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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / February 2009

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Automatic Trannys - Vote Flush or No Flush?

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Chuck - 15 Feb 2009 23:44 GMT
This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
Escort and its foaming a little and it has slipped twice.  I think the fluid
is contaminated somehow.  Does anyone know if Ford recommends or approves of
ATF flushing or fluid exchanging, (or neither one)?  You have all probably
heard the horror stories of seals blowing out during a transverse (reverse)
flush etc.  I know there are inlet type vs. cooling line pump models and
either probably works better than just dropping the pan alone.

Final thought also... does the Escort have a drain plug on the torque
converter?

Chuck
Jeff - 16 Feb 2009 00:47 GMT
> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
> Escort and its foaming a little and it has slipped twice.  I think the fluid
> is contaminated somehow.  Does anyone know if Ford recommends or approves of
> ATF flushing or fluid exchanging, (or neither one)?

Did you ask the service department at the local Ford dealer?

Did you look on the ford web site?

Jeff

>You have all probably
> heard the horror stories of seals blowing out during a transverse (reverse)
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Chuck
Chuck - 16 Feb 2009 02:18 GMT
On Feb 15, 6:44 pm, "Chuck" <ch...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together. I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of
> ATF flushing or fluid exchanging, (or neither one)?

Did you ask the service department at the local Ford dealer?

Did you look on the ford web site?

Jeff

>You have all probably
> heard the horror stories of seals blowing out during a transverse
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Chuck

The local Ford dealership is doing the work this wednesday unless somebody
here says "wait" before then.  Any ideas about the converter plug??
clare@snyder.on.ca - 17 Feb 2009 04:00 GMT
DEINITELY change the fluid. There are several ways to do it, depending
onnhow the car is assembled (whether it has a TC drain or not)

It is recommended service on MOST cars.
Alan B. Mac Farlane - 16 Feb 2009 02:06 GMT
> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together.

well, at 86K miles ... you are coming up to the 90K miles R & R to all
subsystems.

with the auto tranny ... do the repair and replace thingy as required, might
be a tranmission filter in there to swap out - dunno.

however, if the transmission is solid, dry, no leaks ... (an do consider
swapping out the driveshaft bearings while you are down there and chalk mark
for exact replacement fit as it was balanced at the factory) I would
recommend that you use Chevrolet Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid.

It really is worth the cost as to what you get performance wise, it is
almost as good as Red Line products, but way cheaper.  Ford synthetics are a
bit more expensive and not as good IMO and all that rot.

With my experience, it took 400 miles for the tranmission I am working (3
speed diesel) with to adjust to the new Chevy synthetic tranmission fluid
... now it is real sweet to run and use.

sumbuddie hopes this helps

:?
Steve - 16 Feb 2009 03:41 GMT
| > This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
| > throw their opinions and experiences together.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
|
| sumbuddie hopes this helps

The AMSOIL synthetic transmission fluid is less expensive that the
G.M. stuff and is better quality.
http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=1690163&page=storefront/atf

Signature

Steve Spence
Independent AMSOIL Dealer
AMSOIL - The "Once A Year" Oil Change
Unemployed Car Guy - Trying To Earn A Living
35 Years of G.M. Parts Experience
URL: http://synthetic-oil-tech.com/1690163
Email: amsoil1@charter.net

david - 16 Feb 2009 10:02 GMT
> The SPAMSOIL synthetic transmission fluid is less expensive that the
G.M.
> stuff and is better quality.
> http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=1690163&page=storefront/atf

Please, take your spam somewhere else.
Jeff - 16 Feb 2009 13:54 GMT
> | in article qN1ml.518050$TT4.382783@attbi_s22, Chuck at
> ch...@mchsi.com wrote
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> URL:http://synthetic-oil-tech.com/1690163
> Email: amso...@charter.net

Please, no ads.

Amsoil is a multilevel marketing scheme.

Keep your sh.t to yourself.
Steve - 16 Feb 2009 19:06 GMT
On Feb 15, 10:41 pm, "Steve" <amso...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Alan B. Mac Farlane" <al...@sonic.net> wrote in
> messagenews:C5BE0A0B.3F88%alanb@sonic.net...
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> URL:http://synthetic-oil-tech.com/1690163
> Email: amso...@charter.net

Please, no ads.

Amsoil is a multilevel marketing scheme.

Keep your sh.t to yourself.

Only mentioned it because this poster wrote:

"I would recommend that you use Chevrolet Synthetic Automatic
Transmission
Fluid."

See my sig file --- I've sold plenty of the GM Synthetic ATF.

Just stating an alternative to paying top dollar for a product that
isn't as good.

I wasn't off topic and wasn't SPAMMING.  I was contributing to the
conversation.

Go pick on the "car rearview camera, DVD, car accessories, miniture
schnauzer posters.

At least my post had something to do with the conversation.
Signature

Steve Spence
Independent AMSOIL Dealer
AMSOIL - The "Once A Year" Oil Change
Unemployed Car Guy - Trying To Earn A Living
35 Years of G.M. Parts Experience
URL: http://synthetic-oil-tech.com/1690163
Email: amsoil1@charter.net

Hairy - 17 Feb 2009 04:17 GMT
> On Feb 15, 10:41 pm, "Steve" <amso...@charter.net> wrote:
>> "Alan B. Mac Farlane" <al...@sonic.net> wrote in
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>>
>> --

> Please, no ads.
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I wasn't off topic and wasn't SPAMMING.  I was contributing to the
> conversation.

You are spamming. Next time you will be reported to your ISP.
rmac - 16 Feb 2009 19:26 GMT
On Feb 15, 10:41 pm, "Steve" <amso...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Alan B. Mac Farlane" <al...@sonic.net> wrote in
> messagenews:C5BE0A0B.3F88%alanb@sonic.net...
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
>Please, no ads.

>Amsoil is a multilevel marketing scheme.

>Keep your sh.t to yourself.

Steve keeps spamming this group with his ads.
He is typical of spamsoil dealers who want you to
support their multi-level pyramid schemes.  Most of
the money spent on thier products go to commissions
rather than R&D, so Spamsoil products are no longer
API certified and their techology is becoming dated.
Jacknife - 16 Feb 2009 22:17 GMT
> <snip>
>
> The AMSOIL synthetic transmission fluid is less expensive that the
> G.M. stuff and is better quality.
> http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=1690163&page=storefront/atf

Good god, would you stop spamming that unwanted sh.t? NO-f.cking-BODY
wants Spamsoil in this newsgroup. Crawl under a rock and die a slow death.
Tom - 16 Feb 2009 12:33 GMT
at 86k miles, you are rite about 50k miles overdue for a trans service.
if the trans is slipping, it is most likely shot. but if the fluid is
contaminated, you have nothing to loose by getting it serviced. you may get
a few years more out of it, it may go out tomorrow, or it may last forever.
it is a crap shoot.
> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Chuck
Fred - 16 Feb 2009 13:10 GMT
I vote no

> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Chuck
mark - 16 Feb 2009 18:22 GMT
>I vote no

I had a flush done on 93 Olds and 99 Ranger and had problems with both.

On the Olds, the trans would lock up in high gear after the trans warmed up.
It would stall the engine everytime you had to stop.

The Ranger started having intermittent problems after a trans flush.  You
would be sitting at a stop light and after, maybe 5, 10 seconds, boom!  The
truck would lurch and you would swear you had been rear ended.  Didn't
happen a lot but more than a few times.

Drop the pan, change the filter with the fluid.  The flush breaks stuff
loose and causes problems.
Jim Warman - 16 Feb 2009 16:39 GMT
A transmission fluid exchange - yes... a "flush" using a chemical? -
emphaticly NO....

FWIW, the cooler and lines can be reverse flushed - the transmission,
however, cannot...

I know of shops that use their transmission "flushing" machine for fluid
exchanges (sans chemicals) - it speeds the job up and makes a messy task
much neater.

The workshop manual for 01 doesn't indicate the presence of a converter
drain plug.

Now.... for the bad news... your transmission is already "complaining"... A
fluid exchange is a MAINTENANCE operation - sadly, it sounds like there is
going to be a REPAIR operation in your future.

> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Chuck
Chuck - 18 Feb 2009 19:54 GMT
>A transmission fluid exchange - yes... a "flush" using a chemical? -
>emphaticly NO....
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>>
>> Chuck

Job was done by 12:30 this afternoon.  The fluid was exchanged (flushed is a
bad word for this) and refilled with Mercon V ATF (synthetic).  They used
the cooler (vs. pump inlet) method.  The technician said the old fluid was
NOT burnt, just past its service life.  The new synthetic fluid is a
beautiful light clear red and almost looks clear until you wipe it off on a
white shop towel.  The original problem of foaming that was clearly visible
on the dipstick is now gone.  Time will tell if it ever slips again.
Nate Nagel - 17 Feb 2009 00:00 GMT
> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> line pump models and either probably works better than just dropping the
> pan alone.

Well...  I dunno what Ford recommends but fresh clean fluid is always
better than old burned nasty fluid.  That said, at 86K miles you're
already overdue for a fluid change.  I personally would go ahead and do
it, but keep in mind that while it may make it operate correctly again,
it may not - and there is a possibility that a flush or fluid change may
break loose some varnish or other gunk inside there and make it operate
worse than it already does.  The only 100% sure way to fix the issues
you're having with your trans is to have it rebuilt by a reputable shop.
 That said you might as well try a fluid exchange (I would not
recommend a flush with anything other than the recommended ATF) and a
filter change and see what happens.

If it helps any I did have a fluid exchange and filter change done on my
F-150 with E4OD at 130K plus miles with no apparent ill effects (knock
wood.)  I knew it was a crapshoot but I figured I'd rather err on the
side of maintenance.  (I also changed every other fluid in the vehicle
save for the power steering; the latter simply because I haven't gotten
motivated to do it yet.  I am a big believer in a "drive it until it
rusts away to nothing" philosophy of car ownership, although I tend to
"trade up" my old beaters eventually anyhow.  Hopefully the subsequent
owners appreciate my efforts!  I also am a big believer in synthetics,
if no leaks are present.)

From here on out (and with any new car you get) you should really be
changing the fluid every 50K miles, if you keep the car that long - no
matter what the book says.  Just MHO.

> Final thought also... does the Escort have a drain plug on the torque
> converter?

No idea.

good luck,

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

labatyd - 17 Feb 2009 12:44 GMT
>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
>> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> nate

Well I dunno. Once drove a Ramcharger for couple hundred km and never had
any tranny work done. Not even oil changes that I know of. The fleet manager
said leave it alone when consulted during an engine oil change at Mr Lube.
If you give Mr Lube the chance they'll do everything possible to your
vehicle.

I've never touched trannys on any of my own vehicles. I don't know all the
history of some and never drove them till the vehicle died. Only changed the
lockup switch on a Celebrity at 250,000 km and that oil and pan was
spotless. I put oil back in with new filter which I could have omitted.
Chuck - 17 Feb 2009 20:57 GMT
>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
>> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> nate

I am on the schedule for a fluid exchange (not actual flush) for 9:30 in the
morning.  I have decided to roll the dice.

Chuck
Chuck - 22 Feb 2009 03:11 GMT
> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Chuck

Well... it slipped again today just 3 days after a fluid exchange (flush).
Of the 3 times it has slipped now, it always does it with the first 2
minutes after leaving the driveway.  Seems like the colder winter weather is
partly to blame?  Damn... I hoped the flush would do it
Steve Stone - 22 Feb 2009 04:03 GMT
> Well... it slipped again today just 3 days after a fluid exchange
> (flush). Of the 3 times it has slipped now, it always does it with the
> first 2 minutes after leaving the driveway.  Seems like the colder
> winter weather is partly to blame?  Damn... I hoped the flush would do it

Time to bite the bullet and rebuild/replace the tranny (and perhaps
replace the radiator as well, sometimes you can't get all the schrapnel
stuck in there from the failure flushed out and it causes the rebuild to
fail) or donate the car to charity for a tax write off.
Alan B. Mac Farlane - 22 Feb 2009 16:43 GMT
yeppers ... what stony said ... penny wise and dollar foolish now ... up
your technology, get rid of your headaches, have your money buy you
happiness instead ... try biofuel diesel system next time, much easier to
run, longer lasting, and is not suspectable to Bush League Black Chenny
money games of sucking you dry and then killing you off like you were a
Dutch Jew.

If they heat up the Bio-Fuel tank, it will work in ice country even for
petroleum diesel dispite its lower freeze point any where they go ...
bio-diesel spill is not an ecological disaster ... it is food that grows
mold in the tank ... and needs preventive care that way in the fuel mix.

go buy you some happiness and security on future transport.

Australia will be a biofuel exporter in 2 years if they like, change their
whole economy and ecology right quick for the better ... with salt water
bio-fuel ponds making 330,000 miles of energy a year for diesel electric
cars and trucks ... @ $1 a gallon for ships, derrigibles, cars, trucks,
trains, electric plants.

sumbuddie wear blind sea

:?

> Time to bite the bullet and rebuild/replace the tranny (and perhaps
> replace the radiator as well, sometimes you can't get all the schrapnel
> stuck in there from the failure flushed out and it causes the rebuild to
> fail) or donate the car to charity for a tax write off.
Ashton Crusher - 22 Feb 2009 05:39 GMT
>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
>> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>minutes after leaving the driveway.  Seems like the colder winter weather is
>partly to blame?  Damn... I hoped the flush would do it

Hardly seems worth worrying about if it's just the first couple
minutes.
Chuck - 22 Feb 2009 19:04 GMT
>>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
>>> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Hardly seems worth worrying about if it's just the first couple
> minutes.

I agree.  I think its just a cold weather issue.  Will give it a few more
weeks.  I just didn't want to damage it and took it in as soon as it started
slipping.
Nate Nagel - 22 Feb 2009 17:08 GMT
>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups
>> to throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> first 2 minutes after leaving the driveway.  Seems like the colder
> winter weather is partly to blame?  Damn... I hoped the flush would do it

Did they drop the pan, clean it and change the filter after they were
done?  Does your trans have adjustments for the bands?

If you answers are "yes" and either "no" or "yes, and they were
adjusted" then it's rebuild/replace time (or just live with it until it
gets too bad.)

sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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Chuck - 22 Feb 2009 19:04 GMT
>>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
>>> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> to remove the trans and split the case to get to the filter.  Not
> confirmed by me, but that is what they said.
Bob Bailin - 23 Feb 2009 00:22 GMT
>>>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
>>>> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> to remove the trans and split the case to get to the filter.  Not
> confirmed by me, but that is what they said.

That's BS. It has a pan & filter similar to every Escort since 1991. The
3rd gen from 97 on is a pain to remove the pan because the crossmember
is in the way and has to either be dropped or the engine jacked up a bit
to give enough clearance to remove the pan. The filter is easily removed
once the pan is off.

If you've never changed the filter, bring it to a competent AT mechanic
to have it done. If it's clogged it may not suck up enough tranny fluid
when it's cold and thicker to prevent slippage. If the guy changing your
filter shows you piles of clutch material in the pan, don't worry and
don't agree to a rebuild; it's fairly normal unless there's a huge amount
of metal filings to go with it. Just change the filter, filler up and hope
for the best. Should cost around $50 with just a drain & fill.

Bob
Nate Nagel - 23 Feb 2009 00:38 GMT
>>>>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both
>>>>> groups to throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> Bob

I hope Bob is right, I have no knowledge of Escorts.  He's absolutely
right, however, that a clogged filter and the resultant low pressure can
cause slow engagement and slippage.

Just to elaborate on what he said, even if he's right, don't consider
that you've wasted your money for a fluid exchange.  The "old school"
trans service, which is what he's describing, only changes 4 qts. or so
of the ATF that's in the transmission; generally 1/4 or less of its
total volume.  So both really need to be done for a complete service
(and most of your fresh fluid will actually remain.)

nate

Signature

replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Chuck - 23 Feb 2009 00:48 GMT
>>>>>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups
>>>>>> to throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> nate

Thanks.  Both were excellent replies.  I will decide what and where to go
this week sometime.  It did upset me that the pan wasn't dropped and
inspected inside for some sort of debris and a filter change.
Chuck - 25 Feb 2009 03:40 GMT
>>>>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups
>>>>> to throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> Bob
Now that I have done some additional research, it supposedly a real pain!  I
am sure now that is why even the service manager at the local Ford dealer
(yes- Ford dealership told me this) told me it was "permanent."  I would
have paid them to do it so I am really surprised that they just lied like
that and turned down an opportunity to take my money.  I am wondering if I
should report this to Ford Motor Company or not?.
clare@snyder.on.ca - 23 Feb 2009 03:05 GMT
>>>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
>>>> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>> to remove the trans and split the case to get to the filter.  Not
>> confirmed by me, but that is what they said.

Another "last ditch" try - buy a tube of "friction Modifier" from
Ford. It's a real stinky blue stuff designed for positrac rear ends,
and it does wonders on sticky and slow valve bodies.
clare@snyder.on.ca - 23 Feb 2009 03:00 GMT
>> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
>> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>minutes after leaving the driveway.  Seems like the colder winter weather is
>partly to blame?  Damn... I hoped the flush would do it

Put innan extra 1/2 pint of fluid and see what happens.
Chuck - 25 Feb 2009 17:36 GMT
> This question applies to trannys in general but I wanted both groups to
> throw their opinions and experiences together.  I got 86K miles on an 01'
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Chuck
I had the new filter put on today.  I noticed an immediate difference in the
shifting.  It is so smooth now I can barely feel it shift up or down.  It
used to knock or step into gear.  Now its a smooth slide. I hope that on the
next few cold mornings it wont slip anymore.  The mechanic even took digital
photos since I couldn't be there to see the pan when it came down.  Not much
debris, just a small pile of sludgy metal powder accumulated on the magnet.
david - 26 Feb 2009 01:59 GMT
> Not much debris, just a small pile of sludgy
> metal powder accumulated on the magnet.

That is quite normal.
 
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