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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / January 2009

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President Obama Plans To Can Bush's CAFE Standards!   But Why Wasn't     CAFE Part Of The Auto Makers' Bailout Agreements?

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knee'em - 26 Jan 2009 16:21 GMT
Your ex-Nincompoop In Chief's CAFE (corporate average fuel-efficiency)
standards law signed in 2007 will raise car requirements to a mere 35
miles per gallon, and not until 2020!   A typical Bush give-away to
the already failed U.S. auto industry.

"But California's tailpipe emissions rules would have effectively
required even greater fuel-efficiency increases, by seeking to cut
vehicles' greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent between 2009 and
2016, something American automakers have resisted."

------------------
"Obama to Take Steps On Car Fuel Efficiency"

By Juliet Eilperin and Steven Mufson
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, January 26, 2009; A02

President Obama plans to instruct key federal agencies today to
reexamine two policies that could force automakers to produce more
fuel-efficient cars that yield fewer greenhouse gas emissions,
according to sources who have been briefed on the announcement.

The move, which the White House has privately trumpeted to supporters
as "the first environment and energy actions taken by the president,
helping our country move toward greater energy independence," could
reverse two Bush-era decisions that have helped shape the nation's
climate policy and its auto market.

Obama will instruct the Environmental Protection Agency to reconsider
whether to grant California a waiver to regulate automobile tailpipe
emissions linked to global warming, sources said, and he will order
the Transportation Department to issue guidelines that will ensure
that the nation's auto fleet reaches an average fuel efficiency of 35
miles per gallon by 2020, if not earlier.

On Dec. 19, 2007, then-EPA Administrator Stephen L. Johnson blocked
the efforts of California and more than a dozen other states to limit
automobiles' carbon dioxide emissions, arguing that President George
W. Bush had addressed the issue by signing a law that same day raising
the corporate average fuel-efficiency standard to 35 miles per gallon
by 2020. But California's tailpipe emissions rules would have
effectively required even greater fuel-efficiency increases, by
seeking to cut vehicles' greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent
between 2009 and 2016, something American automakers have resisted.

The Bush administration never issued near-term guidelines for tighter
fuel-efficiency standards: The Transportation Department circulated a
proposal last fall that would have required auto companies to build
new cars averaging as much as 31.8 miles per gallon by 2015, compared
with the current level of 27.5 miles per gallon, but it announced less
than two weeks before Bush left office that it would not issue formal
guidelines.

Daniel J. Weiss, who directs climate strategy at the Center for
American Progress, a liberal think tank, praised the new
administration for pressing ahead with ambitious fuel economy goals.

"President Obama's actions will reduce our oil dependence by speeding
the production of the gas-sipping cars of the future," Weiss said. "He
understands that oil and gasoline prices will rise with our recovering
economy, and more fuel-efficient cars will help families cope with
higher prices. And other countries will want to buy our more-efficient
vehicles."

Officials at General Motors and Ford said they were not aware of what
the announcement would be. The White House declined to discuss the
president's planned energy announcement.

Obama, who has consistently urged U.S. automakers to produce more fuel-
efficient cars, is likely to accelerate the timeline for raising the
nation's corporate average fuel economy for cars and trucks. The
Transportation Department guidelines must be issued by April in order
to affect the 2011 auto fleet.

Granting a waiver for California to regulate tailpipe emissions would
affect nearly half the U.S. auto market. Thirteen other states --
including Maryland -- and the District have already adopted
California's proposal, while at least four others have pledged to do
so. When the EPA rejected the waiver, Obama issued a statement saying
the decision "is yet another example of how this Administration has
put corporate interests ahead of the public interest. If the courts do
not overturn this decision, I will after I am elected president."

"Not only is the new president a man of his word, but he's making a
dramatic break with the Bush administration's climate policy," said
Frank O'Donnell, who heads the advocacy group Clean Air Watch. "It's a
powerful signal that science -- and the law -- will guide his
administration's decisions. This should prompt cheers from California
to Maine."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/25/AR2009012501687.html
Mike Hunter - 26 Jan 2009 16:27 GMT
Why do you think American automakers have resisted raising CAFE?

> Your ex-Nincompoop In Chief's CAFE (corporate average fuel-efficiency)
> standards law signed in 2007 will raise car requirements to a mere 35
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/25/AR2009012501687.html
suckyasimple - 26 Jan 2009 17:11 GMT
The car makers' bailouts will result in the biggest gaming of "the
system."  Once the CEOs and other top managers receive their salary
"increases" and big bonuses, GM, Ford and Cerberus-Chrysler will file
for Chapter 11.
Frog Britches - 26 Jan 2009 19:54 GMT
> Your ex-Nincompoop In Chief's CAFE (corporate average fuel-efficiency)
> standards law signed in 2007 will raise car requirements to a mere 35
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/25/AR2009012501687.html
let us know how that 1 liter four cylinder shoe box does with a family
of four and a load of groceries. Going on vacation will require at least
two of the skateboards. Plan on doubling travel time and a
Chiropractor's visit at each end. Oh and don't forget an extra 10,000.00
for the initial purchase. Don't hit anything bigger than a gravel or you
will suffer spinal damage. or One advantage is if you break down you can
carry it to the side of the road.
Kruse - 26 Jan 2009 23:47 GMT
On Jan 26, 2:54 pm, Frog Britches <@rib.it> wrote:.

> let us know how that 1 liter four cylinder shoe box does with a family
> of four and a load of groceries. Going on vacation will require at least
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> will suffer spinal damage. or One advantage is if you break down you can
> carry it to the side of the road.

The irony of all this is that the people who will make the new laws
will never have the laws apply to them.
Do you think Al Gore or the president will ever ride in one of these
35+ mpg cars?
Ever been to D.C. where the senators have all their cars lined up? Row
after row of full-sized luxury cars.
Jeff - 27 Jan 2009 00:25 GMT
> On Jan 26, 2:54 pm, Frog Britches <@rib.it> wrote:.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Ever been to D.C. where the senators have all their cars lined up? Row
> after row of full-sized luxury cars.

And before Biden was President of the Senate, where was his car? In
his driveway because he took the train.

Jeff
C. E. White - 27 Jan 2009 13:04 GMT
> And before Biden was President of the Senate, where was his car? In
> his driveway because he took the train.

And he took the Metro to get around DC?

Ed
Mike Hunter - 27 Jan 2009 19:31 GMT
Many of the problems that are driving auto manufactures out of business,
beside some of the unreasonable regulations, is the Obama government want to
forcing them to make more of the vehicles that buyers do not want to buy, so
they can make the types of vehicles buyers do want to buy.

Every manufactures best selling vehicles, foreign and domestic, are mid size
cars midsize SUVs and trucks.   In order to meet CAFE they MUST sell a
specific number of small and midget cars that buyers do not want to buy.
There is not enough profit in small and midget cars to cover the cost of
doing business in the US.  Mid size cars and SUVs and trucks can make a
profit but they must be sold at higher in order to earn extra profit to
subsidize the lower prices of the small and midget cars.

If the manufactures are forced to sell even more small and midget cars, the
price of those type of vehicles will have to go way up.  Everybody looses
and more sales will be lost to imports that make cars for far less in third
world countries.  The net result we be we will all pay more to buy the
vehicles and some of the types of vehicles that many of us need, will no
longer be available.   It is time to contact your Senator and Congressman
unless you want to be forced to make your family side in less safe more
expensive small and midget cars  as was the case in the seventies.    Wise
up Americans.

"Green" means more "green" out of YOUR pocket

On Jan 26, 2:54 pm, Frog Britches <@rib.it> wrote:.

> let us know how that 1 liter four cylinder shoe box does with a family
> of four and a load of groceries. Going on vacation will require at least
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> will suffer spinal damage. or One advantage is if you break down you can
> carry it to the side of the road.

The irony of all this is that the people who will make the new laws
will never have the laws apply to them.
Do you think Al Gore or the president will ever ride in one of these
35+ mpg cars?
Ever been to D.C. where the senators have all their cars lined up? Row
after row of full-sized luxury cars.
Alan B. Mac Farlane - 28 Jan 2009 00:22 GMT
> Obama government want to
> forcing them to make more of the vehicles that buyers do not want to buy, so
> they can make the types of vehicles buyers do want to buy.

drink more koolaid dood ... the japanese are even driving German cars as the
japanese don't like jap crap to drive around in ... American cars once they
are tooled up ... into something like a turbo bio-diesel electric car that
gets 200 mpg city ... at $1 a gallon ... as the 1 acre pond of seawater will
make 300,000 miles of energy in a year.

biofuels are 80% reduction in green house gases ... just by switching fuels.

Ford Diesel ... is turn key ready right now bio-diesel ... just pump it in
tank and off you go.

Ford has an EXCELLENT fuel delivery system that includes a fuel heater, that
is why they can do it ...

I am running 100% bio-diesel right now cause I am in a temperate
microenvironment.

In snow country ... D-20 .. or 20% biodiesel is needed as the fuel is in the
freeze zone and needs it that way ... however bio-dieselt and electric solar
panels ... really do work.

My next vehicle I purchase is all electric ... 100% plug in ... and solar
panel ready ... get off the grid all together on most good days.

Panels last 30 years if taken care of ...  longer then the electric vehicle
I would think.

Florida, Mexico, Texas, Kenya,  Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Australian would be a
massively wonderfull place to make salt water bio-diesel.

Change the world big time ...

Toss in regulating medical marijuana ... and getting rid of the Black Market
career criminals ... will stop poisoning the Oceans .. .like stopping
Paraquat .. .the Agent Orange of Columbia.

Waste of money .. and the krazy kristian koolaid poor judgement sh.t.

I can tell you voted for Bush the Worst TWICE ... so you are really one
foxed up dood when it comes to poor judgement.

sumbuddie wear blind sea
Kruse - 28 Jan 2009 00:45 GMT
American cars once they
> are tooled up ... into something like a turbo bio-diesel electric car that
> gets 200 mpg city ... at $1 a gallon ... as the 1 acre pond of seawater will
> make 300,000 miles of energy in a year.

Dream on.
I can assure you that the same people you voted for will add so much
tax to your
seawater that you won't be able to afford to drive anywhere.
Alan B. Mac Farlane - 28 Jan 2009 13:47 GMT
in article
fcd4dbc4-46e2-4a84-9698-08fc35e6cdf1@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com, Kruse at
kruse@kansas.net wrote on 1/27/09 4:45 PM:

> Dream on.
> I can assure you that the same people you voted for will add so much
> tax to your
> seawater that you won't be able to afford to drive anywhere.

I am an Independent .. I voted for Bernie Sanders ...  people stuck in their
toddler tantrum ... have poor judgment as they engage in magical thinking.

If you want an example of what an abused child sounds like you will hear it
in the discussion with Able and Cain ... where Cain says to Able ... "You
are so PRETTY that I have to KILL you so that I can be the pretty one around
here and God will have to LOVE ME."

That is the kind of sick sh.t you have noodling around in your brain based
on your broken heart that lives in fear ... so you will die like any koolaid
drinker.

Drink up ... make the world a better place.

Obamabush is your man ... he is a GOPerp, he is Pat Robertson's nigger
stealing you blind GOPerp style .. which of course you are blind to ..
makes for the poor judgement.

Good luck to waking up ... it hurts like hell any way you do it.

When Pat Roberson's Spearchucking God reaches out and touches your arse let
me know when you get the point ...

sumbuddie wear blind sea

:)
Mike Hunter - 28 Jan 2009 15:36 GMT
Your uninformed or misinformed opinion does not deserve a reply

> in article
> fcd4dbc4-46e2-4a84-9698-08fc35e6cdf1@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com, Kruse
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> :)
Alan B. Mac Farlane - 28 Jan 2009 16:06 GMT
> Your uninformed or misinformed opinion does not deserve a reply

thanking you in advance for the favor !!!
Jeff - 30 Jan 2009 03:30 GMT
> Many of the problems that are driving auto manufactures out of business,
> beside some of the unreasonable regulations,

Might I remind you that the regulations were put into place by a
Republican President and Republican Congress (the Congress was not
Democratic until just over two years ago)?

> is the Obama government want to
> forcing them to make more of the vehicles that buyers do not want to buy, so
> they can make the types of vehicles buyers do want to buy.

Really? How is this want making any difference? GM, Chrysler and Ford
lost billions of dollars. The latest results for the Michigan 3 were
while President Bush was President.

> Every manufactures best selling vehicles, foreign and domestic, are mid size
> cars midsize SUVs and trucks.

Tell that to Toyota. Honda's best-selling vehicle is not a mid-size
car or a truck (an SUV is a truck).

However, even if you were correct, that doesn't mean that a mid-size
vehicle or an SUV can't get good mileage.

Some mid-size vehicles and SUVs get over 40 mpg city.

> specific number of small and midget cars that buyers do not want to buy.
> There is not enough profit in small and midget cars to cover the cost of
> doing business in the US.

Really? Mini seems to be making out all right.

>  Mid size cars and SUVs and trucks can make a
> profit but they must be sold at higher in order to earn extra profit to
> subsidize the lower prices of the small and midget cars.

Higher? You mean higher elevations? What about those people who live
on the coasts. Try to make sense man!

Well, it's called supply and demand. When the demand for small cars
went up last summer and spring, so did the prices. And the prices of
trucks and big cars feel fast.

> If the manufactures are forced to sell even more small and midget cars, the
> price of those type of vehicles will have to go way up.  Everybody looses
> and more sales will be lost to imports that make cars for far less in third
> world countries.

Bullshit. There are very few small cars that are able to be sold in
the US in developing nations. The only cars that are made in
developing nations that could be sold in the US without adding lots of
capacity are some cars made in South America. I don't believe that any
car makers has enough capacity in developing nations to sell many cars
in the US. The only place where they have much capacity to do this and
still make US regulations is in some places in Latin America.

>  The net result we be we will all pay more to buy the
> vehicles and some of the types of vehicles that many of us need, will no
> longer be available.

Really? The vehicles will still be available. And the prices will not
go up substantially.

>   It is time to contact your Senator and Congressman

What if our representative is female? THen we don't have a
Congressman.

> unless you want to be forced to make your family side in less safe more
> expensive small and midget cars  as was the case in the seventies.

Side? What do you mean by side?

>  Wise
> up Americans.

We did when we voted out the Republicans and put in office men and
women who truly represent America!

jeff

> "Green" means more "green" out of YOUR pocket
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Ever been to D.C. where the senators have all their cars lined up? Row
> after row of full-sized luxury cars.
Jeff - 27 Jan 2009 00:24 GMT
> Your ex-Nincompoop In Chief's CAFE (corporate average fuel-efficiency)
> standards law signed in 2007 will raise car requirements to a mere 35
> miles per gallon, and not until 2020!   A typical Bush give-away to
> the already failed U.S. auto industry.

No to mention that the standards are a joke. They get extra for having
flex fuel vehicles.

> "But California's tailpipe emissions rules would have effectively
> required even greater fuel-efficiency increases, by seeking to cut
> vehicles' greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent between 2009 and
> 2016, something American automakers have resisted."

They already make cars that do that, like the Focus, Escape Hybrid and
Fusion Hybrid soon.

Jeff

> ------------------
> "Obama to Take Steps On Car Fuel Efficiency"
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/25/AR200...
 
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