Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / March 2006
When the Japanese Take over the the US Auto Industry the US will have Hell to pay
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Booboo Baker - 05 Mar 2006 01:02 GMT As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major competition I suspect the quality control to go down on these cars to an extent. With the less competition with Ford and GM 6 feet under the Japanese would have won the war and finally put a close to WWII once and for all. Quality will fade and japan will more than likely begin to cut corners while racking in tremendous profit. Customer service as well as repair will probably also suffer. So all of the Americans who now suck up to Japanese car companies will realing know what sucking means when all is said and done.
Jon R Patrick - 05 Mar 2006 01:12 GMT > As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US > auto industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of the Americans who now suck up to Japanese car companies will > realing know what sucking means when all is said and done. Because, of course even IF the us auto manufacturers did 100% shut down, there's no korean, european, or upcoming chinese manufacturers to provide competition to the japanese brands.
you're friggin' brilliant, troll. JP
Booboo Baker - 05 Mar 2006 01:26 GMT >> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US >> auto industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you're friggin' brilliant, troll. > JP GM and Ford are the major competition for the Japanese in America. I am brilliant ...yes......a troll ..no.
gosinn@gmail.com - 05 Mar 2006 08:08 GMT Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it will stop Quality is winning and all manufacturers need better Quality to stay in the race Toyota is winning because of better Quality The other companies are learning from them more or less Cutting corners is no longer an option Even GM is not immune to the competition Only question is if GM will survive They will no longer be number one US car industry is gaining from this competition They had been cutting corners for too long
Al Bundy - 05 Mar 2006 13:31 GMT > Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners > There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > US car industry is gaining from this competition > They had been cutting corners for too long I doubt quality has slipped in Japan simply because they have little competition. Their people demand quality. Americans demand different things. I'm in the minority on this I think, but I don't care much about fit and finish except if it's a sign of overall poor quality. I want something simple, low maintenance, reliable, easy to repair and that runs forever. That also seems to make me the manufacturer's least valued customer.
Stanely Beamish - 05 Mar 2006 15:02 GMT >> Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners >> There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > that runs forever. That also seems to make me the manufacturer's least > valued customer. I think you are wrong, for years Japan has been the guinea pig for japanese cars. They were building and selling shitty cars to there own people first to iron out all the bugs before introducing them to the US. That has been there history and it is a fact. Look it up. So the japanese people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced here.
itsme - 05 Mar 2006 22:23 GMT I don't think this is supportive. I lived in Japan for three years and saw many wonderful cars/SUVs before the US ever heard of SUV. They were also very good vehicles, including the one's I owned. This opinion below doesn't hold water especially when one considers the registration process that Japanese cars go through. Keeping a car in Japan gets real expensive after five years due to the registration /safety (sic) process. If anything, their gov't is making the auto machine run by forcing their people to start looking for a new car after 3 years. Hey! They never get to the point where the cars fall apart, unless they are rich and then they don't care. Look that up.
>>> Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners >>> There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > That has been there history and it is a fact. Look it up. So the japanese > people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced here. Booboo Baker - 06 Mar 2006 06:33 GMT >I don't think this is supportive. I lived in Japan for three years and saw >many wonderful cars/SUVs before the US ever heard of SUV. They were also [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced >> here. Dont expect that you are going to see the under belly of Japan just because you lived there for 3 years. Do some studying on how Japan developed its cars for the US market place.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 03:04 GMT What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to export cars in numbers to Japan would have succeeded and not failed miserably like they have.
You cannot possibly actually believe what you wrote.
>>> Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners >>> There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > That has been there history and it is a fact. Look it up. So the japanese > people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced here. Bob - 11 Mar 2006 03:37 GMT > What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does > not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to > export cars in numbers to Japan would have succeeded and not failed > miserably like they have. > > You cannot possibly actually believe what you wrote. I know I can't believe the crap that has come from your keyboard tonight. *PLONK*
Ted Mittelstaedt - 11 Mar 2006 07:34 GMT > > What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does > > not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I know I can't believe the crap that has come from your keyboard tonight. Bob, you need to do a bit of research about auto ownership in Japan.
Japan requires very strict vehicle inspections. As a result, vehicles in Japan are usually scrapped after they are about 6 years old, because it's not cost effective to repair them. And we are talking they get out the micrometers to measure bearing wear.
Why is it done this way? Well, the vehicle manufacturers have pressured the government into this so as to force obsolescense and sell a lot more cars.
Also, the Japanese culture and people are such that the culture prefers home grown products over imports. Keep in mind that it hasn't yet been a century since Japan lost to the United States in WWII. And this is a culture that one of their biggest festivals - Obon - takes a week and it's sole purpose is to honor deceased ancestors. A lot of Japanese feel subconsciously that buying American is dishonoring ancestors who were killed in WWII or fought Americans in WWII.
In the United States the culture is completely different than in Japan. It is very common for Americans to project their culture on everyone else. It is doubtful in the US for example that anyone under the age of 20 could even tell you if any of their grandparents fought in WWII let alone which ones. This is a strength of the American culture because it makes it a lot easier for us to forgive and forget and move on with life. But it puts blinders on us when we try to understand other cultures, particularly ones that have many many thousands of years of history. You must understand that the Japanese culture is very very different than the US. This is, after all, a society where 30% of the homes have toilets that cost $1000 and have computers in them. (and I'm not talking computers that you type on, if you want to see a Japanese toilet control panel see here: http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/techno/toilet/washlet.html )
Ted
E. BOROWICZ - 11 Mar 2006 04:36 GMT > What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does > not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> people were driving troublesome cars that were fixed then introduced >> here. Remember, that Japan restricts the entry of foreign automobile into their country. It is extremely difficult to enter the Japanese market, unlike the US.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 17:11 GMT First of all, it is not easy to gain entry to the U.S. market. Their are EPA and NHTSA hurdles that are significant...like crashing cars and gathering data.
I do not know that the equivalent Japanese restrictions are harder or easier, but there is also the matter of them driving on the other side of the road from us. I do know that the restrictions were eased years ago from what they were. I doubt that they ever had a 25% tariff on pick-up trucks like we did for years, by way of comparison.
European brands do quite well in Japan because owning something like a Bimmer or Merc is very prestigious in Japan. Few American brands are considered prestigious and most of what the U.S. brands have been making is simply too large to sell in Japan. The country is very congested, streets are narrow, and your typical U.S. truck or medium sized sedan or mini-van would not fit there. Eve if the quality were of a level that they are used to.
>> What utter and complete nonsense. The Japanese automobile customer does >> not tolerate poor quality. If they did, the several attempts by GM to [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > country. It is extremely difficult to enter the Japanese market, unlike > the US. Stanely Beamish - 05 Mar 2006 14:56 GMT > Interestingly it is a competition between Quality and cutting corners > There is nothing saying that even though GM will be bankrupt that it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > US car industry is gaining from this competition > They had been cutting corners for too long You have to admit that the UAW is squeezing the hell out of American companies. If they could get that monkey of they back they could be much more competitive dollar wise.
Jon R Patrick - 05 Mar 2006 17:54 GMT > You have to admit that the UAW is squeezing the hell out of American > companies. If they could get that monkey of they back they could be > much more competitive dollar wise. There is some truth to this argument, and the unions have to realize they need to offer concessions to help be part of the solution or they're just going to be the final straw that breaks GM. However, it's not all to be laid at the feet of organized labor. We're not here to argue the necessity of unions or not in todays world, but 30+ years of GM & ford management have agreed to the flawed plans that led to this place.
JP
Randy Taylor - 07 Mar 2006 00:58 GMT As a retired maintenance man from GM I have to agree with you. If the UAW contracts are destroying Ford and GM, why didn't management use some of their lawyers to find how these would affect future profitablity. They most likely figured the the goose would always lay golden eggs. I don't see anything sinister about their decisions, just stupidity. For example look at the Aztec.
>> You have to admit that the UAW is squeezing the hell out of American >> companies. If they could get that monkey of they back they could be [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > JP dh - 07 Mar 2006 02:57 GMT > As a retired maintenance man from GM I have to agree with you. If the UAW > contracts are destroying Ford and GM, why didn't management use some of > their lawyers to find how these would affect future profitablity. They most > likely figured the the goose would always lay golden eggs. I don't see > anything sinister about their decisions, just stupidity. For example look at > the Aztec. No! Don't look! You'll hurt your eyes!
> >> You have to admit that the UAW is squeezing the hell out of American > >> companies. If they could get that monkey of they back they could be [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Spam Hater - 07 Mar 2006 20:55 GMT > As a retired maintenance man from GM I have to agree with you. If the UAW > contracts are destroying Ford and GM, why didn't management use some of > their lawyers to find how these would affect future profitablity. They most > likely figured the the goose would always lay golden eggs. I don't see > anything sinister about their decisions, just stupidity. For example look at > the Aztec. No lawyers, good business financial planners. Yes they obviously were looking short term and gave it to the unions when money was flowing in. Unfortunately GM places too much emphasis on volume of sales, but GMAC loves big sales.
As for the Aztec, I still can't stand it. I feel almost as negative about the Chrysler 300 styling.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 03:13 GMT OK, I bow to no one in my contempt for idiotic past GM management (can you say R-o-g-e-r S-m-i-t-h), but to be fair what these clowns were trying to do was buy a degree of labor peace (get longer term contracts avoiding the threat of costly annual strikes) with money and benefits that they could not afford long term. The UAW always had an ace up its sleeve. They could strike one manufacturer, while it's members in the other two kept paying dues that went into strike pay for the strikers. Plus, as I recall - may be wrong, the strikers could get unemployment benefits from the government. Pretty good stacking of the deck against the manufacturer, no?
>> As a retired maintenance man from GM I have to agree with you. If the UAW >> contracts are destroying Ford and GM, why didn't management use some of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > As for the Aztec, I still can't stand it. I feel almost as negative > about the Chrysler 300 styling. Hairy - 11 Mar 2006 04:19 GMT > OK, I bow to no one in my contempt for idiotic past GM management (can you > say R-o-g-e-r S-m-i-t-h), but to be fair what these clowns were trying to do [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > strikers could get unemployment benefits from the government. Pretty good > stacking of the deck against the manufacturer, no? Would be if it were true. I guess you're not above posting bullshit, either.
Dave
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 17:13 GMT What's the "bullshit"?
You like Roger Smith?
>> OK, I bow to no one in my contempt for idiotic past GM management (can >> you [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Dave Hairy - 11 Mar 2006 20:51 GMT Plus, as I recall - may be wrong,
> > the > >> strikers could get unemployment benefits from the government. Pretty good > >> stacking of the deck against the manufacturer, no? This would be the specific thing that I was talking about. You seem to think you know everything, so I assume you *knew* it was false when you typed it.
Dave
GRL - 12 Mar 2006 02:26 GMT Sure, that's why I said I might be wrong. Of course, I was right.
Ain't it a bitch when that happens?
> Plus, as I recall - may be wrong, >> > the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Dave GRL - 11 Mar 2006 18:40 GMT Or is this what you mean by "bullshit"?
"Under New York State law, at least, workers faced with an unyielding employer during a strike can qualify for unemployment insurance benefits after seven weeks, giving them a greater economic ability to sustain themselves during long labor disputes."
from: http://www.agendaforjustice.org/unemployment_insurance_in_strikes/
>> OK, I bow to no one in my contempt for idiotic past GM management (can >> you [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Dave Hairy - 11 Mar 2006 20:58 GMT > Or is this what you mean by "bullshit"? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > from: http://www.agendaforjustice.org/unemployment_insurance_in_strikes/ Hmmm...I wonder how many UAW auto plants there are in New York.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 23:30 GMT Hey, if there was only one, at the time, it's still true. I would guess that the same sort of thing was true in rust-belt states with strong Democrat leanings. Don't know for sure.
I don't know everything, but I do know a lot about cars and the car business from being an avid car buff since I was 1966 and from having read newspapers through the years. When I am less than sure about a point of fact, I say I'm not sure. Opinions are opinions, but things presented as fact should have more than an opinion behind them and that's what I try to provide.
Have a nice day.
>> Or is this what you mean by "bullshit"? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Hmmm...I wonder how many UAW auto plants there are in New York. Hairy - 12 Mar 2006 00:17 GMT > I don't know everything, but I do know a lot about cars and the car business > from being an avid car buff since I was 1966 I'll bow to your greater experience since you have 1910 years on me. ;-)
Dave
GRL - 12 Mar 2006 02:29 GMT You got me. I typo'd. Should have been "since I was a teenager in 1966".
My apologies for any confusion. (I'd do an emoticon, too, but I hate the things.)
- GRL
>> I don't know everything, but I do know a lot about cars and the car > business [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dave Jon R Patrick - 05 Mar 2006 14:12 GMT > GM and Ford are the major competition for the Japanese in America. I am > brilliant ...yes......a troll ..no. that's not what you're argument was. you said the japanese would win the war. that ignores the fact the europeans, chinese and koreas could provide the compeitition if GM and Ford just suddenly disappeared.
Your points are juvenile at best, naive probably best describes it. JP
Booboo Baker - 05 Mar 2006 15:07 GMT >> GM and Ford are the major competition for the Japanese in America. I am >> brilliant ...yes......a troll ..no. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Your points are juvenile at best, naive probably best describes it. > JP At this time European and Korean cars are such a small part of the Japanese competition in this country...that is my point. Juveniles are the first to call names when there ability to understand is lacking.
GRL - 11 Mar 2006 03:01 GMT The brilliance you display is the kind that got GM and Ford into the rough waters they are in now. I urge you to get rid of it soon as you can.
Now, here is what Toyota really thinks of its situation. Fellow who runs Toyota USA in the April MT (he an gringo ex-Ford guy) says that while Toyota is #4 in the U.S. market, they run the company as if they were #8. When times are good, they figure that means that big trouble is on the way. In the best of times they strive for a small percentage increase in sales. When times re bad they strive for a small percentage increase in sales. As for the Koreans, Toyota has nothing but respect for them and how quickly they have come so far. Further down the line, the Chinese are coming. Toyota runs scared all the time...and there is plenty to be scared about...with or without GM/Ford. I sure wish, as a GM share-holder, that GM would hire a whole bunch of ex-Toyota execs to run the company.
I urge you to drive on down to your library and read the interview. It is highly informative.
>>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US >>> auto industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > GM and Ford are the major competition for the Japanese in America. I am > brilliant ...yes......a troll ..no. HLS@nospam.nix - 05 Mar 2006 14:08 GMT > As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto > industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major > competition Aw gee, Boohoo...the American consumer didn't have to help GM and Ford. They have been working hard at self destruction for decades.
If those carmakers want our support, then they should provide what we want.
And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water washer.
Booboo Baker - 05 Mar 2006 15:18 GMT >> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto >> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water > washer. No argument from me...they did indeed assist in cutting there own throats. But...not including the GM intake gasket problem that they have ignored for years, they actually make a pretty dependable product from my experience. But since they ignored the IG problem for over 10 years they are on my sh.t list. So if I buy another GM product anytime soon they wil have to damn near give me the car with incentives, or come out with something I really want. Luckily my current GM product with 128k miles still run damn near like new as well as looks nice so I am not really looking for anything, but when I do they better have some different offerings if the want my business. I am still not ready to buy japanese because I would feel like a traitor.
Jon R Patrick - 05 Mar 2006 17:52 GMT > No argument from me...they did indeed assist in cutting there own > throats. But...not including the GM intake gasket problem that they > have ignored for years, they actually make a pretty dependable product And I think that's the problem with GM. They actually build a very reliable car (IMHO) and some of the best transmissions in the world. But, a reliable car just isn't enough. The best cars provide style, reliability, quality interior materials, good fit-and-finish and a good ride/handling combination. Basically, something that's durable and you're not embarrassed to sit in or be seen in.
GM's done a good job at times with *parts* of the forumla, but seems to be having trouble with "the whole package"... and far too much of the limitation comes from their corporate cost-cutting mentality. Parts sharing, cutting costs in interiors to get a fraction of a percentage additional profit.
I currently own a GM (saturn) and ford product. My favorite and best car by FAR was a Mazda, and my older VW was a close second. We had a 2003(?) accord which was a terrific car, and I certainly *get* why people buy them...but it didn't have the same emotional connection my Mazda had.
Personally, I'd like to try a Nissan next, but if I were in the market for a midsized car, I'd be getting a Fusion.
JP
itsme - 05 Mar 2006 22:26 GMT and I hate the way the foam comes loose on the steering wheel. You can rotate it around the frame of the wheel... this smacks of garbage. I think it's due to getting hot and the glue coming free, well, duh, it's under glass and sun. Haven't seen it on a ford and never on a foreign car.
>>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto >>> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > offerings if the want my business. I am still not ready to buy japanese > because I would feel like a traitor. Mike Hunter - 05 Mar 2006 18:30 GMT That may be your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is that of a minority. The fact is more buyers in the US apparently believe the vehicles sold by GM, Ford and Chrysler are better than any of the imports. Buyers in the US still buy far more of the vehicle from GM, Ford and Chrysler than ANY of the import brands. My current 2005 and 2005 domestics are great cars and my previous six domestics proved to be dependable cars. To be fair my previous seven imports were good cars as well, but certainly no better than the domestics I have owned recently ;)
mike hunt
>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto >> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water > washer. itsme - 05 Mar 2006 22:28 GMT sounds like you go through a lot of cars, most cars are great in the first few years.
> That may be your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is that of a > minority. The fact is more buyers in the US apparently believe the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water >> washer. Mike Hunter - 05 Mar 2006 22:53 GMT I'm eighty years old and run two cars. Any car one can buy today will easily last up to 200K if given the proper preventive maintenance. However few Americans keep their vehicle long enough to reach that kind of mileage The fact is the average new vehicle buyer in the US replaces their vehicle in three to four years with 45K to 60K on the clock. Even the average used car buy in the US replaces their used vehicle in two to three years. One can search the US Commerce Department for the detains if interested.
mike hunt
> sounds like you go through a lot of cars, most cars are great in the first > few years. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water >>> washer. SC - 05 Mar 2006 23:04 GMT wow that should make it easier to get a good used car (due to sloanism).
We've had our clubwagon since Oct 96 (97 model year), take good care of it, it has 122K on the odo.
Our Mercury GM has approximately 144k on the odo, purchased it from a friend whose father in law had it since 1990, he put 99k on it, it's been good too (had the heater core done for 550.oo.. ouch.
need to do something with the driver seat though, getting uncomfortable with the cushion wearing out.
> I'm eighty years old and run two cars. Any car one can buy today will > easily last up to 200K if given the proper preventive maintenance. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>>> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water >>>> washer. Mike Hunter - 05 Mar 2006 23:16 GMT I love used car buyers. If it were not for those waiting to buy my used vehicles it would cost me a lot more to buy my new cars. Now if I could only find somebody to by all of my wife's used clothing and furniture, that she now gives away, I could save a small fortune LOL
mike hunt
> wow > that should make it easier to get a good used car (due to sloanism). [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >>>>> And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water >>>>> washer. itsme - 05 Mar 2006 22:24 GMT they could have listened to Edward Deming, that is how the Japanese became great manufacturers of the items that they cared about.
>> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto >> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And we want quality, economy, and design... Not a frikking warm water > washer. RT - 05 Mar 2006 23:27 GMT >As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto >industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >car companies will realing know what sucking means when all is said and >done. You those same americans who are BUILDING the 'japanese' cars in American factories ? sure. I think japanese cars are more american these days than american cars. Mexico, Canada.. you name it, they all built there.
smitty - 12 Mar 2006 17:37 GMT >>As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto >>industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I think japanese cars are more american these days than american cars. > Mexico, Canada.. you name it, they all built there. Dont be fooled by Appearances...they are Japanese cars. Japanese companies do whatever it is they do here but at the end of the day the money goes back to Japan. Sure you may have American workers but the Overseer is Japanese and the American worker does what the Japanese order them to do.
SC - 17 Mar 2006 23:26 GMT just the money that doesn't go into the stores and bank accounts of the employees, not to mention US tax revenue.
>>>As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto >>>industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > back to Japan. Sure you may have American workers but the Overseer is > Japanese and the American worker does what the Japanese order them to do. Mike Hunter - 18 Mar 2006 01:32 GMT True but if they worked for one of the domestic companies they would be better off. They would have even more money to go into the stores and bank their accounts.. Better benefits as well. ;)
mike hunt
> just the money that doesn't go into the stores and bank accounts of the > employees, not to mention US tax revenue.
>>> You those same americans who are BUILDING the 'japanese' cars in >>> American factories ? sure. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> Overseer is Japanese and the American worker does what the Japanese order >> them to do. Jon Patrick - 18 Mar 2006 13:32 GMT > True but if they worked for one of the domestic companies they would > be better off. They would have even more money to go into the stores > and bank their accounts.. Better benefits as well. ;) Unless, of course, they're one of the 10's of thousands ford and gm lay off.. in which case they'll be in georgia begging Kia to hire them.
Mike Hunter - 18 Mar 2006 16:40 GMT Not likely. There are plenty of folks who already have shown they are willing to work for substandard wages, why do you think all of the import brands are locating where they do? That is like saying that if the domestic do go under all of the workers now working in the import plants will move to Mexico or China when the imports pull out of the US ;)
mike hunt
>> True but if they worked for one of the domestic companies they would >> be better off. They would have even more money to go into the stores [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > off.. > in which case they'll be in georgia begging Kia to hire them. Jon Patrick - 18 Mar 2006 16:57 GMT > Not likely. There are plenty of folks who already have shown they are > willing to work for substandard wages, why do you think all of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > mike hunt With respect, you're just wrong. I've heard plenty of podcasts and read articles over the years talking to nissan, honda, and toyota execs about whether laid-off workers apply and relocate to Texas, Tenn., etc. for the chance to keep working. JP
Mike Hunter - 18 Mar 2006 20:30 GMT Perhaps but will the they be willing to relocate to Mexico or China when the imports pull out of the US ;)
mike hunt
>> Not likely. There are plenty of folks who already have shown they are >> willing to work for substandard wages, why do you think all of the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > relocate to Texas, Tenn., etc. for the chance to keep working. > JP GRL - 19 Mar 2006 00:21 GMT Dunno because neither you nor I know if that ever will happen. We do know, because it is a demonstrated fact, that Japanese and Korean brands have and are building more plants in the U.S.
Why do you raise the specter of a bogey man and ignore the pleasant reality that exists? If low cost to produce were the only thing that matters to the Japanese and Koreans, there would be no car plants in Japan and the Koreans would keep all there manufacturing in Korea.
Do you actually want your bogey man to become real? Sounds to me like you do. Is it barely possible that these Korean and Japanese car company executives who are building plants in the U.S. and Canada to employee our fellow citizens at good wages are not the low down money grubbing SOB's you seem to think they are? There is a co-op I work with studying mechanical engineering. His dream is to find work with a Japanese car manufacturer...here in Michigan. I think it will happen. So does he.
Toyota is not the enemy of GM or Ford, the enemy is within.
- GRL
> Perhaps but will the they be willing to relocate to Mexico or China when > the imports pull out of the US ;) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> relocate to Texas, Tenn., etc. for the chance to keep working. >> JP Jon Patrick - 19 Mar 2006 01:02 GMT > Perhaps but will the they be willing to relocate to Mexico or China > when the imports pull out of the US ;) > > mike hunt well, probably not. but you're talking about something that MAY happen 20-40 years from now. Nissan, hyundai, honda, kia, toyota (specifically) have made a commitment and stated their long-range plans to build in the markets their selling. If toyota, etc are building plants here in the US, their making a long- term capital investment which they're NOT going to demolish in the next 5 years just to relocate to Mexico. However, IF washington doesn't start working on and seriously start talking about an economic plan similar to the european union, I think in the 2nd half of the next century we'll see an acceleration of manufacturing going to our southern-american brothers. JP
Gosi - 19 Mar 2006 10:03 GMT The government has a plan to help small companies They do so mostly by killing big companies
Jon Patrick - 19 Mar 2006 12:51 GMT "Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in news:1142759034.381058.27130 @z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> The government has a plan to help small companies > They do so mostly by killing big companies you mean by allowing the megamergers? Like diamler-chrysler? BP? the recently announced AT&T-Bellsouth? At&t wireless with cingular? If nothing, your statement is 100% opposite from the truth. JP
Mike Hunter - 19 Mar 2006 14:48 GMT Ever hear of the adage, 'Be careful what you wish for it may happen.' If you think the EU is a model the US would want to emulate, you obviously do not know much about the EU LOL
mike hunt
>> Perhaps but will the they be willing to relocate to Mexico or China >> when the imports pull out of the US ;) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > manufacturing going to our southern-american brothers. > JP Jon Patrick - 19 Mar 2006 20:27 GMT > Ever hear of the adage, 'Be careful what you wish for it may happen.' > If you think the EU is a model the US would want to emulate, you [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> manufacturing going to our southern-american brothers. >> JP the EU right now has it's problems... no doubt! However, with the economic sun rising over china, and their 20% of the world population Europe has seen the necessity for the LONG TERM of a unified economic system. I truly think that if the USA, Canada, Mexico and our brothers to the south don't start thinkng the same way, it's just a matter of time until we're overshadowed by one of several larger economies.. either an individual country or economic 'unions'. I know you'll argue with me, Mike, but I'm not talking 10-20 years here... I'm talking 100-200 years. JP
Mike Hunter - 19 Mar 2006 21:06 GMT I can't wait. ;)
mike hunt
>> Ever hear of the adage, 'Be careful what you wish for it may happen.' >> If you think the EU is a model the US would want to emulate, you [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > here... I'm talking 100-200 years. > JP John Horner - 12 Mar 2006 02:52 GMT > As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto > industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > car companies will realing know what sucking means when all is said and > done. I don't think that is going to happen, but even if it did, the Koreans and Chinese will be there to keep the Japanese on their toes.
It isn't so much that the Japanese are winning the war in the US market as it is that the US based companies are loosing it. Much as in amateur sports, it it the error rate of the opponents which often determines the outcome.
John
chuckster - 12 Mar 2006 06:30 GMT Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!! When the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1. ;)
Charge - 12 Mar 2006 06:50 GMT Don't forget, the Demos were in Executive branch office in the 90's.
What makes anyone think they will live up to any broken promises?
> Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!! When > the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1. ;) Charge - 12 Mar 2006 07:03 GMT Also, don't forget the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!
When the Communists get in office, the Asian and European Car markets will be #1.
> Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!! When > the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1. ;) Charge - 12 Mar 2006 22:00 GMT Also, don't forget the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!
When the Communists get in office, the Asian and European Car markets will be #1.
> Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!! When > the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1. ;) Father Guido - 13 Mar 2006 02:22 GMT If you can't beat, sell out alaready.
Charge - 13 Mar 2006 15:31 GMT When the Axis Powers take over the US Auto Industry the US will rule!!!!!!!!!
Also, don't forget the Axis Powers attacked Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!
Also, don't forget Al Bore invented the Internet!!!!!!!!!
Also, don't forget WJC was featured on the front of the Esquire Magazine Genius Edition!!!!!!!!!
When the Bleeding Heart Liberals get in office, the Asian rice rockets and European Kraut Car markets will be #1.
> Lets not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!! When > the Democrats get in office, the American Car market will be #1. ;) smitty - 12 Mar 2006 17:37 GMT >> As the US consumer assists in helping the Japanese take over the US auto >> industry by wiping GM an Ford off the map thereby reducing all major [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > John Same thing...you just said it differently.
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