Hey, all, I have an old Ford dump truck with a straight 6 300 (it's an
F-500 from 1970). I got it used a few years ago and it knocked pretty
badly and finally threw a rod yielding a viewport on the side of the
block. I replaced the engine with a rebuilt one from a machine shop
I've had good luck with in the past. I don't use it often, it
probably has less than 1,000 miles on the engine but it's past the 12
month warranty. Recently it quit running, leaving me on the side of
the road. Today I tore into it and found the phenolic timing gear was
stripped of all but 5 teeth. This wouldn't bother me so much except I
had a 1986 F-150 with the 6 in it strip that gear. That was an old
engine and I found that the oil pump pickup tube had some junk in it
and I ASSUME that junk was sufficient to block the oil pump and strip
the timing gear (which drives the cam which drives the vertical shaft
which drives the oil pump and the distributor). I hate coincidences
and this bothers me; two gears on basically the same engine, one used
(that one in the old F-150), one new (the rebuilt engine in the
F-500). What's worse is that I checked the pickup tube on the rebuilt
engine just because I had that past experience.
Has anybody got a, "Oh, hey, here it's this!" answer to the problem?
Any pointers on what I should look at or for? I don't want to replace
the gear without understanding what caused the failure because it
could happen again all too easily.
Thanks for your help and advice.
--HC
Ashton Crusher - 28 Dec 2008 05:03 GMT
>Hey, all, I have an old Ford dump truck with a straight 6 300 (it's an
>F-500 from 1970). I got it used a few years ago and it knocked pretty
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>--HC
I had a Pontiac with phenolic gears like that and one day while
idling the teeth just let go and the engine died. The shop that
replaced the gears said it happened all the time with the plastic
gears and put all steel gears in when they fixed it. So I'm going to
suggest that there isn't anything "wrong" and to just put a new gear
on it. My Pontiac was at about 100K. The shop that did your rebuild
may have reused the old plastic gear instead of putting new ones in to
save a couple bucks.
HC - 28 Dec 2008 16:00 GMT
> >Hey, all, I have an old Ford dump truck with a straight 6 300 (it's an
> >F-500 from 1970). I got it used a few years ago and it knocked pretty
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey, Ashton, thank you for the reply. I will check for replacement
items/options at the parts store tomorrow (Monday). I had not thought
about them maybe re-using the orginal gear. It's been suggested by
Dave (later post) to replace it with an alloy timing gear. As I
understand this is a pain to change (pulling the old gear or having to
press it off and press a new one on it) I am going to buy the beefiest
thing I can find and hang it on there.
Thanks again and Happy New Year.
--HC
Dave D - 28 Dec 2008 06:21 GMT
> Hey, all, I have an old Ford dump truck with a straight 6 300 (it's an
> F-500 from 1970). I got it used a few years ago and it knocked pretty
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> --HC
That was not an uncommon problem in the 300I6. The solution is to replace
with an alloy timing gear. I have one in an 82 F250, the phenolic gear
lasted about 180k and was still useable but I replaced it when I rebuilt the
motor.
Dave D
HC - 28 Dec 2008 16:03 GMT
> > Hey, all, I have an old Ford dump truck with a straight 6 300 (it's an
> > F-500 from 1970). I got it used a few years ago and it knocked pretty
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks, Dave, for the reply. I will check on an alloy gear to replace
this thing. Reading elsewhere about how to change the gear out
indicates it is a booger (that's a technical industry term) requiring
pressing off and perhaps even back on. :( That means I'll have to
yank the cam shaft out and it's downhill from there.
Happy New Year.
--HC
mechanic@telusplanet.net - 28 Dec 2008 17:17 GMT
The gear swap can be done without removong the cam... it will require a bit
of ingenuity (my last one was well over 12 years ago) but it can be done.
The ferrous gears are a different pitch than the phenolic "silent" gears and
will require replacing the crank gear as well.
Someone else has intimated that you may not want to worry about debri in the
pan... the silent gear can be quite "fibrous" when it fails. I would go
beyond simply checking the pick up screen - I would remove, disassmble and
inspect the oil pump and relief valve as well as inspecting an oil passages
that lend themselves easily to it.
HTH
On Dec 28, 12:21 am, "Dave D" <dtdod...@acsalaska.net> wrote:
> "HC" <hboo...@gte.net> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks, Dave, for the reply. I will check on an alloy gear to replace
this thing. Reading elsewhere about how to change the gear out
indicates it is a booger (that's a technical industry term) requiring
pressing off and perhaps even back on. :( That means I'll have to
yank the cam shaft out and it's downhill from there.
Happy New Year.
--HC
Tom - 28 Dec 2008 18:26 GMT
i agree. those phenolic gear pieces end up in the strangest places. it is
better to remove the pan and check as much as you can while you have it
apart, than to not do it and then have to pull it apart in 6 months because
the oil pump caught a piece of gear and clogged a passage.
> The gear swap can be done without removong the cam... it will require a
> bit of ingenuity (my last one was well over 12 years ago) but it can be
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
> --HC
clare@snyder.on.ca - 28 Dec 2008 20:28 GMT
>i agree. those phenolic gear pieces end up in the strangest places. it is
>better to remove the pan and check as much as you can while you have it
>apart, than to not do it and then have to pull it apart in 6 months because
>the oil pump caught a piece of gear and clogged a passage.
Or twisted off the OP/Distributor drive (or was that only on the V8?)
Tom - 28 Dec 2008 20:46 GMT
never saw it on a six pin, but anything is possible, rite??
>>i agree. those phenolic gear pieces end up in the strangest places. it is
>>better to remove the pan and check as much as you can while you have it
>>apart, than to not do it and then have to pull it apart in 6 months
>>because
>>the oil pump caught a piece of gear and clogged a passage.
> Or twisted off the OP/Distributor drive (or was that only on the V8?)
Dave D - 30 Dec 2008 09:28 GMT
On Dec 28, 12:21 am, "Dave D" <dtdod...@acsalaska.net> wrote:
> "HC" <hboo...@gte.net> wrote in message
///snipped///
Thanks, Dave, for the reply. I will check on an alloy gear to replace
this thing. Reading elsewhere about how to change the gear out
indicates it is a booger (that's a technical industry term) requiring
pressing off and perhaps even back on. :( That means I'll have to
yank the cam shaft out and it's downhill from there.
Happy New Year.
--HC
It has been awhile since I rebuilt that motor but IIRC I used a gear puller
to get the old one off ... I don't remember how I got the new one on the
shaft and locked down. Of course I had the motor out of the truck at the
time and had several operations going on at the same time. Sorry.
Anyway...good luck and to you and yours a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
Dave D
lugnut - 28 Dec 2008 17:00 GMT
>Hey, all, I have an old Ford dump truck with a straight 6 300 (it's an
>F-500 from 1970). I got it used a few years ago and it knocked pretty
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>--HC
Your problem is not unheardof. Fix is a steel gear set and clean out the debris
from the failed one from the oil pan. Some don't even bother removing the
debris but, I sleep better knowing it is not there. When the phenolic gears
fail, they usually do it suddenly in large pieces instead of ground up bits to
get into the oil system. If the engine was hot when it failed, it is less
likely to have carried anything at all thru the system since more of the oil is
actually going thru the filter. BTW, noise is the only reason tho use a
phenolic gear during a rebuild. Most folks would have a hard time noticing the
difference, especially in a truck.
Lugnut
ds549@webtv.net - 30 Dec 2008 16:53 GMT
the heavy duty 6 300 should have steel timing gears in it. they
swindled you by putting fiber gear made for cars in it.
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