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Car Forum / GMC Cars / January 2006

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Automatic Shutoff

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rsholstine7984@yahoo.com - 06 Jan 2006 14:45 GMT
I have a 1996 Buick Regal Gran Sport.  For the past month my car has
automatically turned off while I have been driving it.  When this
occurs my headlights, radio and dashboard lights stay on but I lose
power to my power brakes and power steering.  Once I get the car to the
side of the road I am able to start it back up.  This has occurred 5
times and out of these five incidents, twice the car has started right
back up.  The other three times I took off the wire to the number 6
spark plug and put it back on.  Once I did this, it would start back up
again.

This occurs at various points of driving (i.e. driving at 70 on the
freeway, driving on side streets, or being parked).  There have been
varying amounts of gas in the gas tank and there has not been a common
time that this has occurred.

I have put the problem up on a couple of forums and the suggestions
that I have gotten are to check the crank position sensor, the ignition
module or possibly the fuel pump.  I have no idea if any of these are
correct but I would like to see if I can fix this before I pay an
outrageous amount to do so.
Mike Marlow - 07 Jan 2006 13:23 GMT
> I have a 1996 Buick Regal Gran Sport.  For the past month my car has
> automatically turned off while I have been driving it.  When this
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> correct but I would like to see if I can fix this before I pay an
> outrageous amount to do so.

The first two places I would look are at the fuel filter and the fuel pump.
The filter will only cost a few bucks, so I'd go there first.  The fuel pump
will go between a hundred and a couple hundred.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

HLS@nospam.nix - 07 Jan 2006 13:37 GMT
> > I have a 1996 Buick Regal Gran Sport.  For the past month my car has
> > automatically turned off while I have been driving it.  When this
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > spark plug and put it back on.  Once I did this, it would start back up
> > again.

I used to suffer EXACTLY the same symptoms on an 89 Regal.  Was dangerous,
because of loss of braking, etc.

The dammittohell dealership (it was in warranty) diddled with me for a
couple
of months, but claimed they could never make it happen while they had it.  I
offered to ride with one of their mechanics and show him what it was doing,
but they always avoided that.

Finally, I contacted Buick with the story, and the fear that my family and I
could be killed.  They knew immediately what it was, and said there was a
TSB
on it.

There had been a series of bad electronic components in the ECM's which
caused this to happen.

I would have thought your model was new enough to have avoided a bad run
of ECM's but the symptoms are exactly the same.
SgtSilicon - 07 Jan 2006 15:05 GMT
If it just plain shuts off without warning, I wouldn't suspect
pump/filter.  Pump/filter problems I would think would have a little
bit of warning via poor performance or even stuttering before it shuts
off.  I would say computer is shutting it down.  Not necessarily any
bad computer.  Very well could be a crank position sensor or some
other bad improperly working sensor.  I'm not a mechanic though, so I
could be way off.

>> I have a 1996 Buick Regal Gran Sport.  For the past month my car has
>> automatically turned off while I have been driving it.  When this
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>The filter will only cost a few bucks, so I'd go there first.  The fuel pump
>will go between a hundred and a couple hundred.
Mike Marlow - 08 Jan 2006 03:07 GMT
> If it just plain shuts off without warning, I wouldn't suspect
> pump/filter.  Pump/filter problems I would think would have a little
> bit of warning via poor performance or even stuttering before it shuts
> off.

Nope - not always, or even most times.  For most drivers - who pay
absolutely no attentions to their vehicle until it stops running, they
wouldn't even notice if it ran a little rough for a while.  But
notwithstanding the unawareness of so many drivers, a fuel pump or filter
can give no real notice and result in symptoms as described.  In fact the
classic "notice" of a dirty fuel filter is that the car will run, stop, run
stop - after it's allowed to sit a while during the stops.

> I would say computer is shutting it down.  Not necessarily any
> bad computer.  Very well could be a crank position sensor or some
> other bad improperly working sensor.  I'm not a mechanic though, so I
> could be way off.

Or you could be right on.  We all take educated stabs at this stuff
sometimes - it's the nature of troubleshooting over a DSL connection instead
of over the fender of the car.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

SgtSilicon - 08 Jan 2006 21:15 GMT
I'm not saying I'm challenging what you say but... it would seem that
a pump or filter problem would result in reduced fuel delivery before
it would result in no fuel delivery.

>> If it just plain shuts off without warning, I wouldn't suspect
>> pump/filter.  Pump/filter problems I would think would have a little
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>sometimes - it's the nature of troubleshooting over a DSL connection instead
>of over the fender of the car.
gosinn@gmail.com - 08 Jan 2006 10:49 GMT
I had a car once that was always stopping here and the
The garage , more than one over the period of three years, tried to
change this and that
Finally I myself discovered what was wrong because when I came out and
opened the hood and discoverd that one of the pipes from the fuel pump
was leaking
It then sometimes got empty and sucked in air instead of fuel
Replaced that pipe and had no more problems
It used a lot less fuel also after the replacement
The problem had been it was not leaking always and noone had noticed it
in the garages
I took the leaky pipe to the GM dealer who had been involved and they
were pretty embarrased
SgtSilicon - 10 Jan 2006 03:48 GMT
That sounds totally logical.  But it doesn't explain how a clogging
filter or a failing pump makes the car run seemingly normal or stops
it dead with no in between.

>I had a car once that was always stopping here and the
>The garage , more than one over the period of three years, tried to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>I took the leaky pipe to the GM dealer who had been involved and they
>were pretty embarrased
gosinn@gmail.com - 10 Jan 2006 12:03 GMT
When the pipes ar erotten and sometimes leak and sometimes do not
depending on various factors you can sometimes have flow of fuel and
sometimes not

It could depend on the heat, the flow of fuel and many other factors so
sometimes the car seemed normal and at others it just choked and went
dead
Mike Marlow - 10 Jan 2006 13:17 GMT
> That sounds totally logical.  But it doesn't explain how a clogging
> filter or a failing pump makes the car run seemingly normal or stops
> it dead with no in between.

The way that a fuel filter will show itself is that it will die on the road.
Depending upon how much it's clogged up, it will either pass enough fuel to
immediately start the car, or it will require a short time for fuel to seep
through the clog.  It is easy for a filter that is in the early stages of
being clogged to pass enough fuel to run under low-load demands but not
under moderate or high load.  What the OP posted as a symptom would in fact
be consistent with the warnings that you are looking for.  Further down the
road it's possible the car won't even start.

Dirty fuel filters very often result in other performance issues as well.
Sometimes there's some misfire, some bucking, lag, etc.  They can be quite
intermittent and a lot of drivers just don't notice it.  The symptoms creap
up and it's easy for a lot of drivers not to notice them since they don't
just happen all at once - until it hits the stage of not passing enough fuel
for the car to run.

A classic sign of a dirty fuel filter - whether it seems logical or not, is
a car that will run, stall, run, stall.  Certainly it's not the only cause
of this type of problem, but it's one that merits a look early on.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

SgtSilicon - 07 Jan 2006 15:00 GMT
At what point do you start to investigate the suggestions you already
have gotten?  If you are not skilled enough to follow-up on them, then
you should be taking your car into a competent professional.  No shame
in that.  Pay the money.  It's part of owning and operating a car.  If
you are able to check them out, then what are you waiting for!  Check
them out, bring back your findings and you will likely get more
information based on it.

>I have a 1996 Buick Regal Gran Sport.  For the past month my car has
>automatically turned off while I have been driving it.  When this
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>correct but I would like to see if I can fix this before I pay an
>outrageous amount to do so.
NickySantoro - 10 Jan 2006 19:18 GMT
>I have a 1996 Buick Regal Gran Sport.  For the past month my car has
>automatically turned off while I have been driving it.  When this
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>correct but I would like to see if I can fix this before I pay an
>outrageous amount to do so.

Sometimes ignition modules become heat sensitive and will behave like
this. You should have a stored code. You might wish to get it scanned.
rsholstine7984@yahoo.com - 13 Jan 2006 17:31 GMT
I replaced my fuel filter but this has not solved the problem.  I have
checked my spark plugs and they are all good and the gaps are of the
appropriate size.  I am going to replace the ignition coil module and
the PCM this weekend to see if that will make a difference.  Thanks
everyone.
gosinn@gmail.com - 13 Jan 2006 22:12 GMT
Have you checked all pipes and hoses the fuel must travel?
It should not be able to get any air in or leak
Olaf - 17 Jan 2006 03:00 GMT
>I have a 1996 Buick Regal Gran Sport.  For the past month my car has
> automatically turned off while I have been driving it.  When this
> occurs my headlights, radio and dashboard lights stay on but I lose
> power to my power brakes and power steering.

I read through the responses and I didn't see anything that addressed this
issue. The fact that you lose power brakes is concerning to me because you
should have enough vacuum in the brake booster to provide for a couple (or
more) of complete stops from expressway speeds. Unless you are pumping your
brakes to stop once your engine dies you should not be losing power brakes.
The fact that you do leads me to believe you have a vacuum leak in the brake
booster or in one of many check valves that should be keeping the vacuum
level up while you perform your emergency stop.

A vacuum leak won't make your car die on the freeway, but it's something to
think about once you get the problem fixed.

Of course, if you have a hydraulic brake booster none of my concern is
warranted.

> Once I get the car to the
> side of the road I am able to start it back up.  This has occurred 5
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> correct but I would like to see if I can fix this before I pay an
> outrageous amount to do so.
 
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