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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / November 2007

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Antilock brake Explorer

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origdirtyoldman - 15 Nov 2007 06:56 GMT
Yes, I know that the Anti-lock brake light is a touchy subject for
this group.

I bought a used 91 Explorer.  The light comes on during startup then
goes out (passes self test?).  About a minute later it comes back on
reguardless if the truck is parked, running, use the brakes, or don't
and I can lock the back wheels up.

No error code in the computer.  I fixed the 3rd brake light.  The gear
on the diff is fine.  I replaced the sensor.  The old one was also a
replacement (looks like I'm not the first trying to fix it).  The RABS
cable seems good.

So the next swap out is the control box behind the dash.  I found a
couple of modules and none have any markings.   Does anyone know what
the antilock control module looks like?
Jeff - 15 Nov 2007 12:36 GMT
> Yes, I know that the Anti-lock brake light is a touchy subject for
> this group.
>
> I bought a used 91 Explorer.  The light comes on during startup then
> goes out (passes self test?).

Read your owner's manual.

The answer is that yes, the ABS goes through a self test, and the light
goes out.

But don't trust me. Trust the owner's manual. If you don't have one, get
one at a Ford dealer.

>  About a minute later it comes back on
> reguardless if the truck is parked, running, use the brakes, or don't
> and I can lock the back wheels up.

That tells you that the antilock brakes are not working.

Take the vehicle to someone who knows how to fix it if you want it
fixed, like a mechanic or Ford dealer with a good service department.

> No error code in the computer.  I fixed the 3rd brake light.  The gear
> on the diff is fine.  I replaced the sensor.  The old one was also a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> couple of modules and none have any markings.   Does anyone know what
> the antilock control module looks like?

Yeah, a service department at a dealer where they have people who know
how to diagnose and repair these.

Jeff
Ted Mittelstaedt - 16 Nov 2007 05:59 GMT
> > Yes, I know that the Anti-lock brake light is a touchy subject for
> > this group.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> > couple of modules and none have any markings.   Does anyone know what
> > the antilock control module looks like?

Swapping out the control box is the stupist thing you can do.

Most likely it is an ABS sensor or the wiring to the sensor.  You won't know
which sensor it is unless you get the car scanned.

I had ABS on my van go on about a year ago.  I got it scanned.  The problem
was the right rear ABS sensor.  A new sensor from the dealer cost $115.  It
came with the sensor and about a dozen feet of cable that snaked around all
all over under the vehicle.  I replaced everything.  The problem turned out
to be
a small break in the ABS sensor wires about halfway along that cable.  I
would
never have been able to find it unless I had taken that entire cable out.
That
was why the automaker supplied the sensor plus cable.  Sometimes their parts
designers aren't stupid.

Ted
origdirtyoldman - 17 Nov 2007 06:11 GMT
To answer the questions:
Yes I have the owners manual and the Chiltons and the Haynes and the
TSB notices. It also says the lights comes on to test the lights.
Ford has also used Lucas charging systems in the past which ran
systems through idiot lights so systems failed when the lights burn
out.  When the antilock light goes out, does it really mean mean it
passed the test OR THAT IT FINISHED THE TEST???  The second time from
last I took a car to a Ford dealer, they fixed the problem and broke
two harness connectors doing it. An extra month in the shop.  The last
time I took a car to a Ford, I discovered that their highly trained
tech forgot to reconnect one of the rear brake adjusters (while going
down a mountain).  Since the repair is not under warranty why would I
want to go there?  Except to pay them $200 to replace the sensor and
have the problem come back a month later as listed in other messages.
But as you recommended I have taken it to two mechanics.  Both put it
on their diagnotic machines, returned it, and told me nothing found,
and don't stop in the rain unless I wanted to pay by the hour for them
to trouble shoot the system.  And I did take it to an "expert", my
brother-in-law who is a mechanic for a GM dealership and drives a
Bronco.  He can't get his antilock brake light to go out either. Oh by
the way, did I forgot to say that I am SAE certified. (So go back to
chatting about Toyota gas milage.)

Yes there is fluid in the master cylinder. I have never heard of
brakes locking up when they are out of fluid.  And the brake trouble
light is not coming on.

The codes were read with a snap-on reader.   It reads 2 and 3 digit
codes and displays sensors status which are repeated by the on-board
computer.

The '91 has RABS which only has one rotational sensor found on the
diff.  The sensor has been replaced twice.  However the cable may be
the problem. It would be simpler to test the cable from end to end
then pulling it out sections.  But that would mean finding the other
end of the cable (which is connected to the control module).  I have
found four modules behind the dash and none of their wiring matches
the sensor wiring nor what the wiring diagram shows the module's
wiring should be.  Since I don't want to figure out which is the
correct cable by running voltage though the sensor wiring because it
might damage the wiring on the hydrualic part of the system.  And
since the modules only have partial part numbers.  Would anyone know
what the antilock control module looks like?
aarcuda69062 - 17 Nov 2007 07:38 GMT
In article
<9d1d0b11-4e02-4ce7-b5e8-fc595e37837c@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.co
m>,
<snip>
> But as you recommended I have taken it to two mechanics.  Both put it
> on their diagnotic machines, returned it, and told me nothing found,
<snip>
> The codes were read with a snap-on reader.   It reads 2 and 3 digit
> codes and displays sensors status which are repeated by the on-board
> computer.

The ABS system on a 91 Explorer has absolutely NO capability to
communicate with a computer, a diagnostic machine, a scan tool or
a reader no matter who makes it.
The procedure for extracting codes is to jumper the shorting pin
to ground and count the flashes of the ABS light.  
(blink-blink-blink-blink-blink-blink = code 6 for example)
Given what you've described so far, it's no wonder no one has
been able to pull a code for you, for whatever reasons, they
haven't managed to read and understand the procedures.
Once you have the trouble codes retrieved, diagnosis is plain old
volt and ohm testing with a DVOM.

<snip>

> did I forgot to say that I am SAE certified.

Sorry, there is no such thing.

> Yes there is fluid in the master cylinder. I have never heard of
> brakes locking up when they are out of fluid.  

At its literal description, it most certainly will; wheel
cylinder leaks, shoes are soaked and contaminated, that wheel
will lock on wet pavement, the master cylinder may be low or
empty (out of fluid).

Also, being low on brake fluid does set off a switch that when
triggered will turn on the brake circuit warning light and block
other ABS code extractions.
aarcuda69062 - 15 Nov 2007 15:07 GMT
In article
<4f9ba93b-1da5-4194-8ab1-3a731ddf6661@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com
>,

> Yes, I know that the Anti-lock brake light is a touchy subject for
> this group.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> No error code in the computer.  

Who checked for error codes and exactly how did they do it?
(be VERY specific)

> I fixed the 3rd brake light.  The gear
> on the diff is fine.  I replaced the sensor.  The old one was also a
> replacement (looks like I'm not the first trying to fix it).  The RABS
> cable seems good.

Is the master cylinder full?

> So the next swap out is the control box behind the dash.  I found a
> couple of modules and none have any markings.   Does anyone know what
> the antilock control module looks like?
newman - 15 Nov 2007 18:22 GMT
my ABS light came on and stayed on.  dealer replace a an ABS sensor, but I
don't know all of the details.

it wasn't a high cost repair.

2000 Explorer Ltd
Yes, I know that the Anti-lock brake light is a touchy subject for
this group.

I bought a used 91 Explorer.  The light comes on during startup then
goes out (passes self test?).  About a minute later it comes back on
reguardless if the truck is parked, running, use the brakes, or don't
and I can lock the back wheels up.

No error code in the computer.  I fixed the 3rd brake light.  The gear
on the diff is fine.  I replaced the sensor.  The old one was also a
replacement (looks like I'm not the first trying to fix it).  The RABS
cable seems good.

So the next swap out is the control box behind the dash.  I found a
couple of modules and none have any markings.   Does anyone know what
the antilock control module looks like?
KC - 16 Nov 2007 01:01 GMT
On Nov 15, 12:56 am, origdirtyoldman <origdirtyold...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Yes, I know that the Anti-lock brake light is a touchy subject for
> this group.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> couple of modules and none have any markings.   Does anyone know what
> the antilock control module looks like?

I had the same problem with same symptoms.  It was the sensor in the
differential - a relatively high failure item due to it's
environment.  Easy & cheap to fix.

KC
Picasso - 16 Nov 2007 02:24 GMT
> On Nov 15, 12:56 am, origdirtyoldman <origdirtyold...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> KC

ABS is a curse in the snow... my ecu needs to be replaced, and i wont
bother.. the ABS is useless to me
Ashton Crusher - 26 Nov 2007 01:39 GMT
>Yes, I know that the Anti-lock brake light is a touchy subject for
>this group.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>couple of modules and none have any markings.   Does anyone know what
>the antilock control module looks like?

More likely is that the RABS valve (on the frame rail near the fuel
filter) has gone bad and needs to be replaced.
 
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