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Car Forum / GMC Cars / March 2007

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Building the Chevy Camaro has been Axed!

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Smartie Panse - 25 Mar 2007 16:23 GMT
Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
What the GM Future looks like

By Todd Lassa
Photography by the Manufacturer
General Motors's plans for a rear-drive Buick Velite sedan, convertible, or
anything else are officially dead. The murder also affects any rear-drive
Chevy coupe, Camaro, Chevelle, or otherwise. While development of a new Zeta
platform was scaled back months ago, the decision to pull the plug on these
new cars is much more recent. The only sub-Cadillac/ Corvette rear-drive
program going forth (beside Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky) is the next-gen
GTO, expected for the 2008 model year.

GM sources say the Holden's Zeta rear-drive platforms aren't considered
refined enough for rear-drive Buicks and Chevys to compete with the
Mercedes-based Chrysler and Dodge LX models or any other modern competitor.
Cadillac's Sigma platform, meanwhile, is too expensive for GM's mainstream
brands.

Meanwhile, GM is yet again reorganizing its divisions. Cadillac, Hummer, and
Saab continue as the company's premium troika (it considers Saab
near-luxury). Even though Hummer H2 sales plunged after its first year, with
the new H3 and more product on the way, the division is designed to thrive
with relatively low volume. Saturn continues as a warm-and-fuzzy Toyota,
Honda/Acura competitor as it moves upmarket.

GM plans to morph as many as possible of its individual Pontiac, Buick, and
GMC dealers into three-brand combos. A Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealer doesn't have
to be full-line, like Chevrolet, says marketing chief Mark LaNeve. The plan
is to shape GM into eight "tightly focused" brands. "If those brands aren't
focused, you don't need them," LaNeve adds.

But the reality looks set to fall short of the rhetoric. GMC, for example,
is relying on its expanding Denali line, which is really just a trim level,
to distinguish itself from Chevy trucks. And while Pontiac builds a largely
front-drive performance lineup and Buick builds a front-drive (except for
the Rainier) "quiet luxury" lineup, there's still loads of overlap. Yes, a
3.5-liter high-feature Buick LaCrosse is much different from a small-block
V-8 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP. But the high-volume sub-$25,000 LaCrosses and
Grand Prixs are distinguished by little more than sheetmetal and interior
design.

All of which leads to the question: If Chrysler Group can manage to build
affordable, gotta-have rear-drive Chrysler 300s, Dodge Magnums, and Chargers
with optional V-8s, why can't the world's largest automaker compete?
From: "« Paul »" - 25 Mar 2007 17:11 GMT
> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
> What the GM Future looks like

GM likes 4 door vehicles and chrome exhaust tips.
There are already plans for a 4dr GTO.
I expect a 4 dr Vette someday.
But they will all have chrome exhaust tips.
Smartie Panse - 25 Mar 2007 17:38 GMT
>> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I expect a 4 dr Vette someday.
> But they will all have chrome exhaust tips.

I think I have purchased my first and last GM car. I like my Pontiac, looks
nice, dependable, but its now 10 years old and GM no longer builds anything
I want. Why should I pay for 4 doors when I only want 2?
Willy - 26 Mar 2007 16:30 GMT
>>> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>>> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> looks nice, dependable, but its now 10 years old and GM no longer builds
> anything I want. Why should I pay for 4 doors when I only want 2?

Then how about the Monte Carlo.  It's available ONLY as a 2-door.

Willy
<"« Paul »"> - 27 Mar 2007 01:28 GMT
> >>> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
> >>> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Willy

Give it a couple of years.  Assuming it will still be around.
Smartie Panse - 27 Mar 2007 05:45 GMT
>> >>> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>> >>> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Give it a couple of years.  Assuming it will still be around.

2007 is the last year for the Monte Carlo.
Willy - 28 Mar 2007 00:59 GMT
>>> >>> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>>> >>> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> 2007 is the last year for the Monte Carlo.

That's interesting.  I guess the boys at NASCAR will be racing in an Impala
next year.

Willy
<"« Paul »"> - 28 Mar 2007 01:17 GMT
> >>> >>> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
> >>> >>> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Willy

There was an article in Popular Mechanics (I think) that said that all
NACARs will be the same except for the engines.
Joe - 29 Mar 2007 01:44 GMT
>> That's interesting.  I guess the boys at NASCAR will be racing in an
>> Impala
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> There was an article in Popular Mechanics (I think) that said that all
> NACARs will be the same except for the engines.

Very true.  With the COT, it's no longer a problem.  They can call it
Silverado if they want to.
Steve W. - 28 Mar 2007 04:51 GMT
>>>>>>> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>>>>>>> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Willy

 Nope the NASCAR spec "car of tomorrow" is next years car They will be
identical bodies with the auto manufacturers engines and decals. No
manufacturers parts used. See

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/03/25/nascar.bristol.ap/index.html
http://nascar.about.com/od/cars/f/caroftomorrow.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261040,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_of_Tomorrow
http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=258149

Signature

Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Mike Marlow - 28 Mar 2007 12:50 GMT
> That's interesting.  I guess the boys at NASCAR will be racing in an Impala
> next year.

This year - if you can call a decal a car...

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

John Horner - 28 Mar 2007 02:41 GMT
>>> Willy
>> Give it a couple of years.  Assuming it will still be around.
>
> 2007 is the last year for the Monte Carlo.

Not surprising.  I don't think it ever sold worth a hoot and the current
generation didn't deserve to.

John
80 Knight - 28 Mar 2007 04:44 GMT
>>> >>> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>>> >>> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> 2007 is the last year for the Monte Carlo.

It's just temporary. GM has announced that it will bring the Monte back with
it's Zeta brand rear-wheel drive platform.
80 Knight - 25 Mar 2007 18:16 GMT
We are supposed to be building the Camaro here in Oshawa, Canada, and I
haven't heard anything that says otherwise.

> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> Chargers with optional V-8s, why can't the world's largest automaker
> compete?
Smartie Panse - 25 Mar 2007 22:07 GMT
> We are supposed to be building the Camaro here in Oshawa, Canada, and I
> haven't heard anything that says otherwise.
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>> Chargers with optional V-8s, why can't the world's largest automaker
>> compete?

MotorTrends article says otherwise....I personally don't know except from
what I read.
80 Knight - 25 Mar 2007 22:54 GMT
>> We are supposed to be building the Camaro here in Oshawa, Canada, and I
>> haven't heard anything that says otherwise.
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> MotorTrends article says otherwise....I personally don't know except from
> what I read.

When I hear it myself, then I will believe it. As far as I know, the Camaro
has been 100% approved for Oshawa. It also seems odd that GM would decide
not to build so many vehicles. Very odd.
David Starr - 25 Mar 2007 22:19 GMT
>Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>anything else are officially dead. The murder also affects any rear-drive
>Chevy coupe, Camaro, Chevelle, or otherwise.

Guess I'll keep my Ford.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Mike Marlow - 25 Mar 2007 23:44 GMT
> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
> What the GM Future looks like
>
> By Todd Lassa

> But the reality looks set to fall short of the rhetoric. GMC, for example,
> is relying on its expanding Denali line, which is really just a trim level,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Grand Prixs are distinguished by little more than sheetmetal and interior
> design.

Ok - this is what really gets me.  The author makes the point that the
LaCrosse and the Grand Prix are only differntiated by cosmetics and the
likes - as if that's a problem.  What's wrong with a platform design that is
tweaked for target markets?  Personally, I think that is a strength in
design.  This gets talked about a lot, but the argument has never held water
in my eyes.  To top it off the critics of GM talk a lot about the benefit of
Honda and Toyota platform designs.  So what is it?  Is the platform approach
good to these people, or is it bad?  Or more likely... is it just that
anything GM does is fodder for these people who have nothing better to do?

> All of which leads to the question: If Chrysler Group can manage to build
> affordable, gotta-have rear-drive Chrysler 300s, Dodge Magnums, and Chargers
> with optional V-8s, why can't the world's largest automaker compete?

Gotta-haves?  That sure isn't reflected in Chrysler's sales performance.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Nate Nagel - 25 Mar 2007 23:50 GMT
> Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
> What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> affordable, gotta-have rear-drive Chrysler 300s, Dodge Magnums, and Chargers
> with optional V-8s, why can't the world's largest automaker compete?

WHAT THE HELL?????  The Zeta platform "isn't refined enough" so what do
they have up their sleeve?

I sincerely hope that this does not mean that the Impala is not going to
go RWD; I was actually looking forward to my next company car for once.

nate

Signature

replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Alex - 26 Mar 2007 00:35 GMT
> > Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
> > What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

What the hell does anybody need a V8 for, heck GM makes some of the
best V6's around, just get
a superchared V6  and start saving gas!!!!! This is why Gas is going
up ever day for Everybody wants
a V8 and there is no need for one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nate Nagel - 26 Mar 2007 00:42 GMT
>>>Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>>>What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> up ever day for Everybody wants
> a V8 and there is no need for one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who said anything about a V8, I just want an inexpensive, RWD basic car.
 Is that too much to ask?  I'd be perfectly happy with a *STRAIGHT*
six, which I know GM can make (Trailblazer) as opposed to the POS 3.4
that is in my Impala.  Give me a smooth shifting 5-speed and I'll be
happy as a pig in excrement.  But if you want that combo these days,
looks like you have to go with BMW...

nate

Signature

replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Joe - 26 Mar 2007 05:26 GMT
> nate

Whoever posted this was just pulling your leg.  It's not a real article.
GlassVial - 26 Mar 2007 15:06 GMT
>Whoever posted this was just pulling your leg.  It's not a real article.

I certainly hope so, otherwise it would be a major misstep by GM after
the raves they got about the Camaro at the auto shows.

-GV
Smartie Panse - 27 Mar 2007 03:46 GMT
>> nate
>>
> Whoever posted this was just pulling your leg.  It's not a real article.

I assure sir..Smartie Panse is no liar. Though Motor Trend might be. The
article came from M/Ts website yesterday. Here is the  link below
http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/112_0508_2008_future_gm_models
John Horner - 28 Mar 2007 02:40 GMT
>>> nate
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> article came from M/Ts website yesterday. Here is the  link below
> http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/112_0508_2008_future_gm_models 

I stand corrected.  Odd that M/T didn't have it available when this
thread started.
Joe - 29 Mar 2007 01:56 GMT
>>>> nate
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I stand corrected.  Odd that M/T didn't have it available when this thread
> started.

Well, I'm sorry - I was wrong too. However, it's clearly still not news.  It
hasn't proliferated anywhere on the internet as far as I can tell, and it
seems very unlike everything else in the news.  For instance, there's really
not any indication that there is a 2008 GTO coming.  They'd have to start
building it in about 4 months. Where is it? There's apparently no such
thing.  Years ago, there was a 2008 GTO in everybody's head.  Today, the G8
is clearly going forward, so how is Holden's platform not refined enough for
a Chevrolet? It's good enough for the most expensive Pontiac?  The article
doesn't really make any sense TODAY.  I can't find a date on it - My guess
is it's a two-year-old article.

I guess we'll see.
Joe - 29 Mar 2007 02:07 GMT
>>>>> nate
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> I guess we'll see.

Okay - here we go: something with a date, but Bob Lutz himself.

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2005/03/zeta_not_the_en.html

That Motor Trend article was from when the Zeta platform was cancelled in
2005.  Everybody remember that?  I don't know much about the motor trend
website, so I won't comment about the age of anything else on that page.  I
think they've abandoned that part of their site, but you be the judge.
John Horner - 28 Mar 2007 02:39 GMT
>> nate
>>
> Whoever posted this was just pulling your leg.  It's not a real article.

Yep, I went looking for the original and couldn't find it.
Les Benn - 26 Mar 2007 16:42 GMT
Well my 98 corvette with a V8 got 26 mpg highway and 22 city. My V6 Pontiac
gets the same mileage. Who doesn't want a V8?
>> > Future: '08 Pontiac GTO Spared, But That's All
>> > What the GM Future looks like
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
> up ever day for Everybody wants
> a V8 and there is no need for one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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