pick > you modern 1/2 ton is either greatly over rated or my 3500 is greatly > under rated. I guess your 3500 was under rated. I can tow almost 4000lbs with my ranger, and with the tires aired to max, have NO stability issues what-so-ever! It has to do with how you load the trailer (to a point) not the tow vehicle.. Obviously you dont want to exceed max tow capacity, but it wouldnt be rated for that capacity if it wasnt capable of doing it. I have also had, near if not all of, 2000lbs of rock in the bed of my RANGER, and I wasnt even hitting the spring stops yet. Yeah she was saggin a bit, but she wasnt loaded to the max. > ALso on you HP claims, this is another line of BS because > though it looks impressive on paper the GM 5.3 lacks power below 3000 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > second on interstate hills but many do now because this is want > detriot has taught you to accept. Ok its called gearing for gas mileage?? You may not care that back in the 60's and 70's cars were getting 8-12MPG on the highway, but today we like our 18-20MPG from our cars and trucks. Atleast that is what I get from my ranger on the highway. And the new F-150's are getting 15-18mpg on the highway, unloaded. There was also something called CAFE introduced into law, requiring all auto manufacturers to meet a certain average mpg requirement across the manufacturers whole line of vehicles.. So keep that in mind. > A old 69 Chevy, Oldsmobile or Pontiac family station wagon would out tow > you modern 1/2 ton SUV with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to tow properly, the marketablity of high dollar diesels would falter. > It is all a game that you have clearly fallen for. Ok before you go jumping on diesel engines, you better know who you are talking to. I am a diesel tech, and I have more knowledge about diesels in my little finger than you have in your brain. Diesels are more effiecent engines than gas. Diesel produces 138,000btu/lb and gas only produces 118,000btu/lb. Diesels are 60-75% efficient under load and at most a gas engine is 30-40% efficient under load. Now, if you are dumb enough to pull a load down the highway in OD, kiss the tranny good bye. You should never pull a load in OD, always use the OD OFF button or downshift to 4th when pulling, it says that in everyones owners manual, one of which you might not have read before. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com So mister SNO BLOWER, got anything else to bring to the table? I think I have proved my point here. Ford Tech > Florida boat ramps are the absolute pits. The idiots that build them > think > they should be as steep as the skyway bridge's main span. With out a > limited > slip he's going to have serious issues getting the rig out of the water. If both wheels are on the same sort of surface, a limited slip is not going to make much difference. A limited slip doesn't increase the traction available to the wheels, it just makes sure both are spinning together. If one wheel is on a slippery surface, and the other is on a high traction surface, a limited slip is valuable. If both wheels are on the same surface, a limited slip is not going to work wonders. I have a small farm. All the farm tractors I have owned have differential locks. In over 35 years of farming, I have never once found the differential lock to be useful. Spinning two wheels instead of one might look cool, but it isn't really doing much to get you moving. And if you are on the side of a hill, spinning two rear wheels is a good way to have the back of the truck slide down the hill (I've personal experience with this). If the ramps are really slippery and steep, 4WD with an open differential is a lot better than 2WD with a limited slip differential. Admittedly 4WD with a rear limited slip is better still. I have personally pulled a small pick-up and pontoon boat up a ramp with my Expedition because the pick-up just couldn't get enough traction to pull the pontoon boat out of the water. But then small pick-up are often light in the rear, and the traction available on a slopped surface is limited even under ideal conditions. A SportTrac should have more weight on the rear axle than a comparable pick-up, so I would think it would have less of a problem. Steep ramps might not be necessary for bass boats, but they sure are nice for sail boats. For shallow ramps I often have to back the truck out into the water to get the sail boat floating even though the one I launch has a swing keel. You ought to try and lunch one with a fixed keel on a shallow ramp. BTW I've seen my SO pull the sail boat up a ramp with a Toyota Camry but then it was front wheel drive.... Ed >> Florida boat ramps are the absolute pits. The idiots that build them >> think [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > traction available to the wheels, it just makes sure both are spinning > together. If It absolutely does, limited slip DOUBLES the traction surface available over what an open differential with ONLY one axel/tire spinning can offer. Have you ever driven a high horsepower/torque (big block) open differential car on a nice newly asphalted road, with perfect even traction to both axels? When you stomp on it you only get one big long single black mark, never two. Because the open differential is never going to power both axels when you start applying torque and spinning... Tractors are not the same as cars/trucks with much smaller tires by the way. I have a 4x4 tractor and use my rear axel lock quite often. One more tire adding a little bit more traction to overcome the resistance often makes all the difference. Ordering a limited slip rear costs a few hundred dollars or less on a new rig, and is a No-Brainer. The very first time it gets you off some wet grass without having to lock your hubs (If you happen to have 4X4) or get pulled out by someone else, you will be thankful you ordered it... > one wheel is on a slippery surface, and the other is on a high traction > surface, a limited slip is valuable. If both wheels are on the same [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Ed >> If both wheels are on the same sort of surface, a limited slip is not >> going to make much difference. A limited slip doesn't increase the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It absolutely does, limited slip DOUBLES the traction surface available > over what an open differential with ONLY one axel/tire spinning can offer. I suggest you study up on how a differential works. You will not DOUBLE the traction with a limited slip if both wheel are on equivalent surfaces. With an open differential, you can only supply as much torque to either wheel as will make the wheel with the least traction break loose. If both wheels are on a surface with the same traction avalable,the amount of torque applied to both will be approximately the same. Certainly, both wheel don't have exactly the same traction available, so one will break loose first. However, this doen't imply that no torque is being applied to the wheel that doesn't break loose. On the contrary, the same level of torque (or very close to it) is still being applied to the non-spinning wheel. With a solid rear axle, the torque reaction will slightly unload one wheel, and load the opposite wheel a little more. If you are drag racing and applying fuill power, then the unloaded wheel will always spin first, and this limits the amount of toruqe applied to the non-spinnng wheel to the same level as for the spinning wheel (and a spinning wheel can't provide as much traction as a non-spinning wheel, unless you are really spinning it fast so that it aacts more like a paddle wheel than a traction device). With a limited slip differential, the two wheels are locked together under this situation, so the wheel that is more heavily loaded can develop maximum traction based on the higher normal force applied to that tire. This is improtant for cases where you are applying maximum torque, but for someone easing a boat out of the water it is not so important. The effect is still, there but to a much less degree. Now if your two wheels are on radically different surfaces, a limited slip can be very useful. The down side is that if you break both wheels loose at the same time, you loose lateral location also. This is why cars with limited slip often fishtail on slippery surface. About the worst thing you can have on glare ice is a 2WD/RWD car with a torquey V-8 and a limited slip - especially if there are hills involved. > Have you ever driven a high horsepower/torque (big block) open > differential car on a nice newly asphalted road, with perfect even > traction to both axels? When you stomp on it you only get one big long > single black mark, never two. Because the open differential is never > going to power both axels when you start applying torque and spinning... Again, you need to study how differentials work. The fact that only one wheel is spinnng does not mean that torque is not being applied to the non-spinning wheel. With an open diferential both wheels are getting close to the same torque, even if one is spinning and the other is not. Leaving two black marks might be cool, but it doesn't mean that the guy who left one mark only had half as much traction. When turning or applying lots of power, the rear wheels are unevenly loaded (not the same normal force), so the two tires cannot develop the same traction. In this case a limited slip will be somewhat of an advantage, but it can lead to fish tailing and even a spin (for reckless kids). For most people, most of the time, the difference in traction available is trival. For kids who like to spin tires, the difference is signifiicant, but that is somethnig I am well past. > Tractors are not the same as cars/trucks with much smaller tires by the > way. > I have a 4x4 tractor and use my rear axel lock quite often. One more tire > adding a little bit more traction to overcome the resistance often makes > all the difference. The only thing that happens when I apply the differential lock is that both tires spin together and I dig two holes instead of one. > Ordering a limited slip rear costs a few hundred dollars or less on a new > rig, and is a No-Brainer. The very first time it gets you off some wet > grass without having to lock your hubs (If you happen to have 4X4) or get > pulled out by someone else, you will be thankful you ordered it... I don't disagree that a limited slip is worth the money. But I don't think a limited slip is necessary for pulling a relatively small boat up a well constructed ramp. In the case of the OP, I wouldn't go out and trade trucks becasue I don't have a lmited slip. For many years I pulled the 21 foot sail boat out with an 2WD F150 with an open rear differential. With the sail boat I was so far down the ramp that my rear wheels were under water and on the slippery stuff. I never had a problem pulling the boat out, even up some really steep ramps. Ed > Have you ever driven a high horsepower/torque (big block) open > differential car on a nice newly asphalted road, with perfect even > traction to both axels? When you stomp on it you only get one big long > single black mark, never two. Because the open differential is never > going to power both axels when you start applying torque and spinning... You are confusing breaking a wheel loose with "powering" a wheel. With an open differential, both wheels always receive approximately the same torque (the traction to either wheel is limited to the traction available to the wheel with the least traction). The non-spinning wheel is getting more or less the same torque applied as the "spinning" wheel. The open differential allows the wheels to turn at different speeds. With a limited slip, the two wheels are locked together under some conditions. This means that if you have enough power you can now break both wheels loose, not just one. If both wheels have approximately equal traction available, this is not going to be a big advantage over an open differential. The big advantage of a limited slip is that both wheels turn together in situations where there is drastically different traction available to the two wheels - like when one wheel is on ice and the other is on pavement, or where one wheel is in a hole and the other is on solid ground. In this case, the traction is not limited by the wheel with the least traction. Both wheel turn at the approximately the same speed, even though one wheel has drastically less traction available. The downside of a limited slip is that if both wheels are on surfaces with limited traction, both wheels break loose. Once a wheel is spinning, it is just as likely to go sideways as forward. Since it can easily go sideways, cars with limited slip are likely to fishtail and can be easily spun out. I had a Mustang GT with a limited slip rear axle. Is was very difficult to drive on ice. The rear end was difficult to control. The car also had traction control, but on ice, this was virtually useless since it reduced engine power. You could either leave the traction control on, and the car had virtually no power to climb a hill, or leave it off and have to wrestle with the rear end. Not fun. 4WD really helps in this situation, since the front wheels tend to pull you straight. > Tractors are not the same as cars/trucks with much smaller tires by the > way. > I have a 4x4 tractor and use my rear axel lock quite often. One more tire > adding a little bit more traction to overcome the resistance often makes > all the difference. Not if you are in a plowed field that is relatively consistent. > Ordering a limited slip rear costs a few hundred dollars or less on a new > rig, and is a No-Brainer. The very first time it gets you off some wet > grass without having to lock your hubs (If you happen to have 4X4) or get > pulled out by someone else, you will be thankful you ordered it... I actually agree with you on this. I would always recommend some sort of limited slip on a 4x4. My Nissan Frontier has an interesting system that uses the ABS system to lock a spinning wheel (or at least add drag to it). This applies more torque to the wheel on the more solid surface. So far, this system seems to work better than a conventional limited slip. However, I've only used it in mud, never in a situation where one wheel is completely off the ground. That is not something I do (at least not on purpose). Ed |
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