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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / February 2006Pick-up Truck Search Finally Over
After agonizing for over a year over which pick-up to buy, I finally picked one. I had a 14 year old F150 that I loved, but my 16 year old son managed to severely injure it (no reverse) which finally forced me into making a decision. The candidates were - Toyota Tacoma Toyota Tundra Ford F150 Chevrolet Colorado Nissan Frontier The winner was the Nissan Frontier. The Frontier was selected more as the last one standing than because it was my initial favorite. Initially, I ranked them: Tacoma Colorado F150 Tundra Frontier I wanted a smaller truck, with 4WD, an automatic, and air conditioning. I eliminated the Tacoma because it was not price competitive. Of the five Toyota dealers closest to me, the lowest quoted price (w/o taxes and tags) was over $26K for a truck that met my minimum requirements (it had options I did not need, but they all did). I really wanted to like the Colorado and was close to buying one, but after setting in the truck and looking at the construction, I just decided to pass. It didn't help that I just had a horrible experience with another GM product (2003 Saturn Vue) and that the Colorado was the second most expensive truck I priced. The F150 was a very very nice truck. For most "ride around" truck buyers, it would be the best. But I hate the fact that they jacked the truck up so high and then raised the bed sides. For my use on a farm, it is just not suitable. Equipped as I wanted it, the Ford had the lowest quoted price but in the end I just decided it was not suitable for me, despite my long term satisfaction with my old F150. I think Ford has decided to copy the Chevrolet Silverado and target the F150 to people who buy trucks as alternate cars that can intimidate the neighbors and occasionally carry light loads. I wanted to like the Tundra. Over the last two years, I have test driven several (regular cab, extended cab, double cab), but in the end it is just a third rate copy of the old style (pre-2004) F150. It is big on the outside, while being cramped on the inside (regular cab) and they don't make a short wheelbase regular cab model (I wanted a shorter truck than the long bed model). Plus, the few I have seen in farm use just don't hold up. The Tundra was the second cheapest vehicle (almost the same as the Ford). The Tacoma is a better truck than the Tundra for me. And from what I have seen, Toyota is about to lay a giant egg with the new even larger Tundra. This left the Frontier. Initially I wasn't even going to look at one, since my feeling was that it was about the same size as the Tacoma and would be priced the same. This turned out to be wrong. The 4WD extended cab Frontier with the V6 and automatic was significantly cheaper than the equivalent Tacoma. The rear seats are a joke, but then I don't plan to use them as seats. The bed height was perfect, and the bed size was good. The V-6 has lots of power (more than needed). The seats are comfortable. The Frontier was not as cheap as the F150 or Tundra, but then it had more options (both the F150 and Tundra were stripped down "work trucks"). The Frontier had more stuff than I needed (power mirrors, power windows, power locks, etc, towing package, bed liner, CD player), but it was so close to the F150 work truck in price, and a better size, that I decided to give it a shot. At over $4000 less than the Tacoma, how wrong could I go? Ed > At over $4000 less than the > Tacoma, how wrong could I go? I wish you the best of luck. I made the exact same decision, for identical reasons, in 1996. In '05 I bought a Tacoma. <G> > After agonizing for over a year over which pick-up to buy, I finally > picked [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Chevrolet Colorado > Nissan Frontier Just curious because I like to know how and why people make their vehicle decisions... I see that you looked at 2 full-size trucks and 3 mid-size trucks, which I can understand. Why not look at the Ford Ranger, Chevrolet Silverado, and Nissan full-size as well? Why not Dodge trucks? <purchase decision process snipped> > Ed Good luck with your new ride!  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > After agonizing for over a year over which pick-up to buy, I finally > picked one. I had a 14 year old F150 that I loved, but my 16 year old [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > at one, since my feeling was that it was about the same size as the > Tacoma and would be priced the same. This turned out to be wrong. Well, it MIGHT always happen that Nissan will turn the corner and make a vehicle that will actually survive, intact, for ten years. Good luck on your crapshoot.. my bet is you'll have an engine and tranny... mebbe the complete running gear.. survive and wish you could transplant 'em. BTW, did you actually LOOK for/at any 10 year old Nissan trucks? SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! Big mistake. You will regret it. (Just kidding. Enjoy your new vehicle.) > After agonizing for over a year over which pick-up to buy, I finally > picked [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > Ed Similar situation, had a 1978 K20, low miles with mansize rust holes about the body. I didn't need the large capacity and size, so looked at smaller trucks. Always had Chevy and looked at Colorado. Not thrilled at no 6 cyl. engine available. When I saw the newer version of the Frontier come out around Dec. '04, waited until the dealers had some in stock. Compared features, looks, etc. of other models you mentioned, and got a Frontier King Cab in Mar. '05. Great vehicle. > After agonizing for over a year over which pick-up to buy, I finally picked > one. I had a 14 year old F150 that I loved, but my 16 year old son managed [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Ed Different strokes! I looked at them all and bought a Tundra. So far I love it. Quiet, powerful, smooth ride... seems to haul crap just fine. The bed dents easily but then again don't they all if you toss rounds of firewood in them... -jeff > After agonizing for over a year over which pick-up to buy, I finally picked > one. I had a 14 year old F150 that I loved, but my 16 year old son managed [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Ed > After agonizing for over a year over which pick-up to buy, I finally > picked [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > Ed My father in-law has a nissan frontier thats 14 years old. It finally started to show spot rust (he lives in wisc) but other than changing oil, the thing has been rock solid for 300,000 miles. Not bad for a 4 banger. > My father in-law has a nissan frontier thats 14 years old. It finally > started to show spot rust (he lives in wisc) but other than changing oil, > the thing has been rock solid for 300,000 miles. Not bad for a 4 banger. I believe oldest Nissan Frontier you will find is only 9 years old. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> My father in-law has a nissan frontier thats 14 years old. It finally >> started to show spot rust (he lives in wisc) but other than changing oil, >> the thing has been rock solid for 300,000 miles. Not bad for a 4 banger. > > I believe oldest Nissan Frontier you will find is only 9 years old. It says Nissan on the back. I assumed it was frontier. > It says Nissan on the back. I assumed it was frontier. It wasn't called "Frontier" back then. It was simply an unnamed "pickup", just like Toyota's pickup before the "Tacoma" name was adopted. The Frontier name first appeared for '98. >> It says Nissan on the back. I assumed it was frontier. > >It wasn't called "Frontier" back then. It was simply an unnamed "pickup", Unless it was a "King Cab". I had a 1996 Nissan King Cab. >>> My father in-law has a nissan frontier thats 14 years old. It finally >>> started to show spot rust (he lives in wisc) but other than changing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It says Nissan on the back. I assumed it was frontier. A 14 year old Nissan truck would just be Pickup. The Frontier name was introduced in the late 1990's. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >My father in-law has a nissan frontier thats 14 years old. It finally >started to show spot rust (he lives in wisc) but other than changing oil, >the thing has been rock solid for 300,000 miles. Not bad for a 4 banger. Especially since the Nissan Frontier was introduced in '97. <G> Ed, Thanks for supporting US workers! We all appreciate it. Not! By the way, I have a neighbor with a Fronteer that has been in the shop twice in its first 4 months. My 2005 F150 has never been back and everything is perfect... Kirt > After agonizing for over a year over which pick-up to buy, I finally > picked [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > Ed >Ed, > >Thanks for supporting US workers! We all appreciate it. Not! Aren't Frontiers built in Tennessee, or at least in the US? My '96 King Cab was, proudly proclaimed by a blue and white window decal. Heck, my Tacoma was built my NUMMI, in Fremont, CA, a former GM plant. My Subaru Outback is from Indiana. If you're going to break someone's balls about their vehicle, at least you can learn some facts first. My 92 Sentra SE-R was built in Smyrna Tennessee. My 94 Trans Am was built in Canada. Forget which one is the "American" car. >>Ed, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If you're going to break someone's balls about their vehicle, at least > you can learn some facts first. The NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA is NOT a former GM plant, it is a GM/Toyota plant. The Union contract if force at that plant requires the component parts of all vehicle made therein be at least 75% American. The GM/Toyota plant is the only unionized plant that builds Toyota vehicles. It is easy to determine where a vehicle was made, as well as of what percentage of the parts are American. Under federal law if the first number of the VIN is as follows the vehicle was: '1' Made in the US of at least 70% American parts. '2' Made in Canada of at least 40% American parts (could be 100% American parts) '3' Made in Mexico of at least 40% American parts (could be 100% American parts) '4' Only Assembled in the US of less than 70% American parts but more than 40% '5' Only Assembled in the US of less than 40% American parts (could be zero American parts) 'J' Made in Japan 'K' Made in Korea (etc.) I.E. Current Tundra and Camry models exhibit a '5' or a 'J' mike hunt >>Ed, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If you're going to break someone's balls about their vehicle, at least > you can learn some facts first. Oh goodie! I get to correct Mister Mike Hunter! This will be enjoyable for me because I know that Mr. Hunter knows a lot more about cars than I do--A LOT more :-) Hunt wrote: > '4' [means] Only Assembled in the US of less than 70% American > parts but more than 40%. Almost all the Georgetown, Kentucky Camrys I looked at said 80 percent American parts--not "less than 70 percent" [Buzzer sound please :-P And the Hunter wrote: > Current Tundra and Camry models exhibit a '5' or a 'J' I didn't see one Camry in Columbia, Missouri or Saint Louis, Missouri that sported a 5--they all showed either a 4 or a J. A couple months ago, I also checked the online VIN numbers of Longo Toyota's Camrys in the Los Angeles area because I had briefly considered a trip to the coast to buy a Camry. But luckily, I didn't have to go any further than Saint Louis. "5" refers to Toyota's plant in Indiana, and there ain't a single Camry that comes outta there. For U.S. buyers, those sweet machines come from either Kentucky or, like mine, they come from the Tsutsumi Plant in Aichi Japan. (The Solara comes from Canada.) You ain't been huntin' with the Vice President have ya? I may still be experiencing concussion problems from my last dance with the Tercel, but I know my Camrys!! :-) In your dreams perhaps but not in the real world. The County of origin is the first digit of the VIN. It has nothing to do with the plant, the plant is designated by another digit. Any vehicle that has 80% American parts, by law, the firsts number would be a '1' not a '4' But you are correct that some Toyota do have a '4' as well. Honda, who actually build cars in the US of American parts and exhibit a '1', is the one that complained to the FTC about Toyota falsely advertising that their cars were made in the US.. If you will read the fine print on Toyotas current print and TV ads you will see Toyota is now saying 'Assembled in the US of world sourced parts.' mike hunt > Oh goodie! I get to correct Mister Mike Hunter! This > will be enjoyable for me because I know that Mr. Hunter knows [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > may still be experiencing concussion problems from my last dance > with the Tercel, but I know my Camrys!! :-) Well, it's true that the 11th VIN position *officially* designates the plant: "U" means Georgetown, KY. "Z"=Fremont, CA. "S"=Princeton, IN. "C"=Canada. Japan plants are represented by a number in that 11th VIN position ("3" for example is the Tsutsumi plant--but of course a "3" in the *first* VIN position means Mexico). > "Current Tundra and Camry models exhibit a '5' or a 'J' I have to respectfully disagree :-) Camrys do not show a 5 in the first VIN position. They'll show a "4" or a "J." And almost all the "4" Camrys I saw had an Origin Sticker showing 80 percent American parts and 20 percent Japan. One Camry sticker I saw showed 75 percent American Parts, 20 percent Japan, with no explanation of the remaining 5 percent--but I only saw one unusual sticker like that. Nearly all of the "4" Camrys were "80% / 20%" American-to-Japan parts > Well, it's true that the 11th VIN position *officially* designates > the plant: "U" means Georgetown, KY. "Z"=Fremont, CA. > "S"=Princeton, IN. "C"=Canada. > Japan plants are represented by a number in > that 11th VIN position ("3" for example is the Tsutsumi plant--but of > course a "3" in the *first* VIN position means Mexico). My Camry has ZERO in the 11th position and J in the first position. Which plant in Japan is that? >> "Current Tundra and Camry models exhibit a '5' or a 'J' > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > sticker like that. Nearly all of the "4" Camrys were > "80% / 20%" American-to-Japan parts > My Camry has ZERO in the 11th position and J in the first position. > Which plant in Japan is that? I don't have a definitive list of Japan plant codes. And Google is giving me contradictory information about what number goes with what plant. For instance, if you look at either Page 47 OR Page 45 of the "2005 Import Color Chip Book," you'll see what I mean by contradictory information. Here is a link to that 2 megabyte pdf file: http://www.martinsenour-autopaint.com/shared/formula/documents/2005_MS_Import_Co lorBook.pdf Does anyone have a good web link for the VIN plant codes for Japan? I thought I could find them through a straight-forward Google search, but it's not yielding anything useful and definitive. For example, the "1982 Celica" page you'll come across in a Google search contradicts the 2005 Chip Book mentioned above. Oh well.... I can't say with certainty now if "3" refers to Tsutsumi or not. The American letter codes are easy to find, but the Japan number codes are not. Gee, searching Google ain't anything like searching Lexis-Nexis. Of course, searching Google is free, and searching Nexis might cost you 50 bucks a pop--for one search! I used to have free online access to Nexis searches, but don't anymore. Nexis was wonderful. It was like having Bullwinkle, "Mr Know-It-All" sitting next to you. You could pretty much ask it anything and find the answer FAST. Nexis is one helluva database. > Gee, searching Google ain't anything like searching Lexis-Nexis. Of > course, searching Google is free, and searching Nexis might cost you 50 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Nexis is one helluva database. Senator Google, I knew Lexis-Nexis. Lexis-Nexis was a friend of mine. Senator Google, you're no Lexis-Nexis. Hmm, Lexis-Nexis "Ala Carte" service is available on line at reasonable prices. LexisNexis.com >> My Camry has ZERO in the 11th position and J in the first position. >> Which plant in Japan is that? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > The American letter codes are easy to find, but the Japan number codes > are not. I want to that URL and here is the Toyota data: Model Year Designation (10th character of VIN number) Code Year 5 2005 4 2004 3 2003 2 2002 1 2001 Y 2000 X 1999 W 1998 V 1997 T 1996 S 1995 R 1994 Assembly Plant Codes (11th character of VIN number) Plant Code Plant U Georgetown, Kentucky Z Fremont, CA (NUMMI) C Cambridge, Ontario S Princeton, Indiana 2 Motomachi, Japan 1 Tahara, Japan 0,1,9 Tsutsumi, Japan 0,1,9 Takaoka, Japan 1 Nagakusa, Japan 1 Sagamihara, Japan 1 Hamura, Japan 1 Fujimatsu, Japan > Assembly Plant Codes > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > 1 Fujimatsu, Japan Well that's what I mean by contradictory information. In that 2005 Color Chip Book list, "1" is listed next to both the Tsutsumi plant and the Takaoka plant and a few other names, including Tahara. Also 0,1,9 refer to both Takaoka and Tsutsumi. Maybe somebody can interpret these unusual alpha-numerics? I'm sure you will find a number near a color chip to be a footnote LOL mike hunt >> Assembly Plant Codes >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > including Tahara. Also 0,1,9 refer to both Takaoka and Tsutsumi. > Maybe somebody can interpret these unusual alpha-numerics? > The NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA is NOT a former GM plant, it is a GM/Toyota > plant. The Union contract if force at that plant requires the component > parts of all vehicle made therein be at least 75% American. The > GM/Toyota plant is the only unionized plant that builds Toyota vehicles. The NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA IS a former GM plant and produced pickups prior to the GM/Toyota JV. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) Perhap you need to do a search of NUMMI if that is what you believe. ;) mike hunt >> The NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA is NOT a former GM plant, it is a >> GM/Toyota plant. The Union contract if force at that plant requires the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA IS a former GM plant and produced pickups > prior to the GM/Toyota JV. > Perhap you need to do a search of NUMMI if that is what you believe. ;) > > mike hunt this is from the NUMMI web site: http://www.nummi.com/timeline.html According to the NUMMI web site, GM ceased truck production in 1982, NUMMI started in 1984 ;-) SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>Ed, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >If you're going to break someone's balls about their vehicle, at least >you can learn some facts first. Years ago my mom bought a Mercury because she wanted an American car...yeah...made in Mexico. > Ed, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Kirt American union workers that are killing the American brand name? Plus - how many American trucks are built in Canada and Mexico? At least Japanese build them here in the US The majority of the Toyota light trucks sold in the US are imported not made in the US. GM and Ford build more light trucks in the US in two weeks, that are made of at least 70% American parts, than Toyota sells trucks in a year. With the exception of the Toyotas made in the GM/Toyota plant, those so called made in America Toyota cars and trucks are only assembled in the US of mostly imported parts. Check the first number of the VIN you will find a '5' not a '1' mike hunt "Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message > American union workers that are killing the American brand name? Plus - > how many American trucks are built in Canada and Mexico? At least Japanese > build them here in the US > The majority of the Toyota light trucks sold in the US are imported not > made in the US. GM and Ford build more light trucks in the US in two [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> how many American trucks are built in Canada and Mexico? At least >> Japanese build them here in the US http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/05/24/fin_toyota_boss.html Toyota Motor Corp. produced more than 1 million vehicles at its North American assembly plants last year, and the Japanese automaker isn't slowing down. Fujio Cho, TMC president, said Tuesday during a brief stop at Toyota's North American manufacturing headquarters in Erlanger that his company, now this country's fourth-largest automaker, will continue to produce as many vehicles in the United States it can sell. Toyota now operates four North American assembly plants employing more than 30,500. 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and less desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the vehicles in the US of mostly imported parts that sell for 20% to 30% more than comparable sized and equipped domestics. Get real. Do a bit of research the only manufacture that actually builds the majority of their vehicles in the US of mostly American parts are the domestics and Honda. All of the others only assemble vehicle in the US of foreign parts. mike hunt >> The majority of the Toyota light trucks sold in the US are imported not >> made in the US. GM and Ford build more light trucks in the US in two [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Toyota now operates four North American assembly plants employing more > than 30,500. > 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and less > desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the vehicles in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the US of mostly American parts are the domestics and Honda. All of the > others only assemble vehicle in the US of foreign parts. My Frontier has a "1" for the first digit. I assume that means it was built in the US and contains mostly US made parts. Right? Ed > 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and less > desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the vehicles in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > mike hunt My 2005 Toyota Sienna minivan has 90% of american parts in it (so says my sticker). Thats more than the suburban, at 50%. Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each. >>30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and less >>desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the vehicles in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each. Bonuses are monies that should have been paid as wages in the first place >>>30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and >>>less desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> > Bonuses are monies that should have been paid as wages in the first place Performance bonuses make people work better. You reward with bonuses. Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law ;) mike hunt >> 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and >> less desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each. > Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law > ;) > > mike hunt I'm no expert on VIN decoding but accordinng to this federal government site http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/49cfr565_05.html it looks like within certain parameters, it is up to the manufacturers to code their VINS. According to Toyota's faq, here is information on decoding Toyota's VIN: The Vehicle Identification Number, commonly referred to as the VIN, is a sequence of 17 letters and numbers that is uniquely assigned for each vehicle. The VIN can usually be found on the driver's side dashboard near or under the bottom portion of the windshield. It can also be found on the certification label found on the driver's doorjamb on most vehicles. The VIN provides some information about the vehicle. It is typically composed of four sections. The first three digits are called the World Manufacturer Identifier (WMI). Toyota VINs starting with "1", "4", or "5" represent vehicles assembled in the United States and VINs beginning with "2" indicate vehicles assembled in Canada. Vehicles with VINs that start with "J" were produced in Japan. The next five digits (4 through 8) are the Vehicle Description Section (VDS). These digits provide information on the vehicle model, body style, and engine type. The ninth digit is a check digit used internally. The 10th digit indicates the model year; letters (except "O" and "Z") were used for vehicles up to the 2000 model year while numbers are used for 2001 and newer vehicles. For example, "X" means the 1999 model year, "Y" is the 2000 model year and "1" represents the 2001 model year. The 11th digit is the plant code. Finally, digits 12 - 17 are the unique serial number. AFAIK, the government does not require, and Toyota does not use a unique number to represent parts content in its VIN. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>> 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and >>> less desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each. http://www.vinpower.com/vininformation.aspx SignatureSteve Williams > > Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law > > ;) [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >> > >> Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each. > http://www.vinpower.com/vininformation.aspx Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an answer as to why three separate numbers in the first VIN position can refer to the United States: 1, 4, and 5. We know that 2 refers to Canada, and 3 means Mexico, but why should the U.S.A. have 3 numbers devoted to it? Mike says the 3 different numbers make distinctions as to the percentage of North American auto parts found in a vehicle--with 1 being the highest percentage and 5 the lowest. The only problem with that is we've seen Camry VINs starting with a 4 that have Origin Stickers showing 80 percent North American parts, and we've seen Sienna VINs beginning with a 5 that show 90 percent American parts. Mike, you still might be right, but you're not providing us with any sources to back up your claim, and sources to explain the Sienna and Camry examples. I've now spent 21 dollars at LexisNexis.com, downloading 7 different documents, and I still haven't found a definitive answer as to the Mystical Meanings of "1," "4," and "5"... Can you believe it: each of the documents I've read says that 1, 4, and 5 mean United States, but none describes the differences between 1, 4, and 5! [chuckle] How exasperating. Whoever comes up with this answer deserves a free vacation to Las Vegas, paid for by the regulars of this Toyota newsgroup! > Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading > the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Whoever comes up with this answer deserves a free vacation to > Las Vegas, paid for by the regulars of this Toyota newsgroup! I believe that it refers to the percent of domestic parts content in car, even though all are assembled in US or Canada. Decoding Your Toyota VIN **Model Years 1982-1995** *1989: newer VIN Plate on passenger cars is located on the inside of drivers door* *Prior to 1989: VIN Plate is located on firewall within engine compartment* Digit Position Position ---------------- ----------- #1------------------------Country-J=Japan #2------------------------Manufacturer-T=Toyota #3------------------------Type-2=Passenger Car #4-#8--------------------Line,Series,BodyType,Engine,Restraint **********************(not necessarily in this order) **************** #9------------------------Check Digit #10-----------------------Year- B=1981 C=1982 D=1983 E=1984 F=1985 G=1986 H=1987 J=1988 K=1989 L=1990 M=1991 N=1992 P=1993 R=1994 S=1995 #11-------------------------Assembly Plant- C= Ontario, Canada O= Supra plants U=Gergetown, Kentucky Z=Fremont, California #12 - #18------------------Sequential Production Number >> Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading >> the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >I believe that it refers to the percent of domestic parts content in car, >even though all are assembled in US or Canada. > Decoding Your Toyota VIN > **Model Years 1982-1995** [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > #12 - #18------------------Sequential Production Number Here are some Ford VINs. The curious thing that I have noticed about all Ford Motor Company VINs is that the last 6 digits always begin with a letter, rather than a number. I have never seen the last 6 digits of a VIN for any other manufacturer that wasn't all numbers. 1FTYR10U93TA14791 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10D74PA26948 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10D34PA26963 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10D34PA27000 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10VX3PA43449 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10D14PA59590 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10D54PA59592 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10D64PA59603 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10D23PA73013 - Ranger PU 1FTYR10UX3PB66894 - Ranger PU 1FTNE24LOYHB56267 - Ford Econoline Van Tips to understanding your vehicles serial (VIN) number They are as follows: 1st character- Identifies the country in which the vehicle was manufactured. For example: U.S.A.(1or4), Canada(2), Mexico(3), Japan(J), Korea(K), England(S), Germany(W), Italy(Z) 2nd character- Identifies the manufacturer. For example; Audi(A), BMW(B), Buick(4), Cadillac(6), Chevrolet(1), Chrysler(C), Dodge(B), Ford(F), GM Canada(7), General Motors(G), Honda(H), Jaquar(A), Lincoln(L), Mercedes Benz(D), Mercury(M), Nissan(N), Oldsmobile(3), Pontiac(2or5), Plymouth(P), Saturn(8), Toyota(T), VW(V), Volvo(V). 3rd character- Identifies vehicle type or manufacturing division. 4th to 8th characters- Identifies vehicle features such as body style, engine type, model, series, etc. 9th character- Identifies VIN accuracy as check digit. 10th character- Identifies the model year. For example: 1988(J), 1989(K), 1990(L), 1991(M), 1992(N), 1993(P), 1994(R), 1995(S), 1996(T), 1997(V), 1998(W), 1999(X), 2000(Y)------2001(1), 2002(2), 2003(3) 11th character- Identifies the assembly plant for the vehicle. 12th to 17th characters- Identifies the sequence of the vehicle for production as it rolled of the manufacturers assembly line. >> Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading >> the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >I believe that it refers to the percent of domestic parts content in car, >even though all are assembled in US or Canada. >Tips to understanding your vehicles serial (VIN) number > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >production >as it rolled of the manufacturers assembly line. My 2005 Tacoma starts with 5TEUU42... It's made in Fremont, CA, USA @ NUMMI, so I'm assuming "5" as a first digit is USA. <snipped> > My 2005 Tacoma starts with 5TEUU42... > > It's made in Fremont, CA, USA @ NUMMI, so I'm assuming "5" as a first > digit is USA. OK, that kills my theory! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) I've posted that information several times '1' Made in the US of at least 75% American parts. '4' Assembled in the US of up to 70%, but not less than 40%, American parts. '5' Assembled in the US of less than 40% American parts. It has been a long time since I needed to know, so I don't remember for sure which digit it is, but the forth or fifth designates the restraint type. A different letter for manual bets, automatic belts, driver only bag, driver and passenger bag, side air bag, curtain air bags, whatever. One can search the Congressional Record of the NHTSA VIN numbers required for vehicles offered for sale in the US . mike hunt > Tips to understanding your vehicles serial (VIN) number > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from > http://www.SecureIX.com *** > Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law > ;) > > mike hunt Mike, I dont know anything about VINs but I do know that on the window sticker it said 90% american parts and made in USA. Thats the 2005 Sienna. My 2003 4runner was all Japanese parts and made in Japan. My 2006 Corvette was 80% american parts and made in USA. > Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law > ;) > > mike hunt BTW Check out this corvette forum thread (I own a 2006 C6 corvette and I have no problems) but see that only 58% of people polled have no problems, others do. Shows that quality issues still exist at GM. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1316978&page=1&pp=20 Ray, I appreciate reading all your posts concerning Toyota mechanical problems. They are very informative, and I thank you for them. You know your stuff. But I have to challenge you here. Technically, it's the ELEVENTH vin position that refers to the plant. Recall my much earlier posting in this thread (I've included a brief excerpt of it at the end of this message). The first vin position involves the country of origin. Now, I too, like you, originally thought that 1, 4, and 5 in the FIRST vin position *OF TOYOTA* vehicles (as opposed to NISAN or DODGE) also referred to the *TOYOTA* plant of final assembly--perhaps just a redundant reference to the plant in addition to the ELEVENTH vin position (the ELEVENTH *officially* refers to the plant). But Mike immediately challenged me, saying 1, 4, and 5 in the FIRST vin position of Toyotas is NOT a redundant reference to the plant. He says it refers to the percentage of North American auto parts found in the vehicle. Considering that I have read independent sources confirming that the ELEVENTH vin position officially refers to the plant, having the FIRST vin position also refer to the plant is rather redundant. But Ray you might be right. However, both of you cannot be right--both you and Mike. Here's the excerpt from my earlier post: "....the 11th VIN position *officially* designates the plant: "U" means Georgetown, KY. "Z"=Fremont, CA. "S"=Princeton, IN. "C"=Canada. Japan plants are represented by a number in that 11th VIN position ("3" for example may be the Tsutsumi plant--but of course a "3" in the *first* VIN position means Mexico)." I don't even care, personally. I can't afford to buy anything other than what I think is going to have the best chance of being a reliable vehicle that runs forever. For me, the Japanese rule that roost, period. If or when the US automakers make a comparable product, they MIGHT get me back. Maybe. I simply can't afford to buy something that turns out to be poorly engineered 5 years later. I mean... how hard is it to spray white paint, and yet there's all those Chev's and Dodge rigs out there with peeling paint. And those company's did nothing to make it right. Or those notorious Chrysler auto trannies. -jeff > 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and less > desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the vehicles in [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> Toyota now operates four North American assembly plants employing more >> than 30,500. >I don't even care, personally. I can't afford to buy anything other than > what I think is going to have the best chance of being a reliable vehicle [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >>> Toyota now operates four North American assembly plants employing more >>> than 30,500. I hear you. I sold my 2001 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 extra cab for 3000.00 less then I paid for it. And this was 4 yrs after I bought It. The only reason I sold It was that it getting only 14 MPG and gas prices were 3.05 for 87 OC here In Calif. I bought a Chev Colorado and I know It's not going to be any where near what I sold the Toyota for. The price of gas Is the only reason I sold It. When I bought it new in 2001 the price was under 1.00 a gallon. Insurance went down a little for the Colorado. About 150.00 a yr. I bought the 7yr Insurance repair plan from the dealer. Never once did I have to take the Toyota in for repairs other then the every 3000 mile oil change. With the new Colorado it's been in the shop 3 times in the past 10 months. This was the 1st and last time I will buy another Chev. I love the truck, But spending time at the dealership sucks. I like It when they tell me that I'll have to leave It for the day. You need It all day to do a 30-45 min fix ? I have a appointment. Me and the service mgr. went around and around with that more then once. The best part Is when the company sends me the rate the truck and dealership forms. I rate them both so low, that they don't send them to me anymore. :) Waste of time anyway. They never contact me asking me how can we help you with the problems. When I took the Toyota in for oil changes, I would get a rate us card from the dealership and another one from Toyota. I filled it out and sent it back. A few times I would get a free oil change for spending a few min's to fill it out and return it. The Dealership told me when I fill out the one for the company they will send me a free thing of touchup paint. ( I never got it ) Not that I care. When I bought my Colorado the dealership said, You will be getting your 1st oil change free. We will send you a free coupon in the mail. I never got it, I never asked for it. Why ? I don't let them touch it unless it's under the factory 7 yr. plan. They charge 34.50 for a oil change. I can go to a tire store that has a ASE guy that will change it for under 22.00 I took it to the dealership for a front end alignment. After the 2nd time it was still off. The time spent going to the dealer and waiting cost me more then It would have to take it to the tire store. After the 2nd time, I did take it to the tire place. It was fixed the 1st time and half the wait. I sent the dealership the bill and a copy to chev. I gave them two weeks to pay. They did not. I went to small claims court. They never showed up for court. The judge ruled in my favor and added on the court cost and a extra 100.00 for my time. Gave them 15 days to pay the court. I got the check from the court in 13 days. Yeah, I can't wait to buy another. NOT! > The majority of the Toyota light trucks sold in the US are imported not > made in the US. Unless Toyota has changed its production mix, I thought the majority of Toyota trucks sold in the U.S. were assembled in the U.S. due to high truck tariffs. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) Higher tariffs on truck went away in the late eighties. mike hunt >> The majority of the Toyota light trucks sold in the US are imported not >> made in the US. > > Unless Toyota has changed its production mix, I thought the majority of > Toyota trucks sold in the U.S. were assembled in the U.S. due to high > truck tariffs. > Higher tariffs on truck went away in the late eighties. > > mike hunt Regardless of truck tariffs, the majority of pickup trucks sold by Toyota are assembled in the U.S. On the other hand, SUV's other than the Sequoia are primarily assembled in Japan. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) Precisely, merely assembled of mostly foreign parts, but not made in the US. That is why they have a '4' '5' or 'J' and not a '1' The only exceptions are those vehicles made in the GM/Toyota plant in California, where the UAW contract requires 75% American parts, those vehicles have a '1' as required by federal law. mike hunt >> Higher tariffs on truck went away in the late eighties. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > are assembled in the U.S. On the other hand, SUV's other than the Sequoia > are primarily assembled in Japan. > Precisely, merely assembled of mostly foreign parts, but not made in the US. > That is why they have a '4' '5' or 'J' and not a '1' The only exceptions > are those vehicles made in the GM/Toyota plant in California, where the UAW > contract requires 75% American parts, those vehicles have a '1' as required > by federal law. Mike, why don't we make a little friendly wager. I will bet you $100 that if you go to a Toyota dealership this week and look at the new 2006 Camrys, you will see that their VINs begin with either a 4 or a J--not a 5 as you wrote in an earlier post. And looking at the Origin Stickers of those cars, you will see that the "4" cars will range between 75 and 80 percent American parts (most will be 80 percent). Even my J-Vin Camry which was assembled in Japan AND whose engine and transmission are Japanese in origin--even my car's Origin Sticker still shows 80 percent American parts and 20 percent Japanese. (I wonder if the engine and tranny are each counted as only one part when determining the parts percentages??) Anyhow, a friendly $100 bet payable through PayPal.com. Willing to bet? :-) I say Mike is NOT willing to bet [chuckle] :-) As Hachi and I mentioned months ago, and as wacky as it may sound, for the 2006 Camry they must have shipped a whole lot of American parts over to Japan because even the J-Vin '06 Camrys show on their Origin stickers 80 percent American parts. Kinda odd. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't we be shipping Japanese parts here? Interesting thing to note is that the '05 and '06 RAV4s show different numbers in the 11th spot of their VINs. The '05 RAVs I've checked on the net have a zero for their assembly plant VIN position while the '06 RAV shows a 5. (American plants are designated by a letter, but the Japan plants use a number.) Still searching for the elusive Japan plant code legend... Incidentally, the '06 J-Vin RAV4 I saw on my local dealer's lot showed 100 percent Japan parts, but not so the '06 J-Vin Camry. Even the J-Vin Camrys for 2006 show 80 percent American parts. I wonder if the same is true for the 2005 Camry and 2004? How long has this been going on? I mean American auto parts are great, but I bought a J-Vin Camry because I wanted a Japanese car to replace my J-Vin Tercel (may it rest in peace). If I wanted a Malibu, I woulda bought a Malibu. Any '05 or '04 "J-Vin" Camry buyers remember what their Origin Stickers said? I'm guessing you probably don't remember, because the dealer usually throws away the Origin Sticker when prepping your car for you to take home. The dealer will hand you the "Window Sticker" (at least mine did) but the Origin Sticker was trashed, and I didn't remember to ask for it. I wonder if the '05 and '04 Camrys assembled in Japan also show 80 percent American parts, like the '06 does? > Ed, > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] >> >> Ed My Colorado has been in the shop 3 times in the past 6months. Tacoma never went in for anything. Thanks for buying American ? I'll rethink that the next time I buy American. American and proud of it. > Ed, > > Thanks for supporting US workers! We all appreciate it. Not! Well my Frontier was built in Tennessee and has enough content to qualify as a US built vehicle ("1" for the country code). The way things are now, I suspect my Frontier has close to the same US content as your F150. > By the way, I have a neighbor with a Frontier that has been in the shop > twice in its first 4 months. My 2005 F150 has never been back and > everything is perfect... My 1992 F150 was a great vehicle. I have no doubt that your 2005 is as well. Unfortunately, Ford has aimed the F150 at the Chevy Silverado buyers. It is no longer a work truck. It is now more like a car with a pick-up bed on the back. The 4WD versions are jacked up way too high and the bed sides are too high as well. It is difficult to reach into the bed from the side to lift out items that I need when planting crops, or working on fences. This is unimportant if you are just riding around in the truck, but if you use it like I use a truck, it makes it non-competitive choice (although I did consider one). As I said before, I wanted something smaller and more useful than the current F150 or Silverado. The Ranger is too small (we have owned 5 of those). I did strongly consider the Colorado, but in the end it was more expensive than the Frontier, and just did not seem as well built. Ed |
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