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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / April 2006Oil price/profit hysteria
Some of you people should be ashamed.. It's as if you slept through General Business and Econ 101 - I didnt but I got on Prof's sh.t list for deriding Keynesian tax theories. First think: Who determines price per barrel What is 'net' profit v gross profit before tax What is a "profit margin" And foremost... WHO is it suffers from retail boycotts? But worse of all..... advocating buying gas from a tin-pot socialist state oil company, instead of those who have to compete in the market!  SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! > Some of you people should be ashamed.. > It's as if you slept through General Business and Econ 101 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > First think: > Who determines price per barrel Market usually determines prices, however, OPEC is a syndicate, they dictate price and production as they see fit, rare in free market business. > What is 'net' profit v gross profit before tax Net is gross minus deductions. > What is a "profit margin" Net profit divided by revenues. > And foremost... WHO is it suffers from retail boycotts? The dumbasses boycotting are the ones suffering. They are boycotting and denying themselves the good or services of the business in question. > But worse of all..... advocating buying gas from a tin-pot socialist > state > oil company, instead of those who have to compete in the market! Competition lowers prices and inproved quality. The big oild companies are recording record profits, just like a company should, the idea behind forming a company is to profit the owners/shareholders. The US economy is good, lots of companies are making good or record profits (check out the stock market). The US auto industry is hurting, due to high labor costs compared to lower labor costs that foreign owned auto makers who assemble in the US using non-union labor. The unions will have to give a little. The news media is hurting for a story, so they seem stuck on big oil. Adjusted for inflation, gas would be close to $10.00 a gallon. Frank Cut that out, there is no room for logic in the NGs. ;) The thing that most folks seem to forget is that EVERY time the Congress calls the oil company executives in front of a Committee to investigate the cause of higher gas prices, the result of the investigation ALWAYS shows the increase is a result of global supply and demand. Does anybody ever search the Congressional Record for the result of the Congressional committees investigation? If not, you will never hear about them from the mass media. Use a little logic if the oil companies could actually control the price of gas it would never go down in price when the supply goes up or the demand slows down. The folks that control the price of EVERYTHING that comes out of a barrel of crude not only gasoline, are the commodities market speculators, period. Currently they are betting that the world wide demand will exceed supply for the foreseeable future, and are willing to pay $75 a barrel for oil futures. Lets get real mike hunt >> Some of you people should be ashamed.. >> It's as if you slept through General Business and Econ 101 [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Frank >> Some of you people should be ashamed.. >> It's as if you slept through General Business and Econ 101 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dictate price and production as they see fit, rare in free market > business. What percentage of US oil comes from OPEC countries? What percentage of the world's oil comes from OPEC countries? When you answer the questions, you will see that OPEC doesn't dictate anything. >> What is 'net' profit v gross profit before tax > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > The news media is hurting for a story, so they seem stuck on big oil. > Adjusted for inflation, gas would be close to $10.00 a gallon. Labor unions don't have to give up a thing. Of course, if they keep on the course they are going, they might not have jobs, either. Jeff > Frank > First think: > Who determines price per barrel The answer.. as some have gleaned, is COMMODITIES TRADERS! OPEC can only control the FLOOR price of their oil, increasingly what they charge has little to no effect on the market. > What is 'net' profit v gross profit before tax This is a rhetorical question... though one I would put before Senator Clinton to see if she knows it. She came up with the bright idea that the oil companies should give back some their 'obscene' profits to the public... never mind this would reduce the taxes paid by the same companies. Bush RIGHTLY advised that the tax breaks given some of these companies, to promote various manadated programs and research should be rescinded... when times are good, they dont need them. > What is a "profit margin" When you figure that out, check it out against Procter and Gambles'... then figure out WHO it is sees that profit, like in their 401K's and ERA's ... fat cats driving 3 year old Taurii and ten year old Mustangs, and building to their retirement. > And foremost... WHO is it suffers from retail boycotts? The retail employees and... SB owners who worked years for a business of their own > But worse of all..... advocating buying gas from a tin-pot socialist > state oil company, instead of those who have to compete in the market! Citgo is owned by a Venezuelan state owned company... and increasingly used by Chavez to make political points. SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, and sometimes I wonder if idiocy is catching! >> First think: >> Who determines price per barrel [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > public... never mind this would reduce the taxes paid by the same > companies. Yea, wouldn't the oil companies love that deduction! > Bush RIGHTLY advised that the tax breaks given some of these companies, > to promote various manadated programs and research should be rescinded... > when times are good, they dont need them. There was a report in the local paper that the US Government pays in the area of 5 billion dollars, in subsidies, to the oil companies for exploration and other issues. >> What is a "profit margin" > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Citgo is owned by a Venezuelan state owned company... and increasingly > used by Chavez to make political points. The oil companies are making to much in profits, says Hilary and the Dimocrats. Their answer to the rising price of gas is to do what they always do to settle every problem, raise taxes. Windfall taxes, like all taxes paid by any business, are passed on to the consumer as just one more cost of doing business. The truth is the largest 'profits' earned, on the gas you buy, goes to the various governments. Currently the states, at an average of 26c and the feds at .185c, individually are making more per gallon than any of the oil companies. In addition the oil companies pay the federal corporate tax of 41% on net income. Shareholders also pay income taxes, at their prevailing rate, on the dividend they receive from profits on which the oil company have already paid corporate taxes. You do the math LOL mike hunt >>> First think: >>> Who determines price per barrel [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >>> What is 'net' profit v gross profit before tax > There was a report in the local paper that the US Government pays in the > area of 5 billion dollars, in subsidies, to the oil companies for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, and sometimes I wonder if idiocy is >> catching! A reason, however big or small, why our overall economy is fairly good in the US. > The oil companies are making to much in profits, says Hilary and the > Dimocrats. Their answer to the rising price of gas is to do what they [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>> Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, and sometimes I wonder if idiocy is >>> catching! > The oil companies are making to much in profits, says Hilary and the > Dimocrats. I am not sure what a Dimocrat is. If you have to do name-calling to make your point, you probably don't have much of a point to make. The oil companies felt compelled to put ads in the New York Times to argue that they don't make too much money. Funny thing is that the numbers were different than the ones they send to investors and the SEC. > Their answer to the rising price of gas is to do what they always do to > settle every problem, raise taxes. Really? And what have the Republicans done to help with the gas prices? End the war in Iraq? > Windfall taxes, like all taxes paid by any business, are passed on to the > consumer as just one more cost of doing business. Actually, the costs would be paid more by their stockholders, who are enjoying record profits. > The truth is the largest 'profits' earned, on the gas you buy, goes to > the various governments. Currently the states, at an average of 26c and > the feds at .185c, individually are making more per gallon than any of the > oil companies. Actually, the feds get 100 times more than you quoted: they get 18 cents, not .185 cents, per gallon. As of April 24, the total amount that the governments get in CA is about $0.59. The refineries get $0.84 to $0.;90 for profit and refining. In March, the profit and refining costs were about $0.47 to $0.54. Either the costs of refining gasoline went way up in about 6 weeks' time, or the oil companies are getting a lot more profit. http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html What do the states do with the money? Repair and build roads. > In addition the oil companies pay the federal corporate tax of 41% on net > income. > Shareholders also pay income taxes, at their prevailing rate, on the > dividend they receive from profits on which the oil company have already > paid corporate taxes. You do the math LOL I agree that it is ridiculus that people end up paying twice on dividends, although the rate individuals pay on dividends is less than the regular income tax rate. Jeff > mike hunt > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>> Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, and sometimes I wonder if idiocy is >>> catching! > As of April 24, the total amount that the governments get in CA is > about $0.59. The refineries get $0.84 to $0.;90 for profit and > refining. In March, the profit and refining costs were about $0.47 to > $0.54. Either the costs of refining gasoline went way up in about 6 > weeks' time, or the oil companies are getting a lot more profit. I suggest you look at that first chart up there... which shows the same date by year costs and profits. Obviously there is a cyclical element... but several things have to be taken into consideration, Seasonal blend switchover, and, this year, MTBE purging perhaps. It all comes down to this... if there is excess profit, someone else will gain by that in a free market. I'll say it again... this wont be solved by going off half-cocked led by demogogic elected officials who already think the voter is stupid. All that's happening here, is they are being proved right. SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! >> The oil companies are making to much in profits, says Hilary and the >> Dimocrats. > > I am not sure what a Dimocrat is. If you have to do name-calling to > make your point, you probably don't have much of a point to make. An old saw... sometimes true sometimes not, Go read Democratic Undergraound and Kos comments sections, then come back > The oil companies felt compelled to put ads in the New York Times to > argue that they don't make too much money. Funny thing is that the > numbers were different than the ones they send to investors and the > SEC. WHO SAYS??!!! support your claim, your drive-by missed. >> Their answer to the rising price of gas is to do what they always do >> to settle every problem, raise taxes. > > Really? And what have the Republicans done to help with the gas > prices? End the war in Iraq? So... in other words, you accept the statement. BTW; Kerry must be thrilled, he proposed raising the excise tax 90 cents to promote conservation. >> Windfall taxes, like all taxes paid by any business, are passed on >> to the >> consumer as just one more cost of doing business. > > Actually, the costs would be paid more by their stockholders, who are > enjoying record profits. Okay... now we're going to get to the meat of it. Your email says 'kidsdoc' so let's say you're a practicing physician. You have many expenses in doing business.. among which is paying off that huge college loan. So with that and the office and equipment costs, how do you determine what to charge and what income you should get? Do you figure out how much a year you need to make to break even, then set your fees to cover that? Or do you figure in profit - meaning net income after business and personal/living costs? That net income, then would be DISPOSABLE INCOME.. meaning it's surplus to what you need to just live a comfortable lower-middle class life in your area plus pay for kids' schooling and your retirement. On what basis do you set that? As a percentage of your overall outlay and expenses.. or simply a flat amount? IF YOU ARE SMART..you use a percentage, that's what REAL BUSINESSES do. The reason for this is that you have no way to tell the future... if the cost of office space, equipment and personal living expense goes up, you are handling much more money and there is a cost to that. So... the greater your business costs are, your disposable income should reflect that as a percentage of the overall handle. Because it is YOU that is taking the risk, there's no-one there to backstop you when things arent so good. Now, let's say there's a recession or depression and lots of people lose their health care and dont visit as often... you are still left with the leasing and business costs -at least until you can renegotiate- but your income drastically drops. If you had set a fixed 'FAIR' amount for your disposable income and that is now gone, what would you fall back on? SMART people have incorporated themselves so the effects are minimal due to the businesslike accounting methods they would use to minimize the risk.So... when times are good OR the cost of doing business goes up, so does the profit or disposable income... as a PERCENTAGE of GROSS HANDLE. SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! Lets face it how many guys in a NG really know anything about running a business? ;) mike hunt >>> The oil companies are making to much in profits, says Hilary and the >>> Dimocrats. >> Actually, the costs would be paid more by their stockholders, who are >> enjoying record profits. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > risk.So... when times are good OR the cost of doing business goes up, so > does the profit or disposable income... as a PERCENTAGE of GROSS HANDLE. > Lets face it how many guys in a NG really know anything about running a > business? ;) Unsure how to take that... as I have never run a business. However... I DO pay attention and think about things using common sense. Now... that brings up the OBVIOUS FOLLOW-ON QUESTION.. > Lets face it how many guys in a NG really think about issues like this > using common sense? SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! I thought it was obvious I was not referring to those that actually own a profitable business. The comment was directed to those that THINK they know how to run somebody else's business. I'll bet not a one of then even knows the reason why a smart person goes into business. mike hunt >> Lets face it how many guys in a NG really know anything about running a >> business? ;) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> Lets face it how many guys in a NG really think about issues like this >> using common sense? >>> The oil companies are making to much in profits, says Hilary and the >>> Dimocrats. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > WHO SAYS??!!! support your claim, your drive-by missed. The ads were in the New York Times. I recycled mine, so I don't know the exact dates. Here is one article about how ExxonMobile is trying to explain their profits away: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Exxon_Mobil Jeff >>> Their answer to the rising price of gas is to do what they always do >>> to settle every problem, raise taxes. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > risk.So... when times are good OR the cost of doing business goes up, so > does the profit or disposable income... as a PERCENTAGE of GROSS HANDLE. > http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Exxon_Mobil Do you see me referencing Limbaugh on here... that's nothing but a progressive spin machine... How about pointing to fact, not freakin opinion! SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! >> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Exxon_Mobil > > Do you see me referencing Limbaugh on here... that's nothing but a > progressive spin machine... > > How about pointing to fact, not freakin opinion! Fine. Go read the ExxonMobile SEC filings and compare the numbers to the numbers in the ads. Jeff I guess we can asumme you do not own stocks, if that is what you believe mike hunt >> The oil companies are making to much in profits, says Hilary and the >> Dimocrats. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Jeff >>> First think: >>> Who determines price per barrel [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > area of 5 billion dollars, in subsidies, to the oil companies for > exploration and other issues. There was a long report in the New York Times about this. I think it was actually a 2 or 3 part series. Jeff >>> What is a "profit margin" >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> Citgo is owned by a Venezuelan state owned company... and increasingly >> used by Chavez to make political points. |
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