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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / April 2006

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this is a thinking cap problem...

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c palmer - 15 Apr 2006 23:56 GMT
1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.  runs fine until symptom appears.

happens on interstate speeds.  

it has been on cruise control for about an hour.  the engine will go to
stumbling and missing, but will idle nicely, if you come to a stop on
the side of the road.  when calling for power like in acceleration, it
will miss badly.   at first, one will think it is the fuel system, but
this has been ruled out already.

now, i'm looking at the engine's ignition management system.

it appears to be a temperature related problem because if you let the
car cool off for a few minutes, it will run great until 15 to 20 minutes
down the road and the same symptoms appear.

logic tells me that there's a computer in the ignition system that is
having something opening up and it is dropping the system down into to
run in the "fall safe" mode.

i just wonder if anyone has had this happen to them and can tell me
where to look at the found the guilty module.   x-ray diagnosis didn't
turn up anything.

thanks,

~ curtis

another hint - on board computer shows the overall gas mileage will drop
from 23 miles to gallon to 12 when symptom happens.

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Tom Adkins - 16 Apr 2006 00:54 GMT
> 1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.  runs fine until symptom appears.
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
> http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

 No real mystery. Your OEM plug wires are going bad and/or you have Bosch plugs and
aftermarket plug wires installed. If OEM they're 13 yeaes old. These cars don't like
Bosch plugs and eat aftermarket wires for lunch. A failing coil pack is a possibility
but it is more commonly the plugs or wires.
c palmer - 16 Apr 2006 01:12 GMT
No real mystery. Your OEM plug wires are going bad and/or you have Bosch
plugs and aftermarket plug wires installed. If OEM they're 13 yeaes old.
These cars don't like Bosch plugs and eat aftermarket wires for lunch. A
failing coil pack is a possibility but it is more commonly the plugs or
wires.
=======
hi tom - thanks for the input, but here's the update...

OEM wires were replaced (with ford wires) and have less than 15,000
miles.  doesn't have bosch plugs,  went back the original brand.

the car runs flawlessly for that hour or so, and then the symptom
appears,  if problem were to happen with wires or plugs, it would
usually show up either when they are cold or somewhere during that first
hour of driving or under full load condition sometimes.   i don't even
have a hint of lack of performance during that first hour.

i've not had a coil pack go bad before, so i'm lost on that one.  my
question would be - doesn't a coil pack have one cylinder not firing
correctly?   when the symptom appears, it doesn't have a repeating dead
end, but a sputter type response, similar to a lack of fuel and then, it
might hit on all eight cylinders for a 1/2 mile or so, but the key to
the symptom seems to be that if you try to push the engine down the road
after the symptoms appear, the more you feel like you might be pushing
the car in another mile are so, because the symptoms, just keep getting
worse to where it has no power to pull itself, like up a hill.  for
example,  one event, i was traveling at 75 mph, but by the time, i was
at the top of the hill, it was down to 43 and that was not of cruise
control but feathering the throttle trying to get the every bit of power
i could out of the engine.  

i pulled off to the side of the road within a 1/2 mile of this event and
the running was purring like nothing was wrong.  put it in gear and call
for power and it feels like it wants to stall and will buck and snort.
turn the engine off, wait a few minutes and the engine runs great again
with lots of power.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
gerald2003r - 16 Apr 2006 01:41 GMT
Just a thought but you could have a faulty EGR or related plumbing.

Gerald

> No real mystery. Your OEM plug wires are going bad and/or you have Bosch
> plugs and aftermarket plug wires installed. If OEM they're 13 yeaes old.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
> http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Bob - 16 Apr 2006 03:49 GMT
> No real mystery. Your OEM plug wires are going bad and/or you have Bosch
> plugs and aftermarket plug wires installed. If OEM they're 13 yeaes old.
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> ~ curtis

If you haven't replaced the fuel filter lately do it now and let us know
what happens.
                                            Bob
Tom Adkins - 16 Apr 2006 05:00 GMT
> OEM wires were replaced (with ford wires) and have less than 15,000
> miles.  doesn't have bosch plugs,  went back the original brand.

  Very smart move. 4.6s like Bosch plugs and cheap plug wires about as much as a 4
year old likes spinach and lima beans.

 With the extra info, Yep, that's a head scratcher. That hour of good performance
throws me. There's 2 things that come to mind for your symptoms, but they don't seem
the fit the conditions that you describe exactly. First, pull the plug wires and apply
a liberal amount of dielectric grease to the boots then drive it to see if there is
any change. Then, clean the element on the MAF sensor with a non residual solvent, see
if that changes anything. Obviously check the fuel pressure when the symptoms occour,
but I wouldn't expect to see a large drop in fuel economy if the engine is not getting
enough fuel to start with.
 I recall hearing something about flaky Crank Position Sensor connections being
common on these motors but I don't remember the details.
CJB - 16 Apr 2006 18:01 GMT
>> OEM wires were replaced (with ford wires) and have less than 15,000
>> miles.  doesn't have bosch plugs,  went back the original brand.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>  I recall hearing something about flaky Crank Position Sensor connections
> being common on these motors but I don't remember the details.

Interesting that you'd mention timing.  Except for the part about it taking
an hour to happen, doesn't this sound like a timing problem:  An extreme
lack of power, falls on its face under load, yet idles fine.

The only other thing not mentioned that might explain it all is a bad
catalytic converter.

CJB
ShoeSaleman - 17 Apr 2006 05:53 GMT
>> 1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.  runs fine until symptom appears.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> for lunch. A failing coil pack is a possibility but it is more commonly
> the plugs or wires.

No codes even when it misses badly?  hmmmm.  15K on the plugs and wires
isn't exactly new. Im with Tom. Have you even looked at the wires,
pulled them out of those deep, water and gunk collector holes they're
in? Its amazing how a 4.6 can kill wires and plugs. Did you use the 32pp
plugs?(iirc) Start with the basics :)Someone mentioned a crank sensor.
I've seen them cause a no start but not a miss on a cv but you never
know....Try to get it to set a miss code....or some code :)
Shel-hed - 16 Apr 2006 01:59 GMT
I only have guesses...
In old cars, this sounds like a pickup coil or ballast resistor.
It also sounds like the symptoms in my neighbors 91 bronco, his ignition module
died.  It's mounted on his distributor, which gets hotter as the car runs.

>1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.  runs fine until symptom appears.
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
>http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Backyard Mechanic - 16 Apr 2006 02:14 GMT
Have the codes read out.   Then come back with them. Codes, not
definitions

> 1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.  runs fine until symptom appears.
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes
> so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Backyard Mechanic - 16 Apr 2006 02:18 GMT
Here's another thought:

1. Get a can of 'circuit cooler', locate all suspect modules, then when
it happens.. spray them (heat sink not the plastic) and see what one
affects and what one doesnt

2. When it happens, go back and vent the gas tank.. tighten it back and
try immediately

> 1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.  runs fine until symptom appears.
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes
> so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

c palmer - 16 Apr 2006 03:56 GMT
probably the easiest way to answer these responses is in one message....

======

From: gerald2003r@yahoo.com (gerald2003r)
Just a thought but you could have a faulty EGR or related plumbing.
Gerald
-------
hi gerald - had typical EGR problem long time ago.  fixed it, not had
problem since.  on related plumbing - all rubber tubing that collapses
for ford's poor design over time, (for example - the "t" connector and
the driver's side hose behind engine have all been replaced.
========

From: mush-hed@privacy.org (Shel-hed)
I only have guesses...
In old cars, this sounds like a pickup coil or ballast resistor. It also
sounds like the symptoms in my neighbors 91 bronco, his ignition module
died. It's mounted on his distributor, which gets hotter as the car
runs.

----------
hi shel-hed - on the 4.6L, it doesn't have a distributor, or ballast
resistor -  so that rules out the common problem that ford had on what
you described.  but that would have been one of the things i would have
jumped on had the engine had a distributor.

==========
From: pettyfog@yaywho.com (Backyard Mechanic)
Have the codes read out.   Then come back with them. Codes, not
definitions

hi backyard - no codes are coming out - that's the problem.  that's the
head scratcher......

Here's another thought:
1. Get a can of 'circuit cooler', locate all suspect modules, then when
it happens.. spray them (heat sink not the plastic) and see what one
affects and what one doesnt
-----> i hadn't done that yet and had gave it some thought, but i will
probably have to carry it in the car and perform road side
troubleshooting when this happens.  was hoping that someone had ran into
this problem from the symptoms i was describing.

2. When it happens, go back and vent the gas tank.. tighten it back and
try immediately

------> tried that the first, second, and third time it happened.  made
no difference.

thanks for all the input so far.  i really do appreciate it.  

i've had some real hair pullers in my time and they usually end up one
of two ways.  
1.  the "wow!" i could have had a V-8.  so simple and it's one of those
slam yourself on the forehead type solutions.

2.  the bastard case.   you happen to just catch it at the right time
and were standing at the right place.  any other time, it doesn't show
up.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Richard - 16 Apr 2006 04:41 GMT
probably the easiest way to answer these responses is in one message....

======

From: gerald2003r@yahoo.com (gerald2003r)
Just a thought but you could have a faulty EGR or related plumbing.
Gerald
-------
hi gerald - had typical EGR problem long time ago.  fixed it, not had
problem since.  on related plumbing - all rubber tubing that collapses
for ford's poor design over time, (for example - the "t" connector and
the driver's side hose behind engine have all been replaced.
========

From: mush-hed@privacy.org (Shel-hed)
I only have guesses...
In old cars, this sounds like a pickup coil or ballast resistor. It also
sounds like the symptoms in my neighbors 91 bronco, his ignition module
died. It's mounted on his distributor, which gets hotter as the car
runs.

----------
hi shel-hed - on the 4.6L, it doesn't have a distributor, or ballast
resistor -  so that rules out the common problem that ford had on what
you described.  but that would have been one of the things i would have
jumped on had the engine had a distributor.

==========
From: pettyfog@yaywho.com (Backyard Mechanic)
Have the codes read out. Then come back with them. Codes, not
definitions

hi backyard - no codes are coming out - that's the problem.  that's the
head scratcher......

Here's another thought:
1. Get a can of 'circuit cooler', locate all suspect modules, then when
it happens.. spray them (heat sink not the plastic) and see what one
affects and what one doesnt
-----> i hadn't done that yet and had gave it some thought, but i will
probably have to carry it in the car and perform road side
troubleshooting when this happens.  was hoping that someone had ran into
this problem from the symptoms i was describing.

2. When it happens, go back and vent the gas tank.. tighten it back and
try immediately

------> tried that the first, second, and third time it happened.  made
no difference.

thanks for all the input so far.  i really do appreciate it.

i've had some real hair pullers in my time and they usually end up one
of two ways.
1.  the "wow!" i could have had a V-8.  so simple and it's one of those
slam yourself on the forehead type solutions.

2.  the bastard case.   you happen to just catch it at the right time
and were standing at the right place.  any other time, it doesn't show
up.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Is vapor lock unheard of  in fuel injected engines?

Richard
gerald2003r - 16 Apr 2006 06:44 GMT
If it were me I would go for the coil pack, BUT before I did that I
would disconnect the battery for 10 minutes or so to lose anything
stored in the computer. Maybe look at the coil pack electrical feed
connections? I don't know the design of the coil pack enough and it
would be interesting if someone here could speak about it to say if the
1993 series coil packs are one as a unit of if they will fail seperatly
per cylinder? When it comes to engine management I think computer...
Disconect that Battery and see what happens first... The computer is
also going to tell the injectors when to fire. I understand the heat
failure idea but I'm thinking the computer forgot what to do idea is
also plausable. Worth a shot...

Happy Easter..

Gerald
Backyard Mechanic - 16 Apr 2006 04:13 GMT
>   at first, one will think it is the fuel system, but
> this has been ruled out already.

IOW, you are saying you KNOW you have proper fuel pressure AT THE TIME the
Engine is running badly.

Hate to be a poopy-head.... but you DONT call a consultant into your
business to solve a problem and tell him the obvious has been ruled out
without reviewing it.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

c palmer - 16 Apr 2006 08:07 GMT
bob wrote - If you haven't replaced the fuel filter lately do it now and
let us know what happens.

---------> fuel pump and filter both replaced about six months ago.  

before fuel pump and filter were replaced - the engine did have one
episode similar to what i'm describing about 9 months after about 2
hours of interstate driving, but i was close to home when it was acting
up   and was going to work on it later that day but problem went away,
so didn't give much thought.  now, it seems to be back and a lot more
frequently, and with a new pump and filter in place.

========
From: pettyfog@yaywho.com (Backyard Mechanic)
PALMER_ENT@webtv.net (c palmer) wrote:
    at first, one will think it is the fuel system, but this has
been ruled out already.

IOW, you are saying you KNOW you have proper fuel pressure AT THE TIME
the Engine is running badly.
Hate to be a poopy-head.... but you DONT call a consultant into your
business to solve a problem and tell him the obvious has been ruled out
without reviewing it.

-------> don't worry about being a poopy -head, i'll take any ideas and
leads.  :))

you are right, i didn't have a fuel gauge with me at the time it was
acting up.  but, what puts a spin on this problem is that i have been
able to put it in neutral, kill the engine and coast almost a mile on a
down grade. (thinking that the passing air would cool down the part or
module)  when the speed drops down to where traffic is passing me, i can
start the engine and it runs great.  have even taken on the next steep
hill under full throttle delivery figuring that if it is a fuel delivery
problem, holding the engine's feet to the fire for a longer duration
than what one takes to pass, should show up something  - if it was fuel
related, but the engine hung in there and kept delivering the power with
no miss or stubble.

=============

From: gerald2003r@yahoo.com (gerald2003r)

Is vapor lock unheard of in fuel injected engines?

------->i, personally, haven't heard of a fuel injected engine vapor
locking.
=======

If it were me I would go for the coil pack, BUT before I did that I
would disconnect the battery for 10 minutes or so to lose anything
stored in the computer. Maybe look at the coil pack electrical feed
connections? I don't know the design of the coil pack enough and it
would be interesting if someone here could speak about it to say if the
1993 series coil packs are one as a unit of if they will fail separately
per cylinder? When it comes to engine management I think computer...
Disconect that Battery and see what happens first... The computer is
also going to tell the injectors when to fire. I understand the heat
failure idea but I'm thinking the computer forgot what to do idea is
also plausible. Worth a shot...

==========

-------> the coil pack design are four to a side - up front.  they don't
get the heat as they would if they were installed on the back side of
the engine or in the case of the 1998 and up with the coil over plug
design, where heat is a common problem in killing the module.

the check engine light does comes on, but it is a soft core error, and
the computer resets itself,  when the key is turned off.

i haven't been able to get to anywhere to pull the codes when the check
engine light comes on.  just seems that i'm at the wrong place at that
particular time.   along with the can of "quick kool", i should bring my
x-ray hook up unit too.

---------
From: newton5@remove.comcast.net (Tom Adkins)

    With the extra info, Yep, that's a head scratcher. That hour
of good performance throws me. There's 2 things that come to mind for
your symptoms, but they don't seem the fit the conditions that you
describe exactly. First, pull the plug wires and apply a liberal amount
of dielectric grease to the boots then drive it to see if there is any
change. Then, clean the element on the MAF sensor with a non residual
solvent, see if that changes anything. Obviously check the fuel pressure
when the symptoms occur, but I wouldn't expect to see a large drop in
fuel economy if the engine is not getting enough fuel to start with.
    I recall hearing something about flaky Crank Position Sensor
connections being common on these motors but I don't remember the
details.

============

--------> anything is possible when it comes to mechanics, that's for
sure.  but the plug wires are fairly new.  i just pulled them after i
read your post and the boots are still good and soft, with no evidence
of carbon tracking.

the reason i replaced them was because it did have a repeated misfiring
(common for plugs and wires) and it did fix the problem right away and
it was permanent.

with the MAF sensor, i don't think would keep resetting itself.  by
that, i'm referring to where the engine, goes right back up to the 23 -
25 mpg range after the problem resolves itself.  that is, until, the
symptoms show it and then, the computer's overall mileage - after reset
- will show 12 - 13 mpg while the engine is acting up.

i'm not aware of how the flaky crankshaft sensors are suppose to behave
when they are going out.   unless my thinking is off, i'm thinking that
when the engine doesn't get the crankshaft sensor input, it just doesn't
fire.  this engine fires, but sputters-like and i have to keep in mind
that it still idles great when these symptoms are going on, just can't
call for power from the engine when it is in this state.   another head
scratcher.

---------------
maybe, i'm just getting too old for this stuff and they can just hook it
up to another computer and let the two computers talk to each other.  i
know in time, the part will fail and then it's easy to find, but i don't
want to be miles from home.  wife has had two heart attacks, plus two
partly stopped up stents and i've got two different cancers chewing on
me and bum knees.  so neither one of us don't need be walking on the
interstate, especially, if you know that something is not quite right
under the hood.   i use the car a lot to go the VA hospital in the next
state over for treatments and follow up visits.  that might explain why
a lot of interstate driving.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
gerald2003r - 16 Apr 2006 09:51 GMT
Easy... You are on the right track and you have allot of peoples
attention... Slow down... You did quote me as being on the "Vapor Lock
trail" ... Not with Injection... Count me out of that... Don't worry I
know it was just a mis quote. Disconnect the battery! ... 10 minutes
and then quote me ok... Smile... Happy Easter...

Gerald
El Bandito - 16 Apr 2006 07:59 GMT
Wires/plugs?

Signature

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(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

> 1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.  runs fine until symptom appears.
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
> http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Tom - 16 Apr 2006 12:02 GMT
look to see if the last person to do an oil change missed the fill hole in
the valve cover and dumped oil down the intake. if he did, the oil will fill
the plug holes, and short out the wires, causing a noncode  miss on
acceleration.  i have seen this 3 times now.
c palmer - 17 Apr 2006 02:29 GMT
From: gerald2003r@yahoo.com (gerald2003r)

Easy... You are on the right track and you have allot of peoples
attention... Slow down... You did quote me as being on the "Vapor Lock
trail" ... Not with Injection... Count me out of that... Don't worry I
know it was just a mis quote. Disconnect the battery! ... 10 minutes and
then quote me ok... Smile... Happy Easter...
Gerald
-----
hi gerald - i've should have mentioned that was one of the first things
that i did back when i noticed this symptom.  i call it clearing the
pad.  that way if anything shows up, you know for a fact, it was after
that point in time.  i really do appreciate your input.

=============

From: tjctransport@optonline.net (Tom)

look to see if the last person to do an oil change missed the fill hole
in the valve cover and dumped oil down the intake. if he did, the oil
will fill the plug holes, and short out the wires, causing a noncode
miss on acceleration. i have seen this 3 times now.

---------
hi tom - i've always performed the maintenance of my vehicles for the
past 45 years.  and you are right about some of the things that can
happen when people get there oil changed.  but the joker in this
particular deck is that it runs just fine for some time and then,
wham!!!!  it acts up,  let it sit, and it runs great again - without
anybody touching it.  that is why i think it is heat related problem.

=============
From: repairman54@earthlink.net (Repairman)

You need a fuel pressure tester on the rail when it acts up, had a
Taurus that drove me crazy that acted the same way. Fuel pump was
heating up and losing pressure, would come back after sitting and
cooling down. Putting fresh gas into the tank would cool the pump down
and get me going again. Even though your pump is new it could be
defective, fuel pressure tester is as important as a code reader
nowadays.

-------

hi repairman - no argument about what you said.  gauges do provide a lot
of input.  i don't know if they make a fuel pressure gauge that you can
screw end and leave there.  if not, i'll create something and when it
happens, as you said, it will give me up to date information at that
point when i open the hood.

==========

From: colonyparkwagon@excite.nospam (CJB)
"Tom Adkins"

Interesting that you'd mention timing. Except for the part about it
taking an hour to happen, doesn't this sound like a timing problem: An
extreme lack of power, falls on its face under load, yet idles fine.

The only other thing not mentioned that might explain it all is a bad
catalytic converter.

---------
hi tom - hate to rain on the parade on this one, but i can run the car
under full throttle and it doesn't want to lug or even a hint that it
has a back pressure on the exhaust.   in fact, i ran the engine to the
upper RPM's under full load to push the air flow through the pipes and
couldn't see anything out of the ordinary.   thanks for the input.  it
keeps me on my toes.

i guess i should mention that i've got a few mustang GT's and i'm use to
performance.   so, what this engine has done, it's so far out of the
ordinary.  runs great for a hour, then, wants to lay down and die, has
got me to putting the thinking cap on.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Repairman - 16 Apr 2006 14:31 GMT
You need a fuel pressure tester on the rail when it acts up, had a Taurus
that drove me crazy that acted the same way. Fuel pump was heating up and
losing pressure, would come back after sitting and cooling down.  Putting
fresh gas into the tank would cool the pump down and get me going again.
Even though your pump is new it could be defective, fuel pressure tester is
as important as a code reader nowadays.
Rodan - 17 Apr 2006 04:02 GMT
"c palmer" wrote:    1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.

on cruise control for about an hour, the engine will go to
stumbling and missing, but will idle nicely if you stop on
the side of the road.    when accelerating, it will miss badly.
a fuel system problem has been ruled out.

it appears to be temperature related - if you let the car
cool off for a few minutes, it will run great until 15 to 20
minutes down the road and the same symptoms appear.

has anyone had this happen and can tell me where to look.
x-ray diagnosis didn't turn up anything.
__________________________________________________

Over the years, every time I have had intermittent
ignition problems related to temperature or time of
operation, it was a failing ignition module.

Rodan.

___________________________________
Backyard Mechanic - 17 Apr 2006 11:27 GMT
> "c palmer" wrote:    1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.
>
> on cruise control for about an hour, the engine will go to
> stumbling and missing, but will idle nicely if you stop on
> the side of the road.    when accelerating, it will miss badly.
> a fuel system problem has been ruled out.

That reference to CC keeps coming up .  Had a problem with my 95 taurus
about 3 years ago, where it seemed to fall on it's face for about half a
second just after I switch CC on; then recovered and worked okay.

Next trip, it ran fine till I switched CC on... few seconds later it died
completely and wouldnt restart till a few minutes went by.
I avoided switching on CC again till I replaced the servo unit.  Havent had
that  problem since.

Dunno if that's your problem but sounds a little similar.  Note the effect
lingered after key was off-then on. a headscratcher.

Signature

Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

gerald2003r - 18 Apr 2006 10:17 GMT
Pardon me here Krusty, But what is CC? Coming from hp you learn a lot
of acronyms (Spelling) but I don't know this one CC?

Gerald
gerald2003r - 18 Apr 2006 10:18 GMT
Oh sorry... Cruise control... Ouch!

Gerald
Tom Adkins - 17 Apr 2006 11:57 GMT
> "c palmer" wrote:    1993 lincoln T.C. 4.6L.
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> ___________________________________

 This is true... but, the 4.6 doesn't have an ignition module per se. The ignition is
controlled by the PCM. It could be the problem but that would be the first time I've
seen or heard of it on one of these cars.
 Curtis, If you have definately ruled out the ignition system, move on to the fuel
pressure. Use a gauge with a long hose taped to the outside of the windshield.
c palmer - 18 Apr 2006 09:16 GMT
hi guys - i really do appreciate your inputs.

i took the car on a 350 mile trip today.  it ran great, with not a hint
of a problem.  

cleared computer before i left, so if anything happened, it would be in
memory, but got no codes when i got back home.

the only variable that was different was that it was 91º sunday and
today, it was 65º going one way and 55º on the return trip.

gas mileage normally runs about 23 - 24 mpg and this time, the computer
said it was getting 25.1mpg.    

still scratching my head, but please keep this problem i have in mind if
i get more symptoms to add to the mix.

right now, i'm leaning toward - temp problem causing a module to
intermittently  fail,  but the summer is still young......

thanks again,

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
gerald2003r - 18 Apr 2006 10:28 GMT
Did you do something to get it to run well? Did you find a final
solution? If not and it ran well today it sounds like an electrical
connection to me... Heat and moisture can change the way contacts
adhere to each other. Cleaning the electrical contacts on older cars I
think will help allot. There are many and some are weatherized but some
are not. It's a chore for the older car person. They are making it
easier as time goes on with weatherized connectors but most were meant
for vital connections in the 1990's 2000's. shame really!

Gerald
c palmer - 18 Apr 2006 21:19 GMT
From: gerald2003r@yahoo.com (gerald2003r)

Did you do something to get it to run well? Did you find a final
solution? If not and it ran well today it sounds like an electrical
connection to me... Heat and moisture can change the way contacts adhere
to each other. Cleaning the electrical contacts on older cars I think
will help allot. There are many and some are weatherized but some are
not. It's a chore for the older car person. They are making it easier as
time goes on with weatherized connectors but most were meant for vital
connections in the 1990's 2000's. shame really!
Gerald
=======
only joker in the deck is that when before my dad died, he had a wreck
with it in 1996.  he pulled out and it took the hit on the driver's
front fender and wheel.  it was not a head on crash.

i also know that a hard mechanical jolt from a wreck can do strange
things to cars that you normally don't think about.  electrial
connectors get jarred.  wires get pinched or pushed into an area that
will cause the coating to rub off of them after many miles of travel.
not the usual stuff.

(see p.s. post)

i guess i'm keeping the car for memories, normally, not my style.

but, in answer to your questions, no, i haven't done anything to the car
other then clear the computer memory in order to make sure there were no
left over codes from something that may have been stuck in there.

again, used the car to go to the local VA clinic and did some running
around the city.  about 50 miles -  ran great.  but the temp is only in
the low 70's.   that is what i want to keep my eye on- the raising temps
- and see if the problem comes back.

~ curtis
=======
p.s. post......

unrelated - but interesting - i had an accident investigator on the
police force tell me that in an accident, that a vehicles involved in an
accident may get hit three times are higher - depending on the speed at
the time.  i asked him to explain this to me.

here is what he said.

let's say you are rear ended.   you get hit by the vehicle from behind -
that impact number one.

as your vehicle is push forward,  the vehicle that hit you transferred
part of it's energy into you and for a split second, it slowed down and
you moved away from the vehicle behind and there is a distance between
you.

now, impact number two -   after  your impact, your vehicle is going to
slow down and the vehicle behind is still traveling at a faster rate
than you are - assuming you were stopped.  so, it will ram you again,
transferring more energy and causing your vehicle to shoot forward.

impact number three - basically the same as impact number two.

where this comes into play is personal injury.   the body is responding
from the initial hit and then is struck again, and again, very fast.
while your body is responding to the first hit, it get hits again.  this
causes the body to snap around and give the whiplash effect, that you
hear of.

where you really notice this effect that he was describing is at a train
switching yard.  you have see and hear the boxcar as it hit the car is
joining up to a couple of times at least.

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
ds549@webtv.net - 18 Apr 2006 21:36 GMT
 crank position sensor will do that and not give a code....but dont
quote me..lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
gerald2003r - 19 Apr 2006 09:45 GMT
Good idea!

Gerald
 
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