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Car Forum / GMC Cars / February 2006battery life
Anyone here know the average life of a GM battery? 2001 Buick Century 88000 miles. Time to change? ernie Are you having problems with it?? If not, leave it be until you notice an issue. ------------------------------------ Mike Mangione http://www.carforums.net > Are you having problems with it?? If not, leave it be until you notice > an issue. This is not the best practice. A battery can up and quite without warning, leaving you stranded. You should be able to get 5 years from a good battery depending on the climate in your area. Replace it at five to be safe, or replace it when the warranty expires. I replace mine at five, but my current car (1995) that I purchased in 2002 had the original battery. Since just purchasing it, I didn't think much of the battery, until two weeks later the battery went and left me stranded on the side of the highway. Steve Barely started this afternoon. Drove the car about five miles and now it will not crank, like low battery. The green light shows inside the battery.I have it on a trikle charger now. what should a multimeter read if it needs to be replaced? ernie > Barely started this afternoon. Drove > the car about five miles and now it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > needs to be replaced? > ernie Only a fool would tinker with a battery given the facts you present. Does lightening need to strike you before you figure out your battery is DEAD? Get a battery and use that multimeter to verify that your charging system is putting out about 14V with the accessories turned on. Driving with a low battery does more than cost you for a tow or the inconvenience. It causes severe wear and tear on your alternator at a minimum. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't like to "notice an issue" when it's 20 below zero and I'm in some parking lot somewhere. Problems or not, if it's 5 years old or more and winter is on or coming soon, the battery gets replaced with a fresh one. >Are you having problems with it?? If not, leave it be until you notice >an issue. > >------------------------------------ >Mike Mangione >http://www.carforums.net > Anyone here know the average life of a GM battery? > 2001 Buick Century 88000 miles. Time to change? > ernie Batteries in Texas last 3-5 years. The heat destroys them. > > Anyone here know the average life of a GM battery? > > 2001 Buick Century 88000 miles. Time to change? > > ernie > > Batteries in Texas last 3-5 years. > The heat destroys them. Heat, vibration, and overall lower quality (in my opinion) than batteries of years past. I think you are fortunate to get 5 years out of a battery here. OE Lead Calcium: 46 to 49 months average life. Personal observation working for a battery specialist upwards 8 to 10 years. Aftermarket Hybrid Lead Calcium / Antimony: 36 to 39 months. Batteries do fail at a higher rate in hot weather. >> > Anyone here know the average life of a GM battery? >> > 2001 Buick Century 88000 miles. Time to change? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of years past. I think you are fortunate to get 5 years out of a battery > here. My understanding is that Toyota Prius hybrid has an 8 years guaranty on everything I was asking at the Toyota garage yesterday and they said they had not seen any Prius in for repairs yet even if they had been sold a few years > My understanding is that Toyota Prius hybrid has an 8 years guaranty on > everything > I was asking at the Toyota garage yesterday and they said they had not > seen any Prius in for repairs yet even if they had been sold a few years I guess they don't work on Toyotas then. Not to say that the Prius is junk or even problem prone, but you tell me any car that has not made it back in to the deal for some form of repair or warranty work. In the case of the Prius, they have a known software burp that causes them to shutdown unexpectedly. Must be Microsoft software...  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net They work only on Toyotas and it is the only one in Ísland My sister has one and it is like a dream She likes it a lot It does not use M$ Toyota has close to 30% of the market and it is growing a lot I have a Toyota Hilux and such cars you never see advertised If someone wants to change to a newer model there are always a lot of people waiting I was talking to a friend of mine earlier today and he had one such and has gone 500.000 km on it without any major problem - only normal maintenance I have never heard anyone complain about the Toyota Hilux We have lots and lots of trucks and jeeps and they very often get tested to the limit >They work only on Toyotas and it is the only one in Ísland >My sister has one and it is like a dream >She likes it a lot >It does not use M$ another one fell for it. Do the math on how long it takes you to make the $$ back in gas savings. (compare naother model since there is no prius non-hybrid I think). Then once, the warranty is over and you broke even on gas savings, the batteries break and you have to spend $$$$ to replace them. It's just not worth it. get a tdi or corolla and you make almost the mileage. >Toyota has close to 30% of the market and it is growing a lot > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >We have lots and lots of trucks and jeeps and they very often get >tested to the limit I am sure the resell value of the hybrids will be a lot higher and they will in general need a lot less maintenance than older techinque They contain a lot less moving parts I am thinking about the total cost of ownership over many years It is not uncommon for an old technique car to last 10 years I would expect the hybrids to last a lot longer How long will only time tell I guess changing a few batteries over the lifetime of the hybrid car will not be a deciding factor My guess is that we will in the future have several types of hybrids with fuel cells, diesel and other forms of fuel combined with electricity It looks like all the car companies are heading for this so it is highly likely to happen and be the general alternative in a few years time It has all the positive elements of the old cars and a lot more of new positive items I do not see any reason to be afraid of this new technology When we changed from horses to cars there were some negatives This step seems to be only positive Interestingly then electrical cars are older combination has strangely not been looked at seriously before now the last decade > I am sure the resell value of the hybrids will be a lot higher and they > will in general need a lot less maintenance than older techinque > > They contain a lot less moving parts No way they have less moving parts. In case you didn't notice the Prius is a HYBRID, it has a complete gas engine power system and added to that is a complete electric power system. They have MANY more parts to fail. > I am thinking about the total cost of ownership over many years Standard gasoline or diesel still have a lower total cost over the years. > It is not uncommon for an old technique car to last 10 years > I would expect the hybrids to last a lot longer > How long will only time tell > > I guess changing a few batteries over the lifetime of the hybrid car > will not be a deciding factor At over 10 grand a change it will make a BIG difference to folks who actually own the car for a long time. BUT many folks who own them are the type that trade vehicles every couple years as the fads change anyway. It will be interesting to see wht the Prius brings on a used car basis. > My guess is that we will in the future have several types of hybrids > with fuel cells, diesel and other forms of fuel combined with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > highly likely to happen and be the general alternative in a few years > time Considering that Ford was the company that introduced the first Hybrid to the general public and that GM was the only one selling a full electric vehicle prior to the hybrids and those sales levels were a joke for both companies I don't see them pushing them anytime soon. > It has all the positive elements of the old cars and a lot more of new > positive items [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > combination has strangely not been looked at seriously before now the > last decade "However hybrid cars are extremely complex, which eventually will jack up the maintenace bill, since they contain both an electric and a gasoline car system." We want to address this because we hear it often. It might even be a good idea for you to bookmark this post for the next time someone tells you that your hybrid will be "very costly" to maintain. Lets look at the Prius since it is the best selling hybrid: First of all, brushless electric motors are not something that breaks easily and they should last the life of the vehicle. The transmission is a relatively elegant planetary gearset CVT design; it should outlast most automatic transmissions and doesn't have a clutch that wears out like a manual. The starter of the car is one of the two electric motors, so it is very powerful and can spin up the engine to much higher speeds than weaker "normal" starters, and it does so only after the Prius has established oil pressure, something that gasoline-only cars don't do, so there's a lot less wear at ignition. Also, the "regular" brakes get used a lot less since most of the stopping power required in everyday driving comes from the electric motor through regenerative breaking. The brakes only engage during hard braking and under a certain very low speed (I've even read somewhere that a mechanic said that the original brake pads of the Prius could last the life of the car is driven carefully enough). As for the gas engine, it usually revs close to optimal speed and stays there thanks to the CVT transmission and electric motors. No constant revving up and down and changing gear. Under the hood of a hybrid Most of the low speed power (where gas engines are at their less efficient) comes from the electric motor which has gobs of torque and delivers it from basically 1 RPM (electric motors have a very flat power-band, no need to wait a few thousands RPMs before there's useable torque). We've already covered the batteries and talked about the fuel economy and emission benefits elsewhere... What else is there to say but: "Things might not be as simple as they look. It is common sense that tells us that a hybrid contains more things that could go wrong, but it is also common sense that tells us, at first, that the Earth is flat. We have to look a bit farther than that." Hybrids (I'm especially talking about "full" hybrids like the Prius, Escape hybrid, Highlander/RX400h, etc - "mild" or "assist" hybrids have some of the same benefits, but not quite to the same level) can have mechanical problems like any car - and they do have some downsides like price and availability - but they also have many mechanical advantages over "regular" cars. Hybrid Taxi You can read about a Vancouver cab driver who loves his Prius and puts lots of trouble-free kilometers on it. And if the Prius is not for you, the Honda Civic hybrid, the Ford Escape and Mariner hybrid and the upcoming Toyota Camry hybrid are all fuel efficient hybrids that look more like "normal" cars. Ford Mariner hybrid We're not saying that repairs on a hybrid can't be problematic and that (at least until most mechanics are familiar with them) you won't have to go to you dealer to fix things because other places might not have the expertise. What we're saying is to be careful when people tell you bad (or good) things about hybrids. Take the time to think about it and do your own research if you have to. Too many people will try to shoot down unfamiliar things without a fair trial (the same thing constantly happens with electric vehicles). Yes, hybrids are complex. But lets not forget that gasoline-only cars are extremely complex too - we just take them for granted. You might end up paying more for some things (initial cost), less for others (small repairs, fuel), but whatever you do, keep in mind that nobody buys a car to save money (otherwise small cars would be really popular in the US) and that the current over-rationalization of every last dollar spent on a hybrid starts to look downright silly when you ask someone how they monetarily justify their engine upgrade, moonroof, subwoofer or mag wheels. We'd rather people paid more for a car that is cleaner than for a car with lots of chrome and a big wasteful engine. But that's not even true; sports cars and huge SUVs usually cost more than a Prius, yet nobody asks people if they makes financial sense the way people will ask you if your hybrid makes business sense... http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/10/hybrids_more_me.php > "However hybrid cars are extremely complex, which eventually will jack > up the maintenace bill, since they contain both an electric and a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > First of all, brushless electric motors are not something that breaks > easily and they should last the life of the vehicle. Notice that key word SHOULD, also what are they antisipating the life of the vehicle? I expect at least 150,000 out of a vehicle with MINOR repairs. The transmission is a relatively elegant planetary gearset CVT design; it should outlast > most automatic transmissions and doesn't have a clutch that wears out > like a manual. Gee there is that SHOULD word again. You might want to look at many vehicles that have had CVT transmissions and you will discover that they no longer do, because they don't last in the real world. The starter of the car is one of the two electric > motors, so it is very powerful and can spin up the engine to much > higher speeds than weaker "normal" starters, Higher speed isn't needed on a starter, No real benefit unless you want to break parts faster. and it does so only after > the Prius has established oil pressure, something that gasoline-only > cars don't do, so there's a lot less wear at ignition. With normal oil changes this little item has been shown to be a non issue in todays vehicles. Also if they are using a different pump to build oil pressure that is one more item to fail that a conventional engine doesn't have. > Also, the "regular" brakes get used a lot less since most of the > stopping power required in everyday driving comes from the electric > motor through regenerative breaking. The brakes only engage during hard > braking and under a certain very low speed (I've even read somewhere > that a mechanic said that the original brake pads of the Prius could > last the life of the car is driven carefully enough). Well we made it from Should to Could. Oh and FYI NOBODY drives that carefully. The other minor thing is that the brakes DO engange at every stop they have to since they are the same as the brakes used on 99 percent of Toyotas autos. The difference is when you slow down some of the energy is returned to the battery pack by the wheel motor. As for the gas > engine, it usually revs close to optimal speed and stays there thanks > to the CVT transmission and electric motors. No constant revving up and > down and changing gear. No just constant starting and stopping of the engine depending on how you are moving the throttle. Real poor trade off there. > Under the hood of a hybrid > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > power-band, no need to wait a few thousands RPMs before there's useable > torque). Since most gas engine provide enough torque to move a vehicle at idle speed I'd love to know where the "few thousands" comes in. 99 percent of vehicles out there don't even turn a "few thousands" at redline. We've already covered the batteries and talked about the fuel > economy and emission benefits elsewhere... Did they mention that most folks who own hybrids are not happy with the mileage claims and that they are MUCH lower than they are touted to be in the paperwork. > What else is there to say but: "Things might not be as simple as they > look. It is common sense that tells us that a hybrid contains more [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > some downsides like price and availability - but they also have many > mechanical advantages over "regular" cars. Sounds like double talk to me. The Prius and the Escape are BOTH assist hybrids. And they DO have the exact same problems as a "regular" car since they have the same drivetrain, they just add extra crap on to make it a hybrid. > Hybrid Taxi > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/10/hybrids_more_me.php Gee what a surprise that the information comes from a "trustworthy organization" that > > "However hybrid cars are extremely complex, which eventually will jack > > up the maintenace bill, since they contain both an electric and a [quoted text clipped - 137 lines] > Gee what a surprise that the information comes from a "trustworthy > organization" that has an agenda to push. From Hybrids.com Topic: Reality check- hybrids, fuel efficiency Well, some people think hybrids are the greatest thing since sliced bread. And maybe they have a point . But let's get something straight. When you are driving a hybrid, you are not "saving the planet". In Europe they have much higher fuel economy than the US on average. The average German car gets 40 miles per gallon. Yet they don't have many hybrids over there . The Prius has sold very poorly in Europe. So how do they get the good economy, then? 1) Smaller cars appropriate to their needs. Europeans don't buy a pickup just to drive to work. I lived in the UK in the late 80's and the only people with pickups lived in rural areas, and they never drove them for commuting. SUV's were nonexistant, except for some Land Rovers that a few people in rural areas or workers used (to actually haul things). Now days its pretty much the same. A car about the same size as a Honda Civic is considered a "midsize" car in Europe. In the US, it's considered small, but in Europe it would be considered a family car. Cars the size of a Honda Insight are very common. 2) More efficient engines. Lean burn gasoline and diesel engines. And lots of turbochargers. Turbochargers aren't just for performance cars, they capture waste energy from the engine and enhance the efficiency. It's far more cost effective to build a turborcharged engine than to build a hybrid. Also, it should be pointed out that riding a bus is far more energy efficient than driving a hybrid ever will be. Sure, not everybody wants to ride a bus, but you are saving more fuel and emiting less greenhouse gasses than driving around even in a hybrid. So what's my point? Toyota has the Prius. It's got alot of technical gee whiz stuff. But if they were serious about "saving the planet", every car they built would be a hybrid. Instead, Toyota and other automakers want to use hybrids to raise their CAFE average so they can sell more gas guzzlers at a profit (Toyota even tried to petition CARB in California to let them offset Prius sales with more Land Cruiser and large SUV and truck sales- but they failed). Or they want to apply the HSD technology to gas guzzlers, and make them only a little less gas guzzling so they can meet CAFE standards while continuing to sell oversized, overweight, ill-handling SUV's to the public. Prius is a big marketting plus for Toyota. It attracts customers to dealerships and gives Toyota a good image with the public, enhancing the prestige for every single car they sell. When they don't have a Prius on hand, they can always try to sell them something else, too. Again, if they were serious about selling cars with the HSD and inccreasing the fuel economy, they would be making lots of small hybrid cars, not SUV's. Instead, only a small fraction of all cars they make are hybrids. Their next planned hybrid is a large SUV that will consume more gas than many smaller cars or station wagons. Ford's first hybrid was a small SUV that barely gets the gas mileage of a small station wagon like the Toyota Matrix. Dodge's first "hybrids" were large trucks with very poor fuel economy. SUV's and trucks every where, but this is hardly energy efficiency. One guy driving to work in an overweight, overpowered hybrid car or SUV is not saving the planet. http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0510/16/A19-349691.htm I thought this thread is about "battery life" including Lead Calcium Alloy, Lead Antimony Alloy, Hybrid Lead Calcium - Lead Antimony Alloy, and Low Antimonial Lead Alloy B A T T E R I E S. 99% of the ACDelco Freedom Batteries for domestic US-Canadian cars are Lead Calcium Alloy. Who cares about non GM Electric Hybrid Cars when the Battery cost per KG outweighs the benefit to the ecology. snip The reason for the should word is easy They have only recently started to be produced They have an excelent track record so far They should be able to last a long long time and get high resale value Those that have been resold have in many cases been higher than new prices Thing is it is a long que for these hybrid cars and it is difficult to get one There is no need to advertise because the demand is way higher than supply The producers are very careful of not producing many because they want production to grow slowly while they gain experience with these hybrid cars at customers Everything looks like this is a huge success Many who do not get a hybrid are not too happy otherwise it is fine The repair men are not too excited because it will mean a lot less for them to do Everyone want to know how they age What you should do is wait Ageing takes time > Lets look at the Prius since it is the best selling hybrid: > > First of all, brushless electric motors are not something that breaks > > easily and they should last the life of the vehicle. > Notice that key word SHOULD, also what are they antisipating the life of > the vehicle? I expect at least 150,000 out of a vehicle with MINOR > repairs. > The transmission is a relatively elegant planetary gearset CVT design; > it should outlast > > most automatic transmissions and doesn't have a clutch that wears out > > like a manual. > Gee there is that SHOULD word again. >I am sure the resell value of the hybrids will be a lot higher and they >will in general need a lot less maintenance than older techinque I sure as hellw ouldn't want it when the warranty is over and the batteries are at the end of its life >They contain a lot less moving parts LESS ????? no way.. it's convential engine PLUS electric.. there's MORE parts moving for sure. >I am thinking about the total cost of ownership over many years > >It is not uncommon for an old technique car to last 10 years >I would expect the hybrids to last a lot longer >How long will only time tell nobody would want them since the batteries WILL die. >I guess changing a few batteries over the lifetime of the hybrid car >will not be a deciding factor a few ? How about 3000 dollars worth ? >My guess is that we will in the future have several types of hybrids >with fuel cells, diesel and other forms of fuel combined with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >When we changed from horses to cars there were some negatives >This step seems to be only positive it's not the solution. it's a patch.. it's delaying the inevitable. there are non hybrids out that get almost the same mileage. You'll achieve a lot more by driving smaller lighter cars. >Interestingly then electrical cars are older >combination has strangely not been looked at seriously before now the >last decade >OE Lead Calcium: 46 to 49 months average life. >Personal observation working for a battery specialist upwards 8 to 10 years. > >Aftermarket Hybrid Lead Calcium / Antimony: 36 to 39 months. You have it right on. My OEM lasted 5 years. The aftermarket only 2. This is in Arizona so the heat reduces the life quite a bit. >Batteries do fail at a higher rate in hot weather. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> of years past. I think you are fortunate to get 5 years out of a battery >> here. >OE Lead Calcium: 46 to 49 months average life. >Personal observation working for a battery specialist upwards 8 to 10 years. > >Aftermarket Hybrid Lead Calcium / Antimony: 36 to 39 months. > >Batteries do fail at a higher rate in hot weather. Are there any aftermarket batteries that are OEM equivalent and yield that service life? My 1997 Cavalier is on its original battery. Still starts OK at -20C My 2000 Chev Venture is also on its original battery. My experience has always been about 8 years on the original battery, 3 to 4 years per replacement battery after that. I find it hard to believe that manufacturers are installing higher quality batteries in the cars. Perhaps it has to do with newer engine versus older engine. SignatureDenis Roy D. Roy Woodcraft www.ideasinwood.com > Anyone here know the average life of a GM battery? > 2001 Buick Century 88000 miles. Time to change? > ernie > My 1997 Cavalier is on its original battery. Still starts OK at -20C > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > manufacturers are installing higher quality batteries in the cars. Perhaps > it has to do with newer engine versus older engine. Small cars with small engines are easier on batteries and myself I have seen no more batteries life with OEM batteries than with WalMart batteries. If I get 4 years out of one I am very happy and at 5 years I replace them regardless of function Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com Thanks for the positive responses. I changed the battery OEM. Four and a half years was a little less than I expected from GM, but I don't like being stranded ernie On 2/11/06 6:49 PM, in article 1139701780.786316.160970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "ernie" <ernests131@charter.net> wrote: > Four and a half years was a little less than I expected from GM, Get used to it.. 8 years old and going strong with a Sears Gold Battery in my 94 Chevy 3/4 van. >> My 1997 Cavalier is on its original battery. Still starts OK at -20C >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > batteries. If I get 4 years out of one I am very happy and at 5 years I > replace them regardless of function > Anyone here know the average life of a GM battery? > 2001 Buick Century 88000 miles. Time to change? > ernie Not distance, time. I average about 5 yrs, if the battery hasn't been damaged by a deep discharge due to lights left on. A few times I've had shorter life on a battery that had no charge when I bought the car. Many batteries are damaged when new due to cars sitting around. If it shows signs of low low cranking speed watch out. Then usually a check of the cells shows at least one bad. I usually replace with a CTC battery of the largest size I can install in the mount. > On 2/11/2006 2:42 PM ... ernie wrote: > Anyone here know the average life of a GM battery? > 2001 Buick Century 88000 miles. Time to change? > ernie I replace them on a 4-5 year schedule with what ever is on sale (cheap). I haven't been left stranded for battery reasons for at least 25 years since I started treating them as a scheduled maintenance replacement item. For not much more than a couple of oil changes, it's worth the peace of mind. I might as well chime in too. I got a 100 month warranty Sears Rangehandler in the Bonneville. 1000 Cranking Amps / 900 Cold Cranking Amps. On sale for $89.00 Get the biggest & the best. Harryface 05 Park Avenue, 34,145 91 Bonneville LE 305,767 >Anyone here know the average life of a GM battery? >2001 Buick Century 88000 miles. Time to change? >ernie Take it to an autozone or checkers and have them test it. They do a load test and will be able to tell you. This is the only reliable way. Voltage doesn't say much about the condition. It can say 12 volts and drop as soon as it gets a load on it. I usually notice it when it gets bad. It COULD also be the terminals getting corroded. I'd check that first. Have some jumper cables with you just in case. When you jump it, do NOT disconnect the battery. |
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