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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / April 2006Torque converter shudder on 1995 Lincoln
I'm sure it's torque converter shudder. Here is the deal. My check engine light is on sometimes but not all the time. The only time I have the torque converter shudder is when the check engine light is on. Could this be a strong clue to what is actually wrong? If anyone knows please post and I will be checking back. Thanks Plugs and wires could do that. When does the shudder occur? PoD > I'm sure it's torque converter shudder. Here is the deal. My check > engine light is on sometimes [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anyone knows please post > and I will be checking back. Thanks It could be plugs and wires. It happens under light throttle between 30 and 50 MPH. Under heavy throttle I don't think it happens. I just noticed the connection between the check engine light and the problem. The engine usually runs smooth but sometimes for a few seconds it shakes a little. When my fluid needed changing ('95 CV, by the way) I got a shudder like going over rumble strips. It was about as loud and was intermittant - brupp, brupp, brupp. I had to drive up a hill every day and was usually doing 35-40 at the time. Fluid and filter change fixed it. Use Mercon V fluid. TCCOA has a good guide for doing it right. If it is more at highway speed with light throttle, suspect plug wires. Get good ones and replace the plugs, too. Be sure to blow the dust and crap out of the plug area before you remove them. PoD > It could be plugs and wires. It happens under light throttle between 30 > and 50 MPH. Under heavy throttle I don't think it happens. I just > noticed the connection between the check engine light and the problem. > The engine usually runs smooth but sometimes for a few seconds it > shakes a little. I know I should change over to Mercon V and I want to. I haven't found anyone in town willing to put Mercon V im my car. It pisses me off. They all say it will ruin your transmission. I know that not to be true. I will have to do it I guess. I know the torque converter has it's own drain plug. I'm just thinking now that what ever is making the check engine light come on is causing this and I don't know if fluid can make the light come on. I don't think the check engine light can even be tested unless it's on and it's not always on. I'd think the dealer would do the job. There is a TSB about it. The worst part is crawling under the car. Of course, getting the plug in the TC lined up is a pain but a helper makes a big difference. I have done the plain-drain and the TCCOA pump out. The TCCOA worked wonderfully. I got almost the full fill of fluid back in. By the way, Pennzoil makes a fluid that meets BOTH Mercon V and Mercon III specs. PoD >I know I should change over to Mercon V and I want to. I haven't found > anyone in town willing to put Mercon V im my car. It pisses me off. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > can make the light come on. I don't think the check engine light can > even be tested unless it's on and it's not always on. One Lincoln dealer said they wouldn't do it. They said it will ruin the transmission. Also is this really true that I just read? disconnecting the battery will cause basic settings of the vehicle's computer to be erased (e.g. idle settings, fuel trim settings, transmission shift points, etc.) The computer 'learns' as you drive. Removing the battery cable for a while can erase the stuff it learned but the basic stuff remains. I can't tell much difference with my car. There was a lot of confusion about the backward compatibility of Mercon V but I thought it was OK in the 4R70W trans we have. I know the fluid I used had both ratings but a lot of them don't. I would be hypocritical if I said to ignore the dealer. Almost all repairs I can't do myself get done at a dealer. (Years ago, dealer repair shops weren't so good. Now they are fairly priced and have very well-trained mechanics, IMHO.) PoD > One Lincoln dealer said they wouldn't do it. They said it will ruin the > transmission. Also is this really true that I just read? disconnecting > the battery will cause basic settings of the vehicle's computer to be > erased (e.g. idle settings, fuel trim settings, transmission shift > points, etc.) >By the way, Pennzoil makes a fluid >that meets BOTH Mercon V and Mercon III specs. So which is it? Mercon III was based on mineral oil? Mercon V is pure synthetic? I had the shudder (94 Tbird LX V8/4r70w) at 38k mi. Dealer flushed/filled tranny fluid and it went away. >The computer 'learns' as you drive. Removing the battery cable for a while >can erase the stuff it learned but the basic stuff remains. I can't tell >much difference with my car. Yeah, I think it just restarts with factory defaults. This shouldn't be a problem. >There was a lot of confusion about the backward compatibility of Mercon V >but I thought it was OK in the 4R70W trans we have. I know the fluid I used >had both ratings but a lot of them don't. I would be hypocritical if I said >to ignore the dealer. Almost all repairs I can't do myself get done at a >dealer. If the factory recommend is Mercon III, I 'spect the dealer is not *supposed* to use Mercon V. I got a private tranny shop to flush/fill Mercon V around 48k mi. Now at 61k and haven't had a problem. >(Years ago, dealer repair shops weren't so good. Now they are fairly priced >and have very well-trained mechanics, IMHO.) I got the shudder at 38k mi. and while shifting from 3rd to 4th. Pretty sure they used Mercon III (and that fixed it). Don't remember if the check-engine lite was on. Puddin' >> One Lincoln dealer said they wouldn't do it. They said it will ruin the >> transmission. Also is this really true that I just read? disconnecting >> the battery will cause basic settings of the vehicle's computer to be >> erased (e.g. idle settings, fuel trim settings, transmission shift >> points, etc.) I have to realize when I said I only get the shudder when the light is on but it may be the shudder that turns the light on also. >I know I should change over to Mercon V and I want to. I haven't found >anyone in town willing to put Mercon V im my car. It pisses me off. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >can make the light come on. I don't think the check engine light can >even be tested unless it's on and it's not always on. It may or may not be converter shudder. If the Check Engine light comes there is a hard fault recorded that can be read. This is the first thing that should be done because converter slippage can set a fault code in that trans. The fault code could also be related to some other fault that could result in the same symptoms. Your first step is to determine what, if any, fault codes are stored and what they are related to. Your fault code in conjunction with your symptoms would certainly help get you more specific advice. That all said, your trans may be in need of a complete service including draining the converter anyway if it has been over 25K miles since it was last done. If your problem is related to the converter, this may help or even cure the problem if it has not gone on too long. The longer it goes, the less chance of correction with service. If/when you get it serviced, add 2 bottles of LubeGard red if you use Dexron fluid. If you use the Mercon V which I would not because of the expense, you will not need the additive. There is another product aout there called Shudderfix that is effective. These are the only additives I have ever used that I found beneficial over the long haul by doing what they advertise. Most of the shops in this area use one or the other in every rebuild and are convinced that the warranty rework rate is drastically reduced. Lugnut Thanks, I was told once and they might have been wrong that the fault code can't be read if the check engine light is off. If it has to be on I can't have it checked. From what I have read here tonight it probably doesn't have to be on. Just wondering why is the check engine light just on sometimes rather than all the time if there is a problem? > Thanks, I was told once and they might have been wrong that the fault > code can't be read if the check engine light is off. If it has to be on > I can't have it checked. From what I have read here tonight it probably > doesn't have to be on. Well I'm pretty sure 'they' were wrong.... maybe they were talking about something from the early eighties, cause 1984 EECIV systems stored codes.  SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! Knowing how to deal with it and who to trust is half the battle. When I have a problem where if you ask 1000 people you get 1000 different answers it makes you wonder you know? > Knowing how to deal with it and who to trust is half the battle. When I > have a problem where if you ask 1000 people you get 1000 different > answers it makes you wonder you know? Not here! Read a few of these at random... the 'committee' concept works. Well, at least, when a bunch of us prattle on clueless for a while, the pros come on and straighten it out. SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! > I know I should change over to Mercon V and I want to. I haven't found > anyone in town willing to put Mercon V im my car. It pisses me off. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > can make the light come on. I don't think the check engine light can > even be tested unless it's on and it's not always on. ========== ========== . . .http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/tsb/tsb/01-15-07.php3 . . Ford ATF fluid link as far as your "shudder".....I would suggest LIGHTLY apply the brake when the shudder occurs to cancel lock-up, and see if the shudder is still there. You only need to lightly touch the brake pedal, just enough to light up the brake lights. If the shudder stops in correlation to lock-up on/off with this test, then change your fluid/filter.....DRAIN THE CONVERTOR also. If that doesn't do the trick.....do a repost. As you stated, the ck. eng. light could be coming on due to the shudder, and YES.....a convertor shudder can, and will, set a code. Not always, but can. ~:~ MarshMonster ~trannytech~ > > I know I should change over to Mercon V and I want to. I haven't found > > anyone in town willing to put Mercon V im my car. It pisses me off. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ========== > . Follow this link http://www.mn12performance.com/mn12-techinfo/tsb/tsb-98-8-7.pdf SignatureRichard '94 GT 'vert Under Drive Pulleys Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit High Stall Torque Converter 4:10 Gears Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded) FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft FRPP M5400-A Suspension Laser Red From: lerner@ka.net I'm sure it's torque converter shudder. Here is the deal. My check engine light is on sometimes but not all the time. The only time I have the torque converter shudder is when the check engine light is on. Could this be a strong clue to what is actually wrong? If anyone knows please post and I will be checking back. Thanks ======== have had this happen before. go to lincoln dealer and get a bottle of shutter guard additive. it's a small bottle. pout it in and it usually fixes the problem. don't know why lincoln won't tell the owners this problem exists, but somehow, they seem to sell the fix at their parts counter. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc A parts store that sells Lubeguard products will have "Dr. Tranny'sInstant Shudder Fixx". It comes in a tube and costs about $10. It worked for me for the 6 months it took me to get around to changing fluid. I think Lucas makes a good one, too. You can go to AutoZone and they will read your codes for free. Make a note of them but don't buy anything, just report them here. There are quite a few very good mechanics around here. (It's prolly easiest to get codes while the light is on.) PoD > From: lerner@ka.net > I'm sure it's torque converter shudder. Here is the deal. My check [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc TCC Shudder in the AODE happens when the transmission has about 30,000-50,000 miles and on application of the torque converter clutch. . Because of the way the torque converter clutch is brought on the face of the torque converter plate became glazed and continues to get progressively glazed...the reason for the shudder. AutoTrans made an AODE Shudder Fix that had to be spliced into MCC curcuit in the value body. They may still be some around in transmission parts distrubutors or on Ebay.......it called an Autotrans AODE Shudder Fix 93-97 #76918-SF . If the glazing was too bad and the shudder too pronounec the fix could not rectify the problem and a new torque converter was required. Leave the SF in as it will prevent the problem coming back in the new converter. Ford also tested adding a cooler and Lubegard's Shudder Fix. I was told the cooler help and the additive help but only for a period of time ...then the shudder was back. The AT fix was the best but they recently went out of business. Bill > From: lerner@ka.net > I'm sure it's torque converter shudder. Here is the deal. My check [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc It's fixed. Someone tell me i'm crazy. I know for sure it was shudder. I was told by others even. My engine was probably missing longer than I knew. When it got bad enough I noticed. It's because of what was said here that it's fixed and it went way to long. I drove the car as much as possible in a way that I knew would avoid the shudder at least. That helped some. Now I can't even make it shudder. I feel the engine stumble brought on the shudder. The light still comes on and off. Here is all I did. I put a 20 oz. bottle of Dupont fuel injector cleaner with wear shield in my tank. The shudder is gone and it's running so much better. $3.99 this costs at target. For now I love the car and want to fix all the smaller problems. Thanks to the guys that don't think I'm crazy. This makes sense to me that it worked. |
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