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Car Forum / GMC Cars / December 2005Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List
Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? An American car on Consumer Reports shitlist? Perish the thought by the biased mother f.ckers...I take everything CR says with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to automobiles. My Chevy Lumina has 186k on it. My friend's 1991 Dodge Grand Caravan has 254k on it. My other friend's 1984 Chevy Suburban has 450k on it. American cars not reliable? My a.s. FU Consumer Reports! -GV > >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -GV Ditto! In my business, I sold MANY of 2 of the 3 vehicles you mentioned. Not only were they good-profit units, they brought in friends of the satisfied purchasers, who also received fantastic service and high mileage. One older gentleman put over 1 million TOWING miles on his 454 Suburban and then sold it to a friend (who remained friends, so HE must've received good service too!). The only complaint we EVER had on the many Luminas was an ac condensation water leak common on a certain year--we learned to take those to Chev. and have the problematic drain re-designed before selling them. We had nothing against the 3rd of your examples--just not enough room for more units in our size operation. *American cars not reliable* = my a$$ also! s >> >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > for more units in our size operation. > *American cars not reliable* = my a$$ also! s Right! I got American cars running that are 18 years old, 10 years old, 12 years old, three that are nearly new, hell you couldnt sell me a damn foreign car. Consumer Reports has been sucking Honda and Toyotas hind tit for years. Consumer Reports can kiss my a55 also. Thanks to their high rating of the Honda Odyssey I paid 6 grand more than I could have gotten a Lumina van for. The Odyssey has had 3 trannys put in and numerous other problems. My fishing buddy has owned 2 Luminas with very few problems and both went over 130k before he traded, he still makes fun of my Odyssey with 70k miles on its 3rd tranny. The chevy Astro is rated much worse than average and I know several folks who have them with between 175k to 200k miles with no big bucks problems. I would not pay CR a bit of attention. Im still PO at myself for not saving the 6000 bucks on the chevy! > >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -GV Actually , I had always thought them to be biased also. Pay attention, this is important and you seem to have missed the point. When CR reports that a car has been unreliable, it's because people who own the car have said it's unreliable in the annual surveys that CR sends out to its subscribers. If they don't get enough responses to be statistically significant, they report nothing. CR does not say a car is unreliable, the car's owners say it and CR just reports it. Your argument is with the owners of the car, not CR. > >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -GV 10 people respond, 8 say their car is bad so it gets a bad rating. Brand loyal dunces never say anything bad about their Volvo, Saturn, Honda, etc. . It's all normal service items. CR is clueless, I service appliances and routinely see them recommend crap. Then low and behold 2 yr. later they downgrade the item. But I love them as the SUCKERS that read that rag and believe them buy that garbage and I make money on them fixing that overpriced garbage. > Pay attention, this is important and you seem to have missed the point. > When CR reports that a car has been unreliable, it's because people who [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > unreliable, the car's owners say it and CR just reports it. Your argument > is with the owners of the car, not CR. Their surveys say more about their subscribers than the vehicles they rate. For one thing they simply compile a 'list' from best to worst. If it were three vehicles one would be above average the other below average, among the three, even if all three are good or bad vehicles. ;) mike hunt > Pay attention, this is important and you seem to have missed the point. > When CR reports that a car has been unreliable, it's because people who [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> -GV > Their surveys say more about their subscribers than the vehicles they > rate. For one thing they simply compile a 'list' from best to worst. > If it were three vehicles one would be above average the other below > average, among the three, even if all three are good or bad vehicles. > ;) So, what's your point. Every magazine that tries to 'rank' cars does so from their perspective, and there is a better-->worse listing for great cars and for crap. That argument has nothing to do with CR. Further, they test a pretty broad cross-section, so their reviews have good points as to how some manufacturers are making their cars just a bit better than others. IF, however, you're talking about their reliability rankings, you're still wrong. CR doesn't create these lists, per se, the subscribers answer a questionaire and CR reports. J The point is statistically their ratings or meaningless to a buyer. The fact is they don't list which are great cars and which car is crap. The list them as one compared to another, in the opinion of their few thousand subscribers who bought ONE of the 18,000,000 sold annually in the US. The fact is what they are really telling you is ALL manufacture make some that are not up to snuff. Statically the 'bad' ones are equal to around 2% of all the vehicles a given manufacture sells. The odds of getting one of their 'good' ones is 98% no matter how many the manufacture sell in total. Any buyer therefore has a 98% chance of getting one of ANY manufactures good ones. Betting the ONE particular vehicle you buy will not be one of the 2%, based on someone opinion of which one will be the less likely to leave you with one of the 2%, is therefore foolish at best. mike >> Their surveys say more about their subscribers than the vehicles they >> rate. For one thing they simply compile a 'list' from best to worst. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > J > The point is statistically their ratings or meaningless to a buyer. > The fact is they don't list which are great cars and which car is are you speaking of their testing and ranking of automobiles, or the reliability rankings? J You are definitely in need of a clue or two, sir. We bought a used LS400 12 years ago, still have it. CR said it was a very reliable car and it has been exactly that. No defects at all for first 6 years of our ownership and then I had to replace a HVAC control unit because of fading display ($200 for a rebuilt I put in myself). Bought a Yukon XL new in 2000. Gets the same use level as the LS400. CR says that that model year is less reliable than most and is prone to electrical problems. After 28,000 miles it has had: failed electric fuel pump - cost me $400 to replace plus GM kicked in $400 (because while out of 3-year warranty, it has low miles), defogger tab fell off rear window and was non-repairable - cost me $420 to replace, ABS sensor failed due to corrosion causing brakes to not work at very low speeds - cost me $100 to repair, but there is a recall on this one and I should be re-imbursed, rear power window failed - cost me $80 to repair with a local dealer kicking in another $80. I'd say that has it exactly right for these two vehicles and if I were buying either used I would take their advice to heart. Thankfully, Yukons have gotten better and are now average, as I recall, in reliability while LS430's continue to be much better than average. Short answer is that CR owner surveys are very valid and do tell you, the used car buyer, which are the good and which the bad. For the new car buyer they tell you who has a history of being good and who bad and that is not a bad way to predict future performance. - GRL > The point is statistically their ratings or meaningless to a buyer. The > fact is they don't list which are great cars and which car is crap. The [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> >> J > >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > other friend's 1984 Chevy Suburban has 450k on it. American cars not > reliable? My a.s. FU Consumer Reports! Yes, and I am driving (from new) a 1979 Chev G 20 window van. The only thing that ever went wrong with her was a bad lobe on the cam, of the 350 which I replaced myself for something like $180. She sits most of the time now but all she needs is to hammer the gas in the spring and she starts and runs like a trooper. The last real trip she took was Ottawa to NY to Washington and back. And she cost me $7500 plus a few hundred to have her delivered to Europe. So the cost of ownership works out to scarcely more then $300 a year. (The first muffler lasted 18 years.) BTW We are thinking of buying a new Cobalt SS but the front seats are to hard and misshaped. I feel like I am sitting on a dome. I see that you can buy after market racing seats for $200 to a $1000. Can anyone recommend a way to improve the comfort of the existing seats?? (Yes we were looking at an Audi A3) (O: Thanks!! (Kind of sad to miss a sale over a seat but, butt comfort is important.) > BTW We are thinking of buying a new Cobalt SS but the front seats are to > hard and misshaped. I feel like I am sitting on a dome. I see that you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks!! (Kind of sad to miss a sale over a seat but, butt comfort is > important.) Absolutely, if you are not comfortable in the car then there is no point owning it. Spending big bucks for aftermarket seats in a new car to get comfortable makes little sense. Car seats are like shoes - one size does not fit all. I would buy whatever car you like and which has seats that suit you. John > > BTW We are thinking of buying a new Cobalt SS but the front seats are to > > hard and misshaped. I feel like I am sitting on a dome. I see that you [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > John I think that's good advice. No Question. It just makes me shake my head when I think that my daughter will pay $20K more to go to the A3 because she,( I and my wife) don't like the Cobalt front seats. And yes in a way I am talking apples to oranges but that's what it comes down to. The daughter wants a Chevalier sized car (because she's owned two of them) but she is looking for something a little zippier. > I think that's good advice. No Question. It just makes me shake my head when > I think that my daughter will pay $20K more to go to the A3 because she,( I > and my wife) don't like the Cobalt front seats. And yes in a way I am talking > apples to oranges but that's what it comes down to. The daughter wants a > Chevalier sized car (because she's owned two of them) but she is looking for > something a little zippier. Obviously there are lots of other choices in that size category besides the A3 and the Cobalt. One rarely finds those two vehicles as finalists for a given buyer :). John Because of my years in the business I'm often asked which vehicle to buy. Since every manufacture today is building good dependable vehicles I suggest they drive all those the meets their needs then buy the one with the price that best suits their budget. I find it strange that any person would buy any vehicle without first determining if it meets their needs and without comparing prices. I was at a LM dealer the other day and they had a 2006 V8 Chrysler 300, with 2,000 miles on the clock offered, at $31, 995. Seems the seats were not comfortable enough for the previous owner. The window sticker was in the car, showing an MSRP of over nearly $39,000 The sales manager told me they swapped him for a loaded 2006 V8 Grand Marquis LS, and a $500 gas card, that had an MSRP of $30,200. The dealer also sells Toyota and Lexus. The price of a loaded V6 Camry on their lot is more than the LS, $30,800 >> BTW We are thinking of buying a new Cobalt SS but the front seats are to >> hard and misshaped. I feel like I am sitting on a dome. I see that you [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > John > >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -GV I agree! G6 uses the same platform as the Malibu (next size up from the Cobalt) > Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? No, but the Cobalt and Pontiac G4(not sold in the US) are. I would ignore anything that Consumer Reports says because they have clearly proven that they don't know what they are talking about time and time again.  Signature_________________________________________________________________ Dennis Smith -1971 Trans Am - 455 H.O. - M21 4speed - Cameo white/blue stripe- -1973 Trans Am - 455 - TH400 auto - Buccaneer red- -1984 Trans Am - 5.0 L - TH700R4 auto - Royal blue/silver aero- _________________________________________________________________ Like when? Examples? >>Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > clearly proven that they don't know what they are talking about time and > time again. Years ago they rated the Dodge Omni as better than the Plymouth Horizon. The only difference between them was the grill. They also listed the AMC Alliance as a good buy, at one point. . ;) mike hunt > Like when? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> clearly proven that they don't know what they are talking about time and >> time again. Wrong. The Omni may have rated higher than the Horizon with their owners and it is entirely possible that for a given model year that occurred, but it would balance after a few years of survey results. No way do I believe that in a road test one would be rated better than the other. As for them rating the Reliance as a good buy based on a road test, that may (or may not - which issue?) true. I rented an Alliance once and while not powerful by any stretch it was`a remarkably comfortable small car with good handling and mileage. Drove one 350 highway miles in great comfort. Much better than American small cars of the same period in that regard. I am sure that you are not talking about a owner survey reliability result as no Renault sold into this country has ever been worth a damn as far as reliability goes. GRL > Years ago they rated the Dodge Omni as better than the Plymouth Horizon. > The only difference between them was the grill. They also listed the AMC [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>> clearly proven that they don't know what they are talking about time and >>> time again. Just like CR opinion of cars it seems, but you are free to believe whatever you wish, I guess. LOL mike hunt > Wrong. The Omni may have rated higher than the Horizon with their owners > and it is entirely possible that for a given model year that occurred, but [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >>>> and >>>> time again. > Like when? > > Examples? When the new Grand Prix came out in 2003 (I think) they went ahead and panned it in their "review" (I think it was in their New Car Buyer's Guide for that year), which they came out and said in their article was based on last years model. The GP had been redesigned, and yet they bash it and admit that they hadn't had an opportunity to drive the new model. Now if you don't like a car after you've driven it, that's one thing but when you are a supposedly unbiased magazine offering consumer advice and you bash a car that's just undergone a major redesign (a car that by your own admission you've not set foot in, let alone taken for a test drive) because you didn't like the previous model ... that tells me you came into it with a bias from the get go. >Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars? The Chevrolet Cobalt shares the GM delta platform with the Saturn Ion. The Pontiac G6 shares the GM epsilon platform with the Chevrolet Malibu, Chevrolet Malibu MAXX, and Saab 9-3. 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