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Car Forum / GMC Cars / December 2006Toyota set to surpass GM in 2007
ft.com "By Michiyo Nakamoto in Tokyo Published: December 22 2006 05:47 | Last updated: December 22 2006 11:00 Toyota is poised to surpass General Motors as the world's largest automaker next year with plans unveiled on Friday to produce a record 9.42m vehicles. The Japanese carmaker's leap to the top of the industry is a landmark event that coincides with its 70th anniversary. GM, which has suffered from weak demand in its home market, does not disclose production forecasts but is expected to have produced about 9.17m vehicles this year." > ft.com > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > automaker next year with plans unveiled on Friday to produce a record > 9.42m vehicles. So BLOW me. > ft.com > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > forecasts but is expected to have produced about 9.17m vehicles this > year." Instead of developing more efficient cars and trucks GM elected to cry about "unfair burden". Unfair burden indeed, no wonder Detroit has fallen so very far behind Toyota/Honda/Nissan, etc. Apparently it is easier for Detroit to whine, cry and bitch than innovate. GM is headed straight down the toilet. GM slams possible fuel economy changes http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/26/news/companies/gm_fuel.reut/index.htm Instead of trolling here why don't you go to Japan and work for one tenth of what you are making here. >> ft.com >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > GM slams possible fuel economy changes > http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/26/news/companies/gm_fuel.reut/index.htm > Instead of trolling here why don't you go to Japan and work for one tenth of > what you are making here. Woody, you may not like the message, but you must consider that shooting the messenger is a little dumb. This is a GM newsgroup. News, whether you like the impact or not, should be open to discussion. Which GM brand do you own? mike > "Woody" <TheDuck@Pond.net> wrote in message > > This is a GM newsgroup. News, whether you like the impact or not, should > be > open to discussion. > Which GM brand do you own? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > be > > open to discussion. Buick, Cavalier, VEGA-all three had bad problems and the dealer response was poor. Revenge is sweet, they dealt nastily with me and now it is payback time. I doubt if GM still makes those you owned back then.. The Toyotas and Hondas of old were not so great, as I recall. Why come into a NG to degrade a brand you owned years ago? How can one compare what is on the market today with what was sold even ten years ago. What will you buy when you import breaks down and you have to pay a fortune for parts? My Lexus needed a power steering pump and it cost $1,500 LOL mike >> Which GM brand do you own? >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > response was poor. Revenge is sweet, they dealt nastily with me and > now it is payback time. >> Instead of trolling here why don't you go to Japan and work for one tenth > of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > messenger is a little > dumb. When the messenger is a known troll, shooting is quite acceptable. Dave >> Instead of trolling here why don't you go to Japan and work for one >> tenth [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > This is a GM newsgroup. News, whether you like the impact or not, > should be open to discussion. This is a good point. Seems that the coffee aroma has fianlly arrived. Just in, Toyota has broken ground for a massive plant just across the border into Canada. They are planning a major kill job against the American Auto Mfg's and it may be too late for any kind of reach around. Of course GM and Ford only know to do one thing in hard times and that downsize with massive layoff's. What a pitiful bunch... --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0662-1, 12/24/2006 >> Instead of trolling here why don't you go to Japan and work for one tenth > of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > messenger is a little > dumb. Depends on what the messenger is up too. This one, isn't doing this to 'enlighten' people. He is trying to piss people off. That is the definition of a Troll. > This is a GM newsgroup. News, whether you like the impact or not, should > be > open to discussion. That's the funny thing. This is Toyota news, yet it was posted to a GM newsgroup, and *not* to the Toyota newsgroup. Think about it. > >> Instead of trolling here why don't you go to Japan and work for one tenth > > of [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > That's the funny thing. This is Toyota news, yet it was posted to a GM > newsgroup, and *not* to the Toyota newsgroup. Think about it. The point of the post was that GM is about to be surpassed by Toyota due to GM stupidity. If that news about GM's demise isn't pertinent then nothing is. GM news about GM problems. GM newsgroup. >> >> Instead of trolling here why don't you go to Japan and work for one >> >> tenth [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > due to GM stupidity. If that news about GM's demise isn't pertinent > then nothing is. GM news about GM problems. GM newsgroup. So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken over by "Meduim", then I should go to the "Survivor" newsgroup and post that? Wrong. If you don't like GM, then don't let the door hit your a.s on the way out. "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:XtednY0- > So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken over > by "Meduim", then I should go to the "Survivor" newsgroup and post that? > Wrong. If you don't like GM, then don't let the door hit your a.s on the way > out. You are a better man that that, 80 Knight... If you dont like the way GM is treating you, you use every avenue to tell them what is wrong... And I have done this, including contacting GM corporate. In my personal life, if I dont like what one of my sons is doing, I tell him ...straight out. I cant make him change, but I can use every avenue to get him to listen. Confrontation does not have to be evil or violent...It is a normal process in redirecting efforts gone wrong. GM has increased the warranty terms.. That is a positive step, although it doesnt help me with the expenses I have already shouldered for shitteaux quality and piss poor support. I am open to people who admit that they need to improve. What I cant stomach is a company, or its people, who try to hide their mistakes. Get some backbone, GM, belly up to the problem, and become a supplier of products that people will be satisfied to buy. Regardless or Mi Kunts rantings, even though GM still sells a lot of iron, a lot of consumers are NOT happy. > "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:XtednY0- >> So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > them what is wrong... And I have done this, including contacting GM > corporate. That's the thing though. Do you honestly think anyone high-up in GM reads a newsgroup? > In my personal life, if I dont like what one of my sons is doing, I tell > him > ...straight out. I cant make him change, but I can use every avenue to get > him to > listen. That is true. However, would yelling at your wife about your son's behavior help your son at all? Not really. You need to go to the source. This newsgroup is not watched by GM. > Confrontation does not have to be evil or violent...It is a normal process > in redirecting efforts gone wrong. Agreed, but there is a difference between a friendly argument and people who's only purpose in posting here is to annoy GM owners. > GM has increased the warranty terms.. That is a positive step, although it > doesnt help me with the expenses I have already shouldered for shitteaux > quality > and piss poor support. And you have a right to be pissed, and I can respect that. However, like I said above, GM doesn't read this newsgroup, so how is bashing the company helping? > I am open to people who admit that they need to improve. What I cant > stomach is a company, or its people, who try to hide their mistakes. Get > some > backbone, GM, belly up to the problem, and become a supplier of products > that people will > be satisfied to buy. I have family members who work at GM dealership's, and they will be the first to admit that sometimes GM makes mistakes. So does Toyota, Honda and Hyundai. This group used to be a nice place to come for help with a GM car, or to discuss GM cars. Now, it's turning into a GM bashing group, and I personally don't think that is right. If you don't like GM, that is your opinion, and you have a right to have it, but bashing the company isn't going to help. > Regardless or Mi Kunts rantings, even though GM still sells a lot of iron, > a > lot of consumers are NOT happy. Mike is a moron. I think that's safe to say. As for people not being happy, from what I have heard of people on this group, no, some aren't. However, there are also a lot of people who are. I for one have owned 9 GM vehicles. All over 6 years old (the oldest was 18 years old), and all with over 200,000 KM's (except for the 18 year old car. It only had 86,404), and I loved each and every one. I had a problem here and there, but usually regular maintenance. >> "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:XtednY0- >>> So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > loved each and every one. I had a problem here and there, but usually > regular maintenance. If GM executives don't keep tabs on this newsgroup (and other customer outlets), they're much bigger fools than even I thought. >>> "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:XtednY0- >>>> So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > If GM executives don't keep tabs on this newsgroup (and other customer > outlets), they're much bigger fools than even I thought. Give me a break. GM doesn't keep tabs on newsgroups. Neither does Toyota, or any of the rest of them. Why would they? "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Give me a break. GM doesn't keep tabs on newsgroups. Neither does Toyota, > or any of the rest of them. Why would they? Why wouldn't they ? They can gain a lot of knowledge about what people think about GM, what GM cars do and don' t do and what their customers feel about the cars. I'd say it is a very important resource if they are really concerned about fixing the company. I also participate in a woodworking newsgroup. I do know that at least four manufacturers and another two or three distributors of woodworking products and machines monitor the group. They find it a very valuable source of information. They are also, coincidently, profitable companies with a high satisfaction rating from their customers. GM could learn from them. If GM management does not take a peek here, they truly are idiots that do not care about their customers. If I started a newsgroup called 80 Knight, would you read it? > "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > If I started a newsgroup called 80 Knight, would you read it? They probably do have people monitoring the NG as well as any enthusiast sites that may exist, but they probably do not participate for liability reasons (i.e. if their rep offered technical advice while just trying to be helpful GM could be on the hook for damages incurred if the OP hurt himself attempting to follow the well-intentioned advice.) I've heard of mfgrs. monitoring NG's, fora, and even showing up at dragstrips for more nefarious purposes, like cancelling the warranties of people who raced their new vehicles, most notably one Japanese mfgr. with a performance image yet a reputation for high warranty claims and fairly terrible reliability/durability (bet you can't guess which one I'm talking about) nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > Why wouldn't they ? They can gain a lot of knowledge about what people > think about GM, what GM cars do and don' t do and what their customers feel > about the cars. I'd say it is a very important resource if they are really > concerned about fixing the company. Well - that is the standard line when people try to suggest that executives should monitor usenet. But - what that fails to acknowledge is that... 1) Those executives already know what is being said in groups like this. There's nothing new and revealing in the postings and diatribes of usenet. 2) Good, bad, or otherwise, they aren't going to change things simply because of the opinions found in a newsgroup. In many cases things are just too complex for that kind of change, and in way too many cases the problems came into being because of a management mindset that just didn't care. How is a newsgroup going to change that? It's not. That change has to come from the heart of the company. 3) There is more baseless bitching and unfounded misinformation floating around the electron pool of usenet than there is valuable information. There are a lot better sources of good information and feedback. > I also participate in a woodworking newsgroup. I do know that at least four > manufacturers and another two or three distributors of woodworking products > and machines monitor the group. They find it a very valuable source of > information. They are also, coincidently, profitable companies with a high > satisfaction rating from their customers. GM could learn from them. Yeah, but the only ones you really see involved are the smaller ones. Those companies have a vested intererst in the wreck because the revenue stream from the participants is significant to them. It's more of a specialty area. Robin cares because there's probably 20 folks there who will buy from him no matter what he sells because it's a religious thing. For the bigger manufacturers and distributors, I doubt there is really as much monitoring and interest as might appear - other than if an employee happens to hang out at the wreck. > If GM management does not take a peek here, they truly are idiots that do > not care about their customers. Like I said - what would they find out here that they don't already know? The bigger issue now is to get rid of the management that believes it can force its way on the consumer like AT&T used to and still get away with it. It's time for updated management thinking at the American manufacturers. It's time for a real appreciation for value and the business returns from satisfied customers. Don't need no usenet newsgroup for that. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > Like I said - what would they find out here that they don't already know? > > -Mike- Well, Mike, if they really already know about the quality issues, the loss of sales and profitability, and the dissatisfaction that is growing in their customer base, and sit on their a.ses and do not address it, then they should be fired. The company is doomed with this sort of management. > > Like I said - what would they find out here that they don't already know? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > address it, then they should be fired. The company is doomed with this sort > of management. I whole heartedly agree. I honestly believe the management does know all of these things - how could they not? They'd have to be living in a vacuum and flat out ignoring every bit of press and every industry pundit out there not to realize what the complaints are. Not to mention that such issues as the intake gasket debacle could never have escaped their awareness. I believe that whole thing was a management decision. After all, people would never quit buying GM products, right? What I am most interested in seeing is whether they clean house and get rid of the good old boys, and remake the company as a competitive venture. To do so is not rocket science once you get rid of all the old ways and the old guys. Companies do it every day. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> Give me a break. GM doesn't keep tabs on newsgroups. Neither does Toyota, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > feel about the cars. I'd say it is a very important resource if they are > really concerned about fixing the company. I respectfully disagree. There are probably not even 100 regular posters to this group. That isn't very many people to get info from. This isn't the Neilson TV ratings system. :-P > I also participate in a woodworking newsgroup. I do know that at least > four manufacturers and another two or three distributors of woodworking > products and machines monitor the group. They find it a very valuable > source of information. They are also, coincidently, profitable companies > with a high satisfaction rating from their customers. GM could learn from > them. We are talking about the number 1 car manufacture in the world. That would be like Wal Mart watching there newsgroup. I just can't see them paying anyone, or even letting anyone watch them. Too much at stake. > If GM management does not take a peek here, they truly are idiots that do > not care about their customers. Once again, I disagree. There are many other places to get information from. Anyone who has been using newsgroups for awhile will tell you there is (at times) more B.S. going around then there is truth. > If I started a newsgroup called 80 Knight, would you read it? No offence, but that is a huge difference. I am not a huge company. >> "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> Give me a break. GM doesn't keep tabs on newsgroups. Neither does [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > No offence, but that is a huge difference. I am not a huge company. Well I for one was not attempting to bash GM in any way. It does burn my butt to see foreigners taking over this Country and doing it because we let them. Take a visit to a GM dealer and look how the sales people are busting tail to sell their product. Then stop by the local Toyota dealer and just watch how they are selling autos with no effort at all. In fact you have to wait in line to even talk about a deal. If GM engineers don't get off their obese rumps and design better quality autos we'll all be forced to buy foreign in the very near future. I personally would like to see GM come forth and take the lead in sales but that is not going to happen if they just continue business as usual. The writing is on the wall. Finally, yes those same engineers I just called obese are reading this, you can bank on it. One of the more prominent rules of success is to know where you stand at all times. They read it because they know their competition reads it. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0663-0, 12/27/2006 >>> "80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> Give me a break. GM doesn't keep tabs on newsgroups. Neither does [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > you stand at all times. They read it because they know their competition > reads it. Your post is an excellent example of why GM doesn't read newsgroups. They already know that they are in trouble. They don't need you to tell them. Perhaps you think your reference to "obese" engineers will be helpful to them. What they want, IMO, is *verifiable* information, so maybe you could tell us all how many of their engineers are obese. Or were you just talking out your "obese" a.s? This group is increasingly populated by pot stirrers and people with anti GM sentiments, whether deserved or not and NOTHING they say is verifiable. What possible value is any of it to GM. A problem without documentation, is not a problem. They have much better sources, I'm sure. Those who think that the execs and engineers at GM have nothing better to do than sit around reading NG's really need to get a grip. Dave "Thagor" <thagor@email.coma> wrote in message > If GM engineers don't get off their obese rumps and design better quality > autos we'll all be forced to buy foreign in the very near future. I > personally would like to see GM come forth and take the lead in sales but > that is not going to happen if they just continue business as usual. The > writing is on the wall. The engineers are very capable of designing a better car. It is the budgets that get in the way. 50¢ here and a $1 there certainly add up when you build millions of cars. Add $100 to the cost of a car and you'd have much better reliability in some areas. The problem, IMO, is that the US automakers figure the cure for problems is just to buy another car. That is what GM told me to do when I had a simple seat problem. > "Thagor" <thagor@email.coma> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > automakers figure the cure for problems is just to buy another car. That is > what GM told me to do when I had a simple seat problem. Heh, that reminds me of an experience I had at a (notoriously poor) Dodge dealership in Pittsburgh years ago. I needed an ignition switch for my '67 Dart, which was old enough even then that it wasn't in the computerized system. The parts counter guy was rolling his eyes and audibly sighing at having to actually FLIP PAGES to order my $12 part. Finally he just busted out "why don't you just buy a new car?" I couldn't help but laugh. First of all, if I could have afforded a new car, would I have been driving an old Dart with so many dents and different color body panels? College student and new car do not generally go together. Secondly if I had bought a new car in 1996, it probably wouldn't have been a Dodge... anyway, I eventually got my part and never went back to the dealership. Lesson learned. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message news:qWNkh.7703 > The engineers are very capable of designing a better car. It is the budgets > that get in the way. Ed, with all due respect to you, if budgets were the problem, WHY did GM continue to use the troublesome plastic plenums on the 3800 Series II for so many years? Introducing an upgraded manifold or plenum would have cost them nothing. They transfer costs to the OEM supplier. <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message > Ed, with all due respect to you, if budgets were the problem, WHY did GM > continue to use the troublesome plastic plenums on the 3800 Series II for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Introducing an upgraded manifold or plenum would have cost them nothing. > They transfer costs to the OEM supplier. It took some period of time to find that there was indeed a flaw. Once found, I agree that something should have been done, but the cost would have to be borne by GM. After all, if GM designers specified and approved the design and material, they have the responsibility, not the manufacturer. The OEM was only making what GM asked them to do. Today you decide to have bacon and eggs for breakfast and your local diner cook makes it for you. Great, glad you enjoyed it. Tomorrow, you decide that eggs and peanut butter would be good so you ask the cook to make it for you. You determine it sucks and won't finish it. Should you still pay? Sure he made what you asked for. Same as with plastic plenums. The real question is why did it take so long to correct a known problem once it became known? Was it the fault of poor continuing engineering or lack of budget for an engineering review? If the OEM was using the wrong material, the parts were out of spec, then the OEM would be responsible for correcting the problem. Until we know who specified what, the question is not properly answerable. > <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > it became known? Was it the fault of poor continuing engineering or lack > of budget for an engineering review? Because they buy in suck large quantity they had to finish off the stock of bad parts before ordering the new ones. The cost of the part is measureable to an accountant where the cost of damaged brand identity is not. "Eugene" <no@spam.com> wrote in message > Because they buy in suck large quantity they had to finish off the stock of > bad parts before ordering the new ones. The cost of the part is > measureable to an accountant where the cost of damaged brand identity is > not. This answer is pretty credible...They may not take delivery in enormous quantities, but I suspect they commit to long term contracts for them...To make a change in a contract is probably not palatable to GM accountants. And, as long as there is brand loyalty, the clients could just pay the dealerships the better part of a thousand bucks to replace the plenums which were out of warranty. > Because they buy in suck large quantity they had to finish off the stock of > bad parts before ordering the new ones. The cost of the part is > measureable to an accountant where the cost of damaged brand identity is > not. That logic only goes so far. The intake gasket problems ran for 15 years. No company - not even GM stocks inventory for a 15 year run up front. This was nothing more than neglect of a design problem foisted on the consuming public. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > If GM executives don't keep tabs on this newsgroup (and other customer > outlets), they're much bigger fools than even I thought. Anyone who thinks that executives of any company keep tabs on usenet newsgroups is a bigger fool than what they are calling those executives. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> If GM executives don't keep tabs on this newsgroup (and other customer >> outlets), they're much bigger fools than even I thought. > > Anyone who thinks that executives of any company keep tabs on usenet > newsgroups is a bigger fool than what they are calling those executives. And the results show it, I'd say. > Anyone who thinks that executives of any company keep tabs on usenet > newsgroups is a bigger fool than what they are calling those executives. It isnt the job of executives to personally keep tabs on public opinion. GM and other companies hire people within the corporation and external providers to provide this sort of information. When Consumer Reports rags on GM products, whether justified or not, it counteracts millions in advertising and marketing. When you ignore your customers, you are headed for a fall. In the company I work for (actually worked for...I resigned last Thursday), you can bet they know what the client is saying about our products and processes. We are dependent upon a much smaller client base than GM, but they are enormous spenders. We usually garner higher than average prices because we are seen as being the absolute best suppliers to the market and are presently the largest company of our kind in the world.. > It isnt the job of executives to personally keep tabs on public opinion. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > of our > kind in the world.. Again, I agree Dave, but my point was that executives do not rely on usenet as the forum for that input. I bet your company didn't either. As you stated, (regardless of our own opinions...) Consumer Reports and other critical assessment vehicles make far more reliable forums. Dealer feedback is another very valuable forum for the manufacturers. There's no shortage of input and I'm quite certain the manufacturers are well aware of what is being said about them. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> If you dont like the way GM is treating you, you use every avenue to tell >> them what is wrong... And I have done this, including contacting GM >> corporate. Unfortunately, the bigger a company gets, the less they want to hear from their customers. They hire marketing research people instead. It's too bad ! You can find the smallest "Ma&Pa" retailer on the internet, send them an eMail, ask a question about their product, and you'll get a prompt reply. Try doing that with any of the US auto makers...... There IS a BUICK website..... but, try sending them a message. <rj> > So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken over > by "Meduim", then I should go to the "Survivor" newsgroup and post that? > Wrong. If you don't like GM, then don't let the door hit your a.s on the way > out. And that attitude, my friends, speaks volumes as to why GM is where they are. Eventually there is no one left to tell that to...except the person with the attitude standing all alone with nothing left to do but turn the lights out (assuming the electricity is still on). Geesh! "80 Knight" must work for GM Customer Service (based on my personal experience dealing with the Chevrolet customer service people, the MO sounds quite familiar!) >> So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken >> over by "Meduim", then I should go to the "Survivor" newsgroup and post [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > must work for GM Customer Service (based on my personal experience dealing > with the Chevrolet customer service people, the MO sounds quite familiar!) Well, since you had a bad experience with Chevy, everyone else must as well. Note the sarcasm in that line. If you don't like GM, that is fine with me, but the question is, why are you still here? Why be in a group where discussion surrounds something you dislike? It makes no sense, other then to piss off the group's population. >>> So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken >>> over by "Meduim", then I should go to the "Survivor" newsgroup and post [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > still here? Why be in a group where discussion surrounds something you > dislike? It makes no sense, other then to piss off the group's population. Dislike? Heck, I love my kids and trust me, they've gotten a LOT worst than this! ;-) > > So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken over > > by "Meduim", then I should go to the "Survivor" newsgroup and post that? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And that attitude, my friends, speaks volumes as to why GM is where they > are. Actually, 80Knight's attitude has nothing to do with why GM is where they are. He's not hiding from the truth about GM, he's only saying that if you get so much joy out of Toyota news and Honda news, etc. then take it to those newsgroups. It does not affect anything to post that crap here. > Eventually there is no one left to tell that to...except the > person with the attitude standing all alone with nothing left to do but > turn the lights out (assuming the electricity is still on). So - posting a bunch of GM bashing for no other reason than to do exactly that, serves some more noble purpose? > Geesh! "80 > Knight" must work for GM Customer Service (based on my personal > experience dealing with the Chevrolet customer service people, the MO > sounds quite familiar!) There - it didn't take long to turn this into a personal attack simply because a fellow posted his own opinion which happened to be contrary to yours. 80Knight is right - fellows like you only post your stuff to stir up trouble. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>> So, if I don't like the TV show "Survivor" and it is about to be taken > over [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Actually, 80Knight's attitude has nothing to do with why GM is where they > are. That is true...80 Knights attitude has nothing to do with GM's situation. Read my post though, the context was the attitude, not the person providing the example of the attitude. The reality is if a company has the attitude of telling their customers "if you don't like it leave", most will accommodate the request and leave. Few of us stay being treated that way...but some of us are hanging on for dear life! > He's not hiding from the truth about GM, he's only saying that if you > get so much joy out of Toyota news and Honda news, etc. then take it to > those newsgroups. It does not affect anything to post that crap here. For the record, I've never owned a vehicle made by any company other than GM, Ford or Chrysler. I've never directly owned stock in any other car company other than GM. I come from several generations of nearly exclusive GM owners on both sides of the family. There certainly is no joy to be found in the current reality. >> Eventually there is no one left to tell that to...except the >> person with the attitude standing all alone with nothing left to do but >> turn the lights out (assuming the electricity is still on). > > So - posting a bunch of GM bashing for no other reason than to do exactly > that, serves some more noble purpose? Do you disagree that this would be the result if the attitude to the customer is "like it or leave it"? >> Geesh! "80 >> Knight" must work for GM Customer Service (based on my personal [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > yours. 80Knight is right - fellows like you only post your stuff to stir up > trouble. No, just an observation of the attitude that it mirrored a real experience dealing with GM customer service in the past. Nothing personal. Bottom line...positive change almost never happens unless things get stirred up. It's always been that way and it always well be. Companies I know do indeed keep a pulse on what the public is saying...from many sources, including newsgroups. For what it's worth, I believe GM makes some of the best vehicles around. The charge that their product is inferior just ain't so in my book. The problem, from my anecdotal experience, is not with the product but it is how the owner is treated in resolving issues and such after the sale (compared with competitors I've also dealt with). |
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