Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / November 2008
Detroit Three executives
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Tim - 24 Nov 2008 20:06 GMT I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and plans were needed?
HLS - 24 Nov 2008 20:30 GMT >I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well prepared >as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and plans were >needed? C'mon, Tim... These turkeys knew they were coming before Congress to be grilled and they should have been prepared to answer hard questions. Paulson is an administration hanger-on, admitted, but we are not really talking about Nardelli being better than Paulson.
The three "stooges" made fools of themselves.
Mike Hunter - 24 Nov 2008 21:13 GMT I recognized two of the Senators you are referencing, but who do you think was the third? ;)
> "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message .
> The three "stooges" made fools of themselves. Tim - 24 Nov 2008 23:00 GMT >> I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well >> prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > The three "stooges" made fools of themselves. How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do? The reason they need the loan is obvious. There is a credit freeze caused by the banks. The companies have other problems but this is what has caused them to go to the government for loans at this time.
The politicians were laying in wait, determined to make a show for the electorate, who would rather have these companies fail or their workers' standards of living drop than save an industry that helped improve the blue collar worker's life to one that is the envy of the world.
Bill Putney - 25 Nov 2008 00:23 GMT >>> I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well >>> prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > standards of living drop than save an industry that helped improve the > blue collar worker's life to one that is the envy of the world. It's quite a dilemma for those who hate corporate America but love the unions.
 Signature Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
raamman@gmail.com - 25 Nov 2008 03:06 GMT > >>> I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well > >>> prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - while you are free and happy to bash unions you seem oblivious to the outrageous "compensation packages" the fuckheads in suits who do nothing all day- they make far more than the workers who earn their wage in mind numbing drugery day in day out. Show some respect
Mike Marlow - 25 Nov 2008 04:45 GMT > while you are free and happy to bash unions you seem oblivious to the > outrageous "compensation packages" the fuckheads in suits who do > nothing all day- they make far more than the workers who earn their > wage in mind numbing drugery day in day out. Show some respect Mind numbing drugery is nothing to respect.
Outrageous compensation packages, I can agree with - folks in suits wo do nothing all day, I can't. It only shows how little you really understand about the various aspects of a business organization.
 Signature -Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
raamman@gmail.com - 25 Nov 2008 05:39 GMT > On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:06:55 -0800 (PST), raam...@gmail.com cast forth > these pearls of wisdom...: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -Mike- > mmarlowREM...@alltel.net yeah, it's a scam
HLS - 25 Nov 2008 14:05 GMT > Outrageous compensation packages, I can agree with - folks in suits wo do > nothing all day, I can't. It only shows how little you really understand > about the various aspects of a business organization. A lot of corporations have some deadwood at the top. It is apparently unpopular to dismiss people at this level for a number of reasons.
I have seen suited thieves who were not fired, but were transferred sideways to another "opportunity".
I have seen the same pinstriped sapsuckers destroy the profitability and morale of a company due to their incompetence (and still be protected by their huddle of coworkers).
I have seen them organize and implement acquisitions which are clearly losers from the onset, because their MBO bonus plan gives them 20% for completing acquisitions.
The Peter principle is alive and well.
Bill Putney - 25 Nov 2008 23:42 GMT >> Outrageous compensation packages, I can agree with - folks in suits wo do >> nothing all day, I can't. It only shows how little you really understand [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sideways to another > "opportunity". ...a place where they can do the least amount of damage.
> The Peter principle is alive and well. The lateral arabesque (a rather elegant descriptive name coined by Dr. Laurence J. Peter).
 Signature Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Bill Putney - 25 Nov 2008 11:12 GMT >> It's quite a dilemma for those who hate corporate America but love the >> unions. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > nothing all day- they make far more than the workers who earn their > wage in mind numbing drugery day in day out. Show some respect Show me where I bashed unions. I simply said the situation with the Big 3 is one that is a huge dilemma for those who hate corporate America but love the unions. Tell me what's wrong with that statement.
I'll show some respect when it's earned - not because you tell me I have to.
 Signature Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
HLS - 25 Nov 2008 00:28 GMT "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:a3654$492b3204$cef8ac46
> How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do? > The reason they need the loan is obvious. There is a credit freeze > caused by the banks. > The companies have other problems but this is what has caused them to go > to the government for loans at this time. It makes no difference. At this time, Paulsen is the "bull goose".
EVERYBODY has credit problems. The problems exceed the money even on a national basis.
I am not at odds with you, but this is a shitteaux politics driven issue.
These pimps in Washington will eventually do something, even if it is wrong.
Bill Putney - 25 Nov 2008 01:15 GMT > ...These pimps in Washington will eventually do something, even if it is > wrong. Unfortunately that's probably true. Or they'll do the right thing for the wrong reasons - we can hope.
 Signature Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Ted Mittelstaedt - 25 Nov 2008 23:41 GMT > "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:a3654$492b3204$cef8ac46 > > How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > EVERYBODY has credit problems. The problems exceed the money even on > a national basis. What is a "credit problem?"
In the "olden days" companies that ran cyclical seasons had things they called "cash reserves" They would scoop out a chunk of money from the cash reserve, fund whatever operation from it, and the cash reserve would then be replaced by scooping it out of the profits of that operation.
Companies could make a little money off interest on this reserve, or make a bit more loaning it to other companies if they had extra.
Then 10-15 years ago the eastern bankers convinced a lot of those companies that somehow it was better business to run with NO cash reserve, and whenever they needed money for some operation, to scoop the money out of the bank and pay the bankers interest on it, then when the profits came from whatever operation, they would scoop even more money out of the profits of their operation to pay back the bankers.
Frankly, my fervent hope is that credit is NOT EVER unfrozen, not at least for many, many years. I would like to see all the companies that fell for that bankers line of sh.t to go out of business. Not all companies fell for this and squandered away their cash reserves.
Banks need to get back into the business of making money by paying out 2% on passbook checking and savings accounts, and charging 4% on 30-year fixed mortgages. With the volumes of money the banks make, a 2 point spread
on just doing this only would make all of them many, many billions of dollars of profit.
Ted
Mike Marlow - 25 Nov 2008 04:42 GMT > How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do? > The reason they need the loan is obvious. There is a credit freeze [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > standards of living drop than save an industry that helped improve the > blue collar worker's life to one that is the envy of the world. Come on Tim. You're coming across as an apologist for the automakers. What does it matter what Paulson did? The Big 3 came to town for a handout and it's perfectly reasonable to expect that they would have a well prepared case for a hand out if they really want one. It's also quite reasonable to expect they would not flaunt their stuff, coming into town in their private jets, etc. They blew it big time, in every sense.
There is no credit freeze either. My daughter just bought a new car - her first car loan. Easily got financing for 7.5%. Had several offers hovering around that same mark. She's only 24 so she does not have the history that you or I have, so that's a pretty good rate for her. What kind of credit freeze is there Tim?
Politicians always want to put on a show for the electorate, and I agree they did so this time. The problem is that the three stooges played right into it and made the show real.
 Signature -Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
Tim - 25 Nov 2008 15:30 GMT >> How many times has Paulson changed his mind about what he is going to do? >> The reason they need the loan is obvious. There is a credit freeze [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > they did so this time. The problem is that the three stooges played right > into it and made the show real. There is a credit freeze in that the banks will not lend the car dealers money, which is how they finance their showroom and car lot vehicles.
One case, your daughter's, does not disprove anything.
HLS - 25 Nov 2008 15:41 GMT "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:d892d$492c1a2a$cef8ac46
> One case, your daughter's, does not disprove anything. There does not seem to be any problem getting loans in this part of Texas, if you have a good credit history, stable employment, etc.
The midwestern states have not been hit nearly as hard on the mortgage loan forfeitures as the west coast and east coast...the heavily populated, high real estate market areas.
I am sure the floor plan loans are difficult.
Tim - 25 Nov 2008 19:14 GMT > "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:d892d$492c1a2a$cef8ac46 >> One case, your daughter's, does not disprove anything. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I am sure the floor plan loans are difficult. Is your daughter a car dealer? Try reading the post.
Tim - 25 Nov 2008 20:25 GMT > "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:d892d$492c1a2a$cef8ac46 >> One case, your daughter's, does not disprove anything. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I am sure the floor plan loans are difficult. Maybe you should phone the president and let him know. You would have saved the country $800 Billion in additional money that they are going to use to unfreeze the credit market. Tell the president there isn't a problem because your daughter just got a loan.
HLS - 25 Nov 2008 22:38 GMT "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:57561$492c5f44$cef8ac46
> Maybe you should phone the president and let him know. You would have > saved the country $800 Billion in additional money that they are going to > use to unfreeze the credit market. > Tell the president there isn't a problem because your daughter just got a > loan. If you would read the post, you would realize I posted nothing about my daughter.
The two posts are intermingled. Get your head out of your a.s.
The credit market here in the midwest is not as bad as in other areas.. That is a fact, at this point.
Tim - 25 Nov 2008 23:40 GMT > "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:57561$492c5f44$cef8ac46 > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > That is > a fact, at this point. OK, sorry about the comment about your daughter.
That being said, I really wonder how you would know that? Is it from the newspapers or how?
HLS - 26 Nov 2008 00:36 GMT "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:cfee2$492c8ced$cef8ac46> OK, sorry about the comment about your daughter.
> That being said, I really wonder how you would know that? Is it from the > newspapers or how? Time Magazine, yesterday at the doctor's office.
Housing in this part of Texas continues to move, and people are still flipping in Austin and other desirable markets.
Tim - 26 Nov 2008 00:54 GMT > "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:cfee2$492c8ced$cef8ac46> > OK, sorry about the comment about your daughter. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > flipping in Austin > and other desirable markets. Here in Canada our banks are in good shape, our car sales are too. Retail surprisingly good. The banks won't lend money to the car dealerships. Now how can that be in Canada, where there is no real recession yet but not Austin?
HLS - 26 Nov 2008 01:34 GMT "Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:c7b94$492c9e30$cef8ac46
> Here in Canada our banks are in good shape, our car sales are too. Retail > surprisingly good. > The banks won't lend money to the car dealerships. Now how can that be in > Canada, where there is no real recession yet but not Austin? We are wondering that too... Certain areas like Austin are high level, relatively low cost (compared to other areas in the USA) areas. Lots of people with money move to the "Hill Country" of Texas.
There is money to be had, if you have a decent credit history.
Floor plan loans are another deal...GM has provided this service in the past, I believe, just so that dealerships can keep products on display. It was relatively cheap.
Car loans to the consumer are a different subject. Certainly not every Tom, Dick, and Harry can walk in and get a top of the line car for nothing down and no credit history. But, we are not hard hit here in Texas at the moment. Are holding our breath, waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Dioclese - 25 Nov 2008 14:22 GMT >I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well prepared >as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and plans were >needed? The Senate hearing? Senators - hypocrites Big 3 Execs - hypocrites Self-righteous consumers - hypocrites News media - you know that by now All helped create the problems we're having now, or, ignored the symptoms. Business as usual attitude got us here. The thing different here is the Big 3 Execs just don't get it. The retribution factor, from the consumer, due the Big 3 slowness to change with the times just complicates matters. The senate hearing as a result is a reflection of what those senators are hearing from their constituents.
Oddly, more than half of the U.S. polled did not want to bailout banks. Yet, here we are doing just that. Paulsen used fear tactics to get that to pass. In the interim, we saw Paulsen change his mind a few times how to attack the problem. Meanwhile, people were still losing their homes to foreclosure. Corporate big whigs were partying up and still getting their big multi-million bonues. Unemployment increased. The Big 3 Execs tried fear tactics, and failed miserably. I don't see why there is a reason for confusion or reason to question of why the senate hearing demanded a detailed business plan. Some people tend to learn after being bashed in the head a number of times. Even Senators...
 Signature Dave
HLS - 25 Nov 2008 14:27 GMT "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message news:kJ6dnfIYB4WDl7HUnZ2dnUVZ_j-
> Oddly, more than half of the U.S. polled did not want to bailout banks. > Yet, here we are doing just that. Paulsen used fear tactics to get that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > detailed business plan. Some people tend to learn after being bashed in > the head a number of times. Even Senators... We have more of a politburo rather than a responsive and responsable representative democracy. They seem to play their little games, enrich themselves, and feed off the lobbyists.
An extreme attitude adjustment is indicated.
man of machines - 29 Nov 2008 15:18 GMT why were they required to have a plan for loans and fannie may and freddie mac and aig had no plans or guide lines and were GIVEN the money???????????
> I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well > prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and > plans were needed? Gosi - 29 Nov 2008 16:00 GMT > why were they required to have a plan for loans and fannie may and freddie > mac and aig had no plans or guide lines and were GIVEN the money??????????? > > > I wouldn't blame the Detroit Three executives. They were as well > > prepared as Paulson was. Why would they expect more detailed answers and > > plans were needed? They basically took over the loans for the houses in the case of fannie and freddie. No more really bad loans issued and everything put on hold.
It would be possible to do the same for GM and friends. Take over all the loans on cars and stop producing more crap. It is basically what will happen anyway.
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