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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / April 2005Aluminum Oil Pan Ford Escape
Since the oil pan is aluminum, is there any certain extra care needed when re- tightneing the oil pan bolt? Eventually I will probably change oil myself only for the convenience of doing it when I want it done. >Since the oil pan is aluminum, is there any certain extra care needed >when re- tightneing the oil pan bolt? Eventually I will probably >change oil myself only for the convenience of doing it when I want it >done. foctard its called a torque wrench foctard lmfao wanna beeeeeeeee hurc ast >>Since the oil pan is aluminum, is there any certain extra care needed >>when re- tightneing the oil pan bolt? Eventually I will probably [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > hurc ast This was a valid question. You don't need to insult others if you choose to answer. In fact, the person you are really insulting is yourself. Jeff All this brings up a good point that if you have an aluminum oil pan, you damn well better have the oil changed by someone who knows waht they are doing. I have heard some real horror stories coming from people who have gone to Jiffy Lube. >>>Since the oil pan is aluminum, is there any certain extra care needed >>>when re- tightneing the oil pan bolt? Eventually I will probably [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Jeff I have yet to see a mechanic using a torque wrench on a oil plug...Is anyone here using a torque wrench for this? > >Since the oil pan is aluminum, is there any certain extra care needed > >when re- tightneing the oil pan bolt? Eventually I will probably [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > hurc ast I too have never seen one use a torque wrench. I think a bit of caution should be used because most aluminum alloys have about 1/3 the strength of steel. One of my collegues mentioned that the clowns at Jiffy lube screwed up his son's Mustang by either over tightening or cross threading the plug. Jiffy Lube didn't want to take responsibility. He had to fight them to get restitution. >I have yet to see a mechanic using a torque wrench on a oil plug...Is anyone >here using a torque wrench for this? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> hurc ast >I too have never seen one use a torque wrench. I think a bit of >caution should be used because most aluminum alloys have about 1/3 >the strength of steel. One of my collegues mentioned that the clowns >at Jiffy lube screwed up his son's Mustang by either over tightening >or cross threading the plug. Jiffy Lube didn't want to take >responsibility. He had to fight them to get restitution. f.ck boys aluminum has been used in oil pads gor years ya focktards time to step into 2005 fock now ya tards wanna get out yer torque wrenches lmfao u go girls hurc ast What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and now I have Fords. As far as I know, the GM cars all had steel or cast iron engine parts. Actually my 85 cutlass had an aluminum intake manifold, I think. I remember the 74 Vega had an aluminum engine and was a lot of trouble. A friend of mine showed me a piston from a Olds cutlass 403 in^3 and it appears to be an aluminum alloy. Aluminum has a wt density of .098 lb/in^3 and steel is .286 lb/in^3. There is a definite mass advantage ot having a lighter piston, but the modulus of elasticity for steel (or cast iron) is 30x10^6 psi as opposed ot 10x10^6 psi for aluminum. The stiffness to mass ratio for steel is the same as that of aluminum, but the strength of hardened (and tempered) steel is way greater than that of aluminum. I guess it has been decide by auto manufacturers that stiffness and strength is not important and mass is important? How long will an aluminum engine last as oppised to cast iron. >>I too have never seen one use a torque wrench. I think a bit of >>caution should be used because most aluminum alloys have about 1/3 [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >hurc ast >What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never >owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >How long will an aluminum engine last as oppised to cast iron. you reallt are retarded race engines are aluminum as well as some old v6 from the 50s old technology hurc ast Hurc: You really suck. Your identity will eventually be discovered and you will be pounded by everyone in this newsgroup. It is inevitable. You are a shitty dog. >>What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never >>owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >hurc ast > Hurc: You really suck. Your identity will eventually be discovered and > you will be pounded by everyone in this newsgroup. It is inevitable. > > You are a shitty dog. Why do you let someone of no consequence control you? >> Hurc: You really suck. Your identity will eventually be discovered and >> you will be pounded by everyone in this newsgroup. It is inevitable. >> >> You are a shitty dog. > >Why do you let someone of no consequence control you? He/She/It doesn't control me. I would like to expose the person for everyones benefit. I wonder what people l like HURC AST did before the internet was invented? Sick people. What a shame. > >> Hurc: You really suck. Your identity will eventually be discovered and > >> you will be pounded by everyone in this newsgroup. It is inevitable. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > He/She/It doesn't control me. I would like to expose the person for > everyones benefit. ^^^^^ That happened a number of years ago. > I wonder what people l like HURC AST did before the internet was > invented? Sick people. What a shame. He probably scribbled (or dribbled) on the bathroom wall. >> Hurc: You really suck. Your identity will eventually be discovered and >> you will be pounded by everyone in this newsgroup. It is inevitable. >> >> You are a shitty dog. > >Why do you let someone of no consequence control you? i made neil look like a fool long ago look how quiet he now is hurc ast > >Why do you let someone of no consequence control you? > > i made neil look like a fool long ago The only person you make to look like a fool is yourself. > look how quiet he now is You're just a blow hard tire buster, hardly worth any effort. But you already know that, don't you Bozo? Sure race engines are aluminum, but they are not built to go 300k miles. Keep it up Hurc, we will figure out who you really are. Better yet, why don't you give us your real email adress and we can send you Christmas cards during the holidays. Wouldn't that be nice? >>What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never >>owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >hurc ast >Sure race engines are aluminum, but they are not built to go 300k >miles. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >O lmfao just come to uni ford in calgary hurc ast I am quite sure that this idiot does not work for ford, because if they found out how bad he flamed them, he would be fired on the spot. it would be nice though to find out if he did, and if so, to send his boss every derogatory remark he has made about fords, then watch him try to weasel his way out of that can of worms > >Sure race engines are aluminum, but they are not built to go 300k > >miles. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > hurc ast >I am quite sure that this idiot does not work for ford, because if they > found out how bad he flamed them, he would be fired on the spot. it would [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> >> hurc ast Maybe we should forward some of these messages to http://www.gotford.com/contact.php Bill >>What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never >>owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > you reallt are retarded If you wish to call someone "retarded" you should learn to spell "really." > race engines are aluminum > as well as some old v6 from the 50s The Ford Pinto was alluminum (the block only). The Ford Probe and the Taurus SHO engines were also aluminum. Some other engines made for Ford by Asian car makers were also aluminum. > old technology Actually, somoe of the technology that went into making the Duratec, like better alloys and better machining is quite new. Jeff > hurc ast >>>What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never >>>owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >SHO engines were also aluminum. Some other engines made for Ford by Asian >car makers were also aluminum. The pinto in North America had cast iron blocks, 1.6L, 2L and 2.3L. GM made aluminum V8 engines (215 olds) back in the sixties. And the Corvair(with cast iron cyls). Then there was the ill-concieved Vega - nothing wrong with the aluminum, but running tinned iron pistons in them was not a bright idea.Aluminum heads go back a LONG way - aftermarket Frontenac heads for Model "T" Fords come to mind. Porsche used aluminum blocks in their water cooled inline and "V" engines. Many other European models also used aluminum blocks.(Renault comes to mind - with cast iron "wet" sleaves) as well as many Asian engines(like the Subaru - with either wet cast iron sleaves or cast in chilled iron sleaves) The soob goes back to the late seventies. A well designed and well built aluminum engine can go 1000000 Km (600000 miles). As for aluminum oil pans, cast aluminum pans go way back too. Old Fiat 124 engines had cast aluminum pans.And it was not a new idea then either. Many engines with cast aluminum pans today also use the pan as the bottom of the crankcase, and the main-bearing "girdle", so the pan is structural. The metalurgy and casting processes have improved markedly in recent decades, making the use of aluminum engine parts a much "sounder" engineering choice. >> old technology > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> hurc ast > What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never > owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and > now I have Fords. As far as I know, the GM cars all had steel or cast > iron engine parts. Actually my 85 cutlass had an aluminum intake > manifold, I think. Here's a real shock for ya; they're making intake manifolds out of plastic now... > I remember the 74 Vega had an aluminum engine and was a lot of > trouble. Porsche used that exact same technology in their engines and had little trouble with it. Never underestimate GMs ability to screw up a promising technology. > A friend of mine showed me a piston from a Olds cutlass 403 in^3 and > it appears to be an aluminum alloy. Ayup. Aluminum has been the material of choice for pistons for decades. On the other hand, I have a steel piston from a diesel engine on my work bench, (makes a dandy ashtray) it must have been replaced for a reason... > Aluminum has a wt density of .098 lb/in^3 and steel is .286 lb/in^3. > There is a definite mass advantage ot having a lighter piston, but the > modulus of elasticity for steel (or cast iron) is 30x10^6 psi as > opposed ot 10x10^6 psi for aluminum. The stiffness to mass ratio for > steel is the same as that of aluminum, but the strength of hardened > (and tempered) steel is way greater than that of aluminum. In he context of this thread, it isn't so. The cast aluminum oil pan will be much more rigid than the light gauge stamped sheet steel oil pan, more resistant to corrosion also. Around here, one can -reasonably- expect to get 6 years from a steel Ford oil pan before it rots out. FYI, you'd be hard pressed to find any "hardened" or "tempered" steel in any engine going back many years. The camshaft is about it, and it isn't all that hard and the hardness doesn't go very deep. > I guess it has been decide by auto manufacturers that stiffness and > strength is not important and mass is important? Absolutely, there are these pesky things called emissions regulations and fuel economy standards. > How long will an aluminum engine last as oppised to cast iron. What type of aluminum and what type of cast iron? Kind of like asking 'how many bubbles are in a bar of soap' no? Your right, my Crown Vic has a plastic intake manifold. They tend to crack. That is why Ford extended the warranty on that part. I guess I never thought of what pistons and engine blocks were made ofnow a days . I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you get some life out of the parts. I am not particulraly happy with the fact that my ball joints and tie rods failed on my 98 Crown Vic so early. The car has 107,000 miles but I do know that these parts failed at about 40,000 miles. I just lived with lousey handling for a couple of years. I couldn't put my finger on the problem until I jacked up the car and found loose front end. The local state inspection did not pick up (or inspect) tihs problem. This is not proof that FORD is crap as sh.t for brains HURC has indicated. I have owned other non FORD brands that failed premature such as the Crown Vic. Still virtually all cop cars are Crown Vics. They gotta have some reliablity for that reason don't they? Maybe the cops don't care about handleablitly? M >> What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never >> owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >What type of aluminum and what type of cast iron? >Kind of like asking 'how many bubbles are in a bar of soap' no? > > I remember the 74 Vega had an aluminum engine and was a lot of > > trouble. > > Porsche used that exact same technology in their engines and had > little trouble with it. Never underestimate GMs ability to screw > up a promising technology. Well, I've seen more than one smoking Porsche.... And don't you suppose that the average Porsche owner takes better care of his car than the average Vega owner? Anybody that spends big bucks on a Porsche is not likely to admit they made a mistake. It was pretty easy to admit you made a mistake when you bought a Vega (even if it was "Car of the Year"). If you overheated your Vega and cooked the block, you blamed GM. If you overheated your Porsche and cooked the block, well Herr Schmidt probably beat you to death.... If only 10% of the Vega owners had problems in the 70's, that would still be more problem cars than 100% of contemporary Porsches. How come nobody mentions the thousand of Honda Civics that burned oil at incredible rates in the early 70's? Why is the Vega the poster child for bad ideas? How about the thousands of Corollas that literally melted away from rust? Even in the relatively benign climate of North Carolina, you could hear early 70's Toyotas, Datsuns, and Hondsa rusting away. My 280Z rusted like there was no tomorrow. Ditto for my Sister's Accord. In fact, the only cars anyone in my family have owned that had actual rust holes were built in Japan (or England:)). I know of several "happy" Vega owners (although none of them could beat my Pinto in an Autocross:)) GM used the technology first. Porsche went to school on GM. Or more correctly, the material supplier learned from GM's agony. At the end, the Vega blocks were OK but by then, nobody cared. Ed > What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never > owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I remember the 74 Vega had an aluminum engine and was a lot of > trouble. But the engines had cast iron cylinder heads. Having blocks and cylinder heads made out of different metals leads to problems with the metals expanding at different rates. This was good for my father, who rebuilt engines. But there were aluminum engines in the 1960s: http://www.slantsix.org/articles/dutra-blocks/alm-block-sl6.htm. The most popular car ever sold (i think around 25,000,000) had an aluminum engine. > A friend of mine showed me a piston from a Olds cutlass 403 in^3 and > it appears to be an aluminum alloy. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > steel is the same as that of aluminum, but the strength of hardened > (and tempered) steel is way greater than that of aluminum. Actually, an alloy is used rather than just aluminum. By mixing metals, you are able to get a metal with better properties. When you have a piston in an engine that is going at 3000 RPMs, you have a piston that is going up and down (or side to side) 50 times a second. That is a lot of force to start and stop the piston. If you reduce the mass of the piston, you are able to reduce the force needed to move and stop the piston by the same proportion. That means less wear and tear on the bearings. And better fuel efficency. > I guess it has been decide by auto manufacturers that stiffness and > strength is not important and mass is important? You only need so much stiffness and strength. > How long will an aluminum engine last as oppised to cast iron. The wear surfaces in an engine are the crankshafts, bearings, piston rings and cylinder walls, valves and valve guides, camshaft and bearings, cam gears and timing chains. None of these parts are aluminum, except the cylinder walls. And with proper lubrication, the cylinder walls don't wear out very fast. (Some engines have steel or iron sleeves). So, aluminum won't wear out any faster than cast iron. Jeff >>>I too have never seen one use a torque wrench. I think a bit of >>>caution should be used because most aluminum alloys have about 1/3 [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >>hurc ast > But the engines had cast iron cylinder heads. Having blocks and cylinder > heads made out of different metals leads to problems with the metals [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The most popular car ever sold (i think around 25,000,000) had an aluminum > engine. IIRC, an aluminium crankcase, cast iron cylinders, and heads!! >> What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never >> owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >The most popular car ever sold (i think around 25,000,000) had an aluminum >engine. If you are talking about the VW Beetle, I'll have to advise you you are wrong. The block of the Beetle engine was a MAGNESIUM Alloy, not aluminum. The heads were aluminum, and the cyls cast iron or steel. >> A friend of mine showed me a piston from a Olds cutlass 403 in^3 and >> it appears to be an aluminum alloy. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >>> >>>hurc ast >>> What cars have used aluminum for oil pans for years? I have never >>> owned one before the Escape. I have owned most GM cars in the past and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > are wrong. The block of the Beetle engine was a MAGNESIUM Alloy, not > aluminum. The heads were aluminum, and the cyls cast iron or steel. Gee, you learn something every day. Thanks. Jeff Did your mechanic friend show you how to use his new tool? Tell him to use his hand next time. It must be new to him, or he would know by now that using it on an oil plug is a waste of time. |
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