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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / March 2006

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When the Japanese Take over the the US Auto Industry the US will have Hell to pay

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Booboo Baker - 05 Mar 2006 01:02 GMT
As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
competition I suspect the quality control to go down on these cars to an
extent. With the less competition with Ford and GM 6 feet under the Japanese
would have won the war and finally put a close to WWII once and for all.
Quality will fade and japan will more than likely begin to cut corners while
racking in tremendous profit. Customer service as well as repair will
probably also suffer. So all of the Americans who now suck up to Japanese
car companies will realing know what sucking means when all is said and
done.
Jon R Patrick - 05 Mar 2006 01:12 GMT
> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US
> auto industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> of the Americans who now suck up to Japanese car companies will
> realing know what sucking means when all is said and done.

Because, of course even IF the us auto manufacturers did 100% shut down,
there's no korean, european, or upcoming chinese manufacturers to
provide competition to the japanese brands.

you're friggin' brilliant, troll.
JP
Booboo Baker - 05 Mar 2006 01:26 GMT
>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US
>> auto industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> you're friggin' brilliant, troll.
> JP

GM and Ford are the major competition for the Japanese in America. I am
brilliant ...yes......a troll ..no.
gosinn@gmail.com - 05 Mar 2006 08:08 GMT
Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners
There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it
will stop
Quality is winning and all manufacturers need better Quality to stay in
the race
Toyota is winning because of better Quality
The other companies are learning from them more or less
Cutting corners is no longer an option
Even GM is not immune to the competition
Only question is if GM will survive
They will no longer be number one
US car industry is gaining from this competition
They had been cutting corners for too long
Al Bundy - 05 Mar 2006 13:31 GMT
> Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners
> There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> US car industry is gaining from this competition
> They had been cutting corners for too long

I doubt quality has slipped in Japan simply because they have little
competition. Their people demand quality. Americans demand different
things. I'm in the minority on this I think, but I don't care much
about fit and finish except if it's a sign of overall poor quality. I
want something simple, low maintenance, reliable, easy to repair and
that runs forever. That also seems to make me the manufacturer's least
valued customer.
Stanely Beamish - 05 Mar 2006 15:02 GMT
>> Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners
>> There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> that runs forever. That also seems to make me the manufacturer's least
> valued customer.

I think you are wrong, for years Japan has been the guinea pig for japanese
cars. They were building and selling shitty cars to there own people first
to iron out all the bugs before introducing them to the US. That has been
there history and it is a fact. Look it up. So the japanese people were
driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced here.
itsme - 05 Mar 2006 22:23 GMT
I don't think this is supportive.  I lived in Japan for three years and saw
many wonderful cars/SUVs before the US ever heard of SUV.  They were also
very good vehicles, including the one's I owned.  This opinion below doesn't
hold water especially when one considers the registration process that
Japanese cars go through.  Keeping a car in Japan gets real expensive after
five years due to the registration /safety (sic) process.  If anything,
their gov't is making the auto machine run by forcing their people to start
looking for a new car after 3 years.  Hey! They never get to the point where
the cars fall apart, unless they are rich and then they don't care. Look
that up.

>>> Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners
>>> There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> That has been there history and it is a fact. Look it up. So the japanese
> people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced here.
Booboo Baker - 06 Mar 2006 06:33 GMT
>I don't think this is supportive.  I lived in Japan for three years and saw
>many wonderful cars/SUVs before the US ever heard of SUV.  They were also
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>> people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced
>> here.

Dont expect that you are going to see the under belly of Japan just because
you lived there for 3 years. Do some studying on how Japan developed its
cars for the US market place.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 03:04 GMT
What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does not
tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to export
cars in numbers to Japan would have succeeded and not failed miserably like
they have.

You cannot possibly actually believe what you wrote.

>>> Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners
>>> There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> That has been there history and it is a fact. Look it up. So the japanese
> people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced here.
Bob - 11 Mar 2006 03:37 GMT
> What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does
> not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to
> export cars in numbers to Japan would have succeeded and not failed
> miserably like they have.
>
> You cannot possibly actually believe what you wrote.

I know I can't believe the crap that has come from your keyboard tonight.
*PLONK*
Ted Mittelstaedt - 11 Mar 2006 07:34 GMT
> > What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does
> > not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I know I can't believe the crap that has come from your keyboard tonight.

Bob, you need to do a bit of research about auto ownership in Japan.

Japan requires very strict vehicle inspections.  As a result, vehicles in
Japan
are usually scrapped after they are about 6 years old, because it's not cost
effective to repair them.  And we are talking they get out the micrometers
to
measure bearing wear.

Why is it done this way?  Well, the vehicle manufacturers have pressured
the government into this so as to force obsolescense and sell a lot more
cars.

Also, the Japanese culture and people are such that the culture prefers
home grown products over imports.  Keep in mind that it hasn't yet been
a century since Japan lost to the United States in WWII.  And this is
a culture that one of their biggest festivals - Obon - takes a week and it's
sole purpose is to honor deceased ancestors.  A lot of Japanese feel
subconsciously that buying American is dishonoring ancestors who were
killed in WWII or fought Americans in WWII.

In the United States the culture is completely different than in Japan.  It
is very common for Americans to project their culture on everyone else.
It is doubtful in the US for example that anyone under the age of 20
could even tell you if any of their grandparents fought in WWII let alone
which ones.  This is a strength of the American culture because it makes
it a lot easier for us to forgive and forget and move on with life.  But
it puts blinders on us when we try to understand other cultures,
particularly
ones that have many many thousands of years of history.  You must
understand that the Japanese culture is very very different than the US.
This is, after all, a society where 30% of the homes have toilets that cost
$1000
and have computers in them.  (and I'm not talking computers that you type
on,
if you want to see a Japanese toilet control panel see here:
http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/techno/toilet/washlet.html )

Ted
E. BOROWICZ - 11 Mar 2006 04:36 GMT
> What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does
> not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>> people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced
>> here.

Remember, that Japan restricts the entry of foreign automobile into their
country.  It is extremely difficult to enter the Japanese market, unlike the
US.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 17:11 GMT
First of all, it is not easy to gain entry to the U.S. market. Their are EPA
and NHTSA hurdles that are significant...like crashing cars and gathering
data.

I do not know that the equivalent Japanese restrictions are harder or
easier, but there is also the matter of them driving on the other side of
the road from us. I do know that the restrictions were eased years ago from
what they were. I doubt that they ever had a 25% tariff on pick-up trucks
like we did for years, by way of comparison.

European brands do quite well in Japan because owning something like a
Bimmer or Merc is very prestigious in Japan. Few American brands are
considered prestigious and most of what the U.S. brands have been making is
simply too large to sell in Japan. The country is very congested, streets
are narrow, and your typical U.S. truck or medium sized sedan or mini-van
would not fit there. Eve if the quality were of a level that they are used
to.

>> What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does
>> not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> country.  It is extremely difficult to enter the Japanese market, unlike
> the US.
Stanely Beamish - 05 Mar 2006 14:56 GMT
> Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners
> There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> US car industry is gaining from this competition
> They had been cutting corners for too long

You have to admit that the UAW is squeezing the hell out of American
companies. If they could get that monkey of they back they could be much
more competitive dollar wise.
Jon R Patrick - 05 Mar 2006 17:54 GMT
> You have to admit that the UAW is squeezing the hell out of American
> companies. If they could get that monkey of they back they could be
> much more competitive dollar wise.

There is some truth to this argument, and the unions have to realize
they need to offer concessions to help be part of the solution or
they're just going to be the final straw that breaks GM. However, it's
not all to be laid at the feet of organized labor.  We're not here to
argue the necessity of unions or not in todays world, but 30+ years of
GM & ford management have agreed to the flawed plans that led to this
place.

JP
Randy Taylor - 07 Mar 2006 00:58 GMT
As a retired maintenance man from GM I have to agree with you. If the UAW
contracts are destroying Ford and GM, why didn't management use some of
their lawyers to find how these would affect future profitablity. They most
likely figured the the goose would always lay golden eggs. I don't see
anything sinister about their decisions, just stupidity. For example look at
the Aztec.

>> You have to admit that the UAW is squeezing the hell out of American
>> companies. If they could get that monkey of they back they could be
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> JP
dh - 07 Mar 2006 02:57 GMT
> As a retired maintenance man from GM I have to agree with you. If the UAW
> contracts are destroying Ford and GM, why didn't management use some of
> their lawyers to find how these would affect future profitablity. They most
> likely figured the the goose would always lay golden eggs. I don't see
> anything sinister about their decisions, just stupidity. For example look at
> the Aztec.

No!  Don't look!  You'll hurt your eyes!

> >> You have to admit that the UAW is squeezing the hell out of American
> >> companies. If they could get that monkey of they back they could be
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Spam Hater - 07 Mar 2006 20:55 GMT
> As a retired maintenance man from GM I have to agree with you. If the UAW
> contracts are destroying Ford and GM, why didn't management use some of
> their lawyers to find how these would affect future profitablity. They most
> likely figured the the goose would always lay golden eggs. I don't see
> anything sinister about their decisions, just stupidity. For example look at
> the Aztec.
No lawyers, good business financial  planners.
Yes they obviously were looking short term and gave it to the unions
when money was flowing in.
Unfortunately GM places too much emphasis on volume of sales, but GMAC
loves big sales.

As for the Aztec, I still can't stand it.  I feel almost as negative
about the Chrysler 300 styling.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 03:13 GMT
OK, I bow to no one in my contempt for idiotic past GM management (can you
say R-o-g-e-r S-m-i-t-h), but to be fair what these clowns were trying to do
was buy a degree of labor peace (get longer term contracts avoiding the
threat of costly annual strikes) with money and benefits that they could not
afford long term. The UAW always had an ace up its sleeve. They could strike
one manufacturer, while it's members in the other two kept paying dues that
went into strike pay for the strikers. Plus, as I recall - may be wrong, the
strikers could get unemployment benefits from the government. Pretty good
stacking of the deck against the manufacturer, no?

>> As a retired maintenance man from GM I have to agree with you. If the UAW
>> contracts are destroying Ford and GM, why didn't management use some of
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> As for the Aztec, I still can't stand it.  I feel almost as negative
> about the Chrysler 300 styling.
Hairy - 11 Mar 2006 04:19 GMT
> OK, I bow to no one in my contempt for idiotic past GM management (can you
> say R-o-g-e-r S-m-i-t-h), but to be fair what these clowns were trying to do
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> strikers could get unemployment benefits from the government. Pretty good
> stacking of the deck against the manufacturer, no?

Would be if it were true. I guess you're not above posting bullshit, either.

Dave
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 17:13 GMT
What's the "bullshit"?

You like Roger Smith?

>> OK, I bow to no one in my contempt for idiotic past GM management (can
>> you
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Dave
Hairy - 11 Mar 2006 20:51 GMT
Plus, as I recall - may be wrong,
> > the
> >> strikers could get unemployment benefits from the government. Pretty good
> >> stacking of the deck against the manufacturer, no?

This would be the specific thing that I was talking about. You seem to think
you know everything, so I assume you *knew* it was false when you typed it.

Dave
GRL - 12 Mar 2006 02:26 GMT
Sure, that's why I said I might be wrong. Of course, I was right.

Ain't it a bitch when that happens?

> Plus, as I recall - may be wrong,
>> > the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dave
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 18:40 GMT
Or is this what you mean by "bullshit"?

"Under New York State law, at least, workers faced with an unyielding
employer during a strike can qualify for unemployment insurance benefits
after seven weeks, giving them a greater economic ability to sustain
themselves during long labor disputes."

from: http://www.agendaforjustice.org/unemployment_insurance_in_strikes/

>> OK, I bow to no one in my contempt for idiotic past GM management (can
>> you
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Dave
Hairy - 11 Mar 2006 20:58 GMT
> Or is this what you mean by "bullshit"?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> from: http://www.agendaforjustice.org/unemployment_insurance_in_strikes/

Hmmm...I wonder how many UAW auto plants there are in New York.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 23:30 GMT
Hey, if there was only one, at the time, it's still true. I would guess that
the same sort of thing was true in rust-belt states with strong Democrat
leanings. Don't know for sure.

I don't know everything, but I do know a lot about cars and the car business
from being an avid car buff since I was 1966 and from having read newspapers
through the years. When I am less than sure about a point of fact, I say I'm
not sure. Opinions are opinions, but things presented as fact should have
more than an opinion behind them and that's what I try to provide.

Have a nice day.

>> Or is this what you mean by "bullshit"?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Hmmm...I wonder how many UAW auto plants there are in New York.
Hairy - 12 Mar 2006 00:17 GMT
> I don't know everything, but I do know a lot about cars and the car business
> from being an avid car buff since I was 1966

I'll bow to your greater experience since you have 1910 years on me. ;-)

Dave
GRL - 12 Mar 2006 02:29 GMT
You got me. I typo'd. Should have been "since I was a teenager in 1966".

My apologies for any confusion. (I'd do an emoticon, too, but I hate the
things.)

- GRL

>> I don't know everything, but I do know a lot about cars and the car
> business
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Dave
Jon R Patrick - 05 Mar 2006 14:12 GMT
> GM and Ford are the major competition for the Japanese in America. I am
> brilliant ...yes......a troll ..no.

that's not what you're argument was. you said the japanese would win the
war. that ignores the fact the europeans, chinese and koreas could provide
the compeitition if GM and Ford just suddenly disappeared.

Your points are juvenile at best, naive probably best describes it.
JP
Booboo Baker - 05 Mar 2006 15:07 GMT
>> GM and Ford are the major competition for the Japanese in America. I am
>> brilliant ...yes......a troll ..no.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Your points are juvenile at best, naive probably best describes it.
> JP

At this time European and Korean cars are such a small part of the Japanese
competition in this country...that is my point. Juveniles are the first to
call names when there ability to understand is lacking.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 03:01 GMT
The brilliance you display is the kind that got GM and Ford into the rough
waters they are in now. I urge you to get rid of it soon as you can.

Now, here is what Toyota really thinks of its situation. Fellow who runs
Toyota USA in the April MT (he an gringo ex-Ford guy) says that while Toyota
is #4 in the U.S. market, they run the company as if they were #8. When
times are good, they figure that means that big trouble is on the way. In
the best of times they strive for a small percentage increase in sales. When
times re bad they strive for a small percentage increase in sales. As for
the Koreans, Toyota has nothing but respect for them and how quickly they
have come so far. Further down the line, the Chinese are coming. Toyota runs
scared all the time...and there is plenty to be scared about...with or
without GM/Ford. I sure wish, as a GM share-holder, that GM would hire a
whole bunch of ex-Toyota execs to run the company.

I urge you to drive on down to your library and read the interview. It is
highly informative.

>>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US
>>> auto industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> GM and Ford are the major competition for the Japanese in America. I am
> brilliant ...yes......a troll ..no.
HLS@nospam.nix - 05 Mar 2006 14:08 GMT
> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
> competition

Aw gee, Boohoo...the American consumer didn't have to help GM and Ford.
They have been working hard at self destruction for decades.

If those carmakers want our support, then they should provide what we want.

And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water
washer.
Booboo Baker - 05 Mar 2006 15:18 GMT
>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
>> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water
> washer.

No argument from me...they did indeed assist in cutting there own throats.
But...not including the GM intake gasket problem that they have ignored for
years, they actually make a pretty dependable product from my experience.
But since they ignored the IG problem for over 10 years they are on my sh.t 
list. So if I buy another GM product anytime soon they wil have to damn near
give me the car with incentives, or come out with something I really want.
Luckily my current GM product with 128k miles still run damn near like new
as well as looks nice so I am not really looking for anything, but when I do
they better have some different offerings if the want my business. I am
still not ready to buy japanese because I would feel like a traitor.
Jon R Patrick - 05 Mar 2006 17:52 GMT
> No argument from me...they did indeed assist in cutting there own
> throats. But...not including the GM intake gasket problem that they
> have ignored for years, they actually make a pretty dependable product

And I think that's the problem with GM.  They actually build a very
reliable car (IMHO) and some of the best transmissions in the world.
But, a reliable car just isn't enough. The best cars provide style,
reliability, quality interior materials, good fit-and-finish and a good
ride/handling combination.
Basically, something that's durable and you're not embarrassed to sit in
or be seen in.

GM's done a good job at times with *parts* of the forumla, but seems to
be having trouble with "the whole package"... and far too much of the
limitation comes from their corporate cost-cutting mentality.  Parts
sharing, cutting costs in interiors to get a fraction of a percentage
additional profit.

I currently own a GM (saturn) and ford product. My favorite and best car
by FAR was a Mazda, and my older VW was a close second. We had a 2003(?)
accord which was a terrific car, and I certainly *get* why people buy
them...but it didn't have the same emotional connection my Mazda had.

Personally, I'd like to try a Nissan next, but if I were in the market
for a midsized car, I'd be getting a Fusion.

JP
itsme - 05 Mar 2006 22:26 GMT
and I hate the way the foam comes loose on the steering wheel.  You can
rotate it around the frame of the wheel... this smacks of garbage.  I think
it's due to getting hot and the glue coming free, well, duh, it's under
glass and sun.  Haven't seen it on a ford and never on a foreign car.

>>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
>>> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> offerings if the want my business. I am still not ready to buy japanese
> because I would feel like a traitor.
Mike Hunter - 05 Mar 2006 18:30 GMT
That may be your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is that of a
minority.  The fact is more buyers in the US apparently believe the vehicles
sold by GM, Ford and Chrysler are better than any of the imports.  Buyers in
the US still buy far more of the vehicle from GM, Ford and Chrysler than ANY
of the import brands.  My current 2005 and 2005 domestics are great cars and
my previous six domestics proved to be dependable cars.  To be fair my
previous seven imports were good cars as well, but certainly no better than
the domestics I have owned recently    ;)

mike hunt

>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
>> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water
> washer.
itsme - 05 Mar 2006 22:28 GMT
sounds like you go through a lot of cars, most cars are great in the first
few years.

> That may be your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is that of a
> minority.  The fact is more buyers in the US apparently believe the
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water
>> washer.
Mike Hunter - 05 Mar 2006 22:53 GMT
I'm eighty years old and run two cars.  Any car one can buy today will
easily last up to 200K if given the proper preventive maintenance.  However
few Americans keep their vehicle long enough to reach that kind of mileage
The fact is the average new vehicle buyer in the US replaces their vehicle
in three to four years with 45K to 60K on the clock.  Even the average used
car buy in the US replaces their used vehicle in two to three years.  One
can search the US Commerce Department for the detains if interested.

mike hunt

> sounds like you go through a lot of cars, most cars are great in the first
> few years.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water
>>> washer.
SC - 05 Mar 2006 23:04 GMT
wow
that should make it easier to get a good used car (due to sloanism).

We've had our clubwagon since Oct 96 (97 model year), take good care of it,
it has 122K on the odo.

Our Mercury GM has approximately 144k on the odo, purchased it from a friend
whose father in law had it since 1990, he put 99k on it, it's been good too
(had the heater core done for 550.oo.. ouch.

need to do something with the driver seat though, getting uncomfortable with
the cushion wearing out.

> I'm eighty years old and run two cars.  Any car one can buy today will
> easily last up to 200K if given the proper preventive maintenance.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>>>> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water
>>>> washer.
Mike Hunter - 05 Mar 2006 23:16 GMT
I love used car buyers.  If it were not for those waiting to buy my used
vehicles it would cost me a lot more to buy my new cars.  Now if I could
only find somebody to by all of my wife's used clothing and furniture, that
she now gives away, I could save a small fortune    LOL

mike hunt

> wow
> that should make it easier to get a good used car (due to sloanism).
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>>>>> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water
>>>>> washer.
itsme - 05 Mar 2006 22:24 GMT
they could have listened to Edward Deming, that is how the Japanese became
great manufacturers of the items that they cared about.

>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
>> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water
> washer.
RT - 05 Mar 2006 23:27 GMT
>As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
>industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>car companies will realing know what sucking means when all is said and
>done.

You those same americans who are BUILDING the 'japanese' cars in
American factories ? sure.
I think japanese cars are more american these days than american cars.
Mexico, Canada.. you name it, they all built there.
smitty - 12 Mar 2006 17:37 GMT
>>As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
>>industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I think japanese cars are more american these days than american cars.
> Mexico, Canada.. you name it, they all built there.

Dont be fooled by Appearances...they are Japanese cars. Japanese companies
do whatever it is they do here but at the end of the day the money goes back
to Japan. Sure you may have American workers but the Overseer is Japanese
and the American worker does what the Japanese order them to do.
SC - 17 Mar 2006 23:26 GMT
just the money that doesn't go into the stores and bank accounts of the
employees, not to mention US tax revenue.

>>>As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
>>>industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> back to Japan. Sure you may have American workers but the Overseer is
> Japanese and the American worker does what the Japanese order them to do.
Mike Hunter - 18 Mar 2006 01:32 GMT
True but if they worked for one of the domestic companies they would be
better off.  They would have even more money to go into the stores and bank
their accounts..   Better benefits as well.   ;)

mike hunt

> just the money that doesn't go into the stores and bank accounts of the
> employees, not to mention US tax revenue.

>>> You those same americans who are BUILDING the 'japanese' cars in
>>> American factories ? sure.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> Overseer is Japanese and the American worker does what the Japanese order
>> them to do.
Jon Patrick - 18 Mar 2006 13:32 GMT
> True but if they worked for one of the domestic companies they would
> be better off.  They would have even more money to go into the stores
> and bank their accounts..   Better benefits as well.   ;)

Unless, of course, they're one of the 10's of thousands ford and gm lay off..
in which case they'll be in georgia begging Kia to hire them.
Mike Hunter - 18 Mar 2006 16:40 GMT
Not likely.  There are plenty of folks who already have shown they are
willing to work for substandard wages, why do you think all of the import
brands are locating where they do?   That is like saying that if the
domestic do go under all of the workers now working in the import plants
will move to Mexico or China when the imports pull out of the US  ;)

mike hunt

>> True but if they worked for one of the domestic companies they would
>> be better off.  They would have even more money to go into the stores
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> off..
> in which case they'll be in georgia begging Kia to hire them.
Jon Patrick - 18 Mar 2006 16:57 GMT
> Not likely.  There are plenty of folks who already have shown they are
> willing to work for substandard wages, why do you think all of the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> mike hunt

With respect, you're just wrong.
I've heard plenty of podcasts and read articles over the years talking to
nissan, honda, and toyota execs about whether laid-off workers apply and
relocate to Texas, Tenn., etc. for the chance to keep working.
JP
Mike Hunter - 18 Mar 2006 20:30 GMT
Perhaps but will the they be willing to relocate to Mexico or China when the
imports pull out of the US  ;)

mike hunt

>> Not likely.  There are plenty of folks who already have shown they are
>> willing to work for substandard wages, why do you think all of the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> relocate to Texas, Tenn., etc. for the chance to keep working.
> JP
GRL - 19 Mar 2006 00:21 GMT
Dunno because neither you nor I know if that ever will happen. We do know,
because it is a demonstrated fact, that Japanese and Korean brands have and
are building more plants in the U.S.

Why do you raise the specter of a bogey man and ignore the pleasant reality
that exists? If low cost to produce were the only thing that matters to the
Japanese and Koreans, there would be no car plants in Japan and the Koreans
would keep all there manufacturing in Korea.

Do you actually want your bogey man to become real? Sounds to me like you
do. Is it barely possible that these Korean and Japanese car company
executives who are building plants in the U.S. and Canada to employee our
fellow citizens at good wages are not the low down money grubbing SOB's you
seem to think they are? There is a co-op I work with studying mechanical
engineering. His dream is to find work with a Japanese car
manufacturer...here in Michigan. I think it will happen. So does he.

Toyota is not the enemy of GM or Ford, the enemy is within.

- GRL

> Perhaps but will the they be willing to relocate to Mexico or China when
> the imports pull out of the US  ;)
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>> relocate to Texas, Tenn., etc. for the chance to keep working.
>> JP
Jon Patrick - 19 Mar 2006 01:02 GMT
> Perhaps but will the they be willing to relocate to Mexico or China
> when the imports pull out of the US  ;)
>
> mike hunt

well, probably not. but you're talking about something that MAY happen
20-40 years from now.
Nissan, hyundai, honda, kia, toyota (specifically) have made a commitment
and stated their long-range plans to build in the markets their selling.  
If toyota, etc are building plants here in the US, their making a long-
term capital investment which they're NOT going to demolish in the next 5
years just to relocate to Mexico.
However, IF washington doesn't start working on and seriously start
talking about an economic plan similar to the european union, I think in
the 2nd half of the next century we'll see an acceleration of
manufacturing going to our southern-american brothers.
JP
Gosi - 19 Mar 2006 10:03 GMT
The government has a plan to help small companies
They do so mostly by killing big companies
Jon Patrick - 19 Mar 2006 12:51 GMT
"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in news:1142759034.381058.27130
@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> The government has a plan to help small companies
> They do so mostly by killing big companies

you mean by allowing the megamergers? Like diamler-chrysler? BP? the
recently announced AT&T-Bellsouth?  At&t wireless with cingular?
If nothing, your statement is 100% opposite from the truth.
JP
Mike Hunter - 19 Mar 2006 14:48 GMT
Ever hear of the adage, 'Be careful what you wish for it may happen.'  If
you think the EU is a model the US would want to emulate, you obviously do
not know much about the EU   LOL

mike hunt

>> Perhaps but will the they be willing to relocate to Mexico or China
>> when the imports pull out of the US  ;)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> manufacturing going to our southern-american brothers.
> JP
Jon Patrick - 19 Mar 2006 20:27 GMT
> Ever hear of the adage, 'Be careful what you wish for it may happen.'
> If you think the EU is a model the US would want to emulate, you
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> manufacturing going to our southern-american brothers.
>> JP

the EU right now has it's problems... no doubt!  
However, with the economic sun rising over china, and their 20% of the
world population Europe has seen the necessity for the LONG TERM of a
unified economic system.
I truly think that if the USA, Canada, Mexico and our brothers to the
south don't start thinkng the same way, it's just a matter of time until
we're overshadowed by one of several larger economies.. either an
individual country or economic 'unions'.
I know you'll argue with me, Mike, but I'm not talking 10-20 years
here... I'm talking 100-200 years.
JP
Mike Hunter - 19 Mar 2006 21:06 GMT
I can't wait.  ;)

mike hunt

>> Ever hear of the adage, 'Be careful what you wish for it may happen.'
>> If you think the EU is a model the US would want to emulate, you
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> here... I'm talking 100-200 years.
> JP
John Horner - 12 Mar 2006 02:52 GMT
> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> car companies will realing know what sucking means when all is said and
> done.

I don't think that is going to happen, but even if it did, the Koreans
and Chinese will be there to keep the Japanese on their toes.

It isn't so much that the Japanese are winning the war in the US market
as it is that the US based companies are loosing it.  Much as in amateur
sports, it it the error rate of the opponents which often determines the
outcome.

John
chuckster - 12 Mar 2006 06:30 GMT
Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!    When
the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1.  ;)
Charge - 12 Mar 2006 06:50 GMT
Don't forget, the Demos were in Executive branch office in the 90's.

What makes anyone think they will live up to any broken promises?

> Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!    When
> the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1.  ;)
Charge - 12 Mar 2006 07:03 GMT
Also, don't forget the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!

When the Communists get in office, the Asian and European Car markets will
be #1.

> Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!    When
> the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1.  ;)
Charge - 12 Mar 2006 22:00 GMT
Also, don't forget the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!

When the Communists get in office, the Asian and European Car markets will
be #1.

> Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!    When
> the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1.  ;)
Father Guido - 13 Mar 2006 02:22 GMT
If you can't beat, sell out alaready.
Charge - 13 Mar 2006 15:31 GMT
When the Axis Powers take over the US Auto Industry the US will
rule!!!!!!!!!

Also, don't forget the Axis Powers attacked Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!

Also, don't forget Al Bore invented the Internet!!!!!!!!!

Also, don't forget WJC was featured on the front of the Esquire
Magazine Genius Edition!!!!!!!!!

When the Bleeding Heart Liberals get in office, the Asian rice rockets and
European Kraut Car markets will be #1.

> Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!    When
> the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1.  ;)
smitty - 12 Mar 2006 17:37 GMT
>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto
>> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> John

Same thing...you just said it differently.
 
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