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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Cars / May 2006Want to choose discrete options, not packages
When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and pay only for those items I want. Say, I want sports suspension. Why should I be forced to get those 21 inch wheels with 1 inch greaser tires when all I want is heavy duty shocks and springs? Suppose I want the racing stripes; why do I have to pay for the super deluxe leather upolstery too? It makes no sense to force a customer to buy thousand dollar options to get a heavy duty battery that would add all of $20 to the car. In the old days, customers could do just that: order every option a-la-carte and just pay for those things only. My daddy did it and I expect to get the same treatment from GM, Ford, and Chrysler (GM if they're still around next year). Customers are revolting against ripoffs. We all know the companies price they basic model cheap for advertising a bargain. But, when you go to build a realistic car, every extra item you want is in a different high cost package. I, for one, rebel against this unChristian, unJewish, proMoslem attitude by the car makers. Car makers govern the assembly of cars by computer. Its easier than ever to build a car a-la-carte, so there's no excuse for them not doing it my way. Its my way or the highway, bub. > When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and > pay only for those items I want. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > to build a car a-la-carte, so there's no excuse for them not doing it my > way. Its my way or the highway, bub. Have a good trip. Dave You can order most everything in individual options. You must be another Jap shill. Don't believe? Go to the GM web site and build vehicles. You can do a lot of things individually that are also part of a larger package. Not everything, but a lot. >When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and >pay only for those items I want. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >to build a car a-la-carte, so there's no excuse for them not doing it my >way. Its my way or the highway, bub. Better yet rebuild an old car and make it just the way you want. > Better yet rebuild an old car and make it just the way you want. Better still, just buy and old junker and drive it. Then you'll say it's all the wrong options, but I only paid $700 for it. I guess that works, if you don't intend to drive too far. ;) mike hunt >> Better yet rebuild an old car and make it just the way you want. >> > Better still, just buy and old junker and drive it. Then you'll say it's > all the wrong options, but I only paid $700 for it. You guess? You sound like you don't know much about cars. Why are you posting? >I guess that works, if you don't intend to drive too far. ;) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Better still, just buy and old junker and drive it. Then you'll say it's >> all the wrong options, but I only paid $700 for it. Does that mean you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car ;) mike hunt > You guess? You sound like you don't know much about cars. Why are you > posting? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>> Better still, just buy and old junker and drive it. Then you'll say it's >>> all the wrong options, but I only paid $700 for it. > Does that mean you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car ;) > > mike hunt A $700 car does not have to be a crap car. A crap car is one that fails when you don't expect it to fail, irregardless of how much you paid for it. Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I would not if I were you ;) >> Does that mean you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car ;) >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > A crap car is one that fails when you don't expect it to fail, > irregardless of how much you paid for it. > Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I would > not if I were you ;) I have not had a $700 car in a while. The last $700 car I had was a used 1973 Fury with a 360 v8. That was 1981. I ran it till 1985. I guess $700 would equate to two or three times that amount in todays dollars. I have a car in my driveway I'm thinking of selling for $500. I wouldn't consider a 5k mile run with that one because the tranny needs a rebuild. My Father bought a 1966 2 door Buick Skylark with a v6 in 1993. He paid $150 for it. It was garaged, well taken care of, never taken out on bad weather days, and had 36,000 miles on the odometer. Owner was afraid of it because it was too old and replaced it with a Tempo (ugh!). So there you have it. A car I would drive 5k miles in with no qualms that cost less than $500 in today's money and a car that was new that I wouldn't trust for 500 feet (the Tempo with every option Ford could stuff into it). It is not the cost of the car, but the condition of that car. Cheap does not aways equate to crap. Learned that in the 1970's when buying cars from the NYC repo actions under the Whitestone Bridge. I still miss that 1968 Imperial with 40,000 miles we got for $400 with only a broken seat back. If one can buy any car in todays market for $500 it will have little change of being a vehicle in which one would want to take on a 5,000 mile trip. It were a 'good' car by definition it would be selling for more than $500 ;) mike hunt >> Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I would >> not if I were you ;) [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > I still miss that 1968 Imperial with 40,000 miles we got for $400 with > only a broken seat back. > Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I would not > if I were you ;) I own a 1984 Celebrity with a blue book of $500 and I wouldn't hesitate to take a 5000 mile trip in it. Of course, I replaced the engine with a rebuilt engine about 4 years ago, but the car is still only worth $500 to the market. Ted I guess you could, as long as you have a valid credit card. ;) mike hunt >> Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I would > not [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ted > Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I would not > if I were you ;) I did several 600 mile trips in a car that cost me $1, does that count? >> Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I would >> not >> if I were you ;) > > I did several 600 mile trips in a car that cost me $1, does that count? You beat me. I paid $15 for one of mine. (but it was a convertible). Took a couple of lengthy trips. > >> Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I would > >> not [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You beat me. I paid $15 for one of mine. (but it was a convertible). Took > a couple of lengthy trips. I took a few trips in a VW micro bus when I was a kid in the late 60's - does that count?  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net Did you make it home again? LOL mike hunt >> >> Then I guess you would attempt a 5,000 mile trip in a $700 car. I > would [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I took a few trips in a VW micro bus when I was a kid in the late 60's - > does that count? Most street rods cost more than many new cars. mike hunt > Better yet rebuild an old car and make it just the way you want. > Most street rods cost more than many new cars. Mostly because they are pro built for yuppies with too much goddamned money. Do your own work and look for inexpensive parts and you can do OK. But we aren't talking street rods, but driver cars. Like a model 'T?' mike >> Most street rods cost more than many new cars. > > Mostly because they are pro built for yuppies with too much goddamned > money. Do your own work and look for inexpensive parts and you can do > OK. But we aren't talking street rods, but driver cars. > You can order most everything in individual options. You must be > another Jap shill. Don't believe? Go to the GM web site and build > vehicles. You can do a lot of things individually that are also part > of a larger package. Not everything, but a lot. Bullcrap. I want two options on a Buick Lucerne, but each comes in a package. Try to get just the remote starter. Or just heated, but not 8 way seats. >> You can order most everything in individual options. You must be >> another Jap shill. Don't believe? Go to the GM web site and build [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >package. Try to get just the remote starter. Or just heated, but not 8 way >seats. Edwin, You've run into what I call "the tyranny of the wiring harness" :)) GM didn't want to make 2 more wiring harnesses for the seats - one of the 8-way adjuster w/o the heated seats and one with both. Since the 8-way seats is the more complex, they put the wires for the heated seats in that harness. Soooooo, you get stuck with both. Saves GM money, even if it cost you. The manufacturers could eliminate a lot of that if they went to logic-level control (called "multiplex wiring") but I think they are afraid of the complexity servicing such a system involves (look at the wiring diagrams for a Cadillac Allante if you want an example). Multiplex wiring could eliminate half the wiring in the average car if it were done correctly (and probably 50~100 lbs of weight) but without the proper training and equipment it would be damn near impossible to troubleshoot problems. Regards, Bill Bowen Sacramento, CA Every manufacture could build a base no frills car. if the wanted. The only reason they do not is because nobody would buy such a vehicle. Evan manual transmission cars sell poorly. The best selling model, in most every brand, is generally the one with the most standard equipment or the one just below it. mike hunt >>> You can order most everything in individual options. You must be >>> another Jap shill. Don't believe? Go to the GM web site and build [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Bill Bowen > Sacramento, CA "William H. Bowen" <wh_bowen@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > You've run into what I call "the tyranny of the wiring harness" :)) > GM didn't want to make 2 more wiring harnesses for the seats - one of > the 8-way adjuster w/o the heated seats and one with both. Since the > 8-way seats is the more complex, they put the wires for the heated > seats in that harness. Soooooo, you get stuck with both. The harness makes sense, but what does it cost? Adding an extra $20 for the more complex harness, even if all is not all used, is better than paying for a $300 or $500 option that I don't want. > "William H. Bowen" <wh_bowen@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > more complex harness, even if all is not all used, is better than paying for > a $300 or $500 option that I don't want. But, using your hypothetical numbers, if less than 1 in 20 people pay money for that, let's say, $400 option, then you were subsidized by everyone else, and the bottom line of the company is damaged either by absorbing the cost difference *OR* raising their price and putting themselves at a price-competitive disadvantage to appease you, Mr. One-In-Less-Than-20. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') "Bill Putney" <bptn@kinez.net> wrote in message > But, using your hypothetical numbers, if less than 1 in 20 people pay > money for that, let's say, $400 option, then you were subsidized by > everyone else, and the bottom line of the company is damaged either by > absorbing the cost difference *OR* raising their price and putting > themselves at a price-competitive disadvantage to appease you, Mr. > One-In-Less-Than-20. Not quite. The only time the more expensive harness is used, is when either option A or option B is chosen. If no option, or options C, D, or whatever is chosen, the standard harness is used. What happens is that when I choose that $390 option, it becomes $400 as a stand alone to pay for that premium harness. If I choose both A and B, I come out ahead 10 bucks. Or GM" does depending on how they price. Better than having to pay $800 for an option I don't want. You might want to take a look at the Lincoln Zephyr. Heated seats are standard and remote starter is a dealer installed $400 option. mike hunt >> You can order most everything in individual options. You must be >> another Jap shill. Don't believe? Go to the GM web site and build [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > package. Try to get just the remote starter. Or just heated, but not 8 > way seats. > You might want to take a look at the Lincoln Zephyr. Heated seats are > standard and remote starter is a dealer installed $400 option. > > mike hunt I may take a serious look at that and the Milan. You get the same major features in the Merc for about $4k less. I just spent another $846 on the Buick yesterday and I'm even less enchanted with Buick right now. That makes $3700 in the past five months. Guess I should have dumped it 5 1/2 months ago. > I may take a serious look at that and the Milan. You get the same major > features in the Merc for about $4k less. > > I just spent another $846 on the Buick yesterday and I'm even less enchanted > with Buick right now. That makes $3700 in the past five months. Guess I > should have dumped it 5 1/2 months ago. What did you have done to it Edwin? Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> I may take a serious look at that and the Milan. You get the same major >> features in the Merc for about $4k less. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What did you have done to it Edwin? Big expense was the transmission at $2600. The spark plugs ($48 plus labor, + $10 for a wire that broke in the process) is a normal wear item. I don't mind that. A front wheel bearing was shot. No, you don't replace the $10 bearing, but a $311 hub assembly that includes two casting, bearing ABS sensor, spline, all of which are still good. Front rotors that were warped in less than 50k miles and cannot be turned, and an oxygen sensor for $111. Rotors are made cheaply to save weight but do not last like older ones. After replacing the O2 sensor and plugs, fuel mileage is still the same so I see not real benefit. The air pump is making some noise when cold. That will be about $50 if it does go too. NOT done are the rear window lift (I have it propped closed with wood) and the heated seat. Instead of replacing the $15 heating element, they want $570 for a new seat bottom. Just adds up to a lot of stuff over the past couple of years. Maybe other cars are crap too, but this does not seem to be as well made as it could be and parts are now very expensive assemblies to be replaced. . I have more repairs in this than my last three cars combined, and less miles than they had. Now 113k in five years. > Big expense was the transmission at $2600. The spark plugs ($48 plus labor, > + $10 for a wire that broke in the process) is a normal wear item. I don't > mind that. A front wheel bearing was shot. No, you don't replace the $10 > bearing, but a $311 hub assembly that includes two casting, bearing ABS > sensor, spline, all of which are still good. Front rotors that were warped > in less than 50k miles and cannot be turned, and an oxygen sensor for $111. Man - I hate to say it Edwin but they gouged you on the bearing job. OEM price is under $200 (can't remember exact price because it's been a while since I bought an OEM hub) and aftermarket hovers right around $110-$120. They should not have hit you more than one hour for labor. Seems quite high on that particular repair. The tranny seems high to me given that an independent tranny specialist around here will do a complete rebuild on a tranny like yours for between $1500 and $1800 on average. But - location is everything. You're in CT right? That might account for some of the price difference. > After replacing the O2 sensor and plugs, fuel mileage is still the same so I > see not real benefit. The air pump is making some noise when cold. That > will be about $50 if it does go too. Yeah - I've found plugs to perform well up to 100,000 miles or so in an otherwise well running motor these days. The difference in performance that I've seen by changing the plugs at 100,000 has not been very significant. As much of a pain as it can be to reach those rear three plugs, I count that as a good thing. > NOT done are the rear window lift (I have it propped closed with wood) and > the heated seat. Instead of replacing the $15 heating element, they want > $570 for a new seat bottom. Both of these would really "pee" mee right off as well. Rear window lifts in particular. Enough cars have had problems with these over the years that there is just no excuse now for engineering one that does not work 100% of the time for 10 years or more. > Just adds up to a lot of stuff over the past couple of years. Maybe other > cars are crap too, but this does not seem to be as well made as it could be > and parts are now very expensive assemblies to be replaced. . I have more > repairs in this than my last three cars combined, and less miles than they > had. Now 113k in five years. I've learned to accept that front wheel bearings go fast in front wheel drive cars. It's just the way it is with almost all of them. But... the amount of flat out broken things you've described would not set well with me either. Heated seats are not rocket science. There is no excuse today for them to fail like they do and to see replacement costs like we see. By the way - what color did you paint that piece of cherry that is propping the rear window? Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > ...Rear window lifts > in particular. Enough cars have had problems with these over the years that > there is just no excuse now for engineering one that does not work 100% of > the time for 10 years or more. Ain't that the truth! Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message > Man - I hate to say it Edwin but they gouged you on the bearing job. > OEM > price is under $200 (can't remember exact price because it's been a while > since I bought an OEM hub) and aftermarket hovers right around $110-$120. I've seen aftermarket for $100 to $200. Not so easy to shop around when the car is up on the lift though. Labor was hard to say because I had other work done. Changed the rotors at the same time. > Both of these would really "pee" mee right off as well. Rear window lifts > in particular. Enough cars have had problems with these over the years > that > there is just no excuse now for engineering one that does not work 100% of > the time for 10 years or more. My Regal windows still work after 15 years. What got me was the fact that it is a rear window. It has probably been down a total of 6 times since I've had the car. If they were solid, it would not bother me because we don't have passengers often and the climate control is on most all the time. I accidently hit the button while driving and the window went part way down. Hit the button to bring it back up and it snapped the cable. > By the way - what color did you paint that piece of cherry that is > propping > the rear window? Stained it to look like pine ;) > When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and > pay only for those items I want. I think we have all shared that feeling from time to time. No matter what make or model you are considering, you may not be able to get exactly what you want from the factory, at least not at a price that pleases. I don't like, for example, some of the electronic gadgetry that many models offer. We have used Buicks for years, and in general they are pretty good, but their fascination with electrical geegaws can be troublesome. Do that include the engine control microprocessor? ;) mike hunt >> When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want >> and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > their > fascination with electrical geegaws can be troublesome. > Do that include the engine control microprocessor? ;) > > mike hunt By my definition, it would not. A geegaw is a bullshit item that is not essential to the operation of the vehicle. Like fuel injection or an automatic tranny? mike >> Do that include the engine control microprocessor? ;) >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > A geegaw is a bullshit item that is not essential to the operation of the > vehicle. > Like fuel injection or an automatic tranny? > > mike Maybe on your cars, Mike. I don't need or want a heated washer fluid system , a heated mirror, a time delay interior and exterior lighting scheme, etc... I dont need power seat belt retractors, nor an automated Tampax remover in my car. Believe it or not, I am still strong enough to adjust my own seat manually, and even whip the occasional smartass in the parking lot. The latter just takes a little longer now than it used to do. Who is taking about 'need?' Who needs a navigation system? Buyers buy what they want LOL mike hunt mike hunt >> Like fuel injection or an automatic tranny? >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > little longer > now than it used to do. > Who is taking about 'need?' Who needs a navigation system? Buyers buy > what they want LOL > > mike hunt Back to the thread, nope, they don't always buy what they want. They pick a car and pretty much have to take what is offered. Sometimes it is attraction, sometimes it is the lesser of evils. What do you actually do for GM, Mike? I have nothing to do with GM today, except own a bunch of their stock. I'm eighty years old and have been retired for a long time. My engineering degree is in metallurgy. I did work for GM, as a design engineer, when I graduated from college after WWII. After my stint there I worked as a field engineer in VWs short lived assembly plant in Pennsylvania, until it was unceremoniously shut down . I worked as a design engineer for Ford until I retired in 1986. After that I was Group Sales Manager for one of the largest mega dealership groups on the east cost. We sold just about every brand on the market. During that time I started a fleet service business, with a moneyed partner, that serviced thousands of vehicle for corporate and government fleets in six states. I had to buy out my partner in 1990, when the techs decided to join the Machinist Union, because he wanted nothing to do with a Union. Having our techs join a union turned out to be the best thing that ever happen to the business. I sold out to an investment group and retired to do what I do now an that is to try to spend all my money before I die. LOL mike hunt >> Who is taking about 'need?' Who needs a navigation system? Buyers buy >> what they want LOL [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > What do you actually do for GM, Mike? > On 5/19/2006 5:41 PM ... HLS@nospam.nix wrote: >> Like fuel injection or an automatic tranny? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > little longer > now than it used to do. Speed-sensitive radio volume level control is another one. GM goes overboard with the useless gimmicky stuff. Since most (if not all) are not options, one can't order a vehicle without those annoyances. > > On 5/19/2006 5:41 PM ... HLS@nospam.nix wrote: > >> Like fuel injection or an automatic tranny? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > overboard with the useless gimmicky stuff. Since most (if not all) are > not options, one can't order a vehicle without those annoyances. It is only useless to someone who refuses to use it. How can it be an "annoyance" if you have it turned off? Actually, it's one of those "gimmicks" that works very well. Dave > > Speed-sensitive radio volume level control is another one. GM goes > > overboard with the useless gimmicky stuff. Since most (if not all) are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Actually, it's one > of those "gimmicks" that works very well. Agreed. I like it in my car. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net Nomen Nescio wrote another bunch of mostly crap... > When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and > pay only for those items I want. BUT, my one gripe with Ford right now is that you can't get the 41G package on the base Standard Crown Vic, it has to be a LX. Rob Buy a base Mercury GM and save yourself some money, WBMA mike > Nomen Nescio wrote another bunch of mostly crap... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Rob >Nomen Nescio wrote another bunch of mostly crap... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Rob Sounds a lot like my complaint about the cable tv company. 100 channels and I watch maybe 6, but the ones I watch are in the "expanded" basic package. Just a ploy to get you to move up... -- Spike 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok; Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound audio-video... See my ride at.... Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg I believe that's an issue with some, not all car companies. It must be less expensive for them to do it this way. I put together a GM Denali and there are many, not all, options that you can order without getting all the Bells and Whistles. > When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and > pay only for those items I want. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > to build a car a-la-carte, so there's no excuse for them not doing it my > way. Its my way or the highway, bub. > I believe that's an issue with some, not all car companies. It must be less > expensive for them to do it this way. Of course it is less expensive to come out with standard models and a few 'packages'. No doubt about it. I and remember when the options were radio, heater, and white wall tires. Later, automatic trannies became availble. And then air conditioners. Who knows where it will all end?? ;>) It sure is a lot different from years ago. DVD, Entertainment Systems and now to top it all off, the new Dodge caliber has a place to keep your drinks chilled. Signature"Now Phoebe Snow direct can go from thirty-third to Buffalo. From Broadway bright the tubes run right Into the Road of Anthracite" Erie - Lackawanna >> I believe that's an issue with some, not all car companies. It must be > less [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Who knows where it will all end?? ;>) > On 5/20/2006 6:33 PM ... NJ Vike wrote: > It sure is a lot different from years ago. DVD, Entertainment Systems and > now to top it all off, the new Dodge caliber has a place to keep your drinks > chilled. Useless. A standard cooler is more practical since it's portable. > > On 5/20/2006 6:33 PM ... NJ Vike wrote: > > It sure is a lot different from years ago. DVD, Entertainment Systems and > > now to top it all off, the new Dodge caliber has a place to keep your drinks > > chilled. > > Useless. A standard cooler is more practical since it's portable. I actually think the cooler glovebox is a pretty cool idea. I would definitely use it if I had one. It's not always convenient to keep a chilled cooler in the car. I do it all the time with the cars I buy. I no longer buy imports and all of the domestic offer free standing options that can be added to packages. The problem I have is with what is standard that can not be deleted. My latest car has side air bags, something I would never order. DRLs are another problem on some brands, it costs one extra money to disable them Both of my current cars have anti-lock brakes that can not be disabled, as can the traction assist. I have to spend money to install a disabler. Both have auto up, and down, windows but only one has a single button to operate them all. I spent extra money to install a one button operator on the other. ;) mike hunt >I believe that's an issue with some, not all car companies. It must be less >expensive for them to do it this way. > > I put together a GM Denali and there are many, not all, options that you > can order without getting all the Bells and Whistles. . DRLs are > another problem on some brands, it costs one extra money to disable them DRLs equate to a auto insurance discount with some companies. Why would you want to do away with a 5 percent discount on insurance ? Because that is not the case in any state of which I an aware and according to the US Senate Transportation Committee determination DRLs can cause more accidents they may prevent. That is why they are not required in the US. mike hunt >. DRLs are >> another problem on some brands, it costs one extra money to disable them > > DRLs equate to a auto insurance discount with some companies. > Why would you want to do away with a 5 percent discount on insurance ? Sounds like another way to sell us something. Why not run lights in the day and night ;-) Signature"Now Phoebe Snow direct can go from thirty-third to Buffalo. From Broadway bright the tubes run right Into the Road of Anthracite" Erie - Lackawanna > Because that is not the case in any state of which I an aware and > according to the US Senate Transportation Committee determination DRLs can [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> DRLs equate to a auto insurance discount with some companies. >> Why would you want to do away with a 5 percent discount on insurance ? New York State with State Farm Insurance, a national company. >> Because that is not the case in any state of which I an aware and >> according to the US Senate Transportation Committee determination DRLs [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>> DRLs equate to a auto insurance discount with some companies. >>> Why would you want to do away with a 5 percent discount on insurance ? >Because that is not the case in any state of which I an aware and according >to the US Senate Transportation Committee determination DRLs can cause more >accidents they may prevent. That is why they are not required in the US. > >mike hunt Just because they aren't required doesn't mean you can't have them. My DRLs don't bother me since I'm not looking AT the front of my vehicle. Not to mention that my car also helps to keep me from being forgetful (not lazy) when I have to have my wipers on, my state requires headlights when using wipers, my car turns the headlights on when the wipers have been on for 30 seconds and then off when the wipers have been off for 10. This isn't a DRL feature, but it's another whiz-bang, golly-gee electronic gizmo that wasn't on vehicles years ago yet is a nice safety feature. >>. DRLs are >>> another problem on some brands, it costs one extra money to disable them >> >> DRLs equate to a auto insurance discount with some companies. >> Why would you want to do away with a 5 percent discount on insurance ? > When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and > pay only for those items I want. I don't know the figures but I would suspect the vast majority of new cars are bought off the lot, they are existing built cars, not ordered in advance. Why, because those are the ones that go on sale and that you can make the cheapest deals on. I also don't think the majority of new car buyers know anything about the mechanicals of the car they are buying. After all part of the draw of buying new is that if it breaks you don't have to pay to fix it or fix it yourself, you have this nice warranty that does that. So why would a new car buyer care about ordering a prone-to-break item like an automatic tampax remover when he's going to buy an extended warranty anyway, and sell the vehicle when that runs out? He isn't going to know what's in the vehicle and he is going to care less. True story - a couple weeks ago I called someone about buying a used van they were selling. I asked them over the phone "does it have ABS brakes, yes or no" the answer was no. I go look at this van that they had owned for years, sure enough yes it has ABS brakes. Now someone explain to me how can somebody own a car for years and not know if it has ABS brakes or not? Don't you think the little warning light that lights up when you start the car labeled ABS would give it away? This is the typical level of knowledge of a typical car owner, and you think they all want to special-order the options in the cars? Well maybe the cupholders. Ted > This is the typical level of knowledge of a typical car owner, and you > think > they all want to special-order the options in the cars? Well maybe the > cupholders. Have you walked into a dealership and tried to order a new car not already on the lot or on some dealers lot within 50 miles of that dealer of late? (...) > True story - a couple weeks ago I called someone about buying a used van > they were selling. I asked them over the phone "does it have ABS brakes, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Don't you think the little warning light that lights up when you start the > car labeled ABS would give it away? Most people are ignorant of how their cars work. When something is lit that is not usually lit or blinking, it gets our attention. I can't tell you which lights go on when I first turn the key. Just like most people don't care that much about what happens after they flush the toilet - as long the stuff goes down the drain without a flood, they are happy. And as long as there are no unusual lights on thier dash, they are happy, too. Jeff > Most people are ignorant of how their cars work. When something is lit that > is not usually lit or blinking, it gets our attention. I can't tell you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > they are happy. And as long as there are no unusual lights on thier dash, > they are happy, too. Yes, well it's been demonstrated that people in society have not been able to adapt to a technological lifestyle, other than being a pure consumer. People today know less about how the food that keeps them alive is created, then at any point in history I think. I don't think that state of affairs is really going to last, though. Not over the long term, over hundreds of years. Most of the ability of society to exist as a collection of ignorant consumers is due to the availability of cheap energy, and once the oil runs out, cheap energy is going to go away. At that time people will have to go back to the old way of you buy something then you keep it a long. long time, because the cost to replace what you have with something new will be astronomical. And the only way people will be able to do that is to learn to do their own maintainence. (or a good portion of it) Ted That sound like President Carters view of the future thirty some years ago . He was wrong as well. LOL mike hunt >> Most people are ignorant of how their cars work. When something is lit > that [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Ted > When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and > pay only for those items I want. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > to build a car a-la-carte, so there's no excuse for them not doing it my > way. Its my way or the highway, bub. The vast majority of people do not want to wait several weeks for the exact car they want. Most people want a car right away. Plus, many of the incentives may be gone when the car arrives. And, people usually want the same group of things. Jeff >When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want and >pay only for those items I want. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >to build a car a-la-carte, so there's no excuse for them not doing it my >way. Its my way or the highway, bub. What's your point in posting this? You and I both know it can't be done that way. You can either buy the packages they offer, not not buy at all. The other option is to buy a stripper and then get after market parts to get what you want. It may end up costing you more and not end up being what you expected. --------------- Alex Having confused a bunch of newsgroups with some carmakers corporate offices On Thu, 18 May 2006 15:10:03 -0700, Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote: > When I special order a new car, I want to choose only the items I want > and [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > to build a car a-la-carte, so there's no excuse for them not doing it my > way. Its my way or the highway, bub. SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
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