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Car Forum / GMC Cars / July 2006Ball Joint Replacement
Hello, Mechanic tells me that my 1990 Geo Prizm needs a Lower Ball Joint on Driver side. How do I figure if I really need a ball joint and am not just replacing a good working part? Thanks, > Mechanic tells me that my 1990 Geo Prizm needs a Lower Ball Joint on > Driver side. How do I figure if I really need a ball joint and am not > just replacing a good working part? If a mechanic tells you your 16 year old car needs a ball joint, it most likely needs a ball joint. > > Mechanic tells me that my 1990 Geo Prizm needs a Lower Ball Joint on > > Driver side. How do I figure if I really need a ball joint and am not > > just replacing a good working part? > > If a mechanic tells you your 16 year old car needs a ball joint, it most > likely needs a ball joint. He posted a month ago with his steering problem and was told it was his ball joints then. He just doesn't want to belive this is happening to him at a million miles. His mechanic was quite conservative in suggesting it needed only the one side. Still not good enough. He asked if it could be tightened or something. On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:33:01 -0700, nashak wrote: > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks, Fix it before you end up looking like one of those NYC cabbies with the front wheel twisted and stuffed up into the fender. >Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Thanks, Um, you really, really want to have both those lower ball joints replaced. I procrastinated on my S-10 awhile back and was treated to the excitement of one breaking loose at 70 mph on the interstate. No harm done except for the towing fee - and having to change my pants. That kind of excitement no one needs. I was *very* lucky!!!!! - Larry A. > Um, you really, really want to have both those lower ball joints > replaced. I procrastinated on my S-10 awhile back and was treated to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > - Larry A. Yeahbut think of the cool story you have to tell over beers...  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> Um, you really, really want to have both those lower ball joints >> replaced. I procrastinated on my S-10 awhile back and was treated to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Yeahbut think of the cool story you have to tell over beers... True. ;)) On the other hand, it reminds me of the old definition of "adventure" - someone a long ways off, having a hard time. - Larry A. @#@ Get the dam thing changed before you kill someone. cheap or what? > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks, Glad to see these $$$ answers. went to my regular mechanic today. he checked the ball joint and said they were fine. The other shop was just trying to scam me. if you f$$$ do not have a helpful reply then don't reply at all. I just wanted to know what are the symptoms of a ball joint going bad. I got all kind of s$$$ answers from s$$$ people but not one reply pertinent to the question. Go figure.. > @#@ > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > Thanks, Well what was the problem? > Glad to see these $$$ answers. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> > >> > Thanks, > Glad to see these $$$ answers. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Go figure.. Well, try this... We normally jacked up the car a bit, off the ground, put a bar under the tire, and levered it up and down to check the movement in the joint. There are specifications for permissible movement for your application, I am sure, but I dont know what they are exactly. I dont have a manual on this car. I have seen cars with bad ball joints go into serious buffeting and vibration in corners. When they break, the whole wheel detaches at this spot and you lose control. Alignment is impossible with badly worn ball joints, so a number of alignment related symptoms can be expected. Maybe the first mechanic was trying to scam you, but I suspect he detected looseness in the joint and recommended the change. If he really wanted to scam you, he would have gone for more than one balljoint. Those joints go for about $45-60 each at Autozone. You have one yes, one no; why not go to a third opinion? > > Glad to see these $$$ answers. > > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > You have one yes, one no; why not go to a third opinion? Thank you. Now, these kind of answers I can live with. My concern is that the only symptom I have is that the car makes a sqeaking noise at low speed AND on uneven surface. Now that could be due to any number of reasons. I wanted to know what the symptoms would be if a ball joint is going bad because some of the symptoms that I've come across on the internet - car shaking, making a noise at every bump etc. etc. did not seem to be happening in my case. Yes, I will be getting a third opinion. As I read in one of the articles, if you apply too much pressure (I think more than 25 psi) you can make nearly any ball joint move as if it has gone bad. > Thank you. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > articles, if you apply too much pressure (I think more than 25 psi) you > can make nearly any ball joint move as if it has gone bad. Noise is another indication sometimes. Looseness in the joint can cause the bumping noise you are referring to. Squeaking is sometimes (and there are lots of exceptions) a-frame bushings, may be sway bar bushings, and can be wear indicators on disc brake systems. Sometimes the disc brakes just squeak a little. And you are right that some ball joints show more play than would be normally desirable. IIRC, early Falcon and Mustang ball joints were often replaced when they were within manufacturers specifications. (And this was a measured movement, not a visual evaluation.) Maybe someone here can comment. Ball joints are not something that you want to ignore IF they are failing. At the age of this car, excessive wear is certainly something to look into. If the cursory search I did at Autozone is correct, this car has upper and lower ball joints on each side. To replace the whole set would run into a few bucks. > > Thank you. > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > joints on > each side. To replace the whole set would run into a few bucks. Oh I agree completely. Ball Joints are not to be played with. My concern is that I do not see any symptom of ball joint being bad except the squeaking noise (which could also be caused by bending of rotor, since this squeak dies down as soon as I press my brakes). Hence for a mechanic and some dumb f$$$s on this group to insist it is ball joints and nothing else is sheer stupidity. > Squeaking is sometimes (and there are lots of exceptions) a-frame bushings, > may be sway bar bushings, and can be wear indicators on disc brake systems. > Sometimes the disc brakes just squeak a little. As well, dry ball joints will squeak. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net He told you that because he wants you to die you cheap fuk. > Glad to see these $$$ answers. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > > > > Thanks, > He told you that because he wants you to die you cheap fuk. thank you you motherf$$$$$ > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks, Well, you could spend as many years in the trade as your mechanic, and then you'll know. Or you can invest in a school for mechanics. Then you'd know. Or you could quit seeing thieves behind every lamp post while you drive around in a 16 year old car - unable to believe that parts wear out. Of course you could always just fall for the most common scam of all time - tell an owner that his car needs ball joints... Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > -Mike- > mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net You mean to say that you have replaced whatever the mechanic has told you?? Well, it would be interesting to know how many people are on this group that have never disputed a mechanic's opinion, have always taken his word and not even gotten a second opinion. I'll tell you something that you have obviously missed. Look at the postings and you will see people asking for advice all the time and these are not just the DIYs. These are people who have been scammed by "mechanics".... > You mean to say that you have replaced whatever the mechanic has told > you?? Well, it would be interesting to know how many people are on this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > people asking for advice all the time and these are not just the DIYs. > These are people who have been scammed by "mechanics".... I do all of my own work so it's very infrequent that a mechanic tells me what I need to keep my car up. That said, when I don't know about something, I go and ask qualified people. I don't turn around then, and post to a newsgroup, immediately questioning whether I'm getting scammed. Maybe you need to take your car to a mechanic you can trust. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net There is a reason why many people work on their own cars (apart from liking what they do) and that is from your 'qualified' mechanics. what is wrong in hearing what the mechanic has to say and then asking on the newsgroups? you guys seem to be so offended that I've questioned a mechanic. It might be an old car but I would not want to change a part if nothing is wrong with it and if some people think that it is then they can kiss my a$$ and if some people feel offended that a person has the temerity to question a 'qualified' mechanic then they can also kiss my a$$. Just bcos you don't turn around and question a mechanic does not make it a norm for everyone to follow. How can you assume that everyone should do the same just bcos you do it that way? you remind me of george carlin - isn't is surprising that everyone on the road driving slower than you is an idiot and everyone driving faster than you is insane... thanks but no thanks on your posts. they like many others have not been at all helpful and to the point. Maybe one of these days you will learn to respond to posts rather than attack a person just bcos you don't agree with what others do. > > You mean to say that you have replaced whatever the mechanic has told > > you?? Well, it would be interesting to know how many people are on this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > post to a newsgroup, immediately questioning whether I'm getting scammed. > Maybe you need to take your car to a mechanic you can trust. > There is a reason why many people work on their own cars (apart from > liking what they do) and that is from your 'qualified' mechanics. One of the best things a client and a mechanic could do would be to have a short talk before and after the work. Most mechanics are honest, but some are crooks. The client has a right to be heard, not just talked down to. My point exactly. Since my regular mechanic does not do inspections, I took the car to this other mechanic who gave me bull not only on ball joints but also on rear brake shoes (this I did not mention earlier lest these other people start getting fits over it). My regular mechanic looked at the shoes and said that they will have to be replaced eventually but not at the moment. Hence the car should have passed inspection. Now I have to go to another shop to get this done. > > There is a reason why many people work on their own cars (apart from > > liking what they do) and that is from your 'qualified' mechanics. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The client has a right to be heard, not just talked down to. > One of the best things a client and a mechanic could do would be > to have a short talk before and after the work. Most mechanics are > honest, but some are crooks. > > The client has a right to be heard, not just talked down to. You are right, of course. But I'd venture to say that most customers are honest, but some are crooks. I had an interesting little episode last weekend that has absolutely nothing to do with ball joints, but reading your post reminded me of what happened. I was down at our shop on a Saturday...working on my wife's car....checking out the A/C. A "customer" came barreling into the shop....asked me "do you work here"? I said "yes, I do". He then asked "why did the fellow that I phoned tell me that there are no mechanics working on the weekend"? I said: "because I'm not "working" today, but I do "work here"! Anyway, he claimed that we had pulled the seat out of his truck (which we did) and damaged his rear half door so that it wouldn't open. He was going on a fishing trip with his truck and was quite excited about the whole thing. Hey, no problem...I said I'd take a look at it. Pulled it in to the shop and got the door apart and had a look inside. It was obvious that the door had not been working for awhile and was not the result of anything that the technician had done. I didn't say anything, but just went and got the door latch from parts, ordered another part that it needed and jury rigged the lower latch with a hose clamp until the part came in. He was happy as could be, gave me complements about how I was changing his view about mechanics integrity....etc. We took his truck in to the shop the day before because he was whining that he had to get it fixed. He had no appointment, the truck was a used piece of sh.t that he had gotten out in British Columbia and the air bag light was on. Turns out the vehicle had "probably" been thru a river, the SDM under the seat was corroded. Then he comes in on a Saturday, claiming we broke all this other stuff. The nerve! Whatever, I fixed it, got him on his way...and he still has to come back for the other part. When he does....I'll have a little chat with him about "honesty and integrity". I've run into many, many dishonest customers. We actually have to have all sorts of controls and checks in place in order to protect ourselves from them. Ian > thanks but no thanks on your posts. they like many others have not been > at all helpful and to the point. Maybe one of these days you will learn > to respond to posts rather than attack a person just bcos you don't > agree with what others do. You must be new to Usenet. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks, If you trust random people on the 'net more than you trust your mechanic then you have some serious judgement problems and/or don't know how to choose a mechanic. John > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > John Would it not be better to answer the question I posed rather than post irrelevant messages? If I need to know about judgement problems that I may or may not have, then I would ask for it and since I didn't, let's just stick to the question on hand. I took my truck to Kal Tire for a free inspection because I heard a noise in my front end. They said everything had to be replaced, including 5 parts that were just replaced a year ago. They quoted me $2200.00 Canadian. I took it to my friend at a ford dealership "although my truck is a GM". He told me that I needed a pitman arm, rag joint, 1 upper ball joint, 2 shocks, idler arm, but the other "roughly 13 parts, 20 grease nipples to give you an idea" were fine. He said he couldn't move the other 3 ball joints. Anyway, I bought the parts for $500.00 and put them in myself. Anyway, they are right telling you that since it was just one ball joint, sounds like the guy was being truthful. I would have fallen for that. You, otoh are also right in getting a third opinion and have every right to get a 4th opinion in this ng. I never get scammed by mechanics "anymore", but the free inspection was too tempting. Nothing is free. > > > Hello, > > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > may or may not have, then I would ask for it and since I didn't, let's > just stick to the question on hand. A squeek in the front end that go's away when you apply the brakes. Sounds like a "wear tab". This is a metal clip attached to your brake pad that rubs against your rotor once your pads are worn down that will let you know when your pads are almost worn out. I bend mine back until the next sunny day, or the weekend, when I have time to replace them. Anyway, I haven't read all your posts. You have probably already had that checked out. GL > > > Hello, > > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > may or may not have, then I would ask for it and since I didn't, let's > just stick to the question on hand. > A squeek in the front end that go's away when you apply the brakes. > Sounds like a "wear tab". This is a metal clip attached to your brake [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Anyway, I haven't read all your posts. You have probably already had > that checked out. GL You know, I read about that and I am going to check it over the weekend. No-one on this group has suggested the 'wear tab'. Of course if you go over the posts on this topic you will see some people who were hell-bent that it is the ball joint (because a mechanic said so), some who did psycho-analysis of the problem and gave solutions/opinions on everything but the problem on hand (I think that was because they did not know the answer and were just being defensive on their lack of knowledge). > You know, I read about that and I am going to check it over the > weekend. No-one on this group has suggested the 'wear tab'. Of course [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that was because they did not know the answer and were just being > defensive on their lack of knowledge). Your description of the problem was dismal at best! It took you 3 to 4 posts before anyone got "all" of the information. I realize that people like you probably imagine that everyone has a crystal ball...but it sure helps when you are more specific. The other way you can figure out what's wrong is to simply drive it until (your brakes start grinding, there...it was the wear sensor) or (the ball joint comes apart, there.....it was a worn ball joint). You'll figure it out eventually! Ian > > You know, I read about that and I am going to check it over the > > weekend. No-one on this group has suggested the 'wear tab'. Of course [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Ian Ian, As you have no doubt seen, your post does come under the ones where you give opinion/solution on everything but the problem on hand (see my above posts). if you do not understand a problem, the solution is not - "crystal ball" but a reply asking for more information. I do not know how stupid you have to be to continue on this path but that is your choice. > Ian, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > not know how stupid you have to be to continue on this path but that > is your choice. I've been here a while. Most people have probably given up responding to your request for info. Why on earth people inhabiting these newsgroups should have to "ask" you for more information is beyond me. You are the one looking for info...get your ducks lined up "before" you venture in here. Ian > I've been here a while. Most people have probably given up responding > to your request for info. Why on earth people inhabiting these newsgroups [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ian And in all that time you still have not learnt anything and I suspect that there are many things beyond you. So don't put too much pressure on that brain. No-one's putting a gun to your head to respond. It is your choice. If you feel that the information is not sufficient to answer then you can either ignore the post or ask for more information. Rest of the stuff you can either keep them to yourself or stuff it in your 'you know where'. is that clear or is it still 'beyond' you? >> I've been here a while. Most people have probably given up responding >> to your request for info. Why on earth people inhabiting these [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Rest of the stuff you can either keep them to yourself or stuff it in > your 'you know where'. is that clear or is it still 'beyond' you? Hey pal, why don't you follow your own advice and STFU. You came here askiing for advice, the advice given wasn't to your liking. Instead of following your own advice (Rest of the stuff you can either keep them to yourself or stuff it in your 'you know where') you have made numerous posts , such as the one above, letting everyone know how you feel. We all heard you the first time, so, if you are unhappy posting here just STFU and LEAVE. Ian has been a long time member here as is always willing to help anyone. He aslo is very knowledgable and his advice is usually spot on. You seem to be just a whiner with a never ending list of things to whine about. You asked for advice, it wasn't to your liking and you let everyone know this. Everyone heard you the first time, but for some reason you have been carrying on about this for over week. So lets see if you can now follow your own advice, if you don't have anything positive to say and/or cannot answer the question then " Rest of the stuff you can either keep them to yourself or stuff it in your 'you know where'. is that clear or is it still 'beyond' you? " Don't let the door hit you in the a.s on the way out! > >> I've been here a while. Most people have probably given up responding > >> to your request for info. Why on earth people inhabiting these [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Don't let the door hit you in the a.s on the way out! maybe you should start STFU yourself. No-one asked you about your opinion. Ian got what he deserved when he questions why people should reply to incomplete posts etc. etc. and if you think that a few 'bullies' like yourself can gang up and make this group your personal domain then you are more fu'ed up than you realize. Ian could be a great mechanic (even though he has not provided any meaningful response on this post), but that does not give him the right to question anyone's right to post. So maybe you guys need to leave this group and join a personal AOL like chatgroup where you can question 'rights' of other people. till then take care of your own door and your own a.s. the door might simply miss the big hole you got there >> >> I've been here a while. Most people have probably given up responding >> >> to your request for info. Why on earth people inhabiting these [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> >> Don't let the door hit you in the a.s on the way out! < Bullshit snipped > Wha, wha, wha ...... Still whining I see. I hear cheese goes good with whine........... >> I've been here a while. Most people have probably given up responding >> to your request for info. Why on earth people inhabiting these newsgroups [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Rest of the stuff you can either keep them to yourself or stuff it in > your 'you know where'. is that clear or is it still 'beyond' you? Lets see, Ian = DEALER technician for GM with a LOT of years of actually working on autos and giving correct advice when given the CORRECT INFO. OR Someone who gives info that indicates a bad ball joint who is told the same by at least two mechanics and many folks here. Who then proceeds to WHINE about this and insists that it can't be the ball joints but could be many other items. Who's only replies seem to insist that folks f.ck off when they give advise he doesn't like and that mechanics are all out to scam people. > Since my regular mechanic does not do inspections, I took the car to > this other mechanic who gave me bull not only on ball joints but also [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the moment. Hence the car should have passed inspection. Now I have to > go to another shop to get this done. Must be a great mechanic you trust if he cannot tell a bad ball joint. They are not just looked at during inspections. Oh and if he doesn't do inspections maybe HE is wrong about the wear on the brakes and the ball joints. NAA that couldn't happen. So My suggestion- LEAVE since you seem to dislike the folks here. > >> I've been here a while. Most people have probably given up responding > >> to your request for info. Why on earth people inhabiting these newsgroups [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > off when they give advise he doesn't like and that mechanics are all out > to scam people. FUNNY. where did you read that two mechanics told me that the ball joint is bad? will wait to see your reply... > > Since my regular mechanic does not do inspections, I took the car to > > this other mechanic who gave me bull not only on ball joints but also [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So My suggestion- LEAVE since you seem to dislike the folks here. >>>> I've been here a while. Most people have probably given up responding >>>> to your request for info. Why on earth people inhabiting these newsgroups [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> off when they give advise he doesn't like and that mechanics are all out >> to scam people. > FUNNY. where did you read that two mechanics told me that the ball > joint is bad? will wait to see your reply... > Mechanic tells me that my 1990 Geo Prizm needs a Lower Ball Joint on > Driver side. How do I figure if I really need a ball joint and am not > just replacing a good working part? > Since my regular mechanic does not do inspections, I took the car to > this other mechanic who gave me bull not only on ball joints but also [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the moment. Hence the car should have passed inspection. Now I have to > go to another shop to get this done. > Yes, I will be getting a third opinion. As I read in one of the > articles, if you apply too much pressure (I think more than 25 psi) you > can make nearly any ball joint move as if it has gone bad. >>> Since my regular mechanic does not do inspections, I took the car to >>> this other mechanic who gave me bull not only on ball joints but also [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> the moment. Hence the car should have passed inspection. Now I have to >>> go to another shop to get this done. >> Must be a great mechanic you trust if he cannot tell a bad ball joint. >> They are not just looked at during inspections. Oh and if he doesn't do >> inspections maybe HE is wrong about the wear on the brakes and the ball >> joints. NAA that couldn't happen. >> >> So My suggestion- LEAVE since you seem to dislike the folks here. > You know, I read about that and I am going to check it over the > weekend. No-one on this group has suggested the 'wear tab'. Of course [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > did not know the answer and were just being defensive on their lack of > knowledge). A wear tab would be considerably inconsistent with the descriptions you've put forward up to this point. Bob threw a good idea on the table given the poor descriptions you have offered, but it's not consistent with what you've stated. Wear tabs don't make noises over bumps. Nor do they squeak. They make a grinding noise. People offered you a good amount of information on ball joints because that's what you came in here telling everyone was diagnosed on the car. As well, you have described symptoms consistent with a ball joint problem. You clearly know nothing at all about cars yet you somehow feel empowered to author the above in which you castigate those who do have experiences and who have offered up thoughts. In particular, you make nothing short of a complete a.s of yourself in your diatribes with Ian. You sir, are nothing but a crank. I could think of nothing more fitting than that the front end of your rolling hunk of junk fall out in your driveway because you are too cheap to just get the car fixed. Signature-Mike- mmarlow@REMOVEalltel.net > People offered you a good amount of information on ball joints because > that's what you came in here telling everyone was diagnosed on the car. > Well said, Mike.... If an idiot like this one wants to come and attack Ian, he will find out who has the support on here. > > People offered you a good amount of information on ball joints because > > that's what you came in here telling everyone was diagnosed on the car. > > > Well said, Mike.... > If an idiot like this one wants to come and attack Ian, he will find out who > has the support on here. does not matter who has the support. I am enough for all of you. OTOH you feel the need to support Ian and enlist the support of others. Feelings of insecurity.. likely... > > > People offered you a good amount of information on ball joints because > > > that's what you came in here telling everyone was diagnosed on the car. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > you feel the need to support Ian and enlist the support of others. > Feelings of insecurity.. likely... Ian has support because (1) he is unusually well prepared and conscientious and (2) he is usually easonable - a thinking person. He is not always right... none of us are. Your claim that you 'are enough for all of ' us is a little ambiguous. > Ian has support because (1) he is unusually well prepared and > conscientious and (2) he is usually easonable - a thinking person. > He is not always right... > none of us are. Thanks. Coming from you, that is high praise! Ian > > You know, I read about that and I am going to check it over the > > weekend. No-one on this group has suggested the 'wear tab'. Of course [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > -Mike- > mmarlow@REMOVEalltel.net If only the world events took place as per your wish, Peter Pan. But thankfully it does not. |
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