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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / November 2008

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Detroit Three executives

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Tim - 24 Nov 2008 20:06 GMT
I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well
prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and
plans were needed?
HLS - 24 Nov 2008 20:30 GMT
>I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well prepared
>as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and plans were
>needed?

C'mon, Tim... These turkeys knew they were coming before Congress to be
grilled and they should have been prepared to answer hard questions.
Paulson
is an administration hanger-on, admitted, but we are not really talking
about
Nardelli being better than Paulson.

The three "stooges" made fools of themselves.
Mike Hunter - 24 Nov 2008 21:13 GMT
I recognized two of the Senators you are referencing, but who do you think
was the third?   ;)

> "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
.

> The three "stooges" made fools of themselves.
Tim - 24 Nov 2008 23:00 GMT
>> I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well
>> prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> The three "stooges" made fools of themselves.

How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do?
The reason they need the loan is obvious. There is a credit freeze
caused by the banks.
The companies have other problems but this is what has caused them to go
to the government for loans at this time.

The politicians were laying in wait, determined to make a show for the
electorate, who would rather have these companies fail or their workers'
standards of living drop than save an industry that helped improve the
blue collar worker's life to one that is the envy of the world.
Bill Putney - 25 Nov 2008 00:23 GMT
>>> I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well
>>> prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> standards of living drop than save an industry that helped improve the
> blue collar worker's life to one that is the envy of the world.

It's quite a dilemma for those who hate corporate America but love the
unions.

Signature

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

raamman@gmail.com - 25 Nov 2008 03:06 GMT
> >>> I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well
> >>> prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

while you are free and happy to bash unions you seem oblivious to the
outrageous "compensation packages" the fuckheads in suits who do
nothing all day- they make far more than the workers who earn their
wage in mind numbing  drugery day in day out. Show some respect
Mike Marlow - 25 Nov 2008 04:45 GMT
> while you are free and happy to bash unions you seem oblivious to the
> outrageous "compensation packages" the fuckheads in suits who do
> nothing all day- they make far more than the workers who earn their
> wage in mind numbing  drugery day in day out. Show some respect

Mind numbing drugery is nothing to respect.  

Outrageous compensation packages, I can agree with - folks in suits wo do
nothing all day, I can't.  It only shows how little you really understand
about the various aspects of a business organization.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

raamman@gmail.com - 25 Nov 2008 05:39 GMT
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:06:55 -0800 (PST), raam...@gmail.com cast forth
> these pearls of wisdom...:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREM...@alltel.net

yeah, it's a scam
HLS - 25 Nov 2008 14:05 GMT
> Outrageous compensation packages, I can agree with - folks in suits wo do
> nothing all day, I can't. It only shows how little you really understand
> about the various aspects of a business organization.

A lot of corporations have some deadwood at the top.  It is apparently
unpopular
to dismiss people at this level for a number of reasons.

I have seen suited thieves who were not fired, but were transferred sideways
to another
"opportunity".

I have seen the same pinstriped sapsuckers destroy the profitability and
morale of a
company due to their incompetence (and still be protected by their huddle of
coworkers).

I have seen them organize and implement acquisitions which are clearly
losers from the
onset, because their MBO bonus plan gives them 20% for completing
acquisitions.

The Peter principle is alive and well.
Bill Putney - 25 Nov 2008 23:42 GMT
>> Outrageous compensation packages, I can agree with - folks in suits wo do
>> nothing all day, I can't. It only shows how little you really understand
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> sideways to another
> "opportunity".

...a place where they can do the least amount of damage.

> The Peter principle is alive and well.

The lateral arabesque (a rather elegant descriptive name coined by Dr.
Laurence J. Peter).

Signature

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Bill Putney - 25 Nov 2008 11:12 GMT
>> It's quite a dilemma for those who hate corporate America but love the
>> unions.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> nothing all day- they make far more than the workers who earn their
> wage in mind numbing  drugery day in day out. Show some respect

Show me where I bashed unions. I simply said the situation with the Big
3 is one that is a huge dilemma for those who hate corporate America but
love the unions.  Tell me what's wrong with that statement.

I'll show some respect when it's earned - not because you tell me I have to.

Signature

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

HLS - 25 Nov 2008 00:28 GMT
"Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:a3654$492b3204$cef8ac46
> How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do?
> The reason they need the loan is obvious. There is a credit freeze
> caused by the banks.
> The companies have other problems but this is what has caused them to go
> to the government for loans at this time.

It makes no difference.  At this time, Paulsen is the "bull goose".  

EVERYBODY has credit problems.  The problems exceed the money even on
a national basis.

I am not at odds with you, but this is a shitteaux politics driven issue.

These pimps in Washington will eventually do something, even if it is wrong.
Bill Putney - 25 Nov 2008 01:15 GMT
> ...These pimps in Washington will eventually do something, even if it is
> wrong.

Unfortunately that's probably true.  Or they'll do the right thing for
the wrong reasons - we can hope.

Signature

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Ted Mittelstaedt - 25 Nov 2008 23:41 GMT
> "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:a3654$492b3204$cef8ac46
> > How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> EVERYBODY has credit problems.  The problems exceed the money even on
> a national basis.

What is a "credit problem?"

In the "olden days" companies that ran cyclical seasons had things they
called
"cash reserves"  They would scoop out a chunk of money from the cash
reserve,
fund whatever operation from it, and the cash reserve would then be replaced
by scooping it out of the profits of that operation.

Companies could make a little money off interest on this reserve, or make a
bit more
loaning it to other companies if they had extra.

Then 10-15 years ago the eastern bankers convinced a lot of those companies
that somehow it was better business to run with NO cash reserve, and
whenever
they needed money for some operation, to scoop the money out of the bank
and pay the bankers interest on it, then when the profits came from whatever
operation, they would scoop even more money out of the profits of their
operation
to pay back the bankers.

Frankly, my fervent hope is that credit is NOT EVER unfrozen, not at least
for
many, many years.  I would like to see all the companies that fell for that
bankers
line of sh.t to go out of business.  Not all companies fell for this and
squandered
away their cash reserves.

Banks need to get back into the business of making money by paying out 2%
on passbook checking and savings accounts, and charging 4% on 30-year
fixed mortgages.  With the volumes of money the banks make, a 2 point spread

on just doing this only would make all of them many, many billions of
dollars
of profit.

Ted
Mike Marlow - 25 Nov 2008 04:42 GMT
> How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do?
> The reason they need the loan is obvious. There is a credit freeze
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> standards of living drop than save an industry that helped improve the
> blue collar worker's life to one that is the envy of the world.

Come on Tim.  You're coming across as an apologist for the automakers.
What does it matter what Paulson did?  The Big 3 came to town for a handout
and it's perfectly reasonable to expect that they would have a well
prepared case for a hand out if they really want one.  It's also quite
reasonable to expect they would not flaunt their stuff, coming into town in
their private jets, etc.  They blew it big time, in every sense.  

There is no credit freeze either.  My daughter just bought a new car - her
first car loan.  Easily got financing for 7.5%.  Had several offers
hovering around that same mark.  She's only 24 so she does not have the
history that you or I have, so that's a pretty good rate for her.  What
kind of credit freeze is there Tim?

Politicians always want to put on a show for the electorate, and I agree
they did so this time.  The problem is that the three stooges played right
into it and made the show real.  

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Tim - 25 Nov 2008 15:30 GMT
>> How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do?
>> The reason they need the loan is obvious. There is a credit freeze
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> they did so this time.  The problem is that the three stooges played right
> into it and made the show real.  

There is a credit freeze in that the banks will not lend the car dealers
money, which is how they finance their showroom and car lot vehicles.

One case, your daughter's, does not disprove anything.
HLS - 25 Nov 2008 15:41 GMT
"Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:d892d$492c1a2a$cef8ac46
> One case, your daughter's, does not disprove anything.

There does not seem to be any problem getting loans in this part of Texas,
if you have a good credit history, stable employment, etc.

The midwestern states have not been hit nearly as hard on the mortgage loan
forfeitures as the west coast and east coast...the heavily populated, high
real
estate market areas.

I am sure the floor plan loans are difficult.
Tim - 25 Nov 2008 19:14 GMT
> "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:d892d$492c1a2a$cef8ac46
>> One case, your daughter's, does not disprove anything.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> I am sure the floor plan loans are difficult.

Is your daughter a car dealer? Try reading the post.
Tim - 25 Nov 2008 20:25 GMT
> "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:d892d$492c1a2a$cef8ac46
>> One case, your daughter's, does not disprove anything.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> I am sure the floor plan loans are difficult.

Maybe you should phone the president and let him know. You would have
saved the country $800 Billion in additional money that they are going
to use to unfreeze the credit market.
Tell the president there isn't a problem because your daughter just got
a loan.
HLS - 25 Nov 2008 22:38 GMT
"Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:57561$492c5f44$cef8ac46

> Maybe you should phone the president and let him know. You would have
> saved the country $800 Billion in additional money that they are going to
> use to unfreeze the credit market.
> Tell the president there isn't a problem because your daughter just got a
> loan.

If you would read the post, you would realize I posted nothing about my
daughter.

The two posts are intermingled.  Get your head out of your a.s.

The credit market here in the midwest is not as bad as in other areas.. That
is
a fact, at this point.
Tim - 25 Nov 2008 23:40 GMT
> "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:57561$492c5f44$cef8ac46
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> That is
> a fact, at this point.

OK, sorry about the comment about your daughter.

That being said, I really wonder how you would know that? Is it from the
newspapers or how?
HLS - 26 Nov 2008 00:36 GMT
"Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:cfee2$492c8ced$cef8ac46> OK,
sorry about the comment about your daughter.

> That being said, I really wonder how you would know that? Is it from the
> newspapers or how?

Time Magazine, yesterday at the doctor's office.

Housing in this part of Texas continues to move, and people are still
flipping in Austin
and other desirable markets.
Tim - 26 Nov 2008 00:54 GMT
> "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:cfee2$492c8ced$cef8ac46>
> OK, sorry about the comment about your daughter.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> flipping in Austin
> and other desirable markets.

Here in Canada our banks are in good shape, our car sales are too.
Retail surprisingly good.
The banks won't lend money to the car dealerships. Now how can that be
in Canada, where there is no real recession yet but not Austin?
HLS - 26 Nov 2008 01:34 GMT
"Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:c7b94$492c9e30$cef8ac46
> Here in Canada our banks are in good shape, our car sales are too. Retail
> surprisingly good.
> The banks won't lend money to the car dealerships. Now how can that be in
> Canada, where there is no real recession yet but not Austin?

We are wondering that too... Certain areas like Austin are high level,
relatively
low cost (compared to other areas in the USA) areas.  Lots of people with
money
move to the "Hill Country" of Texas.

There is money to be had, if you have a decent credit history.

Floor plan loans are another deal...GM has provided this service in the
past, I believe,
just so that dealerships can keep products on display.  It was relatively
cheap.

Car loans to the consumer are a different subject.  Certainly not every Tom,
Dick, and Harry
can walk in and get a top of the line car for nothing down and no credit
history.  But, we
are not hard hit here in Texas at the moment.  Are holding our breath,
waiting for the other
shoe to drop.
Dioclese - 25 Nov 2008 14:22 GMT
>I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well prepared
>as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and plans were
>needed?

The Senate hearing?
Senators - hypocrites
Big 3 Execs - hypocrites
Self-righteous consumers - hypocrites
News media - you know that by now
All helped create the problems we're having now, or, ignored the symptoms.
Business as usual attitude got us here.  The thing different here is the Big
3 Execs just don't get it.  The retribution factor, from the consumer, due
the Big 3 slowness to change with the times just complicates matters.  The
senate hearing as a result is a reflection of what those senators are
hearing from their constituents.

Oddly, more than half of the U.S. polled did not want to bailout banks.
Yet, here we are doing just that.  Paulsen used fear tactics to get that to
pass.  In the interim, we saw Paulsen change his mind a  few times how to
attack the problem.  Meanwhile, people were still losing their homes to
foreclosure.  Corporate big whigs were partying up and still getting their
big multi-million bonues.  Unemployment increased.  The Big 3 Execs tried
fear tactics, and failed miserably.  I don't see why there is a reason for
confusion or reason to question of why the senate hearing demanded a
detailed business plan.  Some people tend to learn after being bashed in the
head a number of times.  Even Senators...
Signature

Dave

HLS - 25 Nov 2008 14:27 GMT
"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message news:kJ6dnfIYB4WDl7HUnZ2dnUVZ_j-
> Oddly, more than half of the U.S. polled did not want to bailout banks.
> Yet, here we are doing just that.  Paulsen used fear tactics to get that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> detailed business plan.  Some people tend to learn after being bashed in
> the head a number of times.  Even Senators...

We have more of a politburo rather than a responsive and responsable
representative democracy.  They seem to play their little games, enrich
themselves, and feed off the lobbyists.

An extreme attitude adjustment is indicated.
man of machines - 29 Nov 2008 15:18 GMT
why were they required to have a plan for loans and fannie may and freddie
mac and aig had no plans or guide lines and were GIVEN the money???????????

> I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well
> prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and
> plans were needed?
Gosi - 29 Nov 2008 16:00 GMT
> why were they required to have a plan for loans and fannie may and freddie
> mac and aig had no plans or guide lines and were GIVEN the money???????????
>
> > I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well
> > prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and
> > plans were needed?

They basically took over the loans for the houses in the case of
fannie and freddie.
No more really bad loans issued and everything put on hold.

It would be possible to do the same for GM and friends.
Take over all the loans on cars and stop producing more crap.
It is basically what will happen anyway.
 
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