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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / April 2005Catalytic Converter
I have the PC based OBDII scan tool by Alex Peper and it indicates I have the #2 bank converter going bad (code P0430). I took it to the shop today the mechanic took infrared temp of both converters and had good readings. Seems both are functioning. My question is can a partial plugged converter cause hesitation, power loss and still function? Any ideas? Thanks >I have the PC based OBDII scan tool by Alex Peper and it indicates I > have the #2 bank converter going bad (code P0430). I took it to the > shop today the mechanic took infrared temp of both converters and had > good readings. Seems both are functioning. My question is can a partial > plugged converter cause hesitation, power loss and still function? Any > ideas? Thanks Start with simple, probably needed anyway things first: fuel filter plugs Your code and running problem could be 2 different things. If the car has alot of miles it could be just a worn out cat turning on the light. get the thing running right first, then mess with the cat. A plugged cat can cause power loss but not likely a hessitation from a stop. If its been a while I would just start with a tune up including fuel filter. I retired from this business in 86 about when they started going nuts with emission requirements. After dealing with these shops I figured I'll take a stab at it myself so I bought the OBDII scanner and am learning to use the data supplied by the onboard computer. I've been fighting this problem for a month. The car has been to the shop 3 times and still has problems with dying at stop signs, hesitation, and what feels like a miss at any speed hot or cold, and sometimes shudders when coming to a stop. The car 96 Sable 3.0 single overhead cam with 61000 miles. The parts I have replaced are as follows: plugs wires maf tps egr pcv fuel pressure ok vacuum ok one upstream o2 sensor (bank 2) today which is operating in specs now. According to the scanner the o2 voltage on the sensors are almost running together indicating a bad cat on the #2 bank and the #1 is starting to look bad. Lately it put out the old rotten egg smell which usually indicates rich fuel. The #2 bank was rich and the new sensor took care of that. Since both cats are looking bad I can't hardly belive the fuel injectors are at fault. I haven't been using oil or water which would foul the cats. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks > I retired from this business in 86 about when they started going nuts > with emission requirements. After dealing with these shops I figured [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > belive the fuel injectors are at fault. I haven't been using oil or > water which would foul the cats. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks My old Dodge (DiamondStar, ugh) with EGR stuck open exhibited identical driveability problems. You replaced the valve, but are you certain that is working correctly? On my Dodge, there was an EGR controller that was "tuned" to work with a specific EGR valve. They were supposed to be replaced as a pair. I suppose the new EGR could also be stuck open for some reason. Driving around with an open EGR can quickly plug a cat. Rodney >I retired from this business in 86 about when they started going nuts > with emission requirements. After dealing with these shops I figured [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > belive the fuel injectors are at fault. I haven't been using oil or > water which would foul the cats. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks I didnt see fuel filter in that list, also clean the throttle bore and clean or replace the IAC. Check the voltage on the rear O2 with it warmed up good and at a high idle. Your bad upstream O2 could have fouled the cat. The cat code will not make it run bad. >>I retired from this business in 86 about when they started going nuts >> with emission requirements. After dealing with these shops I figured [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > up good and at a high idle. Your bad upstream O2 could have fouled the > cat. The cat code will not make it run bad. And, if the cat is plugged a good muffler shop can test it. Then while your there have them replace it if so.......A plugged cat will act like its running out of gas, the harder you push it the slower it wants to go. Dont forget that fuel filter, cheap insurance. Forgot fuel filter was 1st also new gas cap. sometime it acts like theres no fuel then she takes off. Throttle body was cleaned also, forgetting things must be getting late. >>>I retired from this business in 86 about when they started going nuts >>> with emission requirements. After dealing with these shops I figured [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >running out of gas, the harder you push it the slower it wants to go. Dont >forget that fuel filter, cheap insurance. if you can find a place to tap into the exhaust ahead of the cat (yank the O2 sensor if nothing else) and install a pressure gauge you can tell real fast if the cat is plugged. Should have only a couple pounds of back-pressure. Pulled o2 sensor installed 0-15 psi gauge got less than 1 psi backpressure. I did install a new ect sensor and seems to be running better. I need to find a test procedure for the cam sensor. Did you ever change that fuel filter? > Pulled o2 sensor installed 0-15 psi gauge got less than 1 psi > backpressure. I did install a new ect sensor and seems to be running > better. I need to find a test procedure for the cam sensor. Also, I've seen ALOT of 3.0l 12valve Tauruses come in with BROKEN cam sensors, they run fine, just the CEL comes on. You didnt put those Bosh platnium plugs in it did you? Those things seems to cause alot of problems. > Pulled o2 sensor installed 0-15 psi gauge got less than 1 psi > backpressure. I did install a new ect sensor and seems to be running > better. I need to find a test procedure for the cam sensor. I used autolites with a new fuel filter first thing I did. I'm looking closely at the DPFE sensor. I see a lot of postings about how this can cause a lot of my symptoms. I need to get a vacuum pump before I can test. Just some tips I gleaned from alldata for a 2000 DOHC 3.0 Duratec, my guess is that they are similar for your 1996 SOHC 3.0. Is the fuel pressure within spec? Too high might cause a rich condition. No exhaust leaks from the manifolds to the muffler? Is the engine running too hot? Coolant level is OK? Catalytic converter chemically inactive? That last one was listed but can't say I know how a cat becomes "chemically inactive". Fuel pressure good, no exhaust leaks, engine runs normal temp, converters according to my scan tool are working satisfactory with correct inlet and outlet temps, I'm leaning toward a bad DPFE which has my symptoms. The backfire may because the computer is trying to lean it out. I just bought a vacuum pump to test the DPFE. DPFE is a very common failure on the Fords. A lot of the 2001-2002 and some 2000 models Fords had a recall. I had mine done at the dealer in Nov 2002. It failed again two years later and I replaced it for twenty bucks or so. I scanned the computer and got P0401 after the MIL went on. It was on for a little while and I got tired of procrastinating going through the pinpoint tests so I just gambled the money on a replacement. Paid off this time. Coincidentally it failed the last time on the same day I got the car inspected at the state inspection station. Wonder if their equipment did it. Well I just finished testing the DPFE checks out fine. Even with the EGR plugged off I still get a stumble at about 50. >Well I just finished testing the DPFE checks out fine. Even with the >EGR plugged off I still get a stumble at about 50. I have a STRONG suspicion you have dirty injectors. Find a shop with a "motorvac" system and give it a go. The problems I'm having are intermitant would the injectors act up all the time? I idles just fine. If I snap the throttle it bogs then backfires through the intake but not always. I'm going to do a compression test this weekend. did you say thefuel pressure is ok? Does it seem to have a dead spot in a certain throttle area/range. Check the tps. If you have a scan tool great. If not you can check the voltage off of it to ground with a digital volt meter. You should see about 1/2 volt at closed, slowley raise it up to wide open and watch for smooth increase to about 4 to 5 volts. Usually the tps will wear out just off idle. It can cause a stumble at take offs and cruise for sure. > The problems I'm having are intermitant would the injectors act up all > the time? I idles just fine. If I snap the throttle it bogs then > backfires through the intake but not always. I'm going to do a > compression test this weekend. It has a new tps but I just got a imrc fault on #2 bank. I have no idea where to look for this control or how to test. Any ideas? Thanks I'm comming around to the same conclusion that I have a leaky injector on #2 bank causing this greif. I guess I'll change the 3 on that side. Everything I've tested points to bank #2. I don't think there is a way to isolate which one it is as it idles fine except when you snap the throttle open it bogs down then sometimes backfires in the intake and it only cuts out under normal driving conditions. >I have the PC based OBDII scan tool by Alex Peper and it indicates I >have the #2 bank converter going bad (code P0430). I took it to the >shop today the mechanic took infrared temp of both converters and had >good readings. Seems both are functioning. My question is can a partial >plugged converter cause hesitation, power loss and still function? Any >ideas? Thanks yes it will also cause engine damage hurc ast Can you remove the exhaust pipe from the exhaust header for bank #2? The idea is to remove the cat from the equation to see how the engine runs under acceleration. Seems like you've tried everything else. No I can't as it connected to bank #1 via a Y pipe. I may have to replace the injectors on the #2 bank even the scanner shows good. I guess it's possible to have one leaking. I pulled the injectors for test and clean and to no surprise to Pro-Flo it had the wrong pintle caps installed. It came from the factory with 39mm orfice and should be a 21mm. Had them cleaned new pintle caps of correct size, reinstalled have my power back with no hesitation or backfire. The 39mm may have ruined my cats yet they haven't set a code. I still get this annoying stutter at highway speeds. After doing some research I find the stutter may be in the transmission do to a dirty filter or speed sensor. Anyone ever expierence what feels like a miss but it is associated with the transmission? >I pulled the injectors for test and clean and to no surprise to Pro-Flo > it had the wrong pintle caps installed. It came from the factory with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > filter or speed sensor. Anyone ever expierence what feels like a miss > but it is associated with the transmission? Glad you found that problem... Ive seen studder/shudder when the car shifts into OD. The fix is a filter change and flush. There are also additives that will stop the shudder. I plan on getting a flush and filter change this week. I hope this will be the end of it for a while. Thank you for your suggestions. |
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