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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / November 2006

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1999 Ford Taurus blower motor question.

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ANTHONY DIODATI - 12 Nov 2006 18:44 GMT
Hi all
We have/had (it's coming back nt. week) a 99 Taurus in the shop,with no
speeds at all on the blower motor.
Customer tested the blower motor,by " hot wiring" it,and so did I.
Him and hid dad tested the resistor with an Ohm meter and said it "seemed"
to be OK.
I was checking it out, but I had my way of thinking wrong,as I was looking
for power to come OUT of the switch, and TO the resistor.
I found no power TO the resistor,and checked all the fuses under the hood,
and all were good.
Doing a Google search,I am finding My way of thing was wrong,
But that with the A/C or heater select switch on,I should have power to one
side of the blower motor ,and then the power goes through the resistor to
the speed switch through the ground.
(0r something like that....LOL)

Well I an not getting power to the blower motor,but I did hot wire the one
side of the blower motor, and then I have all my speeds,So I think I can
safely assume my motor,resistor,and switch are OK.
I don't have a wiring diagram,so I don't know what to check next.
I wanted to check for power to the A/C or heater select switch ,but I cant
get the radio panel off,I did put the "release tools"(made out of coat
hanger wires) in the 4 holes, but it would not come out, and I did not want
to break anything.
Any other Ideas where to check for my power to my blower motor?
               Thanks, Tony
Jim Warman - 12 Nov 2006 20:07 GMT
Tony.. it sounds like you are doing this stuff for a living.... If this is
so, then do us ALL a favour. Spend some time learning about things before
you start experimenting on your customers...... Without the appropriate
wiring diagrams at hand, you are going nowhere with electrical repairs...

And now the part you didn't sign on for... I am sick and f.cking tired of
know-nothing hacks using customers as guinea pigs... public esteem of this
trade is in the god-damned toilet because someone is going to expect to be
paid for umpteen hours of f.cking around whan all that was needed was three
simple f.cking voltage drop tests.... public esteem of this trade is in the
toilet because some hack is willing to work for half the door rate but
charge twice as many hours.... and the customer is going to walk away
thinking "mechanics are all thieves that know nothing"....

Ford heaters have been ground side switched since at least the 60s... your
second volt drop test would have shown you that. Having the manuals you NEED
to conduct business would have shown you that...

The content of your post and your attitude have me totally incensed... and
you're not even smart enough to realize that there are on line groups
comprised of techs that can keep you from having to ask your potential
customers how to fix their cars!!!!! Google i-ATN for starters... they seem
to let anyone in any more....

f.ck, I am mad.... It's been a long time since I've been this mad.... People
think I'm a dork because some guy that bought a test lamp thinks he's a
tech!!!!!

f.ck, did I say I'm mad???

Anyone that has been screwed over by a backwater hack is NOT allowed to
flame me... all others, feel free...

> Hi all
> We have/had (it's coming back nt. week) a 99 Taurus in the shop,with no
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Any other Ideas where to check for my power to my blower motor?
>                Thanks, Tony
ANTHONY DIODATI - 12 Nov 2006 20:43 GMT
Thanks for your thoughts,
Jim, are you a automotive tech.?
1st Of All I didn't charge this dude anything for "experimenting " on his
car, further more he is a buddy of mine,
And yes,I might be able to find some wiring diagrams on line,
But also I work for a company that won't spend 1 dime on
equipment,training, books or manuals.
But one thing for sure, this company I work for, and my self DO NOT "screw
any one over" I've seen that, guys that will paint customers parts and sell
them back to them, and so on.
We are at least honest, Thank You!
Furthermore,I did not "ask" my  buddy how to fix his car, He told me what
they had done.
And if the three voltage tests are so simple,why don't you help me out and
explain it to me instead of making assumptions you have no evidence to base
them on. You know what the say about
ASS-U-ME........LOL
Would you be kind enough to answer me this, you say,"Ford heaters have been
ground side switched since at least the 60s".
Does GM work the other way, IOW positive side switched?

Do you know of a web site that would help me then?

PS this is why I am here, and on line, Is trying to learn.
And If I can help someone I will.

I will take what you said as a good thing,and try to learn from it
         Thanks, Tony

> Tony.. it sounds like you are doing this stuff for a living.... If this is
> so, then do us ALL a favour. Spend some time learning about things before
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> > Any other Ideas where to check for my power to my blower motor?
> >                Thanks, Tony
Jeff - 12 Nov 2006 21:36 GMT
> Thanks for your thoughts,
> Jim, are you a automotive tech.?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> But also I work for a company that won't spend 1 dime on
> equipment,training, books or manuals.

Why do you work for  this company?

Find a job with a real company.
<...>
ANTHONY DIODATI - 12 Nov 2006 22:41 GMT
Look, If you cant Help f.ck Off

> > Thanks for your thoughts,
> > Jim, are you a automotive tech.?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Find a job with a real company.
> <...>
Jim Warman - 13 Nov 2006 00:32 GMT
Anthony... for nearly 40 years I have been in this trade.... Currently I am
the shop foreman for a growing dealership... 7 bays at present with 7 more
on the way...

Now, I do want to apologize for "going off" like that.... but, man.... I
can't find words for what it makes me think and feel....

I realize that you must be young and new to this trade so allow me to offer
some advice....

First and foremost.... the modern automobile is built around electronics. A
tech needs a sound basic knowledge of electricity, it's principles, proper
testing, selecting the proper test and deciphering test results.  Get a good
quality DMM and learn how to use it properly.... Three voltage drop tests
are all that is required to almost isolate the concern.... know when to set
the DMM aside and use an incandescent test lamp or a powered, low impedance
test lamp or even a sealed beam headlight with test leads attached - each
and every one of these tools has a use - depending on what we are doing will
have us select the appropriate "weapon". Without a solid knowledge of
electrical, a tech will be doomed to guessing, wasting time and will be
denied the "cat bird seat". In Canada, we have an apprenticeship porogram
that takes care of things like this... in the US, you will likely have to
attend a college or trades school but this knowledge is vital if you desire
to be  a good tech.

Second... documentation.... Without the manuals, everything is going to be a
guess.... very possibly an expensive guess.... If I feel that I am
unfamiliar with an electrical circuit, I look at the wiring diagram first...
Thursday, one of my junior techs came to me.... he had over two hours into
an ABS light.... I had him show me where he was in the pinpoint test.... a
glance at the circuit diagram and I had him look at all the connectors in
that circuit with the advice of which connector I would look at first... the
growing green death told the story. It was a retail job so we tried cleaning
and protecting the connections rather than replacing harnesses... One happy
customer. Knowing how the circuit works is a prerequisite for repairing it
in a timely and efficient manner.

Sticking with 'documentation' for a bit.... todays engines and such are
pretty "high strung" compared to their older brothers.... Proper assembly
techniques and close attention to torquing fasteners is more important than
ever... and is only going to become more important in the future. Workshop
manuals will guide us through these techniques and show us when and where we
will require special tools.....

And that brings us to tools.... A good DMM, specialty tools as required by
our "customer base", a good and capable scan tool and the time to "play"
with it in order to understand it's capabilities (as well as our own). We
should regard our manuals as "tools", as well... Without them we might as
well be without a hammer or a ratchet...

Fourth (tools was third, OK?)... knowledge.... we should endeavour to gain
knowledge from any source we can. Aftermarket manufacturers often have FAQs
on their websites... auto parts stores often have some sort of teaching aids
on their websites NAPA, I am sure, is one.... KEM used to have some stuff on
their weebsite... others are likely similar. SnapOn and MAC offer courses...
yes, they are usually thinly disguised sales seminars - but there is
knowledge to be gained... and knowledge is truly power... Knowledge....
build a simple circuit with a lamp a switch and a battery... practice with
your DMM on this circuit... add a resistor to some point in the circuit to
learn what happens when a wire or terminal corodes... put the swtich in the
hot side to see how it works (DMM-wise) put the switch in the ground side
(few automotive circuits are power side switched on late models) and see how
that looks on the DMM. Good shop manuals include a subsection in each
section called "Description and operation".... put down the Spiderman
comic - lay Dean Koontz and Tom Clancy to the sode... read "descrition and
operation" until your eyes hurt. Join i-ATN... read the forums.. check out
the areas of the site that you are allowed to view... BATauto has some
decent stuff. Look around... there's some good stuff - by no means is it
everything you will need but it will be a decent start.

Now, this part could be "lastly" but there is a lot of things I haven't
mentioned... so we'll call it "next".... your employer... and yours is one
that needs a special sumthin' from the sound of it..... A good boss will
desire his techs to learn and improve... he will endeavour to find the
training that his techs need... he will give them the manuals they need and
have specialty tools available.... If he doesn't do this, you will remain
stuck in a dead end job.... you will never have the chance to be as good as
you can be.... and you wont advance in your chosen field. The rewards are
there to be had for a tech that is good at what he does and makes customers
happy.... I have two diesel certified techs that will make an obscene amount
of money this year because they are good at what they do and I am there to
ensure that our customers are happy.... and not a BG flush to be had... I
wont put up with that kind of crap...
ANTHONY DIODATI - 13 Nov 2006 00:53 GMT
> Anthony... for nearly 40 years I have been in this trade.... Currently I am
> the shop foreman for a growing dealership... 7 bays at present with 7 more
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> ensure that our customers are happy.... and not a BG flush to be had... I
> wont put up with that kind of crap...

Thanks Jim,
Sounds like a hell of a nice shop.

Yes, I am in a dead end job, and it will not change.
The garage is owned by a corporation, Who has no desire to spend any money
on training,or equipment.

(They are even talking about closing it down and making a bigger C- store
out of the Bay area.)

And it is run by my manager, who has no desire to change anything either.
He is content where he "is at" I am not.
I need to try to get myself into a dealership.

Thanks for your encouragement
    Tony
Jim Warman - 13 Nov 2006 05:29 GMT
Anthony... check out the Ford ASSET program.... (I think they call it that
in the US). Most of the manufacturers have something similar...

Yep... Google is our friend... http://www.fordasset.com/asset.html
ANTHONY DIODATI - 13 Nov 2006 00:34 GMT
>> Doing a Google search,I am finding My way of thing was wrong,
> But that with the A/C or heater select switch on,I should have power to one
> side of the blower motor ,and then the power goes through the resistor to
> the speed switch through the ground.
> (0r something like that....LOL)

I found this Post

From:  BOB URZ - view profile
Date:  Sun, Jul 14 2002 4:42 pm
Email:   BOB URZ <s...@inetnebr.com>
Groups:   alt.autos.ford
That should be helpful

Its pretty simple really. 12 volts from the fuse box goes to the heater A/C
selector switch. If either is on, it send the 12 volts to one side of the
blower motor. From the other side of the blower motor, it goes to the
resistor pack and speed switch, and then to ground. You need a volt
meter or test light to trace it out.  With the climate control switch on,
you should be reading voltage at the motor. If not, there is no power to
the switch (probably a fuse) or the switch is bad. If there is power to the
motor, either the motor is bad, the resistor pack is bad, or the ground on
the resistor pack is bad. If you have power to one side of the motor, you
can ground the other side. If the motor runs OK then (full speed), then its
the resistor pack, speed switch or ground connection.

The flat side of the motor connector comes from the A/C selector switch.
the rounded side goes to the resistor pack and blower speed switch.
BOB

So I will have to check for power In to and out of the heater A/C selector
switch.

Thanks for the post Bob.
  Tony
Backyard Mechanic - 13 Nov 2006 23:02 GMT
>>> Doing a Google search,I am finding My way of thing was wrong,
>> But that with the A/C or heater select switch on,I should have power
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> resistor to the speed switch through the ground.
>> (0r something like that....LOL)
-snip-

> So I will have to check for power In to and out of the heater A/C
> selector switch.
>
> Thanks for the post Bob.
>    Tony

Tony.... you're one of the good guys.  Knew the minute I read your OP,
that Warman was gonna lite you up... but as you now know, it's not your
fault.  
He's fighting a battle from the middle.  One side, stupid know-nothing
'techs' and the guys who run their shops.
And the other side, dumbass know-nothing customers who dont realize how
complicated any technology is and if someone charges more than 1.98 to
fix it claim they been ripped off.

Well, just like with medical problems, I found I better learn enough to
do my own diagnosis or at least get the facts.

When you leave your job for one with a future, the situation will get
worse for those customers coming to your shop ut there's nothing can be
done except let them lose customers..

BTW.. I got BACK into cars, thirty years after stopping playing with
them, because they became electronified!  
And every one of the mechs around my area amazed me with their lack of
knowledge on engine controls... and I never could get carbs adjusted
right.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

ShoeSalesman - 15 Nov 2006 16:44 GMT
>>>> Doing a Google search,I am finding My way of thing was wrong,
>>> But that with the A/C or heater select switch on,I should have power
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> knowledge on engine controls... and I never could get carbs adjusted
> right.

electronified? Is that a word?

what's a carb? Is it something like a vinyl record? :)
ANTHONY DIODATI - 15 Nov 2006 23:51 GMT
> >>>> Doing a Google search,I am finding My way of thing was wrong,
> >>> But that with the A/C or heater select switch on,I should have power
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> what's a carb? Is it something like a vinyl record? :)

Thanks Backyard Mechanic

> electronified? Is that a word?
No, But I think it should be.........LOL
 Tony
 
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