Car Forum / GMC Cars / January 2006
Want proof that GM is going under?
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Andy C.(never #) - 11 Jan 2006 17:42 GMT http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=aol
When I saw this on the tube, I kept thinking that the news guy had it wrong. That they were talking about the camaro but showing a mustang. Nope. Just goes to show how bad the brain drain at GM has gotten. Do they really think no one is going to notice such a blatant copy? Sorry, dude. If I wanted something that looked like that, I'd be at the Ford dealership.
Later,
Andy C.(never #)
Cool Jet - 11 Jan 2006 19:10 GMT > http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=aol > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Andy C.(never #) Where do these new News Group members come from? Funny how these trolls appear out of nowhere and then disappear, never to be heard from again!
First of all, Andy C.(never #) says nothing in his message to rationalize the subject he used, i.e. "Want proof that GM is going under?". That is an obvious indicator that Andy C.(never #) is just another troll.
Secondly, he must not have read the review at the link he posted, or he would have seen that the author commented: "The 2006 concept was particularly inspired by the 1969 version of the Camaro".
I guess that what Andy C.(never #) was trying to say is that the retro Mustang has actually been copied from the style of the 1969 Camaro! But we all know that's not true because the new Mustang is a great retro version of past Mustangs.
This all seems to add up to either Andy C.(never #) being a troll OR Andy C.(never #) has poor eyesight! *LOL*
Sharon K.Cooke - 11 Jan 2006 19:28 GMT > > http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=aol > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > This all seems to add up to either Andy C.(never #) being a troll OR > Andy C.(never #) has poor eyesight! *LOL* You think the proposed Camaro looks like a Mustang? I'll bet someone at Ford wishes the new Mustang body looked that good.
Andy C.(never #) - 11 Jan 2006 19:33 GMT >SNIP< > > You think the proposed Camaro looks like a Mustang? I'll bet someone at Ford > wishes the new Mustang body looked that good. If you want to look at something that looks new and looks like it is based on the original, check out the Dodge Challenger concept. I'd pay a dollar for that.
Later,
Andy C.(never #)
Cool Jet - 12 Jan 2006 04:25 GMT > >snip > > Secondly, he must not have read the review at the link he posted, or he [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You think the proposed Camaro looks like a Mustang? I'll bet someone at Ford > wishes the new Mustang body looked that good. ??? Not me Sharon! It was Andy C.(never #) who said that. I think you may have responded to the wrong post. My post disagreed with Andy C.(never #).
Ript - 15 Jan 2006 16:05 GMT >> > http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_conce >> > pt/?eref=aol [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You think the proposed Camaro looks like a Mustang? I'll bet someone > at Ford wishes the new Mustang body looked that good. GM copied the mustang back in the 60's, so its the same old tricks.
 Signature 1984 RZ350
Andy C.(never #) - 15 Jan 2006 20:01 GMT >SNIP< > > GM copied the mustang back in the 60's, so its the same old tricks. > > -- > 1984 RZ350 Right, they copied the body style. Long hood, short back end. Same way MoPar did. But at least GM put their own interpretation on it. The Challenger was much more of a blatant copy of the Camaro than the Camaro was of the Mustang. Still you're right. Car makers don't like taking chances.
Later,
Andy C.(never #)
Andy C.(never #) - 11 Jan 2006 19:37 GMT Nice try, drool pet. I read the article. I owned a '69 comaro. I can see the differnce. Now, troll this.
Later,
Andy C.(never #)
RSCamaro - 12 Jan 2006 03:35 GMT >Nice try, drool pet. I read the article. I owned a '69 comaro. I can >see the differnce. Now, troll this. > >Later, > >Andy C.(never #) Funny that you can't spell the model name correctly though.
...Ron -- 68'RS Camaro 88'Formula 00'GT Mustang
Cool Jet - 12 Jan 2006 04:32 GMT > Nice try, drool pet. I read the article. I owned a '69 comaro. I can > see the differnce. Now, troll this. What a dumb a.s! You may well have owned "a '69 comaro" but I find it difficult to believe that you owned a '69 Camaro because you can't even spell C-A-M-A-R-O. LMAO!!! I'm happy to hear that you can "see the differnce". But can you see the difference? *LOL* Now get to bed before mommy spanks you!
Andy C.(never #) - 12 Jan 2006 13:24 GMT > What a dumb a.s! You may well have owned "a '69 comaro" but I find it > difficult to believe that you owned a '69 Camaro because you can't even > spell C-A-M-A-R-O. LMAO!!! I'm happy to hear that you can "see the > differnce". But can you see the difference? *LOL* Now get to bed before > mommy spanks you! Ok, on cars you don't know sh.t. But of dumb a.ses, I bet you are THE expert.
You also seem to be obsessed with "Trolls". Do you think everyone is a troll?
Sorry for the typo. But since we all knew what make and model of car we were talking about, why make such a big deal out of it? Sorry, rhetorical question. I know why. 'Cause you're the self appointed moderator of this ng and so you think you can make fun of anyone who has an oppinion. Make fun of this one: My opinion of you is that you are a pompous little dick.
Now more later, I'd rather talk to adults.
Andy C.(never #)
Cool Jet - 12 Jan 2006 19:35 GMT > snip gibberish > Now more later, I'd rather talk to adults. > > Andy C.(never #) You'll be talking to a few more senior adults from your employer if you keep it up! Heh! Heh!
By the way, you never did give us your "proof that GM is going under".
Andy C.(never #) - 12 Jan 2006 19:51 GMT > You'll be talking to a few more senior adults from your employer if you > keep it up! Heh! Heh! At least I have a job. You're not like most Canadians I've met. They're nice, polite people, for the most part. You on the other hand...
Later,
Andy C.(never #)
Cool Jet - 12 Jan 2006 20:22 GMT > At least I have a job. You're not like most Canadians I've met. They're > nice, polite people, for the most part. You on the other hand... Andy, pulling the nationality card is tawdry and akin to pulling the race card in a non-racial issue! That's not worthy of a response. You are a fine one to be saying I'm not a "nice, polite" person! Here's a reminder of your recent post:
> Ok, on cars you don't know sh.t. But of dumb a.ses, I bet you are THE > expert. > Make fun of this one: My opinion of you > is that you are a pompous little dick. Andy, is that your idea of being a "nice, polite" person? Practise what you preach my friend.
gosinn@gmail.com - 15 Jan 2006 20:22 GMT "The Malibu Maxx seems to have fallen flat, much less the original Malibu. People on the inside swear it has European handling, good power, decent fuel economy...but there isn't much buzz among the non-GM employees. The Silverado sells well, but they pretty much seem to be a step behind Ford in almost every category. The Cobalt should replace the Cavalier whose name they ruined...but it doesn't seem to be garnering much excitement at large.
GM is just the best example of the problems the Big3 all face: an inability to understand what people want, an inability to make a completely reliable car line, an apparent inability to look beyond immediate profits...
I think the internet has hurt the Big3, too, because they can no longer depend on someone walking on the lot and being able to convince him to buy that day. Rather, consumers these days research, try things out, and aren't so vulnerable to the hard sell these days. And the Big3 just don't make a good enough product any more.
A quote from the owner of one of the dealers, Gilmour owner Allan Gilmour - "There are no sales. We have done reasonably well in used cars, but there are literally no sales."
University of Maryland business professor Peter Morici even predicts GM is on a path to bankruptcy within five years. Banc of America auto analyst Ronald Tadross has said GM should consider bankruptcy protection. Bob Hoffman, another critic has posted an interesting entry on why GM should consider bankruptcy protection. He says GM should enter bankruptcy, reorganize and exit financially stronger, with better management."
Spam Hater - 16 Jan 2006 21:56 GMT > "The Malibu Maxx seems to have fallen flat, much less the original > Malibu. People on the inside swear it has European handling, good > power, decent fuel economy...but there isn't much buzz among the non-GM > employees. I agree it does sound interesting and I wanted to have a look at it and try it out, but I didn't see one at our local dealerships. The dealerships seemed more interested in getting orders sight unseen for the HHR that wasn't in stock either or their huge lineup of truck based SUVs.
> GM is just the best example of the problems the Big3 all face: an > inability to understand what people want, an inability to make a > completely reliable car line, an apparent inability to look beyond > immediate profits... May I suggest I feel it's more that they try to force on the public what they think we want. They've never asked my opinion on what vehicle I want next. When I bought my Concord in '96 the parting comment from the sales person was see you in a few years for your SUV. How dumb!
It seems they need a BIG down turn to smarten them up. Chrysler smartened up in the 80s, now they are off on their own trip which was pissed off many of their long term mid sized car buyers, but admittedly the 300 has made them lots on money. However it appears the 300 is killing the large Mercedes sales.
HLS@nospam.nix - 11 Jan 2006 19:25 GMT http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=aol
> When I saw this on the tube, I kept thinking that the news guy had it > wrong. That they were talking about the camaro but showing a mustang. Definitely inspired by early Camaro's. Nice looking car. I wonder if the petroleum poor world is ready for another spate of muscle cars.
. - 11 Jan 2006 21:35 GMT http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=aol
> > When I saw this on the tube, I kept thinking that the news guy had it > > wrong. That they were talking about the camaro but showing a mustang. > > Definitely inspired by early Camaro's. Nice looking car. I wonder if the > petroleum poor world is ready for another spate of muscle cars. Looks nothing like the old Camaro to me, but does bear quite the striking resemblance to both the new and old Challenger.
Mike Marlow - 11 Jan 2006 22:48 GMT http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=aol
> When I saw this on the tube, I kept thinking that the news guy had it > wrong. That they were talking about the camaro but showing a mustang. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Andy C.(never #) Well - it is reminiscent of the early Camaro, but I agree that they did get it more like a Mustang look than they should have. The pic on the web site makes it look very Mustang-ish in the rear.
 Signature -Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
Harry Face - 11 Jan 2006 23:19 GMT Andy
The Camaro concept doesn't look like a Mustang to me or anybody I know .
Harryface 05 Park Avenue, 33,175 91 Bonneville LE 305,279
Lanze - 12 Jan 2006 01:39 GMT Looks great and comes with a nice motor. With all these remakes coming out from the (fabulous three) this should help keep buyers away from the other foreign manufactures. I love this car!
> Andy > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 05 Park Avenue, 33,175 > 91 Bonneville LE 305,279 Oil Can Harry - 12 Jan 2006 03:23 GMT > Andy > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 05 Park Avenue, 33,175 > 91 Bonneville LE 305,279 Me Neeva
Cool Jet - 12 Jan 2006 04:38 GMT > Andy > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 05 Park Avenue, 33,175 > 91 Bonneville LE 305,279 It's almost unanimous!
James C. Reeves - 22 Jan 2006 00:35 GMT > Andy > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 05 Park Avenue, 33,175 > 91 Bonneville LE 305,279 I agree. Nice looking car too!
Nomen Nescio - 12 Jan 2006 02:50 GMT What has looks got to do with the utility of an automobile? That was the problem of the 50's with tail fins and thousands of pounds of chrome. Remember the '57 Pontiac with the "bombs" on the bumpers and thru-the-bumper exhaust, guaranteeing rusty chrome within 10 days of delivery?
Form must follow function. Style is out of the equation. Even the most beautiful airliner ever built, the Lockheed Constellation, was not styled. Its curvacious lines was for propeller to ground clearance and its triple tail fins was for hangar clearance. When cars' form starts to follow function, we will have beautiful and efficient cars that will have sales appeal.
SgtSilicon - 12 Jan 2006 05:39 GMT I like the look of it but I see what you mean. That rear quarter panel just screams Mustang. I sure liked the earlier artist rendering that were done before.
See: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0409phr_camaro/
>http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=aol > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Andy C.(never #) Spam Hater - 12 Jan 2006 22:44 GMT > http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=a > ol [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > dude. If I wanted something that looked like that, I'd be at the Ford > dealership. Too bad they dumped their Canadian workers who used to produce it. They probably drive Hondas and Toyotas now.
Is it just window dressing styling covering up old GM technology?
gosinn@gmail.com - 13 Jan 2006 00:55 GMT "Another bad day for General Motors and downgrades for Coca-Cola
Of the many fallers, ailing carmaker General Motors suffered the most, losing 4.1 per cent to $20.96 as last week's rally faded into the memory, while retailer Wal-Mart fell 1.8 per cent to $45.74 on fears that it may be forced to spend more on healthcare for its employees."
Peter - 13 Jan 2006 04:45 GMT >"Another bad day for General Motors and downgrades for Coca-Cola > >Of the many fallers, ailing carmaker General Motors suffered the most, >losing 4.1 per cent to $20.96 as last week's rally faded into the >memory, while retailer Wal-Mart fell 1.8 per cent to $45.74 on fears >that it may be forced to spend more on healthcare for its employees." Maryland voted to pass the Wal Mart bill. basically companies employing more than 10,000 people to spend 8% of their payroll on employee health care.
I think the Supreme Court will take exception to this law. as it discriminately targets selected companies rather than being applied evenly and fairly across all business, including UPS and FED EX.
gosinn@gmail.com - 13 Jan 2006 12:16 GMT "Wall Street's credit default swaps traders now view GM as a company so risky that a holder now must pay as much as $12 per year for every $100 of the automaker's five-year corporate debt if they want to hedge against a default, up from $8 to $9 just several weeks ago. In addition, credit default swaps traders are now demanding more of that money up front from investors looking to protect their GM holdings.
Banc of America analysts reiterated a sell rating on the company's stock, saying they believe the odds GM management could be held accountable for the accounting woes has risen and this could accelerate a bankruptcy protection decision they judged to be "inevitable.""
Spam Hater - 14 Jan 2006 07:29 GMT > "Wall Street's credit default swaps traders now view GM as a company so > risky that a holder now must pay as much as $12 per year for every $100 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > accountable for the accounting woes has risen and this could accelerate > a bankruptcy protection decision they judged to be "inevitable."" Business week said the DOW is being held down because of GM's failing stock. The DOW is considering removing GM from that small index.
> The biggest news at the Detroit Auto Show, which opened on Jan. 8, wasn't > sleek cars but clunky carmakers. GM (GM ) cut prices on many models, hoping a > little realism would end the boom-and-bust incentive cycles. On Jan. 10, > Jerome York, a turnaround artist and top deputy of GM shareholder Kirk > Kerkorian, made a speech urging the company to ditch some brands, chop the > dividend, and set clear financial goals gosinn@gmail.com - 14 Jan 2006 12:11 GMT "General Motors gave notice that it will seek fresh concessions from its US workers and further cost savings from overseas operations as part of a more aggressive drive to stem heavy losses at the world's largest carmaker.
The savings are projected to amount to $14bn a year by 2010, based on 2005 revenues - twice the current target. "We realise that we can and must do more on all four elements of the turnaround plan," Rick Wagoner, chief executive, told analysts in Detroit on Friday."
xblazinlv - 14 Jan 2006 08:43 GMT This thread is complete BS.... there is no PROOF that GM is going under by any of the opinionated stuff you've posted.
------------------------------------ Mike Mangione http://www.carforums.net
HLS@nospam.nix - 15 Jan 2006 15:19 GMT > This thread is complete BS.... there is no PROOF that GM is going under > by any of the opinionated stuff you've posted. Some of the most competent investment sources in the USA have warned of the possibility of bankruptcy, Mike. Possibility, not PROOF. Some have described it as likely, and at least one has said it is INEVITABLE:
Investors, except for the most loyal, are viewing the facts and the condition of the company, and some are easing out.
Your post is not PROOF, but is an indication that (1) you don't read business and investment news, or (2) your loyalty to GM has made you tunnel visioned.
Spam Hater - 16 Jan 2006 21:44 GMT > This thread is complete BS.... there is no PROOF that GM is going under > by any of the opinionated stuff you've posted. OK why don't you buy some GM stock. <:) It's now a great deal. If I saw some GM products I liked I'd certainly buy some stock.
Back in the 80s I made money twice on Chrysler's ups and downs, but I thought they had some hope.
Guess - 26 Jan 2006 04:45 GMT >http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/09/detroit_camaro_concept/?eref=aol > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Andy C.(never #) Moron ! It looks nothing like a Mustang.. Ever get out much ? you can clearly see the rear quarters as well as the roofline and grill are right from and early Camaro... With those skills, you need a yugo...
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