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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / April 2009Help... BS versus reality?
How much of the following is BS and how much is real? From Chilton... Be sure new wheel hub retainer nuts, tie rod end castellated nuts, hub-to-knuckle retaining bolts, knuckle-to-strut pinch bolt/nut and inboard halfshaft circlips are available. These parts lose their torque holding/retention capabilities during removal and must not be reused. > How much of the following is BS and how much is real? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > parts lose their torque holding/retention capabilities during removal > and must not be reused. Probably correct but I have never ever gone out of my way to replace them unless they are part of the repair parts kit and have not been burned over 40 years. >> How much of the following is BS and how much is real? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > unless they are part of the repair parts kit and > have not been burned over 40 years. My experience has been with trucks mainly but most of the above parts are not recommended for reuse for the reason given in Chiltons. That said, I have reused some of the above and never had a problem, of which I was aware. The torque requirements in the front suspension is critical because of steering. The one odd man out is the inboard halfshaft circlips. These usually are deformed during removal and simply won't do their intended job, perhaps, if reused. Bottom line - its your front end (your car's actually) and your rear end if something fails. DaveD > How much of the following is BS and how much is real? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > parts lose their torque holding/retention capabilities during removal > and must not be reused. In regards to what car (it may make a big difference)? >> How much of the following is BS and how much is real? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > In regards to what car (it may make a big difference)? Circlips/snap rings should never be reused! The very act of installing, then removing them destroys some of their tension. It's one thing to re-use them in a photocopier, and quite another on a car or motorcycle, where it is much more critical. The same holds true for spirol pins/roll pins. Do you really want to risk life and limb over such an inexpensive part? Steve R. > <j...@4hpc.com> wrote: > > How much of the following is BS and how much is real? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > In regards to what car (it may make a big difference)? 2002 Ford Taurus 3.0 (U) The engineers demand that some select hardware is changed at the time of repair... The reasons can be varied... Obviously cotter pins, snap rings, spring pins would be amongst those items changed... snap rings on a selective basis as described by these same engineers or if there is any apparent damage... Torque to yield bolts....' Nuff said. Locking nuts... both nylon insert and stover variety... once they have done their job and then been removed, they are now suspect... Many bolts are called as replacement items simply because they have sealer or thread lock applied to them... If you do re-use hardware, follow a rule of thumb - it should go back in with fresh whatever it had on to begin with.... Often, we will see fasteners that have torque recommendations much higher than the bolt size would indicate.... and no advise to indicate that these are a one time use only... One glaring example are diesel engine fuel injector hold downs... On the 6.0, this would be an 8mm bolt that gets torqued to 26 ft/lb where one would expect to see something in the range of 15 - 20 ft/lb. Any of these engineers has no control over how bolts will be used or re-used... signing off on any re-use clauses could well be a career ending move for an engineer unlucky enough to have the wrong audience... Common sense should be the order of the day (you will find that some fasteners are available locally at most any dealer while others have just never seen any demand to stock) when deciding on whethe to re-use hardware or not. FWIW, if the WSM says "remove and discard", Ford pays for the new fasteners when the repair involved is performed under warranty. > How much of the following is BS and how much is real? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > parts lose their torque holding/retention capabilities during removal > and must not be reused. Jim, I do not think any of the parts listed above (or below) are "torque to yield". Although, the spindle nuts, i.e., the wheel hub retainer nuts, I believe have a nylon insert; however, none of the aftermarket retail stores and only one of five local Ford parts departments carries them. If this was your 2002 Ford Taurus, would you replace them? Thanks! Joe > The engineers demand that some select hardware is changed at the time of > repair... [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >Jim, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Joe If ford parts doesn't carry them that's an indication their mechanics don't routinely replace them. Since most, if not all, of the stuff you listed doesn't get torque to yield and is retained with cotter pins I would not be particularly worried about reusing them other then the c0clips. >>Jim, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >pins I would not be particularly worried about reusing them other then >the c0clips. Depends if they never stocked them, or are out of them (and possibly can't get them). Often items that need replacement on a regular basis on a car more than 5 years old are OUT OF STOCK because more were sold than themanufacturer counted on. FORD is for some reason worse for this than some other companies. > The engineers demand that some select hardware is changed at the time of > repair... [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> parts lose their torque holding/retention capabilities during removal >> and must not be reused. Years ago, my girlfriend had her back brakes of her Mazda done at a Midas shop. About 200 miles later, as she was driving, her back driver's side tire came off (tire, drum, etc). The reason was Midas re-used the the spindle nut when reinstalling the drum. This nut was what Mazda called in thier parts list a "crush nut" which is basically a nut with a slightly different major diameter (the bottom of the inside threads) than the spindle. The action of installation cut the spindle threads into the crush nut, thereby locking it when installed. If you loosened or removed the nut, it had to be thrown away. Very stupid design (or smart if you look at the fact that they charged $5 a nut at the time and they were a dealer only item) The moral of the story is that if the nut is a castle nut and cotter pin design or anything that has a secondary retension device (hardware), replace the cotter pin, retaining ring, etc. but the nut is fine. But if the nut is a self locking type (either nylon or something similar to the above crush nut) with no other mechanical retension, it is suspect - It's you're a.s riding in the car and for the couple bucks for the new hardware it's probably worth it. IYM >The moral of the story is that if the nut is a castle nut and cotter pin >design or anything that has a secondary retension device (hardware), replace [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >IYM With the "crush nut" if it could be tightened PAST it's initial location so solid material was over the "keyway" it could be safely re-used by punching down "virgin" metal into the slot. Otherwise replacement WAS mandatory. An apprentice left the cotter key out of an MG one time - the wheel fell off on ME. That was a ride!! I will admit that I reuse many of the fasteners. Then again, I have had to repair many failed fasteners. Used halfshaft clips bent and jambed inside the tranny. Had to use a sledge hammer to get the shaft to come out (so much for a core deposit). Ball joint nut, threads worn from repeated over tightening. During hard bounce, threads let go and the carter pin sheared, car laying on the ground. I have removed pinch nuts where the flated metal had already started to tear from reuse. And your question doesn't cover some of the new "carbon bolts" that stretch during every tightening. They say to replace because the part either gets damaged during install or removal. To reverse your question, if you don't have the experiance to remove the part without damage and to inspect it for reuse, you need to replace the part. |
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