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Car Forum / GMC Cars / September 2007

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What was GM'S intake seal problem?

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James Goforth - 25 Sep 2007 17:58 GMT
I have seen many references in this discussion room to GM's intake
manifold or gasket sealing failure ohe 60 degree engines.

 My 81 year old mother has a '93 Gran Prix with a 3.1,  which I've
posted about in here before.   As you might guess, at her age she isn't
inclined to trade her car in favour of a newer model.  She just wants to
keep what she's used to from here on out.

 The car has performed remarkaly well in terms of never needing any
repairs, for about 11 years.  However, it recently needed $1400 put into
the transmission, and about a year ago another $700 for some new
injectors and an ignition module, IIRC.

 The car has about 130K miles and so I can't kick too much about the
transmission needing overhauled (a drum inside it developed a problem,
IIRC, and they just did a complete rebuild).

 But I generally wouldn't expect a similar catatrophic failure with the
engine, since it's common for most of them last to 200,000 miles and
beyond.  Hence, I would normally consider keeping this car since the
transmission has been redone and meanwhile the engine should still have
a lot of life in it -- EXCEPT for the fact that this is an engine design
with some kind of inherent sealing problem.
 
 Also, I have noticed a vague smell of anti-freeze several times when I
enter her garage after she's een driving it, but see nothing visibly
wrong under the hood (so far).

1.  What specifically is the sealing problem?

2.  What engines, years?

3.  Are there preventative repairs to be made before hand?

4.  What is the typical result of the failure resulting from the
manifold sealing design flaw?

5.  Any tell-tale signs that's about to happen?
TIA
Doug  Adams - 26 Sep 2007 00:38 GMT
If you smell anti-freeze after the car is driven, you better have it checked
for an intake, of possibly head gasket leak. If you leave it undone, you
will probably be replacing the engine!

>  I have seen many references in this discussion room to GM's intake
> manifold or gasket sealing failure ohe 60 degree engines.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> 5.  Any tell-tale signs that's about to happen?
> TIA
« Paul » - 26 Sep 2007 05:27 GMT
>   I have seen many references in this discussion room to GM's intake
> manifold or gasket sealing failure ohe 60 degree engines.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> 1.  What specifically is the sealing problem?
Poor engineering design.   Due to expansion and contraction of the metal
parts
the gaskets squirm and deteriorate.

> 2.  What engines, years?
All GM 60 degree engines.  They first came out around 1988?

> 3.  Are there preventative repairs to be made before hand?
You could replace the intake gaskets every two years.  The new
gaskets are better than the old ones.

> 4.  What is the typical result of the failure resulting from the
> manifold sealing design flaw?
Water in the oil.  Destroys cam and crank and bearings.

> 5.  Any tell-tale signs that's about to happen?
Water in oil - emulsion.  Disappearing coolant.
Mike Marlow - 26 Sep 2007 11:29 GMT
>> 1.  What specifically is the sealing problem?
> Poor engineering design.   Due to expansion and contraction of the metal
> parts
> the gaskets squirm and deteriorate.

Poor gasket design.  The current gaskets are better than earlier sets.

>> 2.  What engines, years?
> All GM 60 degree engines.  They first came out around 1988?
>
>> 3.  Are there preventative repairs to be made before hand?
> You could replace the intake gaskets every two years.  The new
> gaskets are better than the old ones.

Well... every two years is a bit off.  Even a high mileage driver does not
require them every two years.  For the OP, hel'll probably never put another
set in this car.

>> 4.  What is the typical result of the failure resulting from the
>> manifold sealing design flaw?
> Water in the oil.  Destroys cam and crank and bearings.
>
>> 5.  Any tell-tale signs that's about to happen?
> Water in oil - emulsion.  Disappearing coolant.

Often, no water in oil.  Always - weeping at both ends of the engine where
the intake mates.  Usage of coolant.  Smell of coolant.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Mike Y - 26 Sep 2007 12:28 GMT
> > 1.  What specifically is the sealing problem?
> Poor engineering design.   Due to expansion and contraction of the metal
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> You could replace the intake gaskets every two years.  The new
> gaskets are better than the old ones.

There is an aftermarket set that is much better than the GM.  One local
shop told me he as yet to see it fail, and it's not much more than just
replacing with another factory original.  He told me he had a couple
cars come back again when he was using the factory gasket.

> > 4.  What is the typical result of the failure resulting from the
> > manifold sealing design flaw?
> Water in the oil.  Destroys cam and crank and bearings.

It can be worse.  It can get into the intake manifold and hydrolock
the engine.  That can break/bend rods, bend the crank, and possibly
even damage the block.

> > 5.  Any tell-tale signs that's about to happen?
> Water in oil - emulsion.  Disappearing coolant.

On my Grand Prix, the symptom was EGR.  I pulled the thing and
found a gel goo under it.
 
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