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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / January 2007low temps-low sulpher diesel
What's up with low temps and the new EPA required low sulfur diesel fuel? The temps here dropped to about -10. The next day, the Public schools had a big problem with 30 or 40 buses that would not start. Seems the new fuel is much more prone to gelling and problems when it gets cold. Why would the EPA require fuel that wont work without excessive additives in cold weather? Bob > What's up with low temps and the new EPA required low sulfur diesel fuel? > The temps here dropped to about -10. The next day, the Public schools had [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bob It doesnt take a large concentration of pour point depressant, wax inhibitor to improve diesel in general, but -10 degrees (Farenheit??) is pushing chemical treatment. . It sounds to me like the school got supplied with summer diesel and the cold weather pushed it past its limit. > > What's up with low temps and the new EPA required low sulfur diesel fuel? > > The temps here dropped to about -10. The next day, the Public schools had [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It sounds to me like the school got supplied with summer diesel and the cold > weather pushed it past its limit. here is one link to the story: http://www.ketv.com/news/10760600/detail.html?treets=oma&tid=2652581037813&tml=o ma_7am&tmi=oma_7am_1_07000201172007&ts=H supposedly, they were using an additive package. But i guess not enough to keep the fuel from jelling. SOme of the busses they did get started stalled on the streets from fuel jelling. Bob supposedly, they were using an additive package. But i guess not enough to keep the fuel from jelling. SOme of the busses they did get started stalled on the streets from fuel jelling. Bob Probably the additive was not adequate to the temperature drop. On these chemicals, they usually work at a certain concentration level, but adding more might not buy you any protection. Different chemistries may give better protection at these low temperature levels, with certain fuels. It is not an exact science but is usually optimized for a particular fuel and expected temperature levels. The diesel fuel supplier adds it, although you can buy different additives locally, and they may, or may not, be effective. At some temperature level, all these chemicals may prove ineffective, and the only remedy is to decrease the waxy components of the diesel fraction at the refinery. At any rate, these are the trials and tribulations of living in 'cold country' Best regards It's is the fuel and it isn't the fuel... We are using ULSD fuel and we just came off of a week straight of -30ish weather. Sunner fuewl is summer fuel and it's wax point just isn't suitable for lower temps. If you guys are looking for someone to point the finger at, point the finger at your supplier. > It's is the fuel and it isn't the fuel... We are using ULSD fuel and > we just came off of a week straight of -30ish weather. Sunner fuewl is > summer fuel and it's wax point just isn't suitable for lower temps. > > If you guys are looking for someone to point the finger at, point the > finger at your supplier. heck at -30 F even straight #1 will jell with this ulsd. It has been a major headeach and you will hear more complaining about yet I bet. KB  SignatureThunder Snake #9 "Protect" your rights or "lose" them. All I know is what I see on a daily basis.... Here in northern Alberta, our producers and suppliers have a good handle on what we need for life in the oil patch. And it has been years since I last heard of anyone having gelling concerns with locally purchased fuel. With three of us diesel techs booked two weeks in advance, some PSDs sit out back for quite some time... again, with no gelling concerns. We both live in different areas... what you experience is not necessarily what I will experience. In our area, we do not have #1 diesel and #2 diesel... filling stations have only one diesel pump and diesel is seasonally adjusted between winter and summer.... Works for us... > All I know is what I see on a daily basis.... Here in northern Alberta, our > producers and suppliers have a good handle on what we need for life in the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > only one diesel pump and diesel is seasonally adjusted between winter and > summer.... Works for us... But is Canada under the same refiner requirements that the EPA puts on USA diesel distribution? Bob >> In our area, we do not have #1 diesel and #2 diesel... filling stations have >> only one diesel pump and diesel is seasonally adjusted between winter and >> summer.... Works for us... > > But is Canada under the same refiner requirements that the EPA puts > on USA diesel distribution? They have cars in Canada? Wow! When did that happen? :P Signaturekai - theperfectreign@yahoo.com www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com www.filesite.org || www.donutmonster.com linux - because friends don't let friends use windows > They have cars in Canada? > > Wow! When did that happen? :P A few years ago. It was part of NAFTA. Don't you read the papers? They were required to buy many of the Ford and GM products that have been built there for the last 60 years or so. The Canadians were worried about "imports" built there but not designed there. The populace decided that those import job loses were acceptable at the expense of existing Canadian Automaking jobs. They were quickly invaded by the "import" market and still don't have cars of Canadian design or manufacture. All of their cars are "offshore". Pretty sad, since the Canuks could very likely build a car that would rival their US neighbors for use in extreme weather. >> They have cars in Canada? >> >> Wow! When did that happen? :P >> > A few years ago. It was part of NAFTA. I see... which is why my '06 Avalanche was built in Mexico. > Don't you read the papers? Newspapers? What's that? > They > were required > to buy many of the Ford and GM products that have been built there for > the last 60 years or so. Ahh, I see, eh. So they have the Ford Eh-150 and the Chevy Impalleh. > The Canadians were worried about "imports" > built there but not designed there. The populace decided that those [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > rival their US > neighbors for use in extreme weather. They don't call it the Frozen North for nothing! Signaturekai - theperfectreign@yahoo.com www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com www.filesite.org || www.donutmonster.com linux - because friends don't let friends use windows > They have cars in Canada? > > Wow! When did that happen? :P I hate to surprise you but many of your USA cars are made in Canada, both big 2.5 and "foreign" makes. Some NA sold models are only made in Canada, such as the Chrysler 300. The Chevy Impala and earlier, the Lumina were both built in Canada. Roy >> They have cars in Canada? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > both big 2.5 and "foreign" makes. > Some NA sold models are only made in Canada, such as the Chrysler 300. The Chevy Impala is still built here. As is the Silverado, and the soon-to-be-started Camaro. The Oshawa, Ontario plant is the #1 plant in North America, and that includes all plants, both Domestic and Foreign. > The Chevy Impala and earlier, the Lumina were both built in Canada. > Roy [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> both big 2.5 and "foreign" makes. >> Some NA sold models are only made in Canada, such as the Chrysler 300. > The Chevy Impala is still built here. As is the Silverado, and the > soon-to-be-started Camaro. The Oshawa, Ontario plant is the #1 plant in > North America, and that includes all plants, both Domestic and Foreign. True, Knight, but sulfur is NOT spelled 'sulpher'. Americans normally use the spelling 'sulfur'. Brits spell it 'sulphur'. 'Sulpher' is total illiteracy >> The Chevy Impala is still built here. As is the Silverado, and the >> soon-to-be-started Camaro. The Oshawa, Ontario plant is the #1 plant in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > 'Sulpher' is total illiteracy I'm sorry HLS, you have completley lost me. > >> The Chevy Impala is still built here. As is the Silverado, and the > >> soon-to-be-started Camaro. The Oshawa, Ontario plant is the #1 plant in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I'm sorry HLS, you have completley lost me. Since this thread started, the Subject was 'low temps-low sulpher diesel' That spelling just started irking me. It wasnt you who started it, and I didnt mean to be pedantic about it, but it finally just got under my skin. >> >> The Chevy Impala is still built here. As is the Silverado, and the >> >> soon-to-be-started Camaro. The Oshawa, Ontario plant is the #1 plant [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > didnt > mean to be pedantic about it, but it finally just got under my skin. Lol. Sorry 'bout that. I didn't even notice it. In the 7 or so newsgroups I post to, there are so many spelling mistakes I barley notice them anymore. I did change it this time though ;-) >> The Chevy Impala is still built here. As is the Silverado, and the >> soon-to-be-started Camaro. The Oshawa, Ontario plant is the #1 plant in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > 'Sulpher' is total illiteracy Totally illiteracy would be spelling the word in such a way that you had no idea what word was meant. This wass a sily speling mistacke. Biig deel. People obviously knew what the OP meant. People didn't bring up the fact that you used the wrong quotes (you should have used double quotes) or that the closing quotes belong outside the period ('sulphur.' instead of 'sulphur'.). When you are able to type without making any mistakes, please let us know. There might even be someone who cares. Jeff > There might even be someone who cares. > > Jeff Were you the illiterate that posted it, Jeff? >> There might even be someone who cares. >> >> Jeff > > Were you the illiterate that posted it, Jeff? The OP is not me. However, neither I nor OP is illiterate. Jeff > The OP is not me. However, neither I nor OP is illiterate. > > Jeff Since you apparently know the OP, maybe you can counsel him on spelling. > What's up with low temps and the new EPA required low sulfur diesel fuel? > The temps here dropped to about -10. The next day, the Public schools had [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bob The EPA, like most of government, does not consider the "real world" consequences of its actions, only what looks good on paper. This topic has already been addressed on rec.autos.tech.. The issue is more likely related to the wax content of the diesel in question, and the level of treatment with pour point depressant chemistry. By the way, the accepted spelling in the USA is 'sulfur', and in the UK and perhap related countries they still use 'sulphur'. |
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