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Car Forum / Honda Cars / August 2004electrical problem CRX, intermittent lights, won't crank
My 91 CRX HF won't crank, and the lights won't come on sometimes. It seems that the lights WILL come on after I have disconnected the battery. Then if I turn the ignition to ON, the dashboard lights up normally. If I then proceed to turn the ignition to the start position, the engine does not turn over and the dash is dark. After that, the lights won't come on, apparently until I disconnect the battery again. It first refused to turn over when I was in the process of starting it. It turned over maybe once, then stopped turning over and the dash went dark. I have checked some of the fuses, the main fuses and some others. Tried a known good battery from another car. Cleaned the battery posts and checked a few of the many ground connections. The engine is NOT seized. I tried jumping a hot wire to the starter solenoid, and it did not crank the engine. So I took the starter (a Mitsuba one) out and had it apart. Tested the solenoid separately and off the car it seems to thrust the pinion and make the connections to the starter motor terminals like it should. Could not find anything wrong electrically with the starter moter (but don't have an armature buzz tester.) I can't understand why the lights come on sometimes and why attempting to crank would make the lights off thereafter. My dad suggested it is a high-resistance connection somewhere, like the frame ground. Just disconnected and reconnected the battery yet again. Now the lights and wipers work again. Don't want to try to start again until I understand this. Maybe the starter is bad, drawing a lot of current and affecting something computer-like, eg the ICU. I'm with your dad on this one. If by lights you mean headlights, tail lights etc., then there is no ecu or other computer that has any control over these. They don't go through the ignition switch either, so it would not be the problem. I would check very carefully the connections to the battery. I have seen problems where the battery contacts stretch a little over the years, so even if you tighten the nut all the way, the contacts aren't tight on the battery poles (on one car I had to wrap a few turns of aluminum foil around the battery pole in order to get the contact to fit properly). If the terminal is too loose, it may work just fine for moderate loads (lights etc.) but once you try to crank the starter, you get sparks and oxidation and you loose the connection. First check both battery connections. See if you can twist loose the terminals from the battery poles, you should not be able to. Then check where the battery negative connects to the chassis. Also see if the terminals on the ground cable are firmly attached to the cable. > My 91 CRX HF won't crank, and the lights won't come on sometimes. It > seems that the lights WILL come on after I have disconnected the [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Maybe the starter is bad, drawing a lot of current and affecting > something computer-like, eg the ICU. >I would check very carefully the connections to the battery. I agree. It's most likely a battery cable. Check under the cable insulation near the connector. I've seen cables corroded down to a couple of strands of copper by battery acid at that point. Disconnect the ground end of the negative cable and put a star washer under it. Clean the lug down to bare copper with a file and scrape the metal it's bolted to to make sure there's no corrosion there. Is the braided bonding strap between engine and bodywork present, in good shape and well connected? Yep, you're all correct. The problem was as you say, the junction at the cables to the positive terminal. It was an aftermarket type, a metal plate with two bolts to a lead (pb) terminal. It was full of corrosion. I learned that even though it seemed like a tight connection when I pulled on the wires, it really wasn't tight at all. It loosened up quick once I started to unbolt it. It practically fell apart. Also I learned that my internal model of electrical connections is bad. I assumed that if it measured a few ohms or less, it was a good connection. As you say, that could be just one hair thin wire making contact. Enough to carry the current of say the lights, but when the starter draws current, it must quickly vaporize that one thin contact. Jiggle the wire and it establishes another hair thin contact and you have the same problem. I also assumed that rust and corrosion wasn't that good of an insulator. Apparently it is. Thanks to all. Pure-D geniuses. >Also I learned that my internal model of electrical connections is >bad. I assumed that if it measured a few ohms or less, it was a good >connection. In a 110 volt circuit where one amp is flowing, an extra 1 ohms resistance will cost you not much more than a volt. In a 12 volt starter cable where 100 amps are flowing (and lots of starters draw more) an extra ohm will cost you more voltage than you've got! Starter motors draw a lot of current and are enormously powerful for their size. They'd burn out in minutes if they had to run continuously. >As you say, that could be just one hair thin wire making >contact. Enough to carry the current of say the lights, but when the >starter draws current, it must quickly vaporize that one thin contact. > Jiggle the wire and it establishes another hair thin contact and you >have the same problem. I also assumed that rust and corrosion wasn't >that good of an insulator. Apparently it is. Oh yeah! |
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