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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / June 2008Check Engine light
No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when you start the truck and thus will not pass a smog check in CA. I'll be fixing this 1988 Ford Ranger P/U this weekend and having done some homework already, I still need a tip. As background this truck did have a problem where it just stalled out and wouldn't start again. That problem was traced to a wire harness that came loose and got burned on the manefold causing (at least) one of the wires to go open. Evidently the one needed to keep things running. That was fixed through visual inspection with a little help from a Ford explorer 1993 shop manual. Now I suspect the check engine light problem is the same cause (open wire in harness) only I don't know which wire to trace. I checked several repair guides and none show the check engine light and what wire it is associated with it. If I could just determine the color and connectors it runs through this would be easy. I'm not usually one to suspect conspiricy but really. WRT the ECC and associated sensors and idiot lights; Chiltons and Haynes only show a picture of some parts and say its too complicated to troubleshoot. OK expected. The FORD shop manuals for my 93 Explorer have a single page saying check the third manual (you don't have). The EVTM (electrical/vacuum troubleshooting manual) for the 84 Ranger (by ford again) shows most of the wires to the ECC but not the idiot light (check engine). If anyone has the ECC repair manual for just about any ford truck (ranger, bronco II, Explorer in the 1983 to 1993 range you can probably determine the wire color for me. Yes, I will check the bulb first. So far I have only visually traced the wire harness back to the ECC so it seems likely there is another open wire in there. My second option is to trace the wire from the lamp back to the open using a signal tracer (triplett fox and hound). That will work but at the cost of more effort. Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be excluded from most service manuals. >No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when you >start the truck and thus will not pass a smog check in CA. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be excluded >from most service manuals. Nope other than Haynes and Chiltons are not the first place I'd go for schematics. Check out www.eautorepair.net. It's the online version of Mitchell On Demand and has the *actual* schematics. You can buy one week, one month or one year subscriptions. One week is $10, I believe. I just got a one month subscription for one of my vehicles for $15.00. and you can print whatever you need to, although I'm not sure how you'd go about downloading anything. >>No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly >>when you >>start the truck and thus will not pass a smog check in CA. Does it come on if you force a code, like say unplug the engine coolant sensor once tghe engine is at operating temp. Whitelightning >>>No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when >>>you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Whitelightning I may try that but I suspect it will not. Seems like an easy test though. Its either the bulb (maybe a fuse), wire or controller and I will check them in that order. >>>>No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when >>>>you [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Its either the bulb (maybe a fuse), wire or controller and I will check > them in that order. I would not expect the Check light to be on its own fuse. It should get ground to turn on from the computer -- the pink wire -- If this is true, the pink wire should show 12v if the light works. >>>>>No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly >>>>>when you [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > ground to turn on from the computer -- the pink wire -- If this is true, > the pink wire should show 12v if the light works. That's exactly what I expect. I think the ECC gets power directly from the ECC relay which goes through a fusible link (from memory the EVTM book is at home right now) which if open would do a lot more than extinguish the lamp. But an other poster did indicate fuse position 10 so its easy enough to check, that's an open item since I have not found the diagram yet. My plan, remove dash, test bulb with DMM, test ground side connection with DMM, check for 12V on wire despite bulb. Connect FOX near bulb, trace wire with Hound to open (ideally) or back to ECC, verify ECC output with voltmeter. I see some ECC on eBay less than $50 incl shipping that should work for this vehicle and then there's pick and pull. Indecently I did a diagnosis like this about 10 years ago on a GMC blazer. In that case the ECC had a burned out pin on the control IC chip (verified through electrical bench testing) so it had to be replaced. Instead the bum of an owner for that car rigged a switch and manually faked the operation during the smog test. (A bum for more than just that lame act) >>>>>>No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly >>>>>>when you [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > bum of an owner for that car rigged a switch and manually faked the > operation during the smog test. (A bum for more than just that lame act) If the circuit works as I suspect, the bulb will get its power from a buss that powers other lamps in the same area, but will get its ground from the computer. If this is accurate, you should be able to feel 12v sitting on the pink wire all of the time, and the light should come on if you pull the pink wire to ground. You don't have to take the dash apart to test the bulb. You do have to take it apart to replace the bulb, but if there is 12v sitting on the pink wire, the bulb is good. ____________ 12v | | lamp | | / | ------------ GND In this really bad diagram, the computer is the position of the / and this represents the switching device that goes low to turn the lamp on. There should be 12v above this point all of the time. When the / turns into | (the switching device closes) then there will be 12v on one side of the lamp and GND on the other, and the lamp will come on. The switching device is not really a switch at all, but it does the same job, it provides ground to a lamp that has 12v sitting on it keeping it ready to be turned on. If there is not 12v sitting on the pink wire, the bulb is bad or the wire is broken between the lamp and the connector. I'd consider the lamp first, but you said that the wire bundel has already had a repair because it fell across the manifold or something like that. >>>>>>>No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly >>>>>>>when you [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > the lamp first, but you said that the wire bundel has already had a repair > because it fell across the manifold or something like that. I understand but that 12V source will have at least one protection device and maybe a relay between it and the battery. The switch in your diagram would be the ECC pin. Here are the wiring diagrams. http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId,1071901/initialAction,repairGuide/shopping/ repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c152800781b2 I have looked at every one and I can find no check engine light. Pin 20 is always black and grounded, fuse 10 is for general exterior lamps (if used, diagrams disagree) and I can find no pink wire on any diagram. I am not so confident in finding a pink wire anymore. These diagrams are very similar to the ones in the EVTM In any of the cases, it should be obvious as soon as I start probing the lamp. I have a clear plan of action when I start. I'll try to post results. Haven't looked at the truck in a few days. >>>>>>>>No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly >>>>>>>>when you [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > lamp. I have a clear plan of action when I start. I'll try to post > results. Haven't looked at the truck in a few days. Oops, there it is on the first diagram, Duh but only on that one, not sure which diagrams apply to this engine. I'll figure it out later. > Here are the wiring diagrams. > http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId,1071901/initialAction,repairGuide/shopping/ repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c152800781b2 > > I have looked at every one and I can find no check engine light. It's in the very first one that comes up. >> If the circuit works as I suspect, the bulb will get its power from a >> buss that powers other lamps in the same area, but will get its ground [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > lamp. I have a clear plan of action when I start. I'll try to post > results. Haven't looked at the truck in a few days. I found the Check Light on the diagram without any problem at all. http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c152800781b2 You are interested in Fuse 10, and Connector Pin 20 on the ECM. This is on the left side of the diagram, near the top. I don't recall the motor you have, so I selected the larger of the two 4 cyl options. >>> If the circuit works as I suspect, the bulb will get its power from a >>> buss that powers other lamps in the same area, but will get its ground [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > I don't recall the motor you have, so I selected the larger of the two 4 > cyl options. I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker next to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. I suspect that diagram only applies to the 83 model. I have the EVTM published by ford and nothing like the first diagram is included, the remaining diagrams match the EVTM very well. With no captions on the diagrams its partly guesswork. The engine is EFI and the controller is marked ECC IV. Can't hurt to try a fuse in #10 but I have little hope it will lead to a 1 minute fix. >>>> If the circuit works as I suspect, the bulb will get its power from a >>>> buss that powers other lamps in the same area, but will get its ground [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > Can't hurt to try a fuse in #10 but I have little hope it will lead to a 1 > minute fix. My mistake, I thought you had an 83 Ranger. >>>>> If the circuit works as I suspect, the bulb will get its power from a >>>>> buss that powers other lamps in the same area, but will get its ground [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > My mistake, I thought you had an 83 Ranger. My mistake again, the diagram covers up to the 1990 Ranger/Bronco II. >>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker next >>> to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > My mistake again, the diagram covers up to the 1990 Ranger/Bronco II. So now I am perplexed. I pulled the dash and checked the bulb, it was good and powered from the high side same as a few other lights that do work like the check oil lamp. Then I identified the wire (pink/lt green) and traced it back into the engine compartment to the first connector. I get good continuity to that connector. The wire color and lamp match the EVTM for the 1993 Explorer up to that point Now the crazy part, the mate to that connector has no wire in that pin location, no pin contact and the outside is plugged up so it was never there, not just broken. Furthermore, there is no PK/LG wire at the ECC or the self test connector as it would be if it continued to agree with the 93 diagram. Pin 17 of the ECC which should have that wire has a tan/red wire that leads to the self test connector same pin but I don't know if simply connecting those nodes will result in the check engine lamp working or just burning out the pin. I'll advise the owner to go back to the smog check place and try to prove there is no lamp. I bet that flees like a lead balloon. Maybe she can call and verify first. Given that I can't find any verified diagram showing the lamp, it might not actually be implemented. Can anyone conform or deny that? Anyone own a 1988 ford truck? >>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker next >>>> to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. I [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > showing the lamp, it might not actually be implemented. Can anyone > conform or deny that? Anyone own a 1988 ford truck? Why don't you just tie it in to another lamp, say the oil pressure, and call it good? >>>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker >>>>> next to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Why don't you just tie it in to another lamp, say the oil pressure, and > call it good? Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. Check engine should come on in run, stay on in start for a moment and then turn off. Its close but a good tech might spot the patch and fail the vehicle. Right now there is a free retest for this one thing. It must have passed for years like this. Im going to look into just wiring the lamp to where it should have been all along and see how that goes. Pin 17 of the ECC http://www.auto-diagnostics.info/ford_eec_iv I'll try that tomorrow. Did I mention this is not the original engine but I wouldn't expect this kind of difference from an engine swap. >>>>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker >>>>>> next to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > Did I mention this is not the original engine but I wouldn't expect this > kind of difference from an engine swap. If someone tried to take a computer from a different year and plug it into your 1988 wiring harness, yes, that would explain a lot. >> Did I mention this is not the original engine but I wouldn't expect this >> kind of difference from an engine swap. > > If someone tried to take a computer from a different year and plug it > into your 1988 wiring harness, yes, that would explain a lot. Yes it would ... For one thing, it would explain why there was not a wire on both halves of a connector ... >>>>>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker >>>>>>> next to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > If someone tried to take a computer from a different year and plug it > into your 1988 wiring harness, yes, that would explain a lot. That prompts me to check the VIN. That should tell me what the original motor was. It has EFI now. The swap was done so long ago its impossible to determine how much of the wiring was altered. > Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. Check > engine should come on in run, stay on in start for a moment and then turn [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Right now there is a free retest for this one thing. It must have passed > for years like this. You are starting to confuse me with you silliness. You are saying in this post that the tech will notice that the light's Self Test Cycle will be different, but in a different post you say that the owner can get away with telling the same tech that there is no Check Light on his truck? Are you trying to convince us that there are more incompetent people working on cars than you? I'm not buying it ... >> Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. Check >> engine should come on in run, stay on in start for a moment and then turn [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Are you trying to convince us that there are more incompetent people > working on cars than you? I'm not buying it ... There you go with that reading between the lines and getting angry stuff again. I prefer to make the lamp work correctly, I'm just musing about why I didn't like the wire it to the oil lamp solution, I'm not finished yet. There are some unexplained anomalies that might not throw off a professional automotive technician but if you want to come over and fix this POS for free then be my guest. To be fair, even a pro should not see this situation very often if ever, even a pro would wonder how it passed smog check last time with no evidence that the wire has been there for many years. Either the last smog check tech was incompetent (the "test only" shops really are more thorough), or there is another wire splice outside the cable bundle that failed that I have not found it yet (doubt it). The driver is too stupid to remember if it ever lit up and too poor to care so I have to play detective. I already posted my plan (connect pk/lg to t/r wire at test connector). Maybe tonight I can post the result. But first some voltage measurements, you don't think I would just guess without some testing to back it up. >>> Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. Check >>> engine should come on in run, stay on in start for a moment and then [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Maybe tonight I can post the result. But first some voltage measurements, > you don't think I would just guess without some testing to back it up. Okay, I finally finished. Well, at least as far as I care to. I connected the wires as planned and now the check engine light works more or less correctly. There was one thing. When started, the check engine light flashes for about 30 seconds (60 winks) and stops and stays off. That seems like an error code but I don't know if it will cause the smog check to fail. The owner plans to have it retested tomorrow and if it fails, then get the referee at the DMV to rule. Now that all the pieces have come together I should have mentioned that there were plenty of unused connectors coming from both the chassis and engine wire harnesses. That makes sense in light of the missing wire now. Anybody know what 60 flashes means as an error code? >>>> Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. Check >>>> engine should come on in run, stay on in start for a moment and then [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > There was one thing. When started, the check engine light flashes for > about 30 seconds (60 winks) and stops and stays off. It is not supposed to flash. It will cause a failure at the smog station. > That seems like an error code but I don't know if it will cause the smog > check to fail. The owner plans to have it retested tomorrow and if it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Anybody know what 60 flashes means as an error code? The 60 flashes mean nothing. An error flash will be a morse code sort of flash, kinda. The actual flash will be a series of a couple of flashes followed by a pause then more flashes, a pause, and more flashes. Then the sequence will repeat itself. Depending on the system the engineers employed, there are dozens of variations on what codes can be displayed. My Bronco could display a code such as 562. It would flash 5 times, pause, then flash 6 times and pause, then flash 2 times, then repeat. If the door was open or the AC was ON or the radio was working, there could be flashes for these items too. >>>>> Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. Check >>>>> engine should come on in run, stay on in start for a moment and then [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > then flash 2 times, then repeat. If the door was open or the AC was ON or > the radio was working, there could be flashes for these items too. It doesn't look like a diagnostic code to me either, flashing exactly like that I have never actually heard of. I understood that diag codes are two digit, shorter and usually require you to do something beyond start the car to see it. I suspect it will fail as well but I only set out to get the lamp working, not fix any new problems it reviels (BTW, the smog levels measured were all fairly low, the truck passes otherwise). I can check the operation of most of the sensors but beyond that I'm not sure where else to go. I disconnected the battery for a while so it shouldn't have any stored codes. The flashing might indicate a fundimental miswire. > >>>>> Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. Check > >>>>> engine should come on in run, stay on in start for a moment and then [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > lamp working, not fix any new problems it reviels (BTW, the smog levels > measured were all fairly low, the truck passes otherwise). I've read all your posts in this thread and I'm going to jump in with my $0.02. I know it is going to sound cruel and heartless - but you need to turn your back and walk away from this one. Your working on a vehicle that is a Frankenstein's monster. Just about everything made in '88 had a CEL. Does the vehicle have an O2 sensor, a catcon, and fuel injection or a computer-controlled carburetor? If it does, then it has an engine computer. And if it has an engine computer it has a CEL. If the vehicle has passing emissions, then -all- the vehicle -mechanical- systems having to do with emissions are good, -and- the engine computer is connected to a few critical sensors, o2/maf-map/tps and it's still controlling the fuel injection. But beyond that ALL bets are off. The computer in the vehicle could have a dozen other sensors it's supposed to be looking at data from that are either disconnected or are not even there, on account of the engine swap. If you ask me (and you didn't but I'm gonna tell you anyway) the day the CEL stopped working was the day that Clive finished the engine swap using implements he raided out of his wife's kitchen drawers. Who the hell knows how the vehicle survived this long after that - for all you know, the owner used to boff an aircare tech who let her through, and said tech finally made enough money to buy a pocket pussy. But how is irrelevant. This isn't your vehicle, and you are not helping the owner take responsibility for his or her life by letting them avoid responsibility for their vehicle that they own. This vehicle should have been sold off to someone in the sticks where they don't require IM testing, after Clive's engine swap. It has no fricken business running around in the middle of a metropolitian area, and whoever arrainged that to happen was completely irresponsible. These days the US is awash in used cars. Hell, I had the dickens of a time selling one of mine last week - and I'll tell you this. For a vehicle that everything other than the air conditioning worked in it, with good emissions, a set of rear tires with less than 2K miles on them, body straight and freshly washed and vacuumed, and 50K miles on a rebuilt engine which had been rebuilt by one of the best rebuilders in the area, do you want to know what I got for it? $550.00, that's what. It cost me more to insure the vehicle for a year than the vehicle is worth. Well at least I got the driveway space back. If you really want to help the owner, then go out there and help her find a really good, solid, everything working, used car for under $1K, and after it's titled in her name, just have her sign the release on the title and hold the title, and she can pay you $25 a month or whatever until it's paid off. And take her POS car now and sell it off. The difference remaining will probably put her owing you less than $500 and she can probably have that paid in a year. That's actually HELPING someone to get something better going in their life. What your doing now isn't helping, it's just bandaiding a rolling problem that she don't need to have f'ing up her life more right now. Ted >> >>>>> Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. > Check [quoted text clipped - 171 lines] > > Ted Thats reasonable advice but in CA you cannot legally sell a car without passing a smog check first so if it fails, it's the junk yard or non-op. I already give this welfare ho a place to live in, a TV to watch, a phone to talk on, and a fridge to put her food in (and some food for her daughter) and countelss tips on how to find a job. and she's not even my ho. I don't really want to front her the money for a car even a POS since her tab is already hopeless. (this all came up because the car she was using got repo'd). I'd cut her and her truck loose but I still care about keeping her from screwing up her daughters life. > >> >>>>> Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. > > Check [quoted text clipped - 174 lines] > Thats reasonable advice but in CA you cannot legally sell a car without > passing a smog check first List it on craigslist in Oregon or Nevada. Oregon does not have statewide IM testing, it is only in the cities, and the DMV doesen't give a damn about CA laws. And Nevada is also very easy to sell and register a car in and I don't think they have IM testing in all areas either. Trucks are still saleable in the sticks where there's no IM testing, at least, cheap ones are. How the buyer fetches the car is their business, most people just buy a bus ticket and drive it home. If it's running and priced cheap enough, someone will buy it. > so if it fails, it's the junk yard or non-op. I > already give this welfare ho a place to live in, a TV to watch, a phone to > talk on, and a fridge to put her food in (and some food for her daughter) > and countelss tips on how to find a job. and she's not even my ho. Ouch! > I don't > really want to front her the money for a car even a POS since her tab is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'd cut her and her truck loose but I still care about keeping her from > screwing up her daughters life. Well, right now she is teaching her daughter that it's OK to lie around and not get a job, and sponge off other people, if this keeps up her daughter's life is going to be screwed up anyway, just differently. So there are no easy choices either way. But it's easy to see what is going on here, I'm sure she is using the nonfunctional truck as an excuse not to look for a job. You have my sympathy, I've encountered leeches before in my life and they have a way of just taking and taking and taking more and more of your time, energy, and money, until one day you just can't stand it anymore, daughter or no daughter, the leech then jumps to another host. They almost have a sixth sense about who will make a suitable host. If she is under your roof with no job, then your instincts are right, giving her money is the worst thing you can do. Your best shot is applying a bit of parenting. Rent a storage locker, then go through your house and remove every last thing that smacks of "adult entertainment", that is, all TV sets, all radios, all fiction books, all magazines, in short, every last possible thing that could possibly serve as a diversion or provide amusement for an adult. Call your phone company and switch your landline phone over to "911 calls only" Stop working on her car. Tell her that when she gets a job on a bus line, you will bring back magazines into the house. When she holds the job for a month, you will turn the phone back on. When she holds it for 6 months you will bring back the TV set. And so on. If she pulls the passive agressive "I'll sit and do nothing" then ignore her. Trust me, they all think they can pull that and win, but they can't manage it, they don't have the discipline. Basically, you have a 25 year old child here, who wasn't raised properly by her own parents. Your going to have to do the raising. If she doesen't like it, tough, there's always the door. And don't allow her to continue to hold her daughter over your head as a kind of lever to keep the situation static. Her daughter isn't your responsibility, you can make it clear that daughter is welcome TO VISIT if she decides you have no right to tell her what to do and leaves. As for the car, you need to make it clear that the car is at the end of it's life. If she won't sign the title over so that you can dispose of it at a wrecker and at least get some money out of it, then call the local city and ask what the procedure is for getting junk cars towed. Make it clear that if it's towed she will get nothing, otherwise you will hold whatever the wrecker gives for it. And seriously, what YOU need is a parenting support group. There's bound to be at least one in the area. She may not be your kid, but it sounds like she is acting like a spoiled brat and it also sounds like you never had the pleasure of raising a spoiled brat (lucky you) and you don't have the tools to cope with it. Just keep this in the back of your mind. welfare ho knows she is taking you for a chump. She may not be smart enough to verbalize that, but she unconsciously knows it. Well, the fact is that people don't respect people who they can take advantage of, and so it is no wonder she is ignoring your advice. You absolutely have to grow a spine and start applying some tough love - I don't mean threatening to boot her out the door, I mean basically taking charge of her life for her, and telling her what to do, just like you would tell a 12 year old to go clean his room. You don't have to give her ultimatims, you just have to tell her to do something, then when she ignores it, you go get in her personal space and stand over her until she does it, just like your own mom stood over you to make you eat your peas. Her own mom never did that to her, which is why she is like she is, and deep down, she really needs someone to do that. Good luck! Ted > Thats reasonable advice but in CA you cannot legally sell a car without > passing a smog check first so if it fails, it's the junk yard or non-op. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd cut her and her truck loose but I still care about keeping her from > screwing up her daughters life. You MUST use the diagram for the Year, Make, and Model of the vehicle you are working on. You can fudge this a little bit by selecting a vehicle that uses the same vintage chassis, ie: Make and Model, but different Year if the body style of the Year you select and the Year you are working on is the same. You can not fix this problem on a Ranger by using the schematic from an Expedition, ANY Expedition. Since you are in California, the smog system MUST meeet the requirements for whichever is newer, the vehicle or the engine. If you have an 88, and drop in a motor from an 84, then you must bring the smog equipment of the motor UP to the 1988 spec. You have no choice in this. If you have an 88, and drop in a motor from a 94, then you have to bring the smog equipment of the vehicle UP to the 1994 spec. You have no choice in this. The smog equipment MUST be the newer of the motor or the vehicle. You can not reduce the newer motor to the old chassis, or the newer chassis to the old motor. When the engine transplant is complete, the smog system must be equal to the newest component. Autozone.com has schematics that show the '88 Ranger and clearly indicates the Check light. You are correct, one can not sell a car in CA unless it passes smog. This makes me wonder how you came to be in possession of this truck, it clearly is not able to pass smog -- it fails the visual test at the very least, and this means they won't even hook up the machine to sniff the exhaust. This car won't even get past the referee in a dispute. Pipedown, On your 88 Check engine light post It seems you are getting allot of opinions but no answers. I have a 91 Ranger with the 2.3 4 and I have most of the factory manuals plus other info. I may be able to assist. First, make sure the bulb is good on your check engine light. It should come on when you turn on the ignition and then go out shortly after the engine starts. If it stays on you have problems. e-mail me at fredzo@mchsi.com and I'll try to direct you as best I can. Fredzo > > Pipedown, > On your 88 Check engine light post > It seems you are getting allot of opinions but no answers. I gave him the answer over a week ago. > I have a 91 Ranger with the 2.3 4 and I have most of the factory manuals > plus other info. I may be able to assist. 91 is not even close... Until he actually looks at a wiring diagram for an 88 Ranger, he's spinning his wheels. > >> Pipedown, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > spinning his wheels. > Good point, things change from year to year so any other material would be useless. I suggest he looks at www.alldata.com, I got a subscription for my 91 with them and they have allot of very good info including the EEC IV management system. Fredzo >>>>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker >>>>>> next to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >Oil pressure is on only when the key is in the start position. Check engine >should come on in run, stay on in start for a moment and then turn off. No, the oil pressure light is on any time the key is on and the engine is not running, or the oil pressure is below minimum. If it is only on when cranking, you've got other problems. >Its close but a good tech might spot the patch and fail the vehicle. Right >now there is a free retest for this one thing. It must have passed for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Did I mention this is not the original engine but I wouldn't expect this >kind of difference from an engine swap. If the engine was from an older vehicle with no CEL and the harness was from the replacement engine? Perhaps? ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker next >>>> to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. I [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > showing the lamp, it might not actually be implemented. Can anyone > conform or deny that? Anyone own a 1988 ford truck? That won't work. The smog guy knows there is a lamp, and he will know that it does not work. > That won't work. The smog guy knows there is a lamp, and he will know that > it does not work. And the smog guy doesn't know what he doesn't know. That lamp isn't supposed to come on KOEO. That's how Ford designed the early EEC-IV systems... The OP should seek out the program referee if there is such a thing. >>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker next >>>> to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. I [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > get good continuity to that connector. The wire color and lamp match the > EVTM for the 1993 Explorer up to that point First of all, you are working on an '88 Ranger while using a schematic from a '93 Explorer. That's just dumb. You may as well fix a 747 wityh a Cesna manual, they're nearly the same because the both have wheels for landing, wings for flying, a vertical stabalizer, and two sets of controls in the cockpit. The main difference is the number of passengers they carry, but the wires should be the same. Several people posted a link to the Ranger/Bronco II that covers the year you are working on. Try using the correct diagram and see what happens. > Now the crazy part, the mate to that connector has no wire in that pin > location, no pin contact and the outside is plugged up so it was never [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > showing the lamp, it might not actually be implemented. Can anyone > conform or deny that? Anyone own a 1988 ford truck? I'm going to advise the owner to find a new mechanic if he asks. >>>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker >>>>> next to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > I'm going to advise the owner to find a new mechanic if he asks. You get real frustrated reading between the lines don't you? What I would really like is for someone who has that model or the EVTM from that exact year to factually confirm or deny some of the assumptions I have had to work with. But that guy is not online this week I guess :( >>>>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker >>>>>> next to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > from that exact year to factually confirm or deny some of the assumptions > I have had to work with. But that guy is not online this week I guess :( I'm frustrated that you use the equivelent of a 747 manual to fix your Cesna. You have been provided the exact schematic you need, but continue to use the one you have from a different year, make, and model truck than the truck you are working on. Your Ranger might say Ford on the grille, but it's a Mazda. The Expedition manual has nothing in common once you get past the Ford emblem on the cover. >>>>>>> I looked this morning. Fuse 10 spot is unoccupied and the sticker >>>>>>> next to the fuse panel says #10 is for the rear brake towing option. [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > manual has nothing in common once you get past the Ford emblem on the > cover. I'm frustrated too by the fact that I couldn't find the EVTM for the 88 ranger on eBay, half, from ford, other bookstores or the library. If you mean that you want me to buy a subscription to one of the pay repair sites then you can send me the money. Beyond that, I have not "been provided the exact schematic you need". I already explained the problem with the Autozone sheets, they lack a caption to link them tio a year of engine. Telling me where I can buy something is not the same as "Providing" Good thing I don't have an Expedition, the fuel cost would kill me. I drive an 08 Escape Hybrid now and don't expect it's wiring to match the older Fords. "Your Ranger might say Ford on the grille, but it's a Mazda" The Explorer is a Mazda too, uses the exact same manual transmission as similar year mazda trucks. The Ranger and Explorer (and Aerostar) do in fact share the very same shop manual published by ford (at least in 92-94 maybe more I didn't bother to look). Depending on the year and engine the two vehicles share many of the same components. It was good enough, I got the lamp to light, the flashing is an entirely new problem AFAIK, hidden by the old. There was no Explorer in 88 but the wire colors and connector pinouts are exactly the same behind the dashboard. You may lack the flexibility to adapt, I don't. >I'm frustrated too by the fact that I couldn't find the EVTM for the 88 >ranger on eBay, half, from ford, other bookstores or the library. Go here... http://www.books4cars.com/result2.asp?findyear=1988&imageField2.x=27&imageField2.y=9 Ask them if they still have this item number... (88_FPS1212788) It should be what you seek... 88 Ranger & Bronco II Electrical and Vacuum troubleshooting manual I'm just a satisfied customer... SteveL >>I'm frustrated too by the fact that I couldn't find the EVTM for the 88 >>ranger on eBay, half, from ford, other bookstores or the library. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > SteveL Thanks and maybe if this goes into round 2 >>>I'm frustrated too by the fact that I couldn't find the EVTM for the 88 >>>ranger on eBay, half, from ford, other bookstores or the library. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks and maybe if this goes into round 2 Oops , used the wrong account, don't want anybody to think I am masquerading as another poster. thats me above >>No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when >>you [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > vehicles for $15.00. and you can print whatever you need to, > although I'm not sure how you'd go about downloading anything. No Chiltons and Haynes were my last try and just about all they had at the library ( I sent the friend whose truck I am fixing). I may try a subscription service if things get hairy next week but the friend is poor and we don't want to spend much if anything. Registration is payed. just need to pass smog to get a sticker, they give you a bit of time to clear that up. > No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when > you start the truck and thus will not pass a smog check in CA. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be > excluded from most service manuals. Have you considered the possibility that the bulb is burnt out? My vehicles turn the bulb on with the Ignition ON. The light goes out on my Jeep and my Mazda (a '94 and a '93, respectively) turn the light on with Ignition ON, then the light goes out after a few seconds. My '94 BMW turns the light on and keeps it on until Ignition START. If your Check Light never comes on, the first check is the bulb. You had trouble previously though, so you may want to look at the melted wires again to be sure they were all fixed. >> No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when >> you start the truck and thus will not pass a smog check in CA. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > trouble previously though, so you may want to look at the melted wires > again to be sure they were all fixed. Duh, re read, I plan to check that first > No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when > you start the truck and thus will not pass a smog check in CA. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be > excluded from most service manuals. www.autozone.com Select "repair info" You can get a basic wiring diagram there. According to that, 1988 Ford Ranger, 4 cyl, check engine light is a pink wire going to pin 20 of the engine control module. The high side of the bulb is protected by a 10 amp fuse (fuse #10), check that fuse to make sure it is OK. >> No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when >> you start the truck and thus will not pass a smog check in CA. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > bulb is protected by a 10 amp fuse (fuse #10), check that fuse to make > sure it is OK. That's a pretty good website but a little slow for me. I am still looking for the source diagram (do you have an exact link?) you quoted the pink wire but that info should be useful in and of itself. Thanks > No its not stuck on, its stuck off. This whole thread is now going into the 'ignore' bucket. The OP is being too silly. If he was really interested in fixing it, he/she would have. This silliness about pretending the light is not there, or wiring it to the oil presssure switch, and using a wiring diagram for a different vehicle is just too much. Bye-Bye! >> No its not stuck on, its stuck off. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Bye-Bye! Sounds like you stopped reading several days ago. I rejected the oil pressure suggestion outright right away. I posted a conclusion where the light is now working (lit when it should light, there is now a new problem but thats another thread that won't go here). If anyone here thinks I was here for anything more than entertainment then you are the silly ones. I certainly would have got as far as I did without ever coming here. Maybe you should hit the "headers" button a few times and get the rest of the thread before you pop off prematurely My purpose other than entratainment was to ask someone who I don't have access to at home (without paying much money) if some of my assumptions were correct. Some replies did help or reinforce what I already believed. Your link to Autozone was a bit helpful but since the only diagram showing a MIL lamp was the first and it was the least like the actual vehicle of all and all the other diagrams showed no such lamp, what would you conclude? The owner can't afford more than 2 gallons of gas at a time let alone a mechanic and I am too smart to just shell out money for a vehicle that is not my own. I am willing to fix it, I don't get into the engine ever but as an EE the wiring is not a problem even in a case like this where I had to merge data from several sources to determine that it was appropriate to connect two different colored wires. How long would it take you to come to that conclusion. It would have been nice to have the exact year wire diagrams but I could not locate it and the autozone diagrams were uncaptioned as to the year and engine they represented. In my experience, certain Ford vehicles share attributes for many years in a row, the wire colors and harness between the ranger and explorer is one of those cases. If this were my vehicle, there would be none of these issues. My Explorer is as close to mint as a 15 Y.O. SUV can be. I find it ridiculous that this poster and another got frustrated to the point of flaming off just because they were either reading more into the post then there was or because I didn't act as they thought I should. Many hours have past, other things have happened, I didn't write them all down here for your approval. If you think this process is silly then you miss the point of the entertainment value all this, you take this too seriously perhaps. If anyone thinks that any poster must get an answer here or they are SOL then that's unrealistic. If you are here for another reason what could that be, to get your ego stroked when someone raves about your eloquently worded and ultimately correct and insightfil advice???? Or is it to feel superior when you conclude that a poster is too silly to participate in your club??? And if you think I wasn't entertained writing this reply then you are still missing the point :) And finally why would one "Bye Bye" a poster who sticks with the topic and posts the results when you have so many who post incomplete questions and never post back ever you could be doing that to. Whatever, I was trying to follow this thread in the hopes that I could supply a "magic bullet"... However, I grew tired of scrolling to the bottomof each and every post to see what might have been offered as a resolution.... WTF is it with all this "Netiquette" that has us making it so hard to see the object of our desires... I'm probably pissing a lot of people off by posting "at the top".... Why? If you are following this thread, you will already be "up to speed" on it - if not, it will be "up to you" to become "up to speed" on it. Instead, we will make others endure countless lines of drivel knowing that there is a very real chance that they will miss anything meaningful in the avalanche of redundant information... All of you bottom posters should return your attention to the "DING!"... my fries were overdone... For the original poster.... the only acess I have to EVTMs this old is to make the hike up that long flight of stairs to access our paper manuals.... Sorry - you lose... However, you will find that most (and it is a very,very fine line that keeps me from saying "all") PCM outputs are ground side switched. This means (depending on your knowledge of the DMM) that you should be able to find B+ at the "hot" side of the CEL bulb with the key on. What you find here is going to decide your next step. What I see is a whole whack of posts... too hard to follow for the aforementioned idiocy... that offer uneducated "what ifs" (as far as I read). This problem should be a "no brainer" and it has generated more replies than any other question for a long time.... > No its not stuck on, its stuck off. It does not illuminate briefly when > you start the truck and thus will not pass a smog check in CA. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be > excluded from most service manuals. I too like to top post but its hard to be consistant when nobody else is. The problem is temporarily solved by connecting the MIL lamp wire to the CEL by installing a missing wire. The end result has the CEL flashing steady for 30 seconds then turning off after starting the engine. Without starting the engine, the CEL works correctly. Somethings ether not hooked up to the ECC or out of range. It seems to work otherwise lighting the lamp if you force a code. I suppose I could rig a timed relay to open for 30 seconds after starting. The CEL would work normally for all but a half minute. I'm not very comfortable with that solution though. Its not defeating the system but it is masking something. For all I know, its simply due to the wrong computer being used with this engine. >I was trying to follow this thread in the hopes that I could supply a >"magic bullet"... However, I grew tired of scrolling to the bottomof each [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] >> Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be >> excluded from most service manuals. >I too like to top post but its hard to be consistant when nobody else is. >The problem is temporarily solved by connecting the MIL lamp wire to the CEL >by installing a missing wire. The end result has the CEL flashing steady >for 30 seconds then turning off after starting the engine. Without starting >the engine, the CEL works correctly. Just connect the cel in parallel with any other light that comes on with the key on and goes out with the engine started. Then it will behave like a CEL, even though it won't tell anyone anything. >Somethings ether not hooked up to the ECC or out of range. It seems to work >otherwise lighting the lamp if you force a code. I suppose I could rig a [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] >>> Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be >>> excluded from most service manuals. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>I too like to top post but its hard to be consistant when nobody else is. >>The problem is temporarily solved by connecting the MIL lamp wire to the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Then it will behave like a CEL, even though it won't tell anyone > anything. There are no other lamps that act close enough to the MIL/CEL. I'm considering wiring a 555 timer to open a relay contact connected in series with the new wire I installed. The timer will be triggered by the Key-Start signal and run for 45 seconds before closing the relay and restoring normal operation. I solved the problem by connecting the MIL wire to the CEL. Now after starting the engine, the CEL flashes steadily then turns off after 30 seconds. _________________________________________________ THE MIL IS THE CEL. There are not two separate indicators. You have wired your (MIL/CEL) to your seat belt reminder. Rodan. The Check Engine Light and the Malfunction Indicator Light are the same light. >I too like to top post but its hard to be consistant when nobody else is. >The problem is temporarily solved by connecting the MIL lamp wire to the [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] >>> Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be >>> excluded from most service manuals. Yes, I understood that from the beginning. The only failing item on the smog test was stated as "MIL Lamp" in the first place. Everything else passed. > The Check Engine Light and the Malfunction Indicator Light are the same > light. [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] >>>> Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be >>>> excluded from most service manuals. You are seriously confused. Or silly. You said you connected the MIL tothe CEL. The MIL and the CEL are the same thing. > Yes, I understood that from the beginning. The only failing item on the > smog test was stated as "MIL Lamp" in the first place. Everything else [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] >>>>> Does anyone have any insight as to why this indicator lamp would be >>>>> excluded from most service manuals. You also said you could not find the light on the schematic, but it is clearly shown ... > You are seriously confused. Or silly. > > You said you connected the MIL tothe CEL. The MIL and the CEL are the same > thing. Followup: It passed inspection > You also said you could not find the light on the schematic, but it is > clearly shown ... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> You said you connected the MIL tothe CEL. The MIL and the CEL are the >> same thing. He says it passed the smog check ...
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