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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Trucks / November 2007Blown sparkplug on Trition V8 (2002) 5.4L 350 XLT
This scared the bejesus out of me today. Shut it down immediately until I found out what it was. #1 plug blew right out of the hole and threads look hosed. Is this a job for a special helicoil insert or what????? Need some advice pretty quick so I know how to deal with anybody who says they can fix it. Chuck >This scared the bejesus out of me today. Shut it down immediately until I found out what it was. > #1 plug blew right out of the hole and threads look hosed. Is this a job for a special helicoil insert or what????? > Need some advice pretty quick so I know how to deal with anybody who says they can fix it. There was a recall on some of those engines you might check into that. You can have a helocoil installed. The problem is that Ford used wrong plug design and wrong torque spec. The threads did not actually strip out the way you think. Then aluminum in heads has a different expansion rate than steel plugs and over time the loosen up and rattle in threaded bore until it kinda loosens up enough to wear threads out from rattling and flame cutting. In future just check plug every 5K miles or so and make sure they are snug. (you want to install/torque them when engine is cold) ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>This scared the bejesus out of me today. Shut it down immediately >>until I found out what it was. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com This is BS. There is no recall, there is a TSB. If the plugs are installed properly and torqued properly, there is no need to check them every 5K miles. Ford did not use wrong torque spec - mechanics replacing the plugs do. The proper torque spec is 11 ft.lbs. (14 Nm) (or 9.5 to 20 Nm / 7 to 15 foot-pounds). As for whether or not it is the wrong plug design, I guess it is if mechanics can't put them in properly. I am confident than when the plugs are properly installed, there won't be a problem. Unfortuntely, it appears it take a real mechanic (skilled and careful) to do it correctly. Given the general level of mechanics working these days, that means you are likely to have a problem. This means it is a bad design. I owned two Expeditons with the supposedly "bad" plugs, and in my family we had three other vehicles with the supposedly bad design plugs. We never had a problem. I had the plugs in my 1997 Expedition changed at 100,000 miles (they actually looked good) and 50,000 miles later things were still fine. I had the plugs in my 2003 (with supposedly different plugs - but they looked the same) changed at 100,000 miles without incident. Mechanics who don't torque the plugs properly can cause all sorts of problem. If you don't torque them enough, they will loosen over time and destroy the threads. If you use too high a torque, you destroy the threads right away. I have seen it claimed that some engines came from Ford with the plugs improperly torqued. I can't confirm this. I talked to my local mechanics (not a Ford mechanic) and he's never seen one with the problem unless someone had changed the plugs. Ford just released a TSB that authorizes the use of a particualr type of insert for non-warranty repairs (for warranty repairs, Ford says to replace the head). Here is the TSB: TSB 07-21-2 4.6L 2V, 5.4L 2V, OR 6.8L 2V - SPARK PLUG THREAD REPAIR PROCEDURE - NOT COVERED UNDER NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY Publication Date: October 17, 2007 FORD:1997 Thunderbird 1997-2004 Mustang 1997-2008 Crown Victoria 1997-1999 F-250 Light Duty 1997-2004 Expedition 1997-2008 E-Series, F-150 1998-2004 F-53 Motorhome Chassis, F-Super Duty 2001-2005 Excursion 2002-2006 Explorer LINCOLN:1997-2007 Town Car 1998-1999 Navigator MERCURY:1997 Cougar 1997-2008 Grand Marquis 2002-2006 Mountaineer This article supersedes TSB 07-15-2 to update the vehicle model years. ISSUE: Some 1997-2008 vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 2V, 5.4L 2V, or 6.8L 2V engine and aluminum cylinder heads may experience a spark plug port with stripped or missing threads. ACTION: Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition for non warrantable repairs. SERVICE PROCEDURE Ford Motor Company now authorizes LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum insert and tool kit as a proper repair procedure. Follow the procedure included in the tool kit for using the tools and inserts. Tool kits and inserts can be ordered from Rotunda by calling 1-800-Rotunda (768-8632). Choose option two (2), part number 302-00001. NOTE:FORD MOTOR COMPANY HAS DETERMINED THAT REPAIRS MADE WITH THESE ALUMINUM INSERTS AND LOCK-N-STITCH TOOLS DO NOT AFFECT THE HEAT TRANSFER FUNCTION BETWEEN THE SPARK PLUG AND THE CYLINDER HEAD. [note from Ed W - http://fulltorque.com/ ] NOTE:THIS PROCEDURE IS NOT AUTHORIZED AS A FORD WARRANTY REPAIR. FOR VEHICLES WITHIN WARRANTY, REPLACEMENT OF THE CYLINDER HEAD IS RECOMMENDED. NOTE:THIS IS THE ONLY FORD AUTHORIZED PROCEDURE FOR SPARK PLUG THREAD REPAIRS. NOTE:THIS PROCEDURE IS AUTHORIZED FOR ESP REPAIRS AND RETAIL REPAIRS. WARRANTY STATUS: Information Only - Not Warrantable --------------------------------- Other intersting web sites: http://fulltorque.com/ http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplugford.html http://www.mattstruck.com/sparkplugs/sparkplugs.html http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb40340.htm http://www.engine-builder.com/ar/Ford.pdf http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/4.6_&_5.4_Stripped_Threads.pdf http://www.blownoutsparkplug.com/faqs.htm All Expedition Owners should conside joining the Expedition Owners Group. See: Expedition mailing list Expedition@xpog.com Use this link to manage your subscription: http://mail.xpog.com/mailman/listinfo/expedition List archives: http://archive.xpog.com Regards, Ed White >This is BS. There is no recall, there is a TSB. If the plugs are >installed properly and torqued properly, there is no need to check >them every 5K miles. Ford did not use wrong torque spec - mechanics >replacing the plugs do. The proper torque spec is 11 ft.lbs. (14 Nm) >(or 9.5 to 20 Nm / 7 to 15 foot-pounds). The BS is yours here. They did have a LOT of issue with plugs coming out of 5.4 and V10 with aluminum head in years past and ford did change the plug style and torque on them. You ned to get your ducks in a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not recommand retightening them every 5K, I do on problem engine to make sure they are staying snug. If they are not found loose after a few times then you can skip it. It is/was a problem that Ford likes to keep quiet about because they do not want to have to "eat" a lot of them if they do not have too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com You ned to get your ducks in > a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not > recommand retightening them every 5K, I do on problem engine to make [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com I hate it when a guy spots off without his ducks lined up. Spdloader > You ned to get your ducks in >> a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Spdloader Especially when he NEDS to get them in a row before he SPOTS off... >> You ned to get your ducks in >>> a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Especially when he NEDS to get them in a row before he SPOTS off... lol >>> You ned to get your ducks in >>>> a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >lol Yes you guys really have issues with facts if they do not jizz with your comprehension. Even a quick google search yeild tons of problems (I bet they were all installed wrong too huh?) Below is but a few articles on the "subject" http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html http://www.topix.com/forum/autos/ford/TR7HFU0VD0N2U9KPD http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=7on_your_side&id=4757786 http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RELIABILITY/signatures-1.html ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>>> You ned to get your ducks in >>>>> a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Damn! I wudda bought something other than that Triton with the alum heads had I known about this. > Yes you guys really have issues with facts if they do not jizz with > your comprehension. Even a quick google search yeild tons of problems > (I bet they were all installed wrong too huh?) Below is but a few > articles on the "subject" Don't misunderstand, Snojob! We were laughing at you! lol Spdloader > Yes you guys really have issues with facts if they do not jizz "Jizz?" > with your comprehension. Even a quick google search yeild tons of problems > (I bet they were all installed wrong too huh?) Below is but a few [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RELIABILITY/signatures-1.html What's interesting about those four links is that they totally refute your earlier assertion that there is/was a recall issued for this defect. >> Yes you guys really have issues with facts if they do not jizz > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > refute your earlier assertion that there is/was a recall issued > for this defect. Jizz = That's what happens when you don't have your ducks lined up, and you spot off. It was in all the bad 70's porno. Spdloader >What's interesting about those four links is that they totally >refute your earlier assertion that there is/was a recall issued >for this defect. THere was a recall/TSB of sorts on it that I saw some time ago that I cannot locate at this time. This is a classic Detriot screw up. In this case it is Ford. Theyhave a big problem but rather than admitt problem, they try to pass it off to consumers. I have heard of a few getting them fixed for free out of warranty when they complained loud enough. Given the amount of these engines on the road, to "fix" all of them could easily run into the hundreds of millions of dollars and beyond so they try to shift blame. Kinda like the Explorer rollover thing when a rear tire blows. They blamed the tire (never mind tht door sticker underinflated it and vehicle was so unstable that a tire failure was almost a sure ticke to a roll over) to limit liablity even though Ford quietly did a MAJOR redesign of explore chassi in 03 little was officailly said but it was done to reduce roll over tendancies. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>What's interesting about those four links is that they totally >>refute your earlier assertion that there is/was a recall issued [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > little was officailly said but it was done to reduce roll over > tendancies. You are just full of BS. Even the Firestone executives admitted that the tires installed on the Explorer should have been sufficient to carry the load imposed by an Explorer if only inflated to 22 psi (instead of 28). They were recommending the 30 to provide even more margin. And in fact, Explorers were never particularly prone to roll over no matter what the press tried to claim. Chevy S10 Blazers, Toyota 4Runners, Isuzu Trooper, etc all had much higher rates of rollover than 4 Door Explorers. The whole thing was a media driven feeding frenzy. And finally, 1996 Explorers were sold with both Goodyear and Firestone tries. Both brands had the same inflation pressure recommendations. Only the Firestone tires had a high failure rate. The supposedly dangerous 1990's era 4 Door Explorers were among the safest vehicles of the period. Among 4 door SUVs of the late 90's only the Jeep Grand Cherokee had a lower insurance industry injury loss rating. The Explorer was completely redesigned for the 2002 Model Year - not 2003. The 2002 Explorer was completely different and included IRS. Your claim that this was primarily done to reduce the rollover risk is more BS, although I am sure improved safety was one of the reasons. On the other hand, the Explorer Sport and Explorer SportTrac continued with the older type chassis beyond 2002. Ed > >What's interesting about those four links is that they totally > >refute your earlier assertion that there is/was a recall issued > >for this defect. > > THere was a recall/TSB Are you sure you want to change your story? On second thought, I guess you don't have much choice, do you? > of sorts on it that I saw some time ago that I > cannot locate at this time. Can't because it doesn't exist. <snip irrelevant> >> >What's interesting about those four links is that they totally >> >refute your earlier assertion that there is/was a recall issued [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >On second thought, I guess you don't have much choice, do you? Not changing anything >> of sorts on it that I saw some time ago that I >> cannot locate at this time. > >Can't because it doesn't exist. > ><snip irrelevant> Oh I have seen it, also Ford would not have changed spark plug and head design in spark plug if there was not a problem there even if they hate to admit it in a massive recall. (just like quietly changing explorer) BTW, Ford is not alone on coverups as GM has been doing it for years with piston slap issue on modualr V8's due to poor production tolerance control during building to minimize waste and limit costs they ship them out the door and then say it is now normal. And then there is the Ford 6.0 PS issue of acceptable fuel level in oil. The industry standard is 2% or less but after constant issues with injector leakage problems on some 6.0',s that even caused many suffer from crank bearing failure, Ford upped its standard to 8% for 6.0! (that is a lot of fuel dilution) The sad part is that they took a solid proven engine, the 7.3, and replaced it with a troublesome one at best. Hopefully the new 6.4 will do better. Dodge has had its "problems" too that they do not talk about. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > >> >What's interesting about those four links is that they totally > >> >refute your earlier assertion that there is/was a recall issued [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Not changing anything You most certainly are. First you said there was a recall. Then you claimed there was a "recall/TSB" (whatever that is). IOWs, you got your facts wrong and now you're back pedaling. > >> of sorts on it that I saw some time ago that I > >> cannot locate at this time. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > head design in spark plug if there was not a problem there even if > they hate to admit it in a massive recall. What would be the grounds for the recall? There is no safety problem, and like it or not, the mere fact that the repair costs the vehicle owner money once the trucks are out of warranty, is not cause to issue a recall. > (just like quietly changing > explorer) Quietly? Were they supposed to call you and announce something? > BTW, Ford is not alone on coverups as GM has been doing it > for years with piston slap issue on modualr V8's due to poor > production tolerance control during building to minimize waste and > limit costs they ship them out the door and then say it is now normal. You forgot camshafts there bub. > And then there is the Ford 6.0 PS issue of acceptable fuel level in > oil. The industry standard is 2% or less but after constant issues [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > at best. Hopefully the new 6.4 will do better. Dodge has had its > "problems" too that they do not talk about. WOW! So much frustration for one person. >>> >What's interesting about those four links is that they totally >>> >refute your earlier assertion that there is/was a recall issued [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > head design in spark plug if there was not a problem there even if > they hate to admit it in a massive recall. (just like quietly changing You really should brush up on topics before you use them to make your misinformed points, you are wrong on the spark plug issue, the explorer issue, and the 6.0 liter diesel issue... Three Strikes you are out SnowBlower. > explorer) BTW, Ford is not alone on coverups as GM has been doing it > for years with piston slap issue on modualr V8's due to poor > production tolerance control during building to minimize waste and > limit costs they ship them out the door and then say it is now normal. Get your misinformed sh.t straight SnowBlower! The 7.3 was INCAPABLE of meeting emission standards!!! Once again, the Ford 7.3 diesel engine was INCAPABLE of meeting emission standards, it was gone with or without the 6.0 Liter. Could you sound any more ignorant if you tried? Perhaps you are trying? You latch onto little things and make an a.s out of yourself trying to make them bigger issues than they are. Take you ignorant parroting of the Firestone tire Ford Explorer media misinformation. Maybe its time to take a break and go put some lower gears in your Chivy. BTW: My 2005 6.0 is just shy of 45,000 absolutely trouble free miles, almost broken in. When was the last time you actually bought and drove a new Ford truck again SnowBlower? Oh yeah, that's right, you never have. Now STFU and leave the grownups alone. > And then there is the Ford 6.0 PS issue of acceptable fuel level in > oil. The industry standard is 2% or less but after constant issues [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com > Oh I have seen it, also Ford would not have changed spark plug and > head design in spark plug if there was not a problem there even if [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Ford changed the head to get more power. The so called PI heads. The spark plugs were changed at this times, but I've seen people claim these blow as well. When they changed to the three valve heads, the plugs were radically changed. I have not seen anyone claim that they blow - just that you can't get them out easily. There are Recalls (usually safety related), Customer Satisfaction Programs (to fix common Consumer Complaints), Technical Service Bulletins (to describe common problems and solutions), and OASIS messages (to describe less common problems and solution on a faster turn around). Safety recalls are always done at the companies expense no matter what the warranty status. Customer Satisfaction Programs may cover the complete cost of a repair, or a portion, and usually have an expiration date. TSBs and Oasis messages don't imply that the company will pay for a repair, although they may cover the repair under the standard warranty. As far as I know there are no recalls or Customer Satisfaction Programs related to the "spark plug blowing" concern. Ford did recently issue a TSB (07-21-2) authorizing a particular type of thread repair system for non-warranty repairs for certain Modular V-8 . In the past, Ford only authorized head replacement as a fix for a blown spark plug. Head replacement is still the only authorized fix for a vehicle under warranty. For vehicles out of warranty, the Lock-n-Stitch. Here (again) is the text of the TSB: TSB 07-21-2 4.6L 2V, 5.4L 2V, OR 6.8L 2V - SPARK PLUG THREAD REPAIR PROCEDURE - NOT COVERED UNDER NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY Publication Date: October 17, 2007 FORD: 1997 Thunderbird 1997-2004 Mustang 1997-2008 Crown Victoria 1997-1999 F-250 Light Duty 1997-2004 Expedition 1997-2008 E-Series, F-150 1998-2004 F-53 Motorhome Chassis, F-Super Duty 2001-2005 Excursion 2002-2006 Explorer LINCOLN: 1997-2007 Town Car 1998-1999 Navigator MERCURY: 1997 Cougar 1997-2008 Grand Marquis 2002-2006 Mountaineer This article supersedes TSB 07-15-2 to update the vehicle model years. ISSUE: Some 1997-2008 vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 2V, 5.4L 2V, or 6.8L 2V engine and aluminum cylinder heads may experience a spark plug port with stripped or missing threads. ACTION: Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition for non warrantable repairs. SERVICE PROCEDURE Ford Motor Company now authorizes LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum insert and tool kit as a proper repair procedure. Follow the procedure included in the tool kit for using the tools and inserts. Tool kits and inserts can be ordered from Rotunda by calling 1-800-Rotunda (768-8632). Choose option two (2), part number 302-00001. NOTE:FORD MOTOR COMPANY HAS DETERMINED THAT REPAIRS MADE WITH THESE ALUMINUM INSERTS AND LOCK-N-STITCH TOOLS DO NOT AFFECT THE HEAT TRANSFER FUNCTION BETWEEN THE SPARK PLUG AND THE CYLINDER HEAD. [note from Ed W - http://fulltorque.com/ ] NOTE:THIS PROCEDURE IS NOT AUTHORIZED AS A FORD WARRANTY REPAIR. FOR VEHICLES WITHIN WARRANTY, REPLACEMENT OF THE CYLINDER HEAD IS RECOMMENDED. NOTE: THIS IS THE ONLY FORD AUTHORIZED PROCEDURE FOR SPARK PLUG THREAD REPAIRS. NOTE: THIS PROCEDURE IS AUTHORIZED FOR ESP REPAIRS AND RETAIL REPAIRS. WARRANTY STATUS: Information Only - Not Warrantable --------------------------------- SnoMan wrote: You ned to get your ducks in a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not recommand retightening every 5K, I do to be sure they stay snug. ____________________________________________ "Spdloader" wrote: I hate it when a guy SPOTS off without his ducks lined up. ______________________________________________ <nobody@msn.com> wrote: Especially when he NEDS to get them in a row before he SPOTS off... ______________________________________________ The message is what's important, not the language problem. I RECOMMAND that we all back off for a WHIEL. Rodan. > The message is what's important, not the language problem. > I RECOMMAND that we all back off for a WHIEL. The message is the problem. > You ned to get your ducks in >> a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Spdloader It takes a lot of effort to keep a bunch of ducks in line. >> You ned to get your ducks in >>> a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > It takes a lot of effort to keep a bunch of ducks in line. Like herding cats. Spdloader >>This is BS. There is no recall, there is a TSB. If the plugs are >>installed properly and torqued properly, there is no need to check [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Snowblower! Have you ever thought about or even tried using a spell checker? Your spelling is atrocious! Not as bad as most of you misguided misinformation, but it does run a close second... > The BS is yours here. They did have a LOT of issue with plugs coming > out of 5.4 and V10 with aluminum head in years past and ford did [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com BS. There is no way, if the plugs are installed properly, that you need to check them every 5k miles. If you are so unsure of your mechanics that you need to check his work every few thousand miles, you need a new mechanic. I am of the opinion that if it can be confirmed that a factory plug blew out in less than the plug service interval, then Ford is responsible and should pay for the repair. If a plug installed by a shop blows out, the shop should be responsible. If the shop can't take responsibility for their error, then they should not agree to take the job. My favorite mechanic refused to change the plugs on my 1997 Expedition at 100k miles because he had never done one and was not comfortable doing the job (he was afraid it would be so complicated it would not be cost effective). Therefore I had it done at the dealership. Apparently they knew what they were doing, because I never had a problem over the next 50k miles. When I wanted to have the plugs changed in my 2003 Expedition 5.4L, my favorite mechanic did it without hesitation. Between the first job an and the second, he had decided he needed to take on that sort of work. He apparently did a good job as well, since I had no problems with those plugs either. If you want to blame Ford for a bad plug design, fine, I agree it is a bad design, but the fact is you don't need more than 3 or 4 threads to achieve maximum strength in a joint - assuming proper initial torque. Having only a few threads can be a bad thing if you don't properly install the plugs. Conversely, having 10 or 15 threads is no guarantee that you cannot strip the threads in an aluminum head. I suspect that most of the Ford blown plug failures are related to improper installation by shops, not by the factory (although some clearly are factory problems). However, if you have a part designed with installation requirements that are so critical that it makes "normal" field replacement difficult, then it is a bad design. I have asked my local mechanic (not a Ford mechanic) if he has ever seen a Ford modular engine with a blown plug and so far he has not. I realize this is a small sample size, but if the problem was as prevalent as some claim, he should have seen at least one in the last decade. Finally, if you think the 1997-2003 plugs were bad, wait till you have the plugs changed in one of the three valve modular engines. They should fire the engineer that did that one. If I had a three valve engine, I'd have the plugs changed yearly or never have the plugs changed. Ed >>>This scared the bejesus out of me today. Shut it down immediately until >>>I found out what it was. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > my local mechanics (not a Ford mechanic) and he's never seen one with the > problem unless someone had changed the plugs. My 2002 F150 company work truck recently blew out the rear, passenger side plug. Just under 40,000 miles on the truck. The plugs were original, never removed or replaced. I have taken the truck in for all servicing, which up to this incident has only been oil changes. It would have been nice to have someone to blame for the problem, instead of Ford. It is kind of odd that only Ford vehicles are having this "mechanic" caused problem. An improper head design is the real culprit, or all aluminum head engines would have similar, critical torque requirements and plug blow-outs. >>>>This scared the bejesus out of me today. Shut it down immediately until >>>>I found out what it was. [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > head engines would have similar, critical torque requirements and plug > blow-outs. Well.... I didn't mean to stir-up a hornets nest but I guess I did inadvertently, AND got some good info to think about in the process. The threads appear OK on the plug that blew out and I am checking to make sure each of the plugs are tight (not too tight). Thanks again. Chuck > My 2002 F150 company work truck recently blew out the rear, passenger side > plug. Just under 40,000 miles on the truck. The plugs were original, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > head engines would have similar, critical torque requirements and plug > blow-outs. Actually proper torque is essential for all aluminum heads. The Ford problem does appear to be especially common, but it is not unique. One thing I don't understand is that no one heard of this problem before 1997. Ford modular engines have been in production since the early 90's. The plug design was the same from the early 90's until 2003. Why don't we hear about significant numbers of plugs blowing out of older Town Cars, Mustangs, or Crown Victorias (all which used the modular V-8s). My personal theory is that although the 5.4L engines uses the same heads as the 4.6L engines, the 5.4L engines stress the heads to a greater degree, making proper torquing of the plugs excessively critical. I consider this a design defect but one that can be avoided if you are very careful. In my family we have owned a total of 5 Fords with the modular V-8: 1992 Mercury Grand marquis - 4.6L no problems in 8 years, 90k miles 1997 Ford Expedition - 5.4L - no problems in 5 years 150k miles 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis - no problems in 6 years 80k miles 2001 Ford Mustang - 4.6L - no problems in 4 years, 50k miles 2003 Ford Expedition - 5.4L - no problems in 4 years, 100k miles The plugs were changed in the two Expeditions (100k miles for the '97, 80k miles for the '03). http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb40340.htm http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl466h.htm http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/corolla/61813-stripped-spark-plug-thread/ Ed > Actually proper torque is essential for all aluminum heads. The Ford problem > does appear to be especially common, but it is not unique. One thing I don't [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > The plugs were changed in the two Expeditions (100k miles for the '97, 80k > miles for the '03). You've expressed my sentiment on this issue better than I could have type it out (combining your last few posts into one reply here). I particularly feel you are right on about the engines not being made durably enough to withstand normal, real world service procedures and precautions. Obviously something about this series of engines is designed more poorly than the vast majority of the competition, otherwise these spark plug failures wouldn't be happening at all. This isn't an endorsement nor would I attempt it, but I bet you I could take any other engine and either hand tighten the plugs with only an extension and socket -or- blast them with an impact without fear of ejection (for many years/miles down the road). Why this design is so finicky, I haven't the faintest. I trust you've seen or heard about the bizarre new head design and plugs that Ford implimented with the revised 3 valve engine design; if not, here's a link to a jpeg: http://info.rockauto.com/Honeywell/AutoliteDetail.html?HT1_012406.jpg Do those look failure prone or what? BTW, they are narrower than standard 5/8" hex plugs (9/16"). There are already technicians' accounts of the extended tip getting stuck in its bore and snapping off. Ford seems to be jumping out of the frying pan and right into the fire on this issue, to steal an idiom. Toyota MDT in MO In article <1194117944.345776.136880@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > Actually proper torque is essential for all aluminum heads. The Ford problem > > does appear to be especially common, but it is not unique. One thing I don't [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO I stocked up on Kroil. > I trust you've seen or heard about the bizarre new head design and > plugs that Ford implimented with the revised 3 valve engine design; [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > off. Ford seems to be jumping out of the frying pan and right into > the fire on this issue, to steal an idiom. My personal feeling is, the guy that designed that head should be fired. Ford has already issued a long service bulletin that explains how to take out those monsters. And for cases where the lower shield separates from the main plug, they tell you how to thread the inside of the shield and pull it out.......EEEEKKKKKK! If I had a 3 valve Modular V-8 I would either replace the plugs yearly - or never! My experience with the older Ford V-8s was that the plugs actually don't need to be changed in at least 150k miles, so before I started messing with those things, I'd just keep on driving until I had a failure. Otherwise it is a very strong engine. A friend just got a F350 with one and he is delighted with the performance pulling his cattle trailer. He claims it pulls it better than his older F250 with the PowerStroke Diesel. I just hope he never needs to replace the plugs. Keeping up with regular maintenance is not one of his strong suits. Ed >>>This scared the bejesus out of me today. Shut it down immediately until >>>I found out what it was. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > 15 foot-pounds). As for whether or not it is the wrong plug design, I > guess it is if mechanics can't put them in properly. The problem is they blow out without anyone touching them. If that's not a bad design, it's bad mechanical work at the factory. If the owner never replaced or had the plugs replaced, Ford should do the repair free. If you Google "Ford blown spark plugs" you will see it's not a rare problem. Al > The problem is they blow out without anyone touching them. If that's > not a bad design, it's bad mechanical work at the factory. If the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Al I agree if the original Ford installed plugs blow out, Ford should pay for the repair. Ironically, I have only had one plug blow out in my life - and it was in an iron head 4.9L six. It happened within days of having the plugs changed. The mechanic that did the work apologized and fixed the problem. Ed This scared the bejesus out of me today. Shut it down immediately until I found out what it was. #1 plug blew right out of the hole and threads look hosed. Is this a job for a special helicoil insert or what????? Need some advice pretty quick so I know how to deal with anybody who says they can fix it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/17035497@N08/1810582306/ I come back here everyday to see what is going on. I found these good photos (5 shown on link above) of a dirty coil over plug (COP) boot and dirty spark plug bore that is a clear sign of a leaking and loose plug. This is a great way to keep an eye on this situation. I admit that I did hear a rhythmic hissing sound that I should have jumped on, now knowing it was the compression stroke gasses blowing past the threads. I am just glad it was the #1 plug and that there was no fuel rail or COP damage other than a broken mounting ear. You definitely need to be sure you get the proper spark plug model in there, torque it properly, maybe using some anti-seize compound on the threads etc. Its tough to see, but with a very bright flashlight I have visually looked at each of the areas where the spark plug bores are and there appears to be no "blow by." There sure is around the one that blew out though. Without choosing sides of all the people who helped contribute their thoughts on this incident, I agree with Ed and his EXCELLENT comments throughout. ps: If you want to read a real horror story on one guys Triton problems, read http://home.nycap.rr.com/tritonlemon/ whew.... |
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