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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / February 2008

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Alternator Doesn't Work

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The Doctor - 25 Feb 2008 14:11 GMT
The RAC mechanic that rescued me off the intersection last week told me that
although my battery was fine, it was dead flat because the alternator isn't
charging the battery at all. In the middle of a busy interesction, that was
all he obviously had time to assess.
My question ... with the battery fully charged on a bench top charger,
assuming I don't use the head lights etc, how far could I expect to drive
without the alternator working before I run into trouble? I need to drive 10
kms there, 10 back again on a daily basis. If I recharged the battery every
night on a bench top charger, would I be able to do that? The car is an 88
model Ford Laser if it makes a difference.
Jeff - 25 Feb 2008 16:24 GMT
> The RAC mechanic that rescued me off the intersection last week told me that
> although my battery was fine, it was dead flat because the alternator isn't
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> night on a bench top charger, would I be able to do that? The car is an 88
> model Ford Laser if it makes a difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Laser

The Ford Laser was rebadged Maxda 323, sold as the Mercury Tracer and I
think Escort in the US. The Ford Laser was sold in Australia, Africa,
New Zealand, Asia and South America.

Anyway, you can probably drive for about an hour without a working
alternator. However, your battery is not designed as a deep-cycle
battery. If you recharge and discharge your battery on a daily basis,
you're going to wear out the battery.

Your question: If I recharged the battery every night on a bench top
charger, would I be able to do that?

In theory yes. In practice, you're going to ruin the battery and maybe
need to replace the battery cables and terminals. In addition, powering
up and down the electrical system like that every day is not good for
it. You need to replace the alternator or you're going to run into more
problems.

Jeff
Mike hunt - 25 Feb 2008 17:07 GMT
I worked at Ford up until 1986.  I was a member of the design team, working
on crumple zones, for the Escort, first and second models.

Contrary to what many believe, the ONLY Mazda based chassis, albeit with a
different body, sold by Ford in the US was the first Mercury Tracer, build
from 1988 until 1990.  ALL later Tracers and ALL of the Escorts were
designed by Ford engineers and built primarily in the US and some Mexico.
They did use some Mazda designed components, in some models, however.

>> The RAC mechanic that rescued me off the intersection last week told me
>> that although my battery was fine, it was dead flat because the
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Jeff
Jeff - 25 Feb 2008 18:34 GMT
> I worked at Ford up until 1986.  I was a member of the design team, working
> on crumple zones, for the Escort, first and second models.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>>
>> Jeff

It would be great if you could use your knowledge to update this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Tracer
Mike hunt - 25 Feb 2008 22:02 GMT
>> I worked at Ford up until 1986.  I was a member of the design team,
>> working on crumple zones, for the Escort, first and second models.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> http://en..org/wiki/Mercury_Tracer
Mike hunt - 25 Feb 2008 22:03 GMT
You are free to believe whatever you choose.  Just because a site like
Wikipedia gathers information does not mean what they gather is necessarily
correct.  If you want the facts do a search of the industries bible,
Automotive News.      ;)

As to setting sources straight I did write to Motor Trend at one point early
on, when they published disinformation about the 91 Escort being Mazda
based.  Although many of my letters, to buff mags over the years have been
published, by MT and others, MT did not publish that correction or even
acknowledge it receipt.

I guess they don't like their opinions to be challenged since they never
changed their view, even though Ford sent them the same correction stating
that the Escort was not based on 323.  In one later article when MT said it
was based on the 323, they did say "Ford says is it is not, wink, wink."  If
you doubt what I'm telling you, go to a Mazda dealer and try to by a major
'91 to '99 Escort/Tracer body part.   Not even the windshields were common
to both.

Anyone who knows anything about the business knows Mazda did not have
anything near the capacity to build enough components to meet Escort/Tracer
sales volumes.  The fact is we designed the chassis that was adapted for use
by Mazda, not the other way around.  The ONLY exception was the '88 to '90
model tracer but even that chassis and body was not common to any Mazda.
The ONLY engine that was a Mazda was it higher winding 1800 CC used in the
Escort GT with a manual tranny.   The Ford 1900 CC was used in all the other
Escorts and Tracers. Ford.   The only Escort built in Mexico was the
notchback four door and some excess wagon demand in the final years

>> I worked at Ford up until 1986.  I was a member of the design team,
>> working on crumple zones, for the Escort, first and second models.

>> Contrary to what many believe, the ONLY Mazda based chassis, albeit with
>> a different body, sold by Ford in the US was the first Mercury Tracer,
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Tracer
Bruce L. Bergman - 26 Feb 2008 05:35 GMT
>It would be great if you could use your knowledge to update this page:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Tracer

 I must apologize for Mr. My c.nt - excuse me, "Mike Hunt" (which is
a poor excuse for an anonymous name) - his Momma dropped him on his
head many times as a baby, he enjoyed it, and it certainly shows.

 Seems he is one of those 'Ugly Americans" you were warned about who
thinks that the USA exists in a vacuum and the rest of the world bows
down in fealty to us...  He is pathologically unable to notice that
you and The Doctor are in Australia, and there are vast differences
between what gets a Ford badge put on it down there (or in the rest of
the world) and what goes on in the United States.  

 And he claims to be a "Retired Ford Engineer", he claims to "Have
owned the USA's biggest cluster of new car dealerships" that has sold
practically every nameplate ever made.  He claims to own a winter
mansion in Key West FL, and lots of vintage expensive and rare cars...

 And a lot of other grandiose claims, most that have been thoroughly
debunked over the years - but no matter how many times we trap him in
bald-faced lies we still can't get him to Shut The f.ck UP.

 Okay, enough of that.  Moving on...

 You should be able to get a half hour to an hour of daytime driving
on a fully charged battery and a dead alternator.  15 to 30 minutes at
night because of the headlight loads, and two or three easy starts out
of a fully charged battery - but you can only do that about a dozen
times before the battery will start to go downhill fast and eventually
fail altogether from deep cycling.

 The chemistry of a normal Lead-Calcium (and sometimes Tin) starting
battery does not deal well with being drained more than 10% of nominal
capacity without being immediately recharged by the alternator during
driving.  

 A Lead-Antimony "Deep Cycle" or "Golf Cart" battery will handle the
same treatment more gracefully and give you several hundred cycles -
but they don't have that high of a cranking current rating, so don't
try it in a cold climate.

 And the Deep Cycle batteries also need to be charged up more-or-less
immediately when you are done using them, they don't like being left
discharged for more than a few hours and can suffer permanent damage
if left flat for too long.

 If you can't fix the alternator in your car yourself, charge the
battery fully at home overnight, take the charger with you, and make
one trip directly to your local mechanic or dealer for them to fix it.
And if they can't get to it immediately, put the battery charger on
the car to start recharging the battery ASAP.

 --<< Bruce >>--
scott21230@gmail.com - 26 Feb 2008 21:14 GMT
I have a similiar car, and I had no problem going 30 miles to work
with the only the car running, and the parking lights and windshield
wipers on.  I got a charge at work and made it home just fine, with a
stop at the auto parts store for a rebuilt alternator.

Don't use the headlights, front or rear defoggers, the stereo, or the
heat or air conditioning.

I would think that in your situation, you could easily charge the
battery every night and make it until the weekend just fine, but do
fix your car then.  Just keep junper cables in your car, just in
case.  Even better if you can charge the battery while at work.
aiiadict@gmail.com - 25 Feb 2008 16:29 GMT
> My question ... with the battery fully charged on a bench top charger,
> assuming I don't use the head lights etc, how far could I expect to drive
> without the alternator working before I run into trouble?

with a 4 cylinder VW I am able to go about 40 miles with a bad
alternator.

Turn on the headlights and you'll go about 10 minutes.  The headlights
are a huge drain on the battery.

Take that alternator out of your vehicle, open it up (should be about
1/4" hex head bolts), get the brushes out (sometimes it's a bit of a
puzzle, requiring 3 hands), go to your local alternator store, buy new
brushes (about $2.00 total) and put em back in...  should run fine

Another idea is to run the truck, and spray electrical contact cleaner
into the alternator... it could be that the brushes or (commutator?)
are
dirty and not allowing current to flow from the rotor to the
terminals..

Rich
rick505 - 25 Feb 2008 17:21 GMT
just take it out and get a rebuilt one. i dont mess around with trying to
rebuild them any more maybe it is the brushes or maybe the diod or treeo
or maybe a broken wire in the windings or voltage regulator. dont charge
it up every night and try to run it during the day and charge it at night
you will fry the battery.  dont mess around with it fix it wright you are
going to spend a lot more money doing it that way.  (new battery wires
might burn  starter may go bad) also it may leave you stranded again    

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.ford/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
aiiadict@gmail.com - 25 Feb 2008 17:49 GMT
> just take it out and get a rebuilt one. i dont mess around with trying to
> rebuild them any more maybe it is the brushes or maybe the diod or treeo
> or maybe a broken wire in the windings or voltage regulator.

 $2.00 for brushes and about 1 hour of work is a good try before you
spend $50 on a rebuild.  Although the diodes, windings, voltage
regulator
can go bad, the brushes are the only wearing part (besides the
bearings)
and are usually the cause of an alternator not outputting voltage.

Rich
 
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