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Car Forum / GMC Cars / December 2005Wholesale price
How can I estimate or determine the wholesale price of a GM car ? We are looking at a $25,500 Saturn Relay. A friend, who works for GM, offered us a "wholesale price certificate" since he knows that our older car needs tranny work. Is there a rough estimate of wholesale relative to MSRP ? e.g. would the wholesale be 75% of MSRP or 80% ? We are at a decision point whether we should put $2,000 to rebuild the tranny on a 96 Taurus or get a new GM car at wholesale. The Ford is otherwise a decent car. Roy of Northern Virginia > How can I estimate or determine the wholesale price of a GM car ? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tranny on a 96 Taurus or get a new GM car at wholesale. The Ford is > otherwise a decent car. I don't know about "wholesale price certificates" - never heard of one. You can however, go a lot of places on the web and find average loan values, trade in, dealer price. You can also do price comparison searches and see what cars equipped in a similar manner are selling for in your area. Though that may not address your specific question, it will certainly give you a lot of buying information. As to your Taurus... I'd say it all depends on the mileage the Taurus has on it. A '96 by most standards is probably too old to put $2K into, in my opinion. The car has too little book value, will likely need too many future repairs, and is just not worth putting that kind of money into. If it has average mileage for that year (~90,000), then I would not even consider that kind of expense on the car. For what it's worth - and this depends a lot upon where you live, but in the upstate NY area $2K is certainly on the high side for a complete tranny overhaul. Realistic numbers around here can commonly be found in the $1200-1500 range, with warranty. Those are prices for solid, reputable tranny specialists, not hack chain shops. I guess my overall response would be that if you can get a new car at wholesale prices, then it's a no-brainer to spend that money as opposed to pouring big bucks into fixing up a '96. Post a follow up message once you finally figure out what this "wholesale price certificate" stuff is all about, and what it really represents to your pocketbook.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net Search nadaguides.com to find the most accurate prices at which vehicles are currently selling, WBMA mike hunt >> How can I estimate or determine the wholesale price of a GM car ? >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > finally figure out what this "wholesale price certificate" stuff is all > about, and what it really represents to your pocketbook. You got to be kidding, don't you know about the dex-coolant problem GM has had with their dex-coolant leaking into the engine oil... gaskets are eaten right through with the coolant.. why would even think of another gm product. >Search nadaguides.com to find the most accurate prices at which vehicles >are currently selling, WBMA [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> finally figure out what this "wholesale price certificate" stuff is all >> about, and what it really represents to your pocketbook. Perhaps phrasing it "wholesale price certificate" was incorrect. But it could be a coupon or something. I can negotiate a trade first he said before using the coupon/certificate/whatever. I guess as a GM employee he gets a certain number per year. I will post more when I learn more What I am hoping to learn upfront is what is "wholesale"? Anyway, the 96 Taurus has 97K miles and has been fairly trouble free. At 60K it overheated briefly because the idler pulley failed and the belt came off. I chose to get off of a busy road since I was 3/4 mile from home and had my 2 y.o. son in the car. The resevoir was replaced and no other apparent damage. A few small problems since then like a camshaft timing gear and a fan or something for the fuel intake. We live near DC in Northern VA. Everything is more costly here. Since it would be hard to take on a car payment now, the wholesale thing is intriguing. I was hoping for another 1.5 years, When my youngest goes to Kindergarten and I do not have the $790/mo childcare bill. If the $26K Saturn Relay cost me $21K I would be crazy not to go with it. > > How can I estimate or determine the wholesale price of a GM car ? > > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > finally figure out what this "wholesale price certificate" stuff is all > about, and what it really represents to your pocketbook. > Since it would be hard to take on a car payment now, the wholesale > thing is intriguing. I was hoping for another 1.5 years, When my > youngest goes to Kindergarten and I do not have the $790/mo childcare > bill. If the $26K Saturn Relay cost me $21K I would be crazy not to go > with it. Why is your choice for a car only between 2 polar oppossites -- A. keeping the old beater and dumping $2000 into its junk tranny and who knows, a year later the tranny might go bad again (Taurus trannies are rubbish) or B. dropping 21K or so on a brand new minivan? A happy medium would be to buy a late model used car or van with low, low mileage and a proven history of all maintenance work being done to it. (either receipts in the glovebox or computer records at the dealer, GM for example keeps records of all repairs/maintenance done to the car at any GM dealer). You could get an extended warranty on it also to protect your investment -- either aftermarket or factory if possible. Either aren't too expensive. I wouldn't recommend the previous generation GM minivans with the 3.4 V6. Perhaps stick to a Chrysler T&C or Dodge Caravan or Ford Winstar/Freestar. I just checked on NADA, an '02 Dodge Voyager minivan with only 40K miles retails for $9200. Making your payment less than half what it would be on that Saturn Relay. > > Since it would be hard to take on a car payment now, the wholesale > > thing is intriguing. I was hoping for another 1.5 years, When my [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > '02 Dodge Voyager minivan with only 40K miles retails for $9200. Making > your payment less than half what it would be on that Saturn Relay. Absolutely. Buying a vehicle a couple of years old with very low mileage is a good way to avoid the big initial depreciation and still end up with a good ride. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > > A happy medium would be to buy a late model used car or van with low, > > low mileage and a proven history of all maintenance work being done to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > '02 Dodge Voyager minivan with only 40K miles retails for $9200. Making > > your payment less than half what it would be on that Saturn Relay. Good point. However, I just calculated some values. Assuming a lifespan of 100,000 miles and that the Saturn new cost me $22,000 pre tax and using costs from the CarMax website I found that the Saturn would cost less per mile than the used car. e.g. #1 an '02 Caravan with 41K mi for $11,000 would have 50K miles left at the same cost as a new Saturn at $22,000 #2 an '05 Caravan with 31K miles for $14,000 would have 63,636 miles left at the same cost. > Absolutely. Buying a vehicle a couple of years old with very low mileage is > a good way to avoid the big initial depreciation and still end up with a > good ride. > > > A happy medium would be to buy a late model used car or van with low, > > > low mileage and a proven history of all maintenance work being done to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > a good way to avoid the big initial depreciation and still end up with a > > good ride. If you get it cheap enough its worth it, go for it, personally I think the relay/uplander/SV6 is fugly, but its a minivan, so you can't really make them pretty. Note: the 3.9L engine makes it one fast van. One is better off buying new rather than used. The only people that buy used are those that can not afford to buy new. When ever somebody wins the lottery or comes into extra money the first thing they buy is a new vehicle Why would anyone want to buy something that the original owner no longer wanted? The average new vehicle buyer in the US replace their new vehicle; with another new vehicle in three or four years with 30K to 45K on the clock There must have been some particular reason they got ride of a vehicle that was only a year old ;) mike hunt >> > Absolutely. Buying a vehicle a couple of years old with very low > mileage [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > relay/uplander/SV6 is fugly, but its a minivan, so you can't really make > them pretty. Note: the 3.9L engine makes it one fast van. > One is better off buying new rather than used. The only people that buy > used are those that can not afford to buy new. Most smart people will buy a one year old car. They figure let the folks that bought it new eat the 5K+ depreciation Roy We know they are called used car buyers. Personally I love used car buyers, if not for them it would cost a lot more to buy new cars. ;) mike hunt >> One is better off buying new rather than used. The only people that buy >> used are those that can not afford to buy new. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Roy > Good point. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > #2 an '05 Caravan with 31K miles for $14,000 would have 63,636 miles left at > the same cost. The only comment I would have on your exercise above Roy, is that I don't buy a car with 100,000 mile expectancy. I go into it with an expectation of 200,000-250,000 and I consistently realize that expectation unless the car gets wrecked before it hits that point. Stretch your mileage expectation out a bit and see what your numbers show. I'm not trying to steer you one way or another, but I did want to point out that you certain can expect more than 100,000 miles out of a car today. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > The only comment I would have on your exercise above Roy, is that I don't > buy a car with 100,000 mile expectancy. I go into it with an expectation of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > way or another, but I did want to point out that you certain can expect more > than 100,000 miles out of a car today. > -Mike- > mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net ¨ Sometimes used cars are a terrific buy. Other times you may just be buying someone else's headache or abused auto. The way some people on these newsgroups brag about extended oil change schedules and inadvisability of servicing an auto transmission, I would certainly hate to buy anything used from such an owner. When I lived in Norway, we needed to keep a record book with the car, documenting service records, problems, etc. These were kept updated by the mechanic used, or the individual could certify service work under some conditions. The law didnt require this. The next buyer would not pay a good price for a car UNLESS that record book was with the car and current. And it wasn't something that you 'created'. >> The only comment I would have on your exercise above Roy, is that I >> don't buy a car with 100,000 mile expectancy. I go into it with an [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > something > that you 'created'. I keep up all the receipts for EVERY service/repair my cars get. I keep them in a ziploc bag in the glovebox. It helps resale value to show proof of not skipping oil changes or tranny services. I don't know why more people don't do this. > The only comment I would have on your exercise above Roy, is that I > don't buy a car with 100,000 mile expectancy. I go into it with an [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to point out that you certain can expect more than 100,000 miles out > of a car today. My father bought a '92 Dodge Caravan Cargo van at a junkyard for $300 (it was filthy and had a bad battery). It had 350,000 miles on the V6 Chrysler engine (not the crappy Mitsubishi version) because it had been used by a delivery company there in Arizona where he lives (long stretches of highway). It now has 410,000 miles on it and was starting to run badly, so he got a $250 140K mile engine from the junkyard and dropped in it. My brother had an '85 Toyota pickup with the 22r engine that used to be a delivery vehicle. He bought it with 230K miles in the early '90's for $1000 and it had 350K miles when he finally sold it in the late 90's and it still ran decent! Just burnt a tiny bit of oil at the end. If you want a car to last, just buy one with a good motor design and change the oil regularly. Alright, the "wholesale" thing is the employee price that my friend would pay. He just used an insider term. It is about 20% off and additional incentives will apply. Anyway, I will look to see what other dealer/factory incentives are out there to see my best route. Options: 1. Keep as is and hope for the best. 2. Spend $2K if mechanic friend says the remaining major components look fine for another 20,000 miles. 3. Buy a lease return from a specific auction. Family friend buys there to export. 4. Buy used at CarMax or equivalent. 5. Buy a GM at wholesale with incentives. > > How can I estimate or determine the wholesale price of a GM car ? > > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > finally figure out what this "wholesale price certificate" stuff is all > about, and what it really represents to your pocketbook. > Alright, the "wholesale" thing is the employee price that my friend would > pay. He just used an insider term. It is about 20% off and additional [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 4. Buy used at CarMax or equivalent. > 5. Buy a GM at wholesale with incentives. Now you're thinking. Don't just buy a pig in a poke. Program cars (lease return) can be really good and deeply discounted. Dealerships often have them available, and they may have good warranties remaining. You should have grasped the fact that many of us GM owners are not too happy with GM of late, having been stung by serious engine problems, transmission issues (on the older metric units), etc. GM isn't what it used to be, and certainly isnt what it ought to be. As far as the Taurus, there are apparently some years that they are pretty good. But I have been led to believe that some series were troublesome junk too, not worth a tranny overhaul. In the longer term, you need to decide what you expect from a vehicle and what you are able and willing to pay. If you want reliability, economy, and a good ride, then you need to research it a bit. If you must have a 300 HP SUV, then God help you;>) A car is a big expense for most people. It is worth doing some serious study before making that commitment. You are correct, the vehicles GM has on the market today are far better build and much more reliable than what they sold ten or even five years ago. Who would anybody judge the cars of today, from any manufacture, with what was available years ago? mike hunt . GM isn't what it used to be, and > certainly isnt what > it ought to be. > You are correct, the vehicles GM has on the market today are far better > build and much more reliable than what they sold ten or even five years ago. > Who would anybody judge the cars of today, from any manufacture, with what > was available years ago? There was a time when I bought with my heart, rather than with my intellect. Of course, if you are young and have a good job and no family to support, you can take some risks to grease your ego. (And I enjoyed most of them, too!) Now, I have retired and have a fixed income. I can buy pretty much what I want, but I don't want a car that fall apart on me, no new Jaguars in my future, nor Vipers, nor Corvettes etc. One of my big concerns, with any car, is the situation with fuel cost and availability, that - I predict - might get to be very serious in the next few years. We have already tasted $3 gas, and it was not to my liking. To me, it is important that if I decide to drive from Texas to California, that I have a high likelihood of getting there without a mechanical hiccup, that if I do have the odd hiccup it can be fixed be me or any competent shop using parts that can be obtained rather quickly, and that I don't have to pay $300 in gas on each leg of the trip. Younger dudes, who still have the world laid out like an oyster, can buy the ego bolstering cars. Not to worry any decent size car one buys today, from any manufacture, can easily last to 300,000 miles if given the proper maintenance and will easily get between 25 and 30 MPG. If you decide to indulge yourself the Jaguars, Vipers and Corvettes will last even longer than you probable will but you will need to spend a few dollar more on fuel. Even the 500 HP 230 MPH Ford GT had an EPA rating of 15/23 LOL mike hunt mike hunt >> You are correct, the vehicles GM has on the market today are far better >> build and much more reliable than what they sold ten or even five years [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Younger dudes, who still have the world laid out like an oyster, > can buy the ego bolstering cars. > Not to worry any decent size car one buys today, from any manufacture, can > easily last to 300,000 miles if given the proper maintenance and will easily > get between 25 and 30 MPG. If you decide to indulge yourself the Jaguars, > Vipers and Corvettes will last even longer than you probable will but you > will need to spend a few dollar more on fuel. Even the 500 HP 230 MPH Ford > GT had an EPA rating of 15/23 LOL When I bought a new Cobrajet Mustang in 1968, that sucker didnt get that kind of gas mileate. I got about 6-8, realistically. Well uh, Mechanic said that the car is in fine shape at 97K miles except for the known issues; tranny and leaking AC. It took two recharges last summer. I will have him do a pressure check to see if he can find the leak. Then I will evaluate keeping the car. I suspect that the AC leaks at a hose near where the radiator was replaced 3 years ago. It was replaced in February and in April the AC needed a charge. Another winkle, a new Toyota Sienna is about the same price as a Saturn minivan. Really made me think again. IMHO GM is huting because 20 -25 years ago, when my age group was buying their first cars GM, Ford etc made some real junk. Ugly and poorly assembled. I believe that the build quality is good but they have not hit the mark for me. I bought an Acura Integra in 91 and there was no GM car that remotely appealled to me. The closest American option was a Ford Probe. Almost bought one but the warranty excluded pulling a trailer, like my Hobie Cat. > > Alright, the "wholesale" thing is the employee price that my friend would > > pay. He just used an insider term. It is about 20% off and additional [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > study > before making that commitment. > How can I estimate or determine the wholesale price of a GM car ? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Roy > of Northern Virginia 'Wholesale price' doesn't mean much of anything...Dealerships here used to have 'invoice price' sales. But don't believe that those invoice prices were the same as the dealership paid to the manufacturer. The dealerships prepared those invoices themselves. Evaluate the coupon,sure, but dont be taken in by it. If you want to buy a new car, you need to go to the dealerships, test drive the vehicle, find what you want, and then look for prices. There are new cars out there a close to half the price of that Saturn. Is price really a factor for you? Some of the Korean cars offer better warranties and reasonably good quality than GM even dreamed of at their guiltiest. |
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