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Car Forum / GMC Cars / June 2009

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Five times ugly equals GM's automotive failures

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Jim Higgins - 04 Jun 2009 10:57 GMT
Five times ugly equals GM's automotive failures
http://tinyurl.com/p7bsu7

These creations had consumers scratching their heads and heading for
other dealerships
Dan Neil / The Los Angeles Times

The causes of General Motors Corp.'s descent into bankruptcy are
complex, but its failures are tangible enough in a rogue's gallery of
unloved and unlovely cars and trucks.

Here are five vehicles that helped push GM down the road to ruin:

• Chevrolet Corvair (1960-1969): GM's answer to the first wave of
European imports, the Corvair was a bold and stylish, rear-engine,
air-cooled car with a slightly treacherous rear suspension that could
provoke the car to spin or roll over in extreme handling. In his 1965
book, "Unsafe at Any Speed," consumer advocate Ralph Nader accused GM of
cheaping out on the Corvair chassis engineering and putting buyers at
risk. Although Nader's accusations against the car were debatable, he
made the case that GM's product managers had ruthlessly calibrated
safety by per-unit cost.

• Cadillac Cimarron (1981-1988) Perhaps the lowest point in the noble
history of Cadillac, the Cimarron was a tarted-up, schmaltzy, rebadged
Chevy Cavalier rushed to market to compete against small premium cars
from Mercedes-Benz and to help lift GM's corporate average fuel economy.
It was a disaster. The car was dead-slow and unrefined (with a
four-cylinder engine and either a three-speed automatic or a four-speed
manual transmission) and GM had the temerity to charge about double what
a comparable Cavalier cost. Tellingly, GM at first wanted to bill the
car as "Cimarron, by Cadillac," but the double-talk only infuriated
customers more.

• Pontiac Aztek (2001-2005) The punch line to whatever joke about GM you
care to tell, the Aztek began as a good idea -- a crossover model,
combining the high seating and ground clearance of a sport utility
vehicle with the drivability of a car -- that went astonishing wrong. It
was terribly, empirically ugly, with the weird doubling of hood nostrils
and headlamps that made it look as if it had been hit in the face with a
shovel. The rear of the vehicle, which had been enlarged by product
planners in a dubious attempt to make the car more versatile, was an
awkward steel and glass bustle. The Aztek has since become a cautionary
tale of design by committee.

• Saturn Ion (2003-2007) The Ion was, on balance, merely representative
of the widespread mediocrity of GM's small cars (Pontiac Grand Am, Chevy
Cavalier) in the early part of the decade, and a time when Japanese and
Korean carmakers were mounting a fresh campaign of excellence. The Ion
was intended to go after Gen Y buyers who favored the Honda Civic, but
between the tepid design, the palpable cheapness and almost
schizophrenic use of interior materials, the Ion was passionless, a
nonstarter. That it was badged a Saturn -- the brand that once meant to
represent the reinvented GM -- only underscored GM's drift.

• Hummer H2 (2003-present) The Hummer is not a bad vehicle. It is
powerful, reliable and will climb a tree, precisely as advertised. But
it was easily the most despised vehicle GM ever made and a classic
example of GM's missing the pulse of the market. By building the Hummer
H2 -- indeed, by setting up a division to support it -- GM unwittingly
reinforced its image as an environmental nightmare and pawn of Big Oil,
and that image problem certainly cost GM more than the incremental
profit on Hummer sales.

Signature

Civis Romanus Sum

Ed Pawlowski - 05 Jun 2009 01:06 GMT
"Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> Here are five vehicles that helped push GM down the road to ruin:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> made the case that GM's product managers had ruthlessly calibrated
> safety by per-unit cost.

Having owned a Corvair, I'd buy another tomorrow if they still made them.
The '62 Monza was a great handling car. Nader should spin out over a cliff.
Canuck57 - 05 Jun 2009 01:11 GMT
> "Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> The '62 Monza was a great handling car. Nader should spin out over a
> cliff.

Agreed.  I thought I would have seen the Geo and Vega and Bobcat on the
list.
Ed Pawlowski - 05 Jun 2009 02:22 GMT
"Canuck57" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message

> Agreed.  I thought I would have seen the Geo and Vega and Bobcat on the
> list.

I drove a Vega with about 20,000+ miles cross country (one way).  It went
from cream puff to oil burning heap after that trip.
<RJ> - 05 Jun 2009 04:02 GMT
>"Canuck57" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I drove a Vega with about 20,000+ miles cross country (one way).  It went
>from cream puff to oil burning heap after that trip.

Twenty thousand miles cross-country ?
Did you head East from New York City ?

BTW Ed;
I took delivery of my new KIA Spectra yesterday.
Whatta car !!
Paul - 05 Jun 2009 04:23 GMT
>> "Canuck57" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> Agreed.  I thought I would have seen the Geo and Vega and Bobcat on the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I took delivery of my new KIA Spectra yesterday.
> Whatta car !!

I bought a used 2006 Specta August 2008.  45k miles.
So far it has been a good car and nothing has gone wrong - yet.
For the price it is a great car.  The ergonomics and engineering are excellent.
It beats that crappy Corolla i rented for a week.
Ed Pawlowski - 05 Jun 2009 10:45 GMT
>>> I drove a Vega with about 20,000+ miles cross country (one way).  It
>>> went from cream puff to oil burning heap after that trip.
>>
>> Twenty thousand miles cross-country ?
>> Did you head East from New York City ?

To clarify, it has 20k when I started and I put 3400 on it in 5 days.  It
could not take the sustained highway speeds.
Mike - 05 Jun 2009 15:25 GMT
You are so full of $#it your eyes must be brown.   My one son owned a Vega
that he ran to almost 150,000 miles.  What killed it was RUST, just as it
did all the Jap vehicles at the time.

>>>> I drove a Vega with about 20,000+ miles cross country (one way).  It
>>>> went from cream puff to oil burning heap after that trip.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> To clarify, it has 20k when I started and I put 3400 on it in 5 days.  It
> could not take the sustained highway speeds.
Tom W. Butts - 22 Jun 2009 03:30 GMT
With the early Vegas you had to be careful not to overheat it.  I
forget what the issue was (aluminum head/cast iron block maybe?).  It
got fixed in later models.

>You are so full of $#it your eyes must be brown.   My one son owned a Vega
>that he ran to almost 150,000 miles.  What killed it was RUST, just as it
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> To clarify, it has 20k when I started and I put 3400 on it in 5 days.  It
>> could not take the sustained highway speeds.
Jim Higgins - 22 Jun 2009 05:21 GMT
> With the early Vegas you had to be careful not to overheat it.  I
> forget what the issue was (aluminum head/cast iron block maybe?).  It
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>> To clarify, it has 20k when I started and I put 3400 on it in 5 days.  It
>>> could not take the sustained highway speeds.

I too was dumb enough to buy a Vega. Mid-90s Cavalier had dissimilar
metals for the head and block (I think it was an iron head and aluminum
block).  Mine developed a cracked head and cracked intake manifold.
That was the last GM I ever bought. That car was the *last* GM I ever
bought. Good riddance to GM.

Signature

Civis Romanus Sum

Vic Smith - 22 Jun 2009 11:33 GMT
>> With the early Vegas you had to be careful not to overheat it.  I
>> forget what the issue was (aluminum head/cast iron block maybe?).  It
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>That was the last GM I ever bought. That car was the *last* GM I ever
>bought. Good riddance to GM.

You're repeating yourself.  Sober up.  GM-hatred is not worth getting
drunk over.
I've said over many years that I suspected most GM haters are those
who bought a Vega.
You're the first to admit to it, even if it took some loosening up.
Congratulations anyway, for your honesty.
BTW, though I never cared for the Vega, or bought one, or trusted GM
to be looking out for my interests, you weren't the dumb one in buying
it.
You weren't supposed to be the car expert. GM was.
So GM was the dumb one.  It was dumb to produce it, dumb to sell it,
then dumb not to offer refunds for those burned by it.
GM chose to betray their customers.
They're paying the piper now.

--Vic
HLS - 22 Jun 2009 12:55 GMT
> With the early Vegas you had to be careful not to overheat it.  I
> forget what the issue was (aluminum head/cast iron block maybe?).  It
> got fixed in later models.

Are you talking about the one with the aluminum-silicone block?  That
WAS a technological disaster.

Mercedes uses some similar technology now, but when there is a failure,
it is unhandy and expensive to work with.  Blocks can only be machined
and honed at one or two places in the USA, I am told.  (Wonder if it
is the Sunnen equipment that the Vega required??)

Bill for boring the Mercedes, just a couple of years ago, was about
$3500.
Snuckfoe - 22 Jun 2009 17:59 GMT
> > With the early Vegas you had to be careful not to overheat it.  I
> > forget what the issue was (aluminum head/cast iron block maybe?).  It
> > got fixed in later models.
>
> Are you talking about the one with the aluminum-silicone block?  That
> WAS a technological disaster.

There was NEVER an "aluminum-silicone block".
Silicon is elemental, silicone is a polymeric compound.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Vega#Aluminum_engine_block

> Mercedes uses some similar technology now, but when there is a failure,
> it is unhandy and expensive to work with.  Blocks can only be machined
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Bill for boring the Mercedes, just a couple of years ago, was about
> $3500.
HLS - 23 Jun 2009 03:15 GMT
>> > With the early Vegas you had to be careful not to overheat it.  I
>> > forget what the issue was (aluminum head/cast iron block maybe?).  It
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> There was NEVER an "aluminum-silicone block".
> Silicon is elemental, silicone is a polymeric compound.

Oh I know that,. dude. .I am a professional chemist.  That was a typo.
Snuckfoe - 24 Jun 2009 20:28 GMT
> >> > With the early Vegas you had to be careful not to overheat it.  I
> >> > forget what the issue was (aluminum head/cast iron block maybe?).  It
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Oh I know that,. dude. .I am a professional chemist.  That was a typo.

Really? A typo, dude?! Perhaps you're using a Dvorak
keyboard layout wherein the "period" key is adjacent to
the "e" key? Otherwise the reality is that it would much
more likely appear to be an error related to orthography
than typography, given the aforementioned, as silicon and
silicone are commonly mistaken (by dilettantes) for one
another. But it really isn't the type of "mistake" one would
assume from a "chemist" anymore than one would expect
a linguist to muddle the spelling, definition or usage of the
words "infer" and "imply", an engineer to stumble on the
distinction between energy and power, a mathematician
to confuse algebraic with transcendental functions or a
physicist to pronounce the term nuclear as "nuke'-you-lir".

;^)
Mike Marlow - 05 Jun 2009 11:15 GMT
>>"Canuck57" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Twenty thousand miles cross-country ?
> Did you head East from New York City ?

*With* about 20,000 miles, RJ - *with*.

> BTW Ed;
> I took delivery of my new KIA Spectra yesterday.
> Whatta car !!

They are nice cars indeed.  I've owned 2 Sonatas now (currently own), and
I'm nothing but pleased with them.  I suspect you'll find the Spectra to be
quite the same.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

RealCanadian - 06 Jun 2009 12:18 GMT
you have to be kidding...a f.cking KIA....not my forte..lol...... its a
cheap piece of crap that will rust out from uinder you ..... oh yea..ask the
south koreans how many North american cars they let in the country
....lol...free trade indeed...while we..the west ...save their f.cking a.s
everyday /...our presence keep the north koreans from invading...ungrateful
f.cking pigs

>>>"Canuck57" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> I'm nothing but pleased with them.  I suspect you'll find the Spectra to
> be quite the same.
<RJ> - 06 Jun 2009 13:37 GMT
Are you sure you're not talking about the Chevy AVEO ??

>you have to be kidding...a f.cking KIA....not my forte..lol...... its a
>cheap piece of crap that will rust out from uinder you ..... oh yea..ask the
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>> I'm nothing but pleased with them.  I suspect you'll find the Spectra to
>> be quite the same.
Ed Pawlowski - 06 Jun 2009 14:23 GMT
> you have to be kidding...a f.cking KIA....not my forte..lol...... its a
> cheap piece of crap that will rust out from uinder you .....

You were right 10 years ago. No more.  Take a good look at them and Hyundai
and you will be surprised.

Our local Chrysler/Jeep dealer added Kia to their stable about a year ago.
It will probably keep them (and their employees) fed while Chrysler
flounders in the dumpster.
Tom W. Butts - 22 Jun 2009 03:34 GMT
On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 05:57:07 -0400, Jim Higgins

>• Hummer H2 (2003-present) The Hummer is not a bad vehicle. It is
>powerful, reliable and will climb a tree, precisely as advertised. But
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>and that image problem certainly cost GM more than the incremental
>profit on Hummer sales.

So why was it that Toyota never got the same amount of grief for their
wimpy Hummer clone the FJ cruiser?  Equally as much of a gas hog, just
as needlessly huge too.
 
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