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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / August 2006Trying to charge 2000 Windstar A/C
I am trying to recharge the A/C in my Windstar, but I do not know which side is the low side. Anyone out there that can help me? Regards, Dachef > I am trying to recharge the A/C in my Windstar, but I do not know which > side is the low side. Anyone out there that can help me? > > Regards, > > Dachef No offense intended Dachef, but if you don't even know how to ID the low side fitting you have no business trying to service your AC. You could get injured or cause very expensive damage to your system. Why are you trying to charge the system? Low on refrigerant? How do you know? If it is low there is a leak, did you repair the leak? If you repaired the leak, the system was opened, did you pull a vacuum? There is a lot more to fixing an AC system than adding refrigerant! let me tack a question on here, my 99 windstar with 100k, its A/C has been getting weaker for the last couple summers or so. I was going to bring it to the dealer for the a/c service and recharge. But does this mean I have a small leak somewhere or do properly working systems just get weaker over time? >> I am trying to recharge the A/C in my Windstar, but I do not know which >> side is the low side. Anyone out there that can help me? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > repaired the leak, the system was opened, did you pull a vacuum? > There is a lot more to fixing an AC system than adding refrigerant! > let me tack a question on here, my 99 windstar with 100k, its A/C has been > getting weaker for the last couple summers or so. I was going to bring it to > the dealer for the a/c service and recharge. But does this mean I have a > small leak somewhere or do properly working systems just get weaker over > time? If the fading performance is due to a low charge, then yes there is a leak. AC systems don't "use" refrigerant and it doesn't get weak with age. Take a look at all of the connections in the AC lines. If you find one (or more) that has oily dirt on it, you've found a leak. Compressor shaft seal leaks are also very common. AC repair can be DIY, but you need to do a little bit of homework to understand the how and why. I would suggest checking out: http://www.autoacforum.com/ I should have mentioned this in my original reply to Dachef, sorry. AC repair is one area that lack of knowledge can cost you a lot of money. great... I was hoping I'd just be paying for the a/c service and some refigerant... hope its not something expensive, I do think my compressor coil might be starting to chirp a bit >> let me tack a question on here, my 99 windstar with 100k, its A/C has >> been getting weaker for the last couple summers or so. I was going to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I should have mentioned this in my original reply to Dachef, sorry. AC > repair is one area that lack of knowledge can cost you a lot of money. > let me tack a question on here, my 99 windstar with 100k, its A/C has > been getting weaker for the last couple summers or so. I was going to > bring it to the dealer for the a/c service and recharge. But does this > mean I have a small leak somewhere or do properly working systems just > get weaker over time? No they dont get weaker... Have never touched my 95 Taurus A/C and it's icy-cold. Assume you DO know how to determine the low side. ;) If that low side is cold all the way to the compressor, though.. check the blend door. >>> I am trying to recharge the A/C in my Windstar, but I do not know >>> which side is the low side. Anyone out there that can help me? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> repaired the leak, the system was opened, did you pull a vacuum? >> There is a lot more to fixing an AC system than adding refrigerant!  SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! I do all my own auto repairs except for a/c and auto trannies, dont plan on messing with the windstar much in that dept. I am going to do the 134 conversion on a 87 5th ave which has no regirerant at all in it, it all leaked out 4 years ago so I shouldnt have to worry about freezing my face off. Hoping the o rings from the conversion kit might fix the leak. then I'm gonna bring it do a shop and have them check it for leaks and charge it. >> let me tack a question on here, my 99 windstar with 100k, its A/C has >> been getting weaker for the last couple summers or so. I was going to [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> repaired the leak, the system was opened, did you pull a vacuum? >>> There is a lot more to fixing an AC system than adding refrigerant! > I do all my own auto repairs except for a/c and auto trannies, dont plan on > messing with the windstar much in that dept. I am going to do the 134 > conversion on a 87 5th ave which has no regirerant at all in it, it all > leaked out 4 years ago so I shouldnt have to worry about freezing my face > off. Hoping the o rings from the conversion kit might fix the leak. then I'm > gonna bring it do a shop and have them check it for leaks and charge it. On those late 80s FWD Chryslers, the hose set almost always leaked at the crimps. I'll bet that's where yours is leaking. Just a heads up. > > I do all my own auto repairs except for a/c and auto trannies, dont plan on > > messing with the windstar much in that dept. I am going to do the 134 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > crimps. > I'll bet that's where yours is leaking. Just a heads up. I remember quite a few where I could actually see the oil and refrigerant oozing right thru the hose. They cranked out some real crap back then... >let me tack a question on here, my 99 windstar with 100k, its A/C has been >getting weaker for the last couple summers or so. I was going to bring it to >the dealer for the a/c service and recharge. But does this mean I have a >small leak somewhere or do properly working systems just get weaker over >time? It's normal for them to have small leaks - no seal is perfect. If no air has gotten in, and no compressor oil has leaked out, you can just top off the refrigerant and be done for a few more years. But you Really Do Need a proper gauge manifold at the bare minimum so you can see both the high-side and low-side pressures in the system - it's too easy to goof up and overfill the system with the "Refill Kits" and damage the system or hurt yourself. Harbor Freight Tools has cheap R-134 gauge manifold sets - fine for occasional use, not for daily use. And you can pick up a good Chef's Digital instant-reading thermometer almost anywhere for $10 to $20. And do learn a bit about how the system works before you try filling it, same reason. You can see the proper temperature for the pressure, and then you see if the cold air coming out agrees with the low-side pressure gauge, and the liquid line temperature from the condenser agrees with the high-side pressure, plus a little sub-cooling - if not, there is a bigger problem somewhere. --<< Bruce >>-- Actually, the better method is to recover the system and apply a deep vacuum.... allow the system to "rest" while observing any vacuum drop. It is at this time that a judgement call will be made - pray for an experienced tech with good judgement. There are leaks that will be relatively easy to find and there are leaks that will be nearly impossible to find.... as techs, we need to be able to tell the difference without spending way too much money on whims.... If the leak is not readily identifiable - including a thorough search for "tattletales", add dye and recharge the system with the correct amount of R134a. "Topping off" the system is a fools errand and runs the chance of allowing a sealant or other virus into the system (rendrring it unserviceable in the eyes of any competent shop) or resulting in an overcharge that can damage the compressor. Far too many systems have had added damage from improper repair attempts...... what could have been an expeditious repair is turned into a major financial because the DIYer lacks a basic understanding of the system Additionally, we are slopping R134a around with the same reckless abandon that brought about the demise of R12..... If we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it... Now... I'm going to sit back and wait for the first self righteous bastuhd to tell me it is "his" air I am breathing and it is his choice as to whether or not he will foul it... >Actually, the better method is to recover the system and apply a deep >vacuum.... allow the system to "rest" while observing any vacuum drop. It is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >"tattletales", add dye and recharge the system with the correct amount of >R134a. In a perfect world, this would get done to all cars. And repair shops would charge reasonable labor rates and parts prices for that simple and routine work... But the world isn't perfect - witness all the witless people thinking that one of those shop-air powered venturi "vacuum pumps" is a deep enough vacuum for proper AC work. You can't get anywhere near the 50 microns and below that you need with one. I have a Universal Refrigerant Technician license, and the hand tools, manifolds, and a leak detector from a few years working in the refrigeration industry - but no recovery machine or oil diffusion vacuum pump, I always used the companies' and don't have my own. I even have to take my own car in and have someone else service it if the AC system needs to be recovered and evacuated. > "Topping off" the system is a fools errand and runs the chance of >allowing a sealant or other virus into the system (rendering it >unserviceable in the eyes of any competent shop) or resulting in an >overcharge that can damage the compressor. Which is why I said you HAVE TO have a proper gauge manifold and an accurate thermometer at a bare minimum before even thinking about 'topping off' the system. You have to see the high and low sides, and know the system temperatures to know what's going on in there before doing anything - and the one-gauge low side "Suicide Kits" at Pep Boys won't tell you, especially since sight glasses have gone away. And you really should have access to an electronic leak detector - if it starts screaming when you put the sensing tip by the compressor crank seal or at a hose connection, you stop and have a pro look at the car. If the leak is very small and not economical to fix, with R134 you leave it alone. With R-12, you have to get pickier. >Far too many systems have had added damage from improper repair >attempts...... what could have been an expeditious repair is turned into a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >that brought about the demise of R12..... If we fail to learn from history, >we are doomed to repeat it... The Kyoto Protocol is a joke - we should be conserving, recovering and recycling refrigerants simply because it's the Right Thing To Do, not because we are forced to based on some dubious science. R-12 and other CFC's and HCFC's are still widely available (and widely vented to the atmosphere) in the third world. The trick is to find something that works better before we throw out the old materials and methods. R-12 is still the best solution (overall system efficiency and ease of use) for automotive AC - R-134 certainly does work, but not as well. And it's horrid for a system conversion, you need more evaporator and condenser core area for the same overall system BTUH capacity. And it's getting nuts in the Commercial Refrigeration field - they've got at least two dozen totally different refrigerants being thrown into service, each one with it's own advantages and problems. Gone are the days when you could carry a bunch of R-22 and one bottle of R-502 for the oddball Carrier, and cover any system you ran across. >Now... I'm going to sit back and wait for the first self righteous bastuhd >to tell me it is "his" air I am breathing and it is his choice as to whether >or not he will foul it... Don't look at me... I think the science is bunk and we can't release enough CFC's into the atmosphere to make a difference, especially when you compare it to the millions of tons of that stuff coming out of just one big volcanic eruption - but I'll still follow the rules on the off chance that we eventually find out I'm wrong. By the time they can prove a real connection and actual damage, it might well be far too late to do anything about it. --<< Bruce >>-- I liked everything you were saying until the last paragraph or so.... We have NO CHOICE when it comes to a volcanic eruption... this is something we cannot change, avert, alter, defer, avoid, mitigate, delay or stop..... However, when it comes to intentionally releasing this stuff into the atmosphere, we have every opportunity to "change, avert, alter, defer, avoid, mitigate, delay or stop" the process.... Here are two statements - "The volcano released bad stuff into the air.... so I did it too.". "The volcano was going to burn down my neighbours house, but I did it first....". There should be no need, what-so-ever, to mandate environmental responsibilty - yet, even WITH legislation - environmental resposnibility seems to be a poorly received concept. >>Actually, the better method is to recover the system and apply a deep >>vacuum.... allow the system to "rest" while observing any vacuum drop. It [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- |
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